The message behind this verse (Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva)
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Then the Devarajas from the four directions rose from their seats and, with palms joined, respectfully addressed the Buddha, saying, "O World Honored One, since Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha took such grand vows vast long kalpas ago, how is it that he has not yet completed his work of deliverance and that he is now, even again, taking extensive, immense vows?
It is our sole hope that you, O World Honored One, will explain this to us."
The Buddha responded to the four Devarajas, "Excellent, excellent! Now I am going to tell you and the present and future devas and human beings about the expedient things which Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha is doing on the paths of birth and death in Jambudvipa of the Saha World to render merciful and compassionate deliverance and liberation to all sinful and suffering beings."
The four Devarajas said, " Yes, indeed, O World Honored One, we will be delighted to listen."
The Buddha said to the four Devarajas, "From vast, long kalpas ago until the present time, Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha has been delivering and liberating sentient beings, but he has not yet completely fulfilled his vows.
Since he has mercy and pity on all sinful suffering beings in this world and sees that their entanglement will not be cut off for countless kalpas in the future, he again has taken further colossal vows to encourage all the Bodhisattvas to resort to hundreds of thousands of myriads of millions of expediencies in Jambudvipa of the Saha World in order to teach and convert them.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/ksitigarbha/chap4.html
The highlighted part tells us clearly that two main points:
1) Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is so compassionate that he again undertakes further great vows as of now, to ensure complete and thorough deliverance for all suffering beings while the world waits for the birth of Maitreya Buddha.
2) There are too many suffering beings that will not have their evil karmic entanglements cut off for good for countless kalpas in the future.
So what is the message behind this whole excerpt?
I don't know what it means to each and everyone of you, but it certainly means the following to me:
From point 2, we can infer that it is not as simple as telling these beings to contemplate on anatta or emptiness or even try to repent.
If it is so easy to tell beings to contemplate emptiness or to consistently practise repentence, I seriously don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva needs to go to such lengths to help us. I can see the urgency in his actions, I can feel his boundless love and patience if I look at the excerpt from such an angle.
In a way, I personally feel Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is indirectly saying that even with great wisdom and compassion, there are still many out there who have karmic affinity with him that will not easily repent or will not quickly understand and practise 'emptiness' to the extent of at least gaining 1st bhumi of sainthood (stream-returner or 须陀洹).
It is because of the truths conveyed in the above paragraphs, just these paragraphs alone, are enough to convince me to want to be with this great teacher and parent of all sentient beings for as long as possible. To be able to witness for myself his skilful means in delivering stubborn, wilful and evil beings. It is these paragraphs that I immediately grow to honour and revere the great compassion and wisdom of the Bodhisattva.
I hope fellow Buddhists will work together, to contribute in any way that will help Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva to fulfill all his Vows completely and as early as possible, so that he may finally attain Buddhahood and again help countless beings to the blissful shore of Nirvana.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Then the Devarajas from the four directions rose from their seats and, with palms joined, respectfully addressed the Buddha, saying, "O World Honored One, since Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha took such grand vows vast long kalpas ago, how is it that he has not yet completed his work of deliverance and that he is now, even again, taking extensive, immense vows?
It is our sole hope that you, O World Honored One, will explain this to us."
The Buddha responded to the four Devarajas, "Excellent, excellent! Now I am going to tell you and the present and future devas and human beings about the expedient things which Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha is doing on the paths of birth and death in Jambudvipa of the Saha World to render merciful and compassionate deliverance and liberation to all sinful and suffering beings."
The four Devarajas said, " Yes, indeed, O World Honored One, we will be delighted to listen."
The Buddha said to the four Devarajas, "From vast, long kalpas ago until the present time, Bodhisattva Ksitigarbha has been delivering and liberating sentient beings, but he has not yet completely fulfilled his vows.
Since he has mercy and pity on all sinful suffering beings in this world and sees that their entanglement will not be cut off for countless kalpas in the future, he again has taken further colossal vows to encourage all the Bodhisattvas to resort to hundreds of thousands of myriads of millions of expediencies in Jambudvipa of the Saha World in order to teach and convert them.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/clubs/buddhism/ksitigarbha/chap4.html
The highlighted part tells us clearly that two main points:
1) Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is so compassionate that he again undertakes further great vows as of now, to ensure complete and thorough deliverance for all suffering beings while the world waits for the birth of Maitreya Buddha.
2) There are too many suffering beings that will not have their evil karmic entanglements cut off for good for countless kalpas in the future.
So what is the message behind this whole excerpt?
I don't know what it means to each and everyone of you, but it certainly means the following to me:
From point 2, we can infer that it is not as simple as telling these beings to contemplate on anatta or emptiness or even try to repent.
If it is so easy to tell beings to contemplate emptiness or to consistently practise repentence, I seriously don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva needs to go to such lengths to help us. I can see the urgency in his actions, I can feel his boundless love and patience if I look at the excerpt from such an angle.
In a way, I personally feel Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is indirectly saying that even with great wisdom and compassion, there are still many out there who have karmic affinity with him that will not easily repent or will not quickly understand and practise 'emptiness' to the extent of at least gaining 1st bhumi of sainthood (stream-returner or 须陀洹).
It is because of the truths conveyed in the above paragraphs, just these paragraphs alone, are enough to convince me to want to be with this great teacher and parent of all sentient beings for as long as possible. To be able to witness for myself his skilful means in delivering stubborn, wilful and evil beings. It is these paragraphs that I immediately grow to honour and revere the great compassion and wisdom of the Bodhisattva.
I hope fellow Buddhists will work together, to contribute in any way that will help Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva to fulfill all his Vows completely and as early as possible, so that he may finally attain Buddhahood and again help countless beings to the blissful shore of Nirvana.
What Buddha meant here is that we all must help Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva fulfill his vows, by transforming the minds of sentient beings here on Earth.
Because if Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva saved a sentient being from hell but when he becomes human and create bad karma again, he will nevertheless end up in hell again in future lifetimes.
Hence as my Master said our relation with Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is to lead people to the righteous path so that they do not have to end up in hell, and to guide these people to the path of liberation.
Afterall, the only way one can save a sentient being and prevent him from ever falling into hell again is to end their cycle of samsara. The teachings of 'No-self' and 'emptiness' is itself the fundamental skillful means taught that can liberate sentient beings from their vexations and ignorance, so that they may be freed from birth and death, and hence hell will certainly be empty earlier.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
What Buddha meant here is that we all must help Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva fulfill his vows, by transforming the minds of sentient beings here on Earth.
Because if Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva saved a sentient being from hell but when he becomes human and create bad karma again, he will nevertheless end up in hell again in future lifetimes.
Hence as my Master said our relation with Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva is to lead people to the righteous path so that they do not have to end up in hell, and to guide these people to the path of liberation.
Afterall, the only way one can save a sentient being and prevent him from ever falling into hell again is to end their cycle of samsara. The teachings of 'No-self' and 'emptiness' is itself the fundamental skillful means taught that can liberate sentient beings from their vexations and ignorance, so that they may be freed from birth and death, and hence hell will certainly be empty earlier.
