Eckhart Tolle's books - The Power of Now, A New Earth, & ...

• An Eternal Now

  25 Apr 08, 19:44

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  i used to read a princaple for meditation ,the oringinal text is ��生妄念，但是有了妄念也��压制他，�缘。another teacher said ,有个人问佛学是���，那个和尚回答说。佛教�是��。一味的��会生病的。有�开心的事也需��泄。as my experience ,when you want to forget something miserable ,i cannot ,but when time flies.u will found that u can never retrieve the memory back.So i think don't suppress ur delusion.Let it found it's way out .So that u cannot keep thinking about it.I am not saying 纵欲.Because it's no good .but if a person want to 纵欲,u cannot say hi stop ,don't do that.Because this person is not mindful.

  It's hard to express.what i mean is that,if a person say i want to be enlightened .He cannot hardly be enlightened .Because it need cause and condition .in chines it's 因缘。And why buddha is superb,because he resort on joys,which is 清净法。For most ppl,it's very hard.I think joys is very important for learning buddhism,why buddhism is superior to secular doctrine because it's 无�法，and the ultimate good thing .

  You can never suppress your thoughts and experience, but you can gradually let go/drop these thoughts and experiences. The more you react to thoughts, the more you become affected and stirrs up the thoughts. It is through relaxing, not reacting to the thoughts, and letting the thoughts dissolve away by itself. No effort is needed just a mindful awareness of these thoughts and feelings and letting thoughts arise and dissolve away by itself without judgment, reaction, resistance/aversion. The nature of all experience is impermanence -- if we just let them be, they will dissolve/liberate by itself in itself.

  Also, the joy that Buddha teaches is very very different from worldly sensual joy. The joy that Buddha spoke of comes about only by totally letting go of attachments to all our thoughts and sense experience, which he says for example -- "There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal."

  When you have personally experienced such profound bliss and rapture that pervades your entire body (as I have experienced in meditation as well), you will know how a different mode of blissful experiencing is possible and you will gradually learn to drop all attachments to sense pleasures in your meditation.

  Withdrawal simply means letting go of all attachments to thoughts and sense perception, not being entangled by them. When you let go in such a way, you enter into a sublime state of bliss that is much more blissful than any worldly joy, or even sex. And that is merely the 1st jhana, the higher jhanas are more blissful. And even the jhanas are not ultimate, are mundane states -- and cannot be compared to the supramundane bliss of Nirvana, which the Buddha calls "the Highest Bliss."

• An Eternal Now

  25 Apr 08, 19:59

  There's something written about 'bliss' below --
  

  http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/07/spell-of-karmic-propensities.html
  

  The Spell of Karmic Propensities

  The following article is a summary (by me) of some of the conversations Thusness had with me on the topic of Karmic Propensities/Karmic Momentum/Deep Conditionings and how it blinds us and completely affects the way we see phenomena.
  
  Karmic Propensities is what blinded us from seeing the ultimate reality. Our entire mind is affected by karmic propensities such that our entire system of enquiry, even when we want to inquire on reality, we cannot know beyond "Who", "When", "What", "Where". Our mind is always thinking dualistically, in terms of subject and object (an I and a Not-I/an Observer apart from the Object of Observation, which cannot be found in reality). It is a momentum that cannot be located, yet it can be directly felt and experienced, and the momentum arises every moment and affect the entire way we see things. When we are affected by momentum the mind cannot know the ultimate reality (Emptiness).

  Because our momentum is at work, we will always assume a subject-object duality. That is, there is a Self, an Agent, and observer, doer, thinker of thoughts. A self that persists in time in a connected way... experiencing things... It blinds us into seeing self and objective world as 'entities', as 'things' with inherent existence, as a separate and permanent 'me'.

  So when momentum is in action, we cannot help but react with our karmic patterns. If we were to ask, "If you lost your shoe, are you still you?" or "If you lost your hands, do you still exist?". It almost seems certain to say "Yes, of course I am still I." because we always assumed there is a truly existing "Self" experiencing changes. This momentum can continue even after experiences of transcendental Presence, and distorting the experience.

  Dharma Dan calls the karmic propensities of seeing subject/object division, or a separate Agent that is the observer, the "fundamental knot of perception". (See: The Non-Duality Models of Enlightenment by Dharma Dan)

  Because it is our habit energy that made us think that way, we are so used to thinking in terms of subject object duality that it has become so deeply part of us, deeply imprinted into our consciousness.

