In no order of importance:
1) ç�‰ç’ƒçŽ‹å�: He defied the Buddha's intervention to prevent the massacre of the Sakya clan. I think he will go to hell. If he has gone to hell, I wonder how he is now. I worry for him.
2) Sariputra: He gouged both his eyes to help a person who wanted a practitioner's eyes for brewing medicine for his blind mother. However, because his eyes were crushed by the person as it was regarded as filthy, Sariptura regressed on the spot and regretted making the vow to become a Bodhisattva. From then on he cultivated as smaller vehicle practitioner for many lifetimes.
But in Lotus Sutra, Sariptura (�利佛) was given the future Buddha to be prediction by the Buddha. You don't know how happy I was to read about that! ^^
3) 阿阇世王å�：He ordered for the starvation of his father and almost tried to kill his mother. However, he was later saved by the Buddha and was predicted by the Buddha that he would become a Buddha in the future.
4) �达婆多 (Devadatta): He had tried to kill the Buddha many times but only came close to doing it on one occasion. That particular incident caused the Buddha's feet to bleed and that was considered as hurting the Buddha, a very grievous karma that sentenced him to many aeons in hell.
However, in the Lotus sutra, the Buddha clearly states that Devadatta, after his suffering is over, would attain Buddhahood and would be known as 天王佛.
Yeh! Yippee! Worry number 3 solved. ^^
5) 善星比丘：This monk went around refuting Buddha's teachings, directly or indirectly implying that Buddha's teachings are false or wrong. He would also try to sweep the footprints of the Buddha on the roads so that people would not be able to find the Buddha.
I read about him in 《佛说大涅��》, from which I learned the term 'icchantika' or 一��. I was so sad cos I knew this monk's deeds is equivalent to slandering the Triple Gems and the negative karma is so heavy that the Buddha likened it to trying to pull a person out of a cesspit through a single strand of his hair. No matter how hard one can try, the victim can never be saved.
The Buddha also mentioned that if one kills an icchantika, there would be no negative karma for the aggressor, cos there is no single strand of good karma in an icchantika. An icchantika is one with no past or present good karma in him/her, according to the Buddha.
The best glimpse of hope offered by the Buddha in the same sutra was that Buddha nature is neither past, present nor future and has no nature of being created or destroyed, hence in the future when circumstances allow, the icchantika would still have a chance.
I was so depressed even after reading about this verse which offered the slightest glimpse of hope, that I found it difficult to sleep that night. But I'm less affected now. Although feelings of sympathy and hopelessness are still around...
Originally posted by Spnw07:2) Sariputra: He gouged both his eyes to help a person who wanted a practitioner's eyes for brewing medicine for his blind mother. However, because his eyes were crushed by the person as it was regarded as filthy, Sariptura regressed on the spot and regretted making the vow to become a Bodhisattva. From then on he cultivated as smaller vehicle practitioner for many lifetimes.
But in Lotus Sutra, Sariptura (�利佛) was given the future Buddha to be prediction by the Buddha. You don't know how happy I was to read about that! ^^
In Lotus Sutra, it is taught there is only One Vehicle, not two, not three. What this means is there is no three different fruitions, and all paths (whether Hinayana or Mahayana) and all beings eventually will lead to/attain Buddhahood.
For Sravakas it is a little slower because they will get stuck in their personal nirvana for a long time. Eventually they have to Hui Xiao Xiang Da, turn to Mahayana. Of course that is according to Mahayana views, Theravada disagrees.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:In Lotus Sutra, it is taught there is only One Vehicle, not two, not three. What this means is there is no three different fruitions, and all paths (whether Hinayana or Mahayana) and all beings eventually will lead to/attain Buddhahood.
For Sravakas it is a little slower because they will get stuck in their personal nirvana for a long time. Eventually they have to Hui Xiao Xiang Da, turn to Mahayana. Of course that is according to Mahayana views, Theravada disagrees.
Yup, I read about the above from Lotus Sutra and other sutras. But thanks for pointing out to me again and the rest. :)
Btw, since Theravada disagrees, does this mean the Mahayana view is false or wrong? What arguments or proofs have surfaced concerning this issue, if any?
This is a difficult topic and people have been debating this without much conclusions for over a thousand years.
I am personally convinced that Mahayana is valid, true, and are Buddha's words.
The words and wisdom cannot possibly not have come from a fully enlightened being.