How can it be considered 'saved' if that sentient being commits bad karma and falls into hell again in future lifetimes?
Furthermore, don't Bodhisattvas like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva already have 宿命通，智慧眼 to know that this particular being will still fall into hell after after having delivered them to temporary havens like heaven or human realms?
If he knows, why still save? If he chooses to save, does that mean that being is 'destined' to be saved and later fall into hell?
The teachings of "No-self' and "emptiness" is the ultimate reality, the ultimate truth. But I personally don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva would preach these profound truths for those who still have deep and especially very negative karmic entanglements.
And furthermore if someone with great compassion and wisdom cannot deliver all beings for so many kalpas, surely it shows to some extent that mere unenlightened beings have less to offer in terms of helping him to fulfill his vows?
For me, at my level, what I can do to fulfill both my wish of helping the Bodhisattva to fulfil his vows and his own personal conviction, is to really promote his name, his great compassion and wisdom to all beings with or without yuan. After all, if this Bodhisattva only has yuan with 5.9 billion people out of the 6 billion world population, who is gonna to care for the 0.1 billion people then?
I choose to believe that the name, the virtues, the vows of the Bodhisattva have yuan with all the 6 billion in our saha world. That is much simpler to understand and accept for half-hearted, half-evil people like me. haha.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
How can it be considered 'saved' if that sentient being commits bad karma and falls into hell again in future lifetimes?
Furthermore, don't Bodhisattvas like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva already have 宿命通，智慧眼 to know that this particular being will still fall into hell after after having delivered them to temporary havens like heaven or human realms?
If he knows, why still save? If he chooses to save, does that mean that being is 'destined' to be saved and later fall into hell?
The teachings of "No-self' and "emptiness" is the ultimate reality, the ultimate truth. But I personally don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva would preach these profound truths for those who still have deep and especially very negative karmic entanglements.
And furthermore if someone with great compassion and wisdom cannot deliver all beings for so many kalpas, surely it shows to some extent that mere unenlightened beings have less to offer in terms of helping him to fulfill his vows?
For me, at my level, what I can do to fulfill both my wish of helping the Bodhisattva to fulfil his vows and his own personal conviction, is to really promote his name, his great compassion and wisdom to all beings with or without yuan. After all, if this Bodhisattva only has yuan with 5.9 billion people out of the 6 billion world population, who is gonna to care for the 0.1 billion people then?
I choose to believe that the name, the virtues, the vows of the Bodhisattva have yuan with all the 6 billion in our saha world. That is much simpler to understand and accept for half-hearted, half-evil people like me. haha.
Someone in the lower realms such as hell will never be able to cultivate the dharma anyway, and they will never become enlightened in the hell realms. So there is no point talking about no self or emptiness to them, they are suffering too much to want to understand these things or be able to cultivate.
The most anyone can do is I think to advise them to repent their deeds so that when they got out of hell realm, they will be able to walk the righteous path and the path towards enlightenment.
As for whether the being will fall back to hell again, it pretty much depends on whether the person cultivates after returning from the hell realm. There is no guarantee a person will not fall into hell unless he is enlightened. Which is also why Ksitigarbha calls for all other bodhisattvas to help him.
As you said the most we can do is promote Ksitigarbha teachings, as well as promote Buddhism in general, and invite others to join the path towards liberation, the path that asks people to 'avoid evil, do good, purify the mind'.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Someone in the lower realms such as hell will never be able to cultivate the dharma anyway, and they will never become enlightened in the hell realms. So there is no point talking about no self or emptiness to them, they are suffering too much to want to understand these things or be able to cultivate.
The most anyone can do is I think to advise them to repent their deeds so that when they got out of hell realm, they will be able to walk the righteous path and the path towards enlightenment.
As for whether the being will fall back to hell again, it pretty much depends on whether the person cultivates after returning from the hell realm. There is no guarantee a person will not fall into hell unless he is enlightened. Which is also why Ksitigarbha calls for all other bodhisattvas to help him.
As you said the most we can do is promote Ksitigarbha teachings, as well as promote Buddhism in general, and invite others to join the path towards liberation, the path that asks people to 'avoid evil, do good, purify the mind'.
Sometimes, or maybe most of time, I wish that I'm already a Bodhisattva like Ksitigarbha so that I can totally not worry about taking tons of time to totally eradicate my delusions and start helping people to achieve liberation in the most shortest time possible for them.
Yes, it is still pretty egoistic of me, I know....But it's a conflict inside me, between learning to be compassionate and non-attached and wanting to stay safe and happy for my own sake.
I shall now imagine I am Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva. That works to relieve the emotional tension in me. At least to quite some extent.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Someone in the lower realms such as hell will never be able to cultivate the dharma anyway, and they will never become enlightened in the hell realms. So there is no point talking about no self or emptiness to them, they are suffering too much to want to understand these things or be able to cultivate.
The most anyone can do is I think to advise them to repent their deeds so that when they got out of hell realm, they will be able to walk the righteous path and the path towards enlightenment.
As for whether the being will fall back to hell again, it pretty much depends on whether the person cultivates after returning from the hell realm. There is no guarantee a person will not fall into hell unless he is enlightened. Which is also why Ksitigarbha calls for all other bodhisattvas to help him.
I see that you did not comment on why the Bodhisattva chose to save those beings even though he has the ability to foretell where they would go and what kind of deeds they would commit during their temporary lifespan in heaven or human and where they would go after that.
If an Arahant can fortell where a person would end up after his death upon doing a simple good deed, surely a great Bodhisattva like Ksitigarbha would know as well.
Why did he do it if he knew his efforts would be wasted? That is my main question.
And furthermore, when we talk about hell, most of us would think of the hell that exists after death, but there is hell on earth while we are living as well, at least for some of us.
Some work as slaves, some work as prostitutes, some are tortured as prisoners of wars, some died from national famine or drought..To me, this is hell on earth. Just these alone are enough to make me feel very frightened.
These people would not care about what Buddhism has to say about emptiness or Buddha nature. Yes, they would feel empty, instead of realising the nature of emptiness taught by the Buddha.
Sometimes I feel as if I'm bluffing myself all the time that all sentient beings have Buddha nature. I keep on reminding myself that the Buddha would not lie, but yet it is something I cannot see, touch or feel. It is something that I would take aeons to really see a small part of its 'existence'.
It is mentioned that even Arahants see only a bit of their Buddha nature. Only Buddhas sees the Buddha nature as if they are looking at the moon in bright sunlight.
Can someone tell me whether this is considering as self-deceiving that there is Buddha nature?
It's like I have never seen Mount Everest with my own eyes but at least I believe through pictures taken by other travellers. But can anybody take a picture of Buddha nature and show it to the rest of the world? We all know the answer is a firm 'NO'.
Somebody send me to IMH now...
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
I see that you did not comment on why the Bodhisattva chose to save those beings even though he has the ability to foretell where they would go and what kind of deeds they would commit during their temporary lifespan in heaven or human and where they would go after that.