  If we were to eliminate this bond, then we can begin to realise, there is no "Self". In reality, there is only Self1, Self2, Self3, moment to moment our mental and karmic factors arise spontaneously but not in a connected way. We are not a permanent self, we are momentary selves and nothing stays, everything is ever flowing. (Also see What is Self? and What Is The "Me"?)

  Without seeing things as 'entities', we can begin to realise the nature of Dependent Co-Arising, Conditionality, Interdependence, etc, i.e Emptiness. The nature is always so, but our karmic propensities obscure us from seeing the truth, distorting the way we see things, enquire things, and perceive things. It is this bond that bonds us life after life in Samsara.

  To eliminate the bond we have to feel it, feel the power of the bond, experience it. To eliminate the bond is a matter of insights, the insight into our true nature, the insight into self-liberation, etc. Not only must we eliminate the bond, we must be able to see how "Propensities" blinds us, and that is through naked awareness.

  How can naked awareness lead to the insight of our "Propensities"?

  Space, time, life, death, in and out are all ‘deeply held’ impressions. We are seldom aware of the “deeply held” until we are able to rest adequately in naked awareness. The nakedness creates the big contrast that provides us the condition for the arising of the insight of the 'deeply held'. The insight into the full power of our ‘propensities’ and resting in naked awareness are both equally crucial in our understanding of our non-dual (no subject-object duality, no separate permanently existing self) and non-local (emptiness of locality) nature.
  

   

  To consciousness 'propensities' (deep conditioning or imprints) are all that matters. It is the only 'force' that blinds, bonds and prevents a liberating experience. Once formed it remains latent and only surface when conditions are riped for fruition. We are unable to get rid of it by will. Therefore to know consciousness, it is also to know the impact of deep conditioning, how it is formed and how it subsides. There is really no 'why', it is just how consciousness works.
  
  If we drop our body, we experience astral body.
  If we drop our thoughts, we experience “I AM”.
  If we drop ‘I’, we experience non-duality.
  
  Every major dropping results in a totally new experiential reality. Perhaps that is why Lao Tze teaches us to eliminate until none to experience Tao.

  To drop the bondage/deep conditionings, the mind MUST realise that another way of 'knowing' is possible; an effortless, total sensing and experience of wholeness. Next the experiences of the joy, bliss and clarity of wholeness. Without the insight into the possiblity and the experience of the positive factors, the mind will not release itself from holding.
  
  Even open pure and innocent inquiry is a deep conditioning. Makes the mind chatters incessantly. Every what, when, where and why by itself is a distancing from start. Freeing itself from such mode of inquiry aka 'knowing', the mind rests. The joy of this resting must be experienced for the 'willingness' to arise. :)
  
  P.S. there are different types of meditative bliss/joy/rapture.
  
  Like samatha meditation, each jhana state represents a stage of bliss associated with certain level of concentration; the bliss experienced from insight into our nature differs.
  
  The happiness and pleasure experience by a dualistic mind is different from that experienced by a practitioner. “I AMness” is a higher form of happiness as compared to a dualistic mind that continuously chatters. It is a level of bliss associated with a state of ‘transcendence’ – a state of bliss resulting from the experience of “formlessness, odorless, colorless, attributeless and thoughtlessness’.
  
  

  No-self or non-dual is higher form of bliss resulted from the direct experience of Oneness and no-separation. It is related to the dropping of the ‘I’. When non-dual is free from perceptions, that bliss is a form transcendence-oneness. It is what Thusness called transparency of non-duality.
• rokkie

  26 Apr 08, 13:52

  Originally posted by cycle:

  
  Hi rokkie,

  I thought it was over...

  Your reply is actually unrelevant to what I had posted to u.

  I am absolutely not any better than you in Buddhdharma, but I think no matter how many concepts or knowlegde of dharma phrases or words we know, if we don't practise or study correctly enough from the revelant sources or teachers, they are just that:  merely words and phrases.  In fact, most of the time, we may even interpret them wrongly. This is dangerous. We may develope wrong views and wrong thoughts( 邪知邪è§�）without knowing. In this case. I think u don't really understand what u r saying by using all these phrases of dharma.