To summarize the story of ç�‰ç’ƒçŽ‹å�, 阿阇世王å�, æ��达婆多, 善星比丘. We are responsible for our own action. But no matter how bad the karma one has, the suffering is not permanent and eventually it will be cleared off after series of suffering.
Regarding 阿阇世王å�, although he ordered for the starvation of his father and almost
tried to kill his mother. But after many incidents, he finally repent for his mistake to buddha and deeply regreted of the wrongdoing he did. So, his bad karma is also reduced accordingly. In our past lifes, we also did a lot of wrongdoings, therefore we should follow the buddha teaching, repent all our mistakes caused by greed, hatred and ignorance.
For �达婆多, having anger on buddha will cause a very bad karma for him already whether or not he managed to cause buddha's toe to bleed.
btw, where did you hear that killing an icchantika has no negative karma. Pls note that there are many types of icchantika, which are æ–å–„é˜�æ��,大悲é˜�æ��,æ— æ€§é˜�æ��.
Pls share with us the hyperlink.
not bad, as a beginner, you already completed the é‡Šè¿¦ç‰Ÿå°¼ä½›ä¼ and 佛说大涅ç£�ç»� :)
Originally posted by justdoit77:btw, where did you hear that killing an icchantika has no negative karma. Pls note that there are many types of icchantika, which are æ–å–„é˜�æ��,大悲é˜�æ��,æ— æ€§é˜�æ��.
Pls share with us the hyperlink.
not bad, as a beginner, you already completed the é‡Šè¿¦ç‰Ÿå°¼ä½›ä¼ and 佛说大涅ç£�ç»� :)
I have read from other books and also from the same sutra, 佛说大涅��. But I have forgotten which chapter and verse clearly states that killing an icchantika has no negative karma. However the sutra also has Buddha concluding that icchantika will eventually attain Buddhahood.
But the explanation is quite deep, so I have diffculties understanding the flow of the 'no Buddha nature, then ultimately still have Buddha nature' concept.
http://www.fosss.org/dbnpj/dbnpj33.htm
The above link shares the story of icchantika Shan Xing monk (Kind Star monk) and how the Buddha uses his wisdom and compassion to prevent him from doing further damage to the spread of the Dharma.
I do not know anything about the three types of icchantika you've mentioned, for I'm still a beginner. Please share with me links pointing to sutra sources.
Actually, I wish to encourage all beginners to eventually try reading 佛说大涅��. It answers many important questions about the commonly heard phrase 'All sentient beings have Buddha nature'.
It has helped to clear many of my doubts and I sincerely hope that it would do the same for most, if not all who read the sutra with a sincere and clear mind.
After reading the sutra, if any do not understand the explanations given by the Buddha, feel free to share them here with the community.
Who knows, there might be a real Bodhisattva or Buddha online. ^_^
Originally posted by Spnw07:
But the explanation is quite deep, so I have diffculties understanding the flow of the 'no Buddha nature, then ultimately still have Buddha nature' concept.
Don't think the sutra said no Buddha nature, then still have Buddha nature. All beings have Buddha-Nature -- Buddha nature is the natural state of all beings, enlightened or unenlightened.
Buddha nature is ever present, without which there would not be our being or any awareness. It is just temporarily obscured.
All sentient forms have Buddha Nature, all insentient forms have dharma nature. They are one. (buddha nature being called such due to the potential to attain Buddhahood)
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Don't think the sutra said no Buddha nature, then still have Buddha nature. All beings have Buddha-Nature -- Buddha nature is the natural state of all beings, enlightened or unenlightened.
Buddha nature is ever present, without which there would not be our being or any awareness. It is just temporarily obscured.
All sentient forms have Buddha Nature, all insentient forms have dharma nature. They are one. (buddha nature being called such due to the potential to attain Buddhahood)
I think I should substitute the words 'Buddha nature' in the above quote with 'liberation'. I was referring to the Buddha's answers on the possible salavation or liberation of icchantikas. I was unable to understand why icchantikas are the way they are despite they have the potential to be fully-awakened.
There were many explanations that first say that icchantikas cannot be saved no matter what cos they have completely severed all good roots of the present and the past. It's like trying to grow something out of charcoal, if I remember the specific analogy correctly.
I do understand that Buddha nature refers to the potential to attain Buddhahood as mentioned too in the sutra. However, I hope to understand more about what are the specific causes and conditions that leads to a sentient being become someone who is completely void of any single trace of past and present good roots.
The question is: How does one become a icchantika in the course of countless rebirths like the rest of us? There are people who killed parents in previous or present lifetimes, can they be considered as icchantikas?