If an Arahant can fortell where a person would end up after his death upon doing a simple good deed, surely a great Bodhisattva like Ksitigarbha would know as well.
Why did he do it if he knew his efforts would be wasted? That is my main question.
And furthermore, when we talk about hell, most of us would think of the hell that exists after death, but there is hell on earth while we are living as well, at least for some of us.
Some work as slaves, some work as prostitutes, some are tortured as prisoners of wars, some died from national famine or drought..To me, this is hell on earth. Just these alone are enough to make me feel very frightened.
These people would not care about what Buddhism has to say about emptiness or Buddha nature. Yes, they would feel empty, instead of realising the nature of emptiness taught by the Buddha.
Sometimes I feel as if I'm bluffing myself all the time that all sentient beings have Buddha nature. I keep on reminding myself that the Buddha would not lie, but yet it is something I cannot see, touch or feel. It is something that I would take aeons to really see a small part of its 'existence'.
It is mentioned that even Arahants see only a bit of their Buddha nature. Only Buddhas sees the Buddha nature as if they are looking at the moon in bright sunlight.
Can someone tell me whether this is considering as self-deceiving that there is Buddha nature?
It's like I have never seen Mount Everest with my own eyes but at least I believe through pictures taken by other travellers. But can anybody take a picture of Buddha nature and show it to the rest of the world? We all know the answer is a firm 'NO'.
Somebody send me to IMH now...
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will have the wisdom to know what is the best for the sentient being and how to guide him so that he will go back on path. Just like Shakyamuni Buddha knows how to guide sentient beings. But after Shakyamuni taught the dharma, it's up to us to practice, he can't walk the path for us. Similarly those who are saved by Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will still have to cultivate in order not to end up in hell again. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva did his part. Just like Shakyamuni's efforts to tame the sentient beings in Jambudvipa is never wasted, so is Ksitigarbha's effort never wasted. But still he can't control whether you are going to do good or evil or whether you are going to walk the path to liberation.
Buddha-nature is unavoidable... but the more you seek the more you are trying to avoid it, like riding on a bull finding the bull. Finding the mind outside the mind... In fact precisely because we have been constantly seeking and desiring we forever miss what is ever present and undergo numberless rebirths.
The sutras say Mind is Buddha.
The sutras also say, the moment you seek a dharma external to Mind (which is Buddha), you are an externalist (xin wai qiu fa shi wai dao). You seek external proof, then you are seeking something external to Mind, and that can never be the Buddha.
Furthermore, the Buddha said in the Diamond Sutra,
“He who sees me (Buddha) in forms or seeks me in sounds is on a heterodox path and cannot see the Tathagata (Buddha).”
“All forms are but illusions, in seeing that all forms are illusory, one sees the Tathagata.”All forms are illusory, you can never seek Buddha in forms. You can never find proof of Buddha-nature from anything external, because everything can be doubted, maybe everything might be the Matrix, maybe a virtual reality.
But something cannot be doubted, look into it. Because you can doubt everything from your room to your life story, it may all be a matrix. But what is undeniable and undoubt-able is the doubting itself, i.e. THIS Present Awareness, the reality of This Moment, your very Presence itself, the reality of Mind/Consciousness/Awareness in which doubting arises and IS the arising doubt. Even if you were to doubt that, that would be Mind/Consciousness/Awareness doubting. That is Buddha.
So can you see now why Buddha Nature is unavoidable? Even if you try to avoid it, it is still Mind running away, Mind trying to avoid Mind. Mind will always be Mind. Can you see that IT is Unavoidable, Undeniable, and Certain? So stop looking elsewhere. Stop all futile seeking and futile avoiding... This is IT.
You can only know Buddha by turning the light inwards and drop all concepts and external seeking...
Thusness said to you previously:
May your wish be fulfilled!
For your first wish, you may need to have an initial glimpse of our inner most essence. You can try the direct approach by asking yourself this,
“Without using any languages, ‘I’, ‘me’ or any signs or symbols, how is ‘I’ experienced?”
Of all teachings, no teaching is more important then a direct ‘touch’ of our Buddha essence; but of all dangers, none is more dangerous than misinterpreting our essence after the ‘touch’.The ‘touch’ of the pure sense of existence is often wrongly understood due to our karmic tendencies. Use the doctrine of Anatta and Emptiness as antidote.
Happy Chinese New Year!p.s. as for your question on Arhat and Bodhisattva, the great Zen Master Huang Po (Master of Zen Master Linji) said:
Our original Buddha-Nature is, in highest truth, devoid of any atom of objectivity. It is void, omnipresent, silent, pure; it is glorious and mysterious peaceful joy - and that is all. Enter deeply into it by awakening to it yourself. That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete. There is naught beside. Even if you go through all the stages of a Bodhisattva's progress towards Buddhahood, one by one; when at last, in a single flash, you attain to full realization, you will only be realizing the Buddha-Nature which has been with you all the time; and by the foregoing stages you will have added nothing to it at all. You will come to look upon those aeons of work and achievement as no better than unreal actions performed in a dream.
This is why the Tathagata said, "I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled enlightenment." He also said: "This Dharma is absolutely without distinctions, neither high nor low, and its name is Bodhi." It is pure Mind, which is the source of everything and which, whether appearing as sentient beings or Buddhas, or as the rivers and mountains of the world which has form, or as that which is formless, or penetrating the whole universe, is absolutely without distinctions, there being no such entities as selfness and otherness.
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That which is called the City of Illusions contains the Two Vehicles, the Ten Stages of a Bodhisattva's Progress, and two forms of Full Enlightenment. All of them are powerful teachings for arousing people's interest, but they still belong to the City of Illusions. That which is called the Place of Precious Things is the real Mind, the original Buddha-essence, the treasure of our own real Nature. These jewels cannot be measured or accumulated. Yet since there are neither Buddha nor sentient beings, neither subject nor object, where can there be a Place of Precious Things? If you ask, "Well, so much for the City of Illusions, but where is the Place of Precious Things?", it is a place to which no directions can be given. For if it could be pointed out, it would be a place existing in space; hence, it would not be the real Place of Precious Things. All we can say is that it is close by. It cannot be exactly described, but when you have a tacit understanding of it, it is there.
My comments: It is close by! It is Intimacy itself. In fact, there is no distance at all between 'you' and 'IT', because IT/Mind is your very Presence.
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All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong in the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you - begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.
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If you are not absolutely convinced that the Mind is the Buddha, and if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way. The Mind is the Buddha, nor are there any other Buddhas or any other mind. It is bright and spotless as the void, having nor form or appearance whatsoever. To make use of your minds to think conceptually is to leave the substance and attach yourselves to form. Awake only to the One Mind, and there is nothing whatsoever to be attained.
If you students of the Way do not awaken to this Mind substance, you will overlay Mind with conceptual thought, you will seek the Buddha outside of yourselves, and you will remain attached to forms, pious practices and so on, all of which are harmful and not at all the way to supreme knowledge.
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The essence of this sutra, according to Master Chin Kung are as follows:
1. Fillial piety and respect for teachers and elders - this is the very basic of our Buddha nature, in Chinese, 地� means treasure within.