   I believe you r not a Buddhist, so if u r really interested to understand Buddhadharma properly, it is better to seek the correct route by either joining dharma classes, consulting dharma teachers, or reading dharma materials with explanations by teachers or masters.

  But of cos, most probably u wld say that u r apt enough to read up and analyse by yourself ( which most ppl think so too, as many of us have very deep 我�), so just take it as a suggestion from a forum friend. No offence. 让我们共勉之。

  let's forget about the tantra or kama sutra stuff ,anyway it's not relevant.

  And for you think it's too over, i don't agree,i didn't say anything over,if you think it's over ,it's because u posess different opinion.I am not good at logic,so if i say anything irrelevant please forgive me.
  and for the 邪知邪� u mentioned, u just scared me ,i never involved in such activities,or think that way,i think i have follow the mainstream buddhism ,which is diamond sutra ,platform sutra ,圆觉�，楞严�。i used to enjoy reading them ,but now i do not read a lot ,so i don't know whether i can categorize myself as a buddhist,and this forum don't have pre requisite ,that u must be a buddhist.

  What i go to this forum is to gain more insight on buddhism ,through debate and disscusion then i can enhance my experience on buddhism.So please do not set so many limitation ,first i did not violate the law ,second i did touch on the morally sensitive topic.So i did not find anything unapproriate i said.

  i categorize myself as a 善男�，or 善知识。i love go to temple when i was little.

• rokkie

  26 Apr 08, 14:00

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  You can never suppress your thoughts and experience, but you can gradually let go/drop these thoughts and experiences. The more you react to thoughts, the more you become affected and stirrs up the thoughts. It is through relaxing, not reacting to the thoughts, and letting the thoughts dissolve away by itself. No effort is needed just a mindful awareness of these thoughts and feelings and letting thoughts arise and dissolve away by itself without judgment, reaction, resistance/aversion. The nature of all experience is impermanence -- if we just let them be, they will dissolve/liberate by itself in itself.

  Also, the joy that Buddha teaches is very very different from worldly sensual joy. The joy that Buddha spoke of comes about only by totally letting go of attachments to all our thoughts and sense experience, which he says for example -- "There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters and remains in the first jhana: rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought and evaluation. He permeates and pervades, suffuses and fills this very body with the rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal. There is nothing of his entire body unpervaded by rapture and pleasure born from withdrawal."

  When you have personally experienced such profound bliss and rapture that pervades your entire body (as I have experienced in meditation as well), you will know how a different mode of blissful experiencing is possible and you will gradually learn to drop all attachments to sense pleasures in your meditation.

  Withdrawal simply means letting go of all attachments to thoughts and sense perception, not being entangled by them. When you let go in such a way, you enter into a sublime state of bliss that is much more blissful than any worldly joy, or even sex. And that is merely the 1st jhana, the higher jhanas are more blissful. And even the jhanas are not ultimate, are mundane states -- and cannot be compared to the supramundane bliss of Nirvana, which the Buddha calls "the Highest Bliss."

  
  for the joy thing i agree ,because when i used to read chinese buddhism sutra ,i find 欢喜 is mentioned  a lot ,ie.in å�Žä¸¥ç»�，å��地å“�，有一å“�，就是欢喜地。and i cannot find an equal word in english ,so i choose joy.I think joy is higher than pleasure.i think ppl practice buddhism because of ultimate joy or bliss.If a person practice buddhism ,but didnot experience joy or bliss , i think it's either waste time for buddhism teaching or himself.I turely respect buddhism,as å�—怀瑾，said ,it's ultimate resort and it's complet than anyother teaching ,confucius is 人本ä½�，it look at the world from human point of view,and it will not exceed human.taoism also emphasize on empty or nil .but it's just some fundanmental theory,not so complete .buddhism have complete doctrines,system.

   

• An Eternal Now

  26 Apr 08, 15:04

  To keep our mind free from defilement under all circumstances is called wu-nien (nonconceptuality). Our mind should stand aloof from circumstances, and on no account should we allow them to influence the function of our mind. But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking; for even if we succeed in getting rid of all thoughts, and die immediately thereafter, still we shall be reincarnated elsewhere. Mark this, treaders of the Path. It is bad enough for a man to commit blunders from not knowing the meaning of the dharma, but how much worse would it be to encourage others to follow suit? Being deluded, he sees not, and in addition he blasphemes the Buddhist Canon. Therefore we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as our object.
  