2. If we would like to help others in the three bad realms, we must first first improve ourselves by getting rid of attachments, discrimination and wild thoughts gradually - many examples are given within the sutra about the past lives of Ksitigarbha.
3. Fillial piety should be expanded to beyond our parents to include all sentient beings - great vow/compassion
Therefore, in the true spirit of the sutra, it is very important for us to ask ourselves whether we have fillial piety towards our parents. If we already achieve that, then we must spread the messages of fillial piety/respect for elders/teachers to others.
And about hell, what I learn from lecture of Master Chin Kung:
When the thought of anger arise, one can be said to be in hell at that moment. Therefore, hell exists within our mind. If the feeling of anger is not controlled, it will eventually lead to harmful actions to others and eventually the karmic force is so poweful that it leads one to be reincarnated in Hell. Feeling of anger arise due to our attachments, discrimination and wild thoughts, they are not part of our Buddha nature. To control anger or all other negative thoughts, training of mind to be mindful is absolutely important. There are many ways to cultivate mindfulness including meditation, chanting, reciting of amitabha as in pureland buddhism etc.
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Hi Spnw07, I think we should always remind ourselves that the more we study the dharma or the more we practised the path, the more clear we should become, not more confused.
Yes, due to the profound concepts of the dharma, most people like us may naturally in certain stage develop doubts in our minds, which in this case we should at once consult our dharma teachers or any learned Buddhists brothers ( regardless of age of cos, so AEN is one of them
). Studying or reading sutras without guidance can be dangerous for certain people as they may unknowingly form wrong views or thoughts ( 邪知，邪�）. So I guess one way for us to keep on the right tract, is to always go back to the basic: Clear our minds. Pull back all wondering thoughts, no matter how noble they may be, just come back. Come back to what you are doing or going to do now, like boiling the water, mop the floor, read the papers, take a nap, take the mrt to work, SMS your friend, help your mom carry her groceries, help your colleagues in work, say hello to your neighbours, etc. Step by step. You then can go further n further, take on responsibilities more n more with ease, grade up your target higher n higher with confidence.
Master Shen Yan once said that to be a Buddhist is to be a upright person( 好好�人）, then one is not far from being a Bodhisattva or Buddha. This may sound very general and boring to many, but sometimes it is exactly becos we shun the simplicity of the truth and in pursue of the complex that put ourselves in never ending confusions.
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Originally posted by cycle:
So I guess one way for us to keep on the right tract, is to always go back to the basic: Clear our minds. Pull back all wondering thoughts, no matter how noble they may be, just come back.
Come back to what you are doing or going to do now, like boiling the water, mop the floor, read the papers, take a nap, take the mrt to work, SMS your friend, help your mom carry her groceries, help your colleagues in work, say hello to your neighbours, etc. Step by step. You then can go further n further, take on responsibilities more n more with ease, grade up your target higher n higher with confidence.
Well, I have been doing most of what you have said in the above examples. But what happened is that I grew tired and lost in such mundane things and wanted to look for something to fill the void inside.I somehow don't have the heart to care about people when I'm doing daily tasks. It is only when I have nothing to do that I feel like caring for or about people. Mundane tasks numbs me. I'm after all, not Patriarch Hui Neng.
But I really appreciate your advice and encouragement. Thanks, cycle. :)
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will have the wisdom to know what is the best for the sentient being and how to guide him so that he will go back on path.
Just like Shakyamuni Buddha knows how to guide sentient beings. But after Shakyamuni taught the dharma, it's up to us to practice, he can't walk the path for us.
Similarly those who are saved by Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will still have to cultivate in order not to end up in hell again. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva did his part. Just like Shakyamuni's efforts to tame the sentient beings in Jambudvipa is never wasted, so is Ksitigarbha's effort never wasted. But still he can't control whether you are going to do good or evil or whether you are going to walk the path to liberation.
Well, true, you can't always spoonfeed or led someone by the nose all the time. But they are Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, they have exceptional wisdom and compassion, there are countless ways for them to help those who are lazy, stupid or stubborn, much unlike human beings, who would usually draw a line or pass judgement on certain people that they can't be helped if they continue not to listen and so on.
If it's really up to us to practise what is taught, then Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's work should have been completed long ago: as in just teach, you follow or don't follow, none of my business. "Don't follow, you go hell loh. You follow, go heaven or Pureland loh."
If the Bodhisattva began with such an mentality before he started cultivating, I'm sure he wouldn't succeed. And if it's just a matter of "teach the sentient beings and forget", I also don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva still needs to proclaim and undertake greater vows to help all of us when he has already the Tenth level of the Budda-to-be.
If like that, I don't think anyone should shy away from striving for Buddhahood. Cos so simple mah, you teach, they listen or don't listen, practise or don't practise, is their dai ji (business), then where is the compassion, where is the boundless wisdom? Where is the truth that all can become Buddhas?
Why talk about skilful means? What's the purpose of achieving Buddhahood when there will always be people who can't be helped? (For example: Icchantika)
Why not just aim to become an Arahant which is much easier than being a Bodhisattva but yet much more difficult than attaining heavenly birth?
Even Sariputra gave a sigh that the Bodhisattva way is too tough for a virtuous monk like him in his past life. If a virtuous and wise monk like his previous life cannot past the 'test', who am I to be able to do it?
I can't help feeling depressed and helpless when reading stories of wise and virtuous practitioners falling down...It's painful to read and recollect...
I feel afraid cos I worry that raising the thought to attain Buddhahood might lead me to the same end up like Sariputra..falling into the smaller vehicle or quitting cultivation for a long, long time...
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Originally posted by cycle:
Hi Spnw07, I think we should always remind ourselves that the more we study the dharma or the more we practised the path, the more clear we should become, not more confused.
Yes, due to the profound concepts of the dharma, most people like us may naturally in certain stage develop doubts in our minds, which in this case we should at once consult our dharma teachers or any learned Buddhists brothers ( regardless of age of cos, so AEN is one of them
).Studying or reading sutras without guidance can be dangerous for certain people as they may unknowingly form wrong views or thoughts ( 邪知，邪�）.
I remember Master Chin Kung has been encouraging and urging all to read and practise 弟å�规 (Di Zi Gui) and had said that if we read sutras on our own daily with a clear mind, we will eventually understand.
But it is precisely my mind is not clear, that I feel like reading sutras. When my mind is clear, somehow I don't feel like reading sutras most of the time. Although I do not or cannot understand when reading in a frustrated or depressed state of mind, there is a sense of security and love from reading the kind and wise words of the Buddha and Bodhisattvas.
I don't know about anyone here, but I just seriously dislike all those rules taught in Di Zi Gui. I hate being preached and lectured to.
My character is more like Sun Wukong; I like to be free. Not very kind, but not very evil too.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Well, true, you can't always spoonfeed or led someone by the nose all the time. But they are Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, they have exceptional wisdom and compassion, there are countless ways for them to help those who are lazy, stupid or stubborn, much unlike human beings, who would usually draw a line or pass judgement on certain people that they can't be helped if they continue not to listen and so on.
If it's really up to us to practise what is taught, then Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's work should have been completed long ago: as in just teach, you follow or don't follow, none of my business. "Don't follow, you go hell loh. You follow, go heaven or Pureland loh."
If the Bodhisattva began with such an mentality before he started cultivating, I'm sure he wouldn't succeed. And if it's just a matter of "teach the sentient beings and forget", I also don't think Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva still needs to proclaim and undertake greater vows to help all of us when he has already the Tenth level of the Budda-to-be.
If like that, I don't think anyone should shy away from striving for Buddhahood. Cos so simple mah, you teach, they listen or don't listen, practise or don't practise, is their dai ji (business), then where is the compassion, where is the boundless wisdom? Where is the truth that all can become Buddhas?
Why talk about skilful means? What's the purpose of achieving Buddhahood when there will always be people who can't be helped? (For example: Icchantika)
Why not just aim to become an Arahant which is much easier than being a Bodhisattva but yet much more difficult than attaining heavenly birth?
Even Sariputra gave a sigh that the Bodhisattva way is too tough for a virtuous monk like him in his past life. If a virtuous and wise monk like his previous life cannot past the 'test', who am I to be able to do it?
I can't help feeling depressed and helpless when reading stories of wise and virtuous practitioners falling down...It's painful to read and recollect...
I feel afraid cos I worry that raising the thought to attain Buddhahood might lead me to the same end up like Sariputra..falling into the smaller vehicle or quitting cultivation for a long, long time...
It's not a matter of whether he wants or do not want to guide sentient beings. Of course Buddhas would want and do their best to guide sentient beings, and in some cases would use many skillful means to encourage sentient beings to practice, but in the end its up to us. Buddhas really cannot walk the path for us, this is one of the things that a Buddha cannot do. He cannot grant enlightenment or practice for you. He also cannot change your karma, etc. He cannot control your mind and make you avoid evil, do good, and purify your mind. If all these were possible, there would already be no Hell, and all beings would be long enlightened. Enlightened beings can guide us out of suffering, but it depends on whether we practice as he taught.
If a sentient being is lazy, the Buddha can teach an antidote to deal with that laziness. But if the sentient being does not apply that antidote, it is also useless. The Buddha cannot make 'laziness' disappear into thin air. If the sentient being is stupid, the Buddha also has a way of guiding him. The stupid monk Chunda also gained enlightenment, but he was sincere and diligent, followed Buddha's advise. Unfortunately, there are some who really cannot be tamed, at least not in that lifetime, as much as the Buddha wants. There is no conditions, the conditions isn't there yet. Everyone will eventually attain Buddhahood, but doesn't mean he will start practicing in that lifetime. You cannot force everyone to follow and practice the dharma or follow a sage's advise.
As much as Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva would like to liberate all beings, if we do not cooperate with him then it will not happen. Of course, beings in hell will surely listen to Ksitigarbha, because they are in such state of suffering that there is no way he would not want to follow the path that can get him out of suffering.
But when the being return to the human realm, if he forgot about his past suffering and continue to engage in evil behaviors, then he will then continue to fall back into the lower realms.
Hence, other Bodhisattvas here on Earth need to guide sentient beings so that they will not fall into hell and walk the path towards liberation. If fewer people fall into hell, Ksitigarbha's vows becomes accomplished easier.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will have the wisdom to know what is the best for the sentient being and how to guide him so that he will go back on path. Just like Shakyamuni Buddha knows how to guide sentient beings. But after Shakyamuni taught the dharma, it's up to us to practice, he can't walk the path for us. Similarly those who are saved by Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva will still have to cultivate in order not to end up in hell again. Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva did his part. Just like Shakyamuni's efforts to tame the sentient beings in Jambudvipa is never wasted, so is Ksitigarbha's effort never wasted. But still he can't control whether you are going to do good or evil or whether you are going to walk the path to liberation.
Buddha-nature is unavoidable... but the more you seek the more you are trying to avoid it, like riding on a bull finding the bull. Finding the mind outside the mind... In fact precisely because we have been constantly seeking and desiring we forever miss what is ever present and undergo numberless rebirths.
The sutras say Mind is Buddha.
The sutras also say, the moment you seek a dharma external to Mind (which is Buddha), you are an externalist (xin wai qiu fa shi wai dao). You seek external proof, then you are seeking something external to Mind, and that can never be the Buddha.
Furthermore, the Buddha said in the Diamond Sutra,
“He who sees me (Buddha) in forms or seeks me in sounds is on a heterodox path and cannot see the Tathagata (Buddha).”
“All forms are but illusions, in seeing that all forms are illusory, one sees the Tathagata.”All forms are illusory, you can never seek Buddha in forms. You can never find proof of Buddha-nature from anything external, because everything can be doubted, maybe everything might be the Matrix, maybe a virtual reality.
But something cannot be doubted, look into it. Because you can doubt everything from your room to your life story, it may all be a matrix. But what is undeniable and undoubt-able is the doubting itself, i.e. THIS Present Awareness, the reality of This Moment, your very Presence itself, the reality of Mind/Consciousness/Awareness in which doubting arises and IS the arising doubt. Even if you were to doubt that, that would be Mind/Consciousness/Awareness doubting. That is Buddha.
So can you see now why Buddha Nature is unavoidable? Even if you try to avoid it, it is still Mind running away, Mind trying to avoid Mind. Mind will always be Mind. Can you see that IT is Unavoidable, Undeniable, and Certain? So stop looking elsewhere. Stop all futile seeking and futile avoiding... This is IT.
You can only know Buddha by turning the light inwards and drop all concepts and external seeking...
Thusness said to you previously:
May your wish be fulfilled!
For your first wish, you may need to have an initial glimpse of our inner most essence. You can try the direct approach by asking yourself this,
“Without using any languages, ‘I’, ‘me’ or any signs or symbols, how is ‘I’ experienced?”
Of all teachings, no teaching is more important then a direct ‘touch’ of our Buddha essence; but of all dangers, none is more dangerous than misinterpreting our essence after the ‘touch’.The ‘touch’ of the pure sense of existence is often wrongly understood due to our karmic tendencies. Use the doctrine of Anatta and Emptiness as antidote.
Happy Chinese New Year!p.s. as for your question on Arhat and Bodhisattva, the great Zen Master Huang Po (Master of Zen Master Linji) said:
Our original Buddha-Nature is, in highest truth, devoid of any atom of objectivity. It is void, omnipresent, silent, pure; it is glorious and mysterious peaceful joy - and that is all. Enter deeply into it by awakening to it yourself. That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete. There is naught beside. Even if you go through all the stages of a Bodhisattva's progress towards Buddhahood, one by one; when at last, in a single flash, you attain to full realization, you will only be realizing the Buddha-Nature which has been with you all the time; and by the foregoing stages you will have added nothing to it at all. You will come to look upon those aeons of work and achievement as no better than unreal actions performed in a dream.