  Learned audience, let me explain more fully why we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as our object. It is because there is a type of man under delusion who boasts of the realization of the Essence of mind; however, being carried away by circumstances, thoughts rise in his mind, followed by erroneous views which are the source of all sorts of false notions and defilements. In the Essence of mind (which is the embodiment of voidness) there is intrinsically nothing to be attained. To say that there is attainment, and to talk thoughtlessly on merits or demerits are erroneous views and defilements. For this reason we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as the object of our school.
  
  Learned audience, (in order to find ourselves in wu-nien) what should we get rid of and what should we keep our awareness on? We should get rid of the ‘pairs of opposites’ and all defiling conceptions. We should maintain awareness of the true nature of tathata, for tathata is the true essence and nature of thought, and thoughts are but the result of the activity of tathata.

  ~ Ch'an Patriarch Hui-Neng

• rokkie

  26 Apr 08, 15:13

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  <!--QuoteEBegin-->To keep our mind free from defilement under all circumstances is called wu-nien (nonconceptuality). Our mind should stand aloof from circumstances, and on no account should we allow them to influence the function of our mind. But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking; for even if we succeed in getting rid of all thoughts, and die immediately thereafter, still we shall be reincarnated elsewhere. Mark this, treaders of the Path. It is bad enough for a man to commit blunders from not knowing the meaning of the dharma, but how much worse would it be to encourage others to follow suit? Being deluded, he sees not, and in addition he blasphemes the Buddhist Canon. Therefore we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as our object.
  
  Learned audience, let me explain more fully why we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as our object. It is because there is a type of man under delusion who boasts of the realization of the Essence of mind; however, being carried away by circumstances, thoughts rise in his mind, followed by erroneous views which are the source of all sorts of false notions and defilements. In the Essence of mind (which is the embodiment of voidness) there is intrinsically nothing to be attained. To say that there is attainment, and to talk thoughtlessly on merits or demerits are erroneous views and defilements. For this reason we take wu-nien (non-conceptuality) as the object of our school.
  
  Learned audience, (in order to find ourselves in wu-nien) what should we get rid of and what should we keep our awareness on? We should get rid of the ‘pairs of opposites’ and all defiling conceptions. We should maintain awareness of the true nature of tathata, for tathata is the true essence and nature of thought, and thoughts are but the result of the activity of tathata.

  ~ Ch'an Patriarch Hui-Neng

  agree.

  But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking

  suppress all thinking ,the person must be dead.And this is categorized as one of the four ,zen sickness.作 任 止 �.i think what u said is 止。

   

  一者作病，�生心造作也，彼自谓我当著�勤求，��作为，如造塔修庙，供养佛僧，止�山林，讲��咒，以为功德，如此�圆觉云云，执此专�，便�大病，彼�知圆觉自性，本体圆明，�因造作而契，毋庸兴心求益，�歇心处，��圆觉，觉�妄尽，妄尽性自开明，今特�造作，故�为病。
  　　二者任病，�任�浮沉也，彼自谓涅槃生死，既是本寂，何必修求，正�必厌�而求断，亦�必忻慕而勤求，大��诸法性，一任自然，便是圆觉云云，执此��，放任为病，彼�知圆觉性，本体虽寂，�放任所��得，在未�正觉以�，尚是幻力幻�，未悟以�，正属迷人，如亦善��分，无记�空，则身心放纵，常居幻化，故�为病。
  　　三者止病，�止�忘情也，彼自谓烦�颠倒，起由心念，我若无心止念，�立诸相，妄自无起，故当永�诸念，性自寂然平等，妄止�圆觉矣云云，执此断�，便�为病，彼�知圆觉性，本体�明，�无�有，���止，故�云，于诸妄心，亦���也，若压止令�，正�觉性，故�为病。
  　　四者�病，��除心境也，彼自谓身心毕竟无所有，身心为烦�之本，欲断烦�，先断身心，诸相皆泯，一切永寂，则觉性之寂相自现云云，执此��，便�为病，彼�知圆觉者，�动��，�明之体，无实无虚，若�于寂，���寂，与�相乖，何能契�，故��执为实有一寂相而妄求之也，故�为病。

• An Eternal Now

  26 Apr 08, 15:57

  Yes.. and neither should we become conditioned by them or distracted by the thoughts. To become conditioned by them, we are led to create various karma that leads to the transmigration in the 6 realms. But recognise them for their true condition -- the activity of our true nature, clarity-emptiness in essence.