This is why the Tathagata said, "I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled enlightenment." He also said: "This Dharma is absolutely without distinctions, neither high nor low, and its name is Bodhi." It is pure Mind, which is the source of everything and which, whether appearing as sentient beings or Buddhas, or as the rivers and mountains of the world which has form, or as that which is formless, or penetrating the whole universe, is absolutely without distinctions, there being no such entities as selfness and otherness.
***
That which is called the City of Illusions contains the Two Vehicles, the Ten Stages of a Bodhisattva's Progress, and two forms of Full Enlightenment. All of them are powerful teachings for arousing people's interest, but they still belong to the City of Illusions. That which is called the Place of Precious Things is the real Mind, the original Buddha-essence, the treasure of our own real Nature. These jewels cannot be measured or accumulated. Yet since there are neither Buddha nor sentient beings, neither subject nor object, where can there be a Place of Precious Things? If you ask, "Well, so much for the City of Illusions, but where is the Place of Precious Things?", it is a place to which no directions can be given. For if it could be pointed out, it would be a place existing in space; hence, it would not be the real Place of Precious Things. All we can say is that it is close by. It cannot be exactly described, but when you have a tacit understanding of it, it is there.
My comments: It is close by! It is Intimacy itself. In fact, there is no distance at all between 'you' and 'IT', because IT/Mind is your very Presence.
***
All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong in the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you - begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.
***
If you are not absolutely convinced that the Mind is the Buddha, and if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way. The Mind is the Buddha, nor are there any other Buddhas or any other mind. It is bright and spotless as the void, having nor form or appearance whatsoever. To make use of your minds to think conceptually is to leave the substance and attach yourselves to form. Awake only to the One Mind, and there is nothing whatsoever to be attained.
If you students of the Way do not awaken to this Mind substance, you will overlay Mind with conceptual thought, you will seek the Buddha outside of yourselves, and you will remain attached to forms, pious practices and so on, all of which are harmful and not at all the way to supreme knowledge.
Don’t wander, don’t wander, place mindfulness on guard;
Along the road of distraction, Mara lies in ambush.
Mara is the mind, clinging to like and dislike,
So look into the essence of this magic, free from
dualistic fixation.
Realize that your mind is unfabricated primordial purity;
There is no buddha elsewhere, look at your own face;
There is nothing else to search for, rest in your own place;
Non-meditation is spontaneous perfection so capture the
royal seat.*~ Tsoknyi Rinpoche I
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
It's not a matter of whether he wants or do not want to guide sentient beings. Of course Buddhas would want and do their best to guide sentient beings, and in some cases would use many skillful means to encourage sentient beings to practice, but in the end its up to us. Buddhas really cannot walk the path for us, this is one of the things that a Buddha cannot do. He cannot grant enlightenment or practice for you. He also cannot change your karma, etc. He cannot control your mind and make you avoid evil, do good, and purify your mind. If all these were possible, there would already be no Hell, and all beings would be long enlightened. Enlightened beings can guide us out of suffering, but it depends on whether we practice as he taught.
I agree. I was trying to emphasise Buddha's message to us from Ksitigarba Bodhisattva sutra that most sentient being cannot stay firm and steadfast in being good, in being wholesome and pure in thoughts, words and deeds.
It is this fact that allows us to how important wisdom and compassion is. It is this fact that despite the Buddha cannot control our mind, there is still plenty that he can do to 'influence' us to stay on the course of wholesome deeds and the path to liberation.
Just like how secret societies work. They are proactive, they know how to judge a lonely and restless person, they attack the very core of your desires and fears.
The Buddha has boundless wisdom and compassionate. I'm sure he can do even much, much more, great things than any kind of manipulative human being to help us want to trust, accept and practise his teachings.
If a sentient being is lazy, the Buddha can teach an antidote to deal with that laziness. But if the sentient being does not apply that antidote, it is also useless. The Buddha cannot make 'laziness' disappear into thin air. If the sentient being is stupid, the Buddha also has a way of guiding him. The stupid monk Chunda also gained enlightenment, but he was sincere and diligent, followed Buddha's advise. Unfortunately, there are some who really cannot be tamed, at least not in that lifetime, as much as the Buddha wants. There is no conditions, the conditions isn't there yet. Everyone will eventually attain Buddhahood, but doesn't mean he will start practicing in that lifetime. You cannot force everyone to follow and practice the dharma or follow a sage's advise.
Well, have you heard of 怒目金刚？It is said that the angry-eye vajra protector of the Buddhas is actually another manifestation of the Buddhas and dharma-body Bodhisattvas.
The main purpose is to 'force' those who are arrogant, egoistic or dogmatic, to comply, to listen. To warn sternly of the dangers of arrogance, anger and hatred.
For example, National Service in Singapore and countries like Israel is 'forced', no matter how grand and noble the aim any leader or hot-blooded citizen may make it out to be.
But does it work? Well, I think it does, at least to a great extent.
There are some who need to be 'forced', some who need to be 'pampered' and some who need to be 'lied to' and maybe all three approaches at the same time, among the countless ways too.
And the above can only be done by a truly enlightened Bodhisattva or Buddha.
As much as Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva would like to liberate all beings, if we do not cooperate with him then it will not happen. Of course, beings in hell will surely listen to Ksitigarbha, because they are in such state of suffering that there is no way he would not want to follow the path that can get him out of suffering.
But when the being return to the human realm, if he forgot about his past suffering and continue to engage in evil behaviors, then he will then continue to fall back into the lower realms.
Hence, other Bodhisattvas here on Earth need to guide sentient beings so that they will not fall into hell and walk the path towards liberation. If fewer people fall into hell, Ksitigarbha's vows becomes accomplished easier.
In Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Sutra of Original Vows, it is stated that those who recite, follow respectully the teachings, make offerings like flowers and necessities of the best quality, will find that they can reap the following 28 benefits: (I shall list only a few for brevity)
Protection and mindfulness of devas and nagas;
Possession of the miraculous power of knowing one's previous lives;
All prayers will be answered;
Delight and happiness for the members of one's family;
Elimination of all unexpected and unpleasant happenings;
Permanent eradication of the karmic ways of life;
Always passing through safely wherever one travels;
Fullness of mercy, pity and compassion;
Ultimate attainment of Buddhahood.
You will notice that one of those benefits involves being able to know one's previous lives. It is this particular benefit that leads me to infer that those who had been delivered by the Bodhisattva temporarily to heaven or human realm from their hellish suffering, should be able to recall their previous lives by the empowerment of the Bodhisattva's vows and their faith in the Bodhisattva.
I somehow find it hard to reconcile that those saved by Bodhisattva from the 3 evil realms even for one lifetime, will eventually fall back into evil realms again.
Couldn't the Bodhisattva manifest into countless beings to guide these 'newly-released' prisioners, to make sure they don't fall in again? Or else he would have to take the trouble to save them again as mentioned clearly in the sutra?
P.S: Would you expect a lunatic not to abuse you verbally or violently? What are the chances that you would kena either one when you approach such people? The Buddha gave an analogy that likens all sentient beings in their unawakened state to that of a lunatic in a chapter of the Shurangama Sutra (楞严�）
Would Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva expect 'lunatics' to cooperate with him? Only partially awakened ones like Arahants and Bodhisattvas would. Even if we sentient beings do try, enlightened or not, there's no guarantee we would really understand the real intentions and skilful means of a great Bodhisattva. The only thing we can do is not to hinder the bodhisattva, I personally don't dare to even think of being able to help the bodhisattva in any way, at least for many lifetimes to come.
Unless and till I become a non-regressive Bodhisattva in wisdom and compassion, I dare not even dream of being able to help, I just hope and try not to hinder in any way, as far as possible.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
I agree. I was trying to emphasise Buddha's message to us from Ksitigarba Bodhisattva sutra that most sentient being cannot stay firm and steadfast in being good, in being wholesome and pure in thoughts, words and deeds.
It is this fact that allows us to how important wisdom and compassion is. It is this fact that despite the Buddha cannot control our mind, there is still plenty that he can do to 'influence' us to stay on the course of wholesome deeds and the path to liberation.
Just like how secret societies work. They are proactive, they know how to judge a lonely and restless person, they attack the very core of your desires and fears.
The Buddha has boundless wisdom and compassionate. I'm sure he can do even much, much more, great things than any kind of manipulative human being to help us want to trust, accept and practise his teachings.
Well, have you heard of 怒目金刚？It is said that the angry-eye vajra protector of the Buddhas is actually another manifestation of the Buddhas and dharma-body Bodhisattvas.
The main purpose is to 'force' those who are arrogant, egoistic or dogmatic, to comply, to listen. To warn sternly of the dangers of arrogance, anger and hatred.
For example, National Service in Singapore and countries like Israel is 'forced', no matter how grand and noble the aim any leader or hot-blooded citizen may make it out to be.
But does it work? Well, I think it does, at least to a great extent.
There are some who need to be 'forced', some who need to be 'pampered' and some who need to be 'lied to' and maybe all three approaches at the same time, among the countless ways too.
And the above can only be done by a truly enlightened Bodhisattva or Buddha.
In Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva Sutra of Original Vows, it is stated that those who recite, follow respectully the teachings, make offerings like flowers and necessities of the best quality, will find that they can reap the following 28 benefits: (I shall list only a few for brevity)
Protection and mindfulness of devas and nagas;
Possession of the miraculous power of knowing one's previous lives;
All prayers will be answered;
Delight and happiness for the members of one's family;
Elimination of all unexpected and unpleasant happenings;
Permanent eradication of the karmic ways of life;
Always passing through safely wherever one travels;
Fullness of mercy, pity and compassion;
Ultimate attainment of Buddhahood.
You will notice that one of those benefits involves being able to know one's previous lives. It is this particular benefit that leads me to infer that those who had been delivered by the Bodhisattva temporarily to heaven or human realm from their hellish suffering, should be able to recall their previous lives by the empowerment of the Bodhisattva's vows and their faith in the Bodhisattva.
I somehow find it hard to reconcile that those saved by Bodhisattva from the 3 evil realms even for one lifetime, will eventually fall back into evil realms again.
Couldn't the Bodhisattva manifest into countless beings to guide these 'newly-released' prisioners, to make sure they don't fall in again? Or else he would have to take the trouble to save them again as mentioned clearly in the sutra?
P.S: Would you expect a lunatic not to abuse you verbally or violently? What are the chances that you would kena either one when you approach such people? The Buddha gave an analogy that likens all sentient beings in their unawakened state to that of a lunatic in a chapter of the Shurangama Sutra (楞严�）
Would Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva expect 'lunatics' to cooperate with him? Only partially awakened ones like Arahants and Bodhisattvas would. Even if we sentient beings do try, enlightened or not, there's no guarantee we would really understand the real intentions and skilful means of a great Bodhisattva. The only thing we can do is not to hinder the bodhisattva, I personally don't dare to even think of being able to help the bodhisattva in any way, at least for many lifetimes to come.
Unless and till I become a non-regressive Bodhisattva in wisdom and compassion, I dare not even dream of being able to help, I just hope and try not to hinder in any way, as far as possible.
About your 怒目金刚, it works for certain circumstances and does not work for all circumstances. To the ghost realm the Bodhisattvas wld appear as such. Don't think it is commonly used in human realm, of course it is used sometimes but not often. (e.g. though we need to show wrath and punish those who keep repeating mistakes in order to change them) But did you see Shakyamuni appear in such a way to the masses..? It is not applicable in all situations.
As for the 28 benefits, you can obtain these benefits only if you keep practicing. Do you think just by offering flower once you can gain Buddhahood and remember past lives? Therefore it requires consistent, sincere practice before the practice can bear fruition.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
About your 怒目金刚, it works for certain circumstances and does not work for all circumstances. To the ghost realm the Bodhisattvas wld appear as such. Don't think it is commonly used in human realm, of course it is used sometimes but not often. (e.g. though we need to show wrath and punish those who keep repeating mistakes in order to change them) But did you see Shakyamuni appear in such a way to the masses..? It is not applicable in all situations.
As for the 28 benefits, you can obtain these benefits only if you keep practicing. Do you think just by offering flower once you can gain Buddhahood and remember past lives? Therefore it requires consistent, sincere practice before the practice can bear fruition.
'怒目金刚' if used in the human realm, the Bodhisattva or Buddha can manifest as a man or woman who has great authority or power in an organisation or country. It is possible. For example, the Bodhisattva can manifest as an army officer or maybe CEO..etc.
If one time cannot get the benefit, then how many times is enough? Isn't it commonly said in scriptures that there are people who can get the benefit right after making offerings to the Buddha?
What's the purpose of revealing these benefits if no one can prove their effect in their present lifetimes?
If the purpose of revealing these benefits is to encourage people to practise, then first of all they need to be certain they are doing it right and will hence be able to reap those benefits as soon as possible, so as to prevent them from doubting or slandering that such benefits are not real at all.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
I somehow find it hard to reconcile that those saved by Bodhisattva from the 3 evil realms even for one lifetime, will eventually fall back into evil realms again.
As you know, born in human realm is a very rare and auspicious opportunity to practice dharma. Although Ksitigharba bodhisattva can't guarantee 100% of those he saved will practice diligently, but at least he help them to get out of the hell, even if it is just few seconds, is already a great relieve especially to those who suffer in Avici hell.
If you really worry that, then practice hard to be a bodhisattva to save sentient beings in human realm then.Originally posted by Spnw07:If one time cannot get the benefit, then how many times is enough? Isn't it commonly said in scriptures that there are people who can get the benefit right after making offerings to the Buddha?
What's the purpose of revealing these benefits if no one can prove their effect in their present lifetimes?
If the purpose of revealing these benefits is to encourage people to practise, then first of all they need to be certain they are doing it right and will hence be able to reap those benefits as soon as possible, so as to prevent them from doubting or slandering that such benefits are not real at all.