  ---------------

  ...The second consideration concerns the instructions for relaxing alertly with presence (lug-pa'i man-ngag). The usual term for being relaxed is glod-pa or lhod-pa. However, we can be relaxed and yet be drowsy. The term lhug-pa means being relaxed, but alert and present. Thus, being alertly relaxed (lhug-pa), whenever appearances arise, in whatever fashion they may arise, then without the mind making any corrections or modifications of them, they are seen to exist as mere ornaments or embellishments of that state itself (rgyan gyi ngang-nyid) which is the real condition of existence (chos-nyid). In the Dzogchen Upadsa, there is the practice of leaving vision just as it is (snang-ba'i co-bzhag). We do not enter into reasoning or into altering it with judgments. Thus, whenever appearances arise, they are left just as they are, and they in turn in no way condition the individual. These appearances (snang-ba) are like ornaments (rgyan) of the individual's energy (rtsal). The individual finds himself in the true condition of the mirror. Anything which arises as an appearance is like the rising of a reflection in a mirror. These reflections, whether beautiful or ugly, in no way condition the mirror. Therefore, whatever arises creates no problems for the individual. As the Master Phadampa said: "The individual is not conditioned by appearances but his attachment to appearances; this attachment originates within the individual and not in the object." Internally, there exists a state of pure presence (rig-pa), which is uncorrected, clear, vivid, and naked (ma bcos sal hrig rjen-ne-ba). It is uncorrected and unmodified (ma bcos-pa) because it is unconditioned by discursive thoughts or the working of the mind. "Naked" (rjen-ne-ba) means that, in the instant when thought arises, we relax them into their own condition such as it is in itself (de-bzhin-nyid du rang sar glod-pa).

  .

  .

  .

  ......When we are not in the state of Rigpa, the passions become poisons; since they interrupt and hinder our realization, they are called demons (bdud). They compel us to continue in transmigration. If we chase after a discursive thought and enter into mental activity, this thought may become a poison for us. In this way, we become a slave to our passion. But if we remain present, we will not be conditioned by our thoughts in any way and whatever arises will be merely like a reflection in a mirror. Thus, we need not apply some antidote to block the passion because the passion will self-liberate of itself. We are not even speaking here of gcer-grol, liberation through bare attention, that is to say, when we look into the face of a discursive thought which arises in the mind and it self-liberates. This procedure still involves some kind of effort. But this is not what we are speaking of here. The term lhug-pa means to relax with awareness. If we feel some passion arising, we then relax that passion without attempting to block it or trying to apply some antidote to it. We are not succumbing to the passion; it is simply that now the passion is governed by our awareness of presence (rig-pa). With this relaxed presence, our passions themselves become merely the inherent qualities of our primordial state manifesting themselves. This is the method for self-liberating the passions.

  ~ Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

  --------------------

  This is as Hui-Neng says, We should maintain awareness of the true nature of tathata, for tathata is the true essence and nature of thought, and thoughts are but the result of the activity of tathata.

• cycle

  27 Apr 08, 17:45

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  let's forget about the tantra or kama sutra stuff ,anyway it's not relevant.

  And for you think it's too over, i don't agree,i didn't say anything over,if you think it's over ,it's because u posess different opinion.I am not good at logic,so if i say anything irrelevant please forgive me.
  and for the 邪知邪� u mentioned, u just scared me ,i never involved in such activities,or think that way,i think i have follow the mainstream buddhism ,which is diamond sutra ,platform sutra ,圆觉�，楞严�。i used to enjoy reading them ,but now i do not read a lot ,so i don't know whether i can categorize myself as a buddhist,and this forum don't have pre requisite ,that u must be a buddhist.

  What i go to this forum is to gain more insight on buddhism ,through debate and disscusion then i can enhance my experience on buddhism.So please do not set so many limitation ,first i did not violate the law ,second i did touch on the morally sensitive topic.So i did not find anything unapproriate i said.

  i categorize myself as a 善男�，or 善知识。i love go to temple when i was little.

  Hi rokkie,

  Oh no, this is getting comical... I mean we r like a duck and a chicken talking to each other( 鸡�鸭讲）。 Or should I say a duck and a chicken looking at each other, well, sheepishly.

  No lah, I'm not saying you are over( 过ç�«ï¼Œè¿‡åˆ†ï¼‰ in your comments, I'm saying that I thought our exchanges was over, as in done, finished, the end, no more and move on(结æ�Ÿï¼Œå®Œç»“). 

  I'm not a judge or a moral police. I just wish to point out that certain idea, phrase or words of dharma may have been used inappropriately  if we don't understand enough correctly, that's why I used Master Sheng yan article posted earlier. I'm not that wise to correct you in any way. I just hope you would go through the proper way of aquring Buddhadharma, which I feel is a pity if you don't as you r a smart young person. If you are well learned or better still, practise the way, you would be able to help more ppl in your cohort.

  No no, no laws was broken, so don't get so worked up. But I understand that such things do happened when a duck and a chicken comunicate with each other. Sorry for being a duck. 

  About being a Buddhist or not, I was trying to point out  that being a non- Buddhist, many times Dharma words or terms may be interpreted wrongly. So again, I was hoping that u would build a good foundation through the proper route suggested. Thats's all. I can only point it out, but the details I am not capable of explaining; this would need the moderators' help. And we all ( including anyone reading this) can learn.

  Ok, for example, you said you are a 善知识； actually according to 佛学长è§�è¯�汇，（ 由法师鉴定）：善知识指信解佛法而å�ˆå­¦é—®æ¸Šå�šçš„人。 So frankly speaking, very seldom one would categorised oneself as such. And about å–„ç”·å­�，it is more than just 信佛的男人。 This maybe i would post an excerpt from master ching kong another day( now no time), he specifically touch on this term in detail as he realise many ppl, including Buddhists, misintepret this term as well.

  OK got to go. Don't angry. Friend, friend. Or maybe I should say: let us be 善� 。

  ps. oh, and actually, I didin't talk abt tantra or kama sutra also.

• rokkie

  27 Apr 08, 18:05

  Originally posted by cycle:

  Hi rokkie,

  Oh no, this is getting comical... I mean we r like a duck and a chicken talking to each other( 鸡�鸭讲）。 Or should I say a duck and a chicken looking at each other, well, sheepishly.

  No lah, I'm not saying you are over( 过ç�«ï¼Œè¿‡åˆ†ï¼‰ in your comments, I'm saying that I thought our exchanges was over, as in done, finished, the end, no more and move on(结æ�Ÿï¼Œå®Œç»“). 

  I'm not a judge or a moral police. I just wish to point out that certain idea, phrase or words of dharma may have been used inappropriately  if we don't understand enough correctly, that's why I used Master Sheng yan article posted earlier. I'm not that wise to correct you in any way. I just hope you would go through the proper way of aquring Buddhadharma, which I feel is a pity if you don't as you r a smart young person. If you are well learned or better still, practise the way, you would be able to help more ppl in your cohort.

  No no, no laws was broken, so don't get so worked up. But I understand that such things do happened when a duck and a chicken comunicate with each other. Sorry for being a duck. 

  About being a Buddhist or not, I was trying to point out  that being a non- Buddhist, many times Dharma words or terms may be interpreted wrongly. So again, I was hoping that u would build a good foundation through the proper route suggested. Thats's all. I can only point it out, but the details I am not capable of explaining; this would need the moderators' help. And we all ( including anyone reading this) can learn.

  Ok, for example, you said you are a 善知识； actually according to 佛学长è§�è¯�汇，（ 由法师鉴定）：善知识指信解佛法而å�ˆå­¦é—®æ¸Šå�šçš„人。 So frankly speaking, very seldom one would categorised oneself as such. And about å–„ç”·å­�，it is more than just 信佛的男人。 This maybe i would post an excerpt from master ching kong another day( now no time), he specifically touch on this term in detail as he realise many ppl, including Buddhists, misintepret this term as well.

  OK got to go. Don't angry. Friend, friend. Or maybe I should say: let us be 善� 。

  ps. oh, and actually, I didin't talk abt tantra or kama sutra also.

   Don't angry. Friend, friend. Or maybe I should say: let us be å–„å�‹ 。

   

  agree.

• rokkie

  27 Apr 08, 18:07

  Originally posted by rokkie:

   Don't angry. Friend, friend. Or maybe I should say: let us be å–„å�‹ 。

   

   

   agree.i think there must be some misunderstanding going on, basically we r all good person.should be  no more confrontation