If one give offering to buddha with wandering thoughts and expect something good in return, then isn't it the same as donating money to temple expecting oneself to become rich in return. It is mentioned in one of the previous post, this kind of "offering" though can give you some good karma, but can never compare with offering out of pure mind.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
'怒目金刚' if used in the human realm, the Bodhisattva or Buddha can manifest as a man or woman who has great authority or power in an organisation or country. It is possible. For example, the Bodhisattva can manifest as an army officer or maybe CEO..etc.
If one time cannot get the benefit, then how many times is enough? Isn't it commonly said in scriptures that there are people who can get the benefit right after making offerings to the Buddha?
What's the purpose of revealing these benefits if no one can prove their effect in their present lifetimes?
If the purpose of revealing these benefits is to encourage people to practise, then first of all they need to be certain they are doing it right and will hence be able to reap those benefits as soon as possible, so as to prevent them from doubting or slandering that such benefits are not real at all.
Yes, if circumstances permit the Bodhisattva can show 怒目金刚
I don't know how many times is enough, but I think it would need some period of time of sincere and consistent practice. You can proof the effects if you are sincere in your practice, and consistent. If attaining Buddhahood or remember past lives is that easy as to simply give offering once, then I think all Buddhist practitioners can remember past lives or attain enlightenment by now.
BTW, you may want to check out this sutra, though it's not Ksitigarbha Sutra but it shows what happens (signs) if a practitioner chant a specific number of times (like, 200000, 300000, 600000, 800000 etc). The minimum would be 4320 for some kind of ritual where you will see the appearance of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Otherwise you need to chant a few hundred thousand times in order to clear off your karma, and so on, and there will be visions appearing to you to confirm that you have accomplished that. (See the URL)
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Originally posted by justdoit77:
If you really worry that, then practice hard to be a bodhisattva to save sentient beings in human realm then..
I know that. I was saying it cos I realised the seriousness of the matter concerning sentient being's sinful acts and resultant sufferings in the Dharma-Ending Age.
No matter how diligent I am, I will not make it in time to help sentient beings in our present dharma ending age; which I suppose is the reason why Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva took on more vows to help us despite the fact he has being doing so for incalculable aeons and that Sakayamuni Buddha entrusted the deliverance of the saha world to Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva till the next Buddha finally arrives in our world.
If one give offering to buddha with wandering thoughts and expect something good in return, then isn't it the same as donating money to temple expecting oneself to become rich in return. It is mentioned in one of the previous post, this kind of "offering" though can give you some good karma, but can never compare with offering out of pure mind
However, not many people can give without telling them that they can get some benefit in return.
If all sentient beings can give with a pure mind without wandering thoughts and expectations of good returns at the start, seriously I don't think Buddhas need to tell us if there is any benefit at all when reciting/offering anything etc. to the Bodhisattva.
Only those who have a pure mind will not ask about benefits when doing any good deed in the context of the Triple Gems. Those who will ask are either Bodhisattvas asking on behalf of sentient beings or mere sentient beings like me.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I don't know how many times is enough, but I think it would need some period of time of sincere and consistent practice. You can proof the effects if you are sincere in your practice, and consistent. If attaining Buddhahood or remember past lives is that easy as to simply give offering once, then I think all Buddhist practitioners can remember past lives or attain enlightenment by now.
BTW, you may want to check out this sutra, though it's not Ksitigarbha Sutra but it shows what happens (signs) if a practitioner chant a specific number of times (like, 200000, 300000, 600000, 800000 etc). The minimum would be 4320 for some kind of ritual where you will see the appearance of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Otherwise you need to chant a few hundred thousand times in order to clear off your karma, and so on, and there will be visions appearing to you to confirm that you have accomplished that. (See the URL)
Hmm, since you don't know how many times is enough, so can I assume that you have not yet personally tried out what is taught in the sutra on achieving those benefits? (chanting/making offerings etc) But anyway thanks for giving me the link. :)
I wish to quote the below from Sutra of Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's Original Vows:
"Moreover, Contemplator of the World's Sounds Bodhisattva, in the future, good men or good women may have to enter mountain forests, cross over rivers, seas, or other large bodies of water, or take dangerous routes either for the sake of earning their own livelihood, or for public or personal affairs, or matters of life and death, or other urgent business.
Such people should first recite the name of Earth Store Bodhisattva a full ten thousand times. The ghosts and spirits of the lands they pass through will then guard and protect them in their walking, standing, sitting, and lying down.
The peace and happiness of those people will constantly be preserved, so that even if they encounter tigers, wolves, lions, or any other harmful or poisonous creatures, they will not be harmed."
They should place a bowl of pure water before the Bodhisattva for one day and one night.
Afterwards, placing their palms together, they should state their request and then, while facing south, prepare to drink the water. As the water is about to enter their mouths they should be particularly sincere and solemn.
After drinking the water they should abstain from the five pungent plants, wine, meat, improper sexual activity, false speech, and all killing and harming for one to three weeks.
"In dreams those good men and good women may then see Earth Store Bodhisattva manifesting a boundless body and anointing the crowns of their heads with water.
When they awaken they may be endowed with keen intelligence.
From the above quotes, I wonder if I can infer that ten thousand times would be the bare minimum for chanting and in addition they should abstain from five pungent plants, wine, improper sexual activity, false speech and all killing and harming in the process?
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Hmm, since you don't know how many times is enough, so can I assume that you have not yet personally tried out what is taught in the sutra on achieving those benefits? (chanting/making offerings etc) But anyway thanks for giving me the link. :)
I wish to quote the below from Sutra of Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva's Original Vows:
From the above quotes, I wonder if I can infer that ten thousand times would be the bare minimum for chanting and in addition they should abstain from five pungent plants, wine, improper sexual activity, false speech and all killing and harming in the process?
I'm not sure, maybe for different benefits need different level of practice? I think other factors may include sincerity, one pointedness, and so on. I only chant time to time, but never to the point of ten thousand or hundred thousand times.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Yes, if circumstances permit the Bodhisattva can show 怒目金刚
I don't know how many times is enough, but I think it would need some period of time of sincere and consistent practice. You can proof the effects if you are sincere in your practice, and consistent. If attaining Buddhahood or remember past lives is that easy as to simply give offering once, then I think all Buddhist practitioners can remember past lives or attain enlightenment by now.
BTW, you may want to check out this sutra, though it's not Ksitigarbha Sutra but it shows what happens (signs) if a practitioner chant a specific number of times (like, 200000, 300000, 600000, 800000 etc). The minimum would be 4320 for some kind of ritual where you will see the appearance of the buddhas and bodhisattvas. Otherwise you need to chant a few hundred thousand times in order to clear off your karma, and so on, and there will be visions appearing to you to confirm that you have accomplished that. (See the URL)
Not 4320 times, but 3348. And there are cases such as child spirit possession, but chanting total of 28 times, tying string and throwing mustard seeds (see url) the posession can be cured.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Not 4320 times, but 3348. And there are cases such as child spirit possession, but chanting total of 28 times, tying string and throwing mustard seeds (see url) the posession can be cured.
AEN is indeed quite resourceful. :)