How does someone know when he/she has become an arhat?
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A student asked me this question in class recently, and I didn't give a very good answer. Are there any Buddhist practitioners who might have an answer I can pass along to my student? Thank you.
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First of all, you may need to understand the term Arhat in buddhist context. I do not think anyone of us can tell you, how do see another person who has attain these level, Arhat has already gain enlightenment to a certain level and he does not go through anymore rebirth or reincarnation. There are a few more levels above an Arhat, the highest level is Buddha.
I think you should explain to him the term arhat, and tell him, you are only a human where you cant determind someone who has already left the six releam(reincarnation), as we human still fall in the six releam whereas an Arhat has attain enlightenment and no more in the six releam.
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wats arhat?
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Arhathood is a practise in Theravada Buddhism, and in Mahayana Buddhism they practise Bodhisavatta, but all in all they follow Buddha teaching, which is to gain enlightenment and leave reincarnation. If you are a newbie in buddhism, there would be a lot of termilogy pretty strange to you.
In layman term, An Arhat is a person who has attained enlightenment, and he will not go through anymore rebirth, and continue his practise to acheive buddhahood.
You may read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arhat
and
The Bodhisattva Ideal In Theravaada
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Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
Arhathood is a practise in Theravada Buddhism, and in Mahayana Buddhism they practise Bodhisavatta, but all in all they follow Buddha teaching, which is to gain enlightenment and leave reincarnation. If you are a newbie in buddhism, there would be a lot of termilogy pretty strange to you.
In layman term, An Arhat is a person who has attained enlightenment, and he will not go through anymore rebirth, and continue his practise to acheive buddhahood.
You may read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arhat
and
The Bodhisattva Ideal In Theravaada
You're right -- Arhat is one who has attained enlightenment to the true nature of reality and gained personal liberation from Samsara, from Sufferings, from the cycle of rebirth.
But unlike a Buddha or Bodhisattva he does not have the vow or will to guide all sentient beings or attain Buddhahood for the sake of all sentient beings.
It is not necessary that an Arhat will continue to practice the Bodhisattva path after attaining Arhatship -- most of them simply enter into their personal nirvana (cessation), for a very very long time, for aeons, until a Buddha wakes him up from his cessation to continue the Bodhisattva path. But it will take a very very long time.
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sorry if i ask this.. but how can we be so sure if the ways to become arhat is really the right way? im not much of a believer in existence of God.. more accurately, i dont know if God really exist rather than not to believe.
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
A student asked me this question in class recently, and I didn't give a very good answer. Are there any Buddhist practitioners who might have an answer I can pass along to my student? Thank you.
If an Arhat has become enlightened, he will know he has become enlightened. Why? Because he has awakened to the ultimate nature of reality, he is not at all deluded anymore by the illusion of a "Self", he perceives reality as it really is without doubts. He becomes freed from all sufferings.
You may use the analogy that all of us is in a sleep -- we are in a nightmare, we think that there is a "self" and a tiger or murderer chasing us, and we are suffering in this dream. Someone who has awakened/liberated sees that the dream character "self" and the "murderer" is unreal, so he does not suffer, because he no longer perceives the delusion of separation and inherent existence of a "self". When you woke up, you won't doubt whether you are awake or asleep.
He becomes freed from the 10 fetters, which is roughly this:
- sensuous craving,
- ill-will,
- conceit,
- wrong views,
- sceptical doubt,
- clinging to mere rules and ritual,
- craving for existence,
- envy,
- stinginess,
- ignorance.
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Originally posted by Zarks:
sorry if i ask this.. but how can we be so sure if the ways to become arhat is really the right way? im not much of a believer in existence of God.. more accurately, i dont know if God really exist rather than not to believe.
Hi Zarks, in Buddhism we do not believe in a God. We do not believe in a Creator. How do we know becoming Arhat is the right way? I think first of all you must have the right understanding of what an enlightened being is, why we should seek to be enlightened. You may want to learn about what the 4 Noble Truths is, this will give you a better idea of why the path to Liberation is so important. You may want to read this: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html
Regarding God does not exist in Buddhism, I have posted this before regarding Buddhism and God:
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First of all Buddhism does not accept the Judeo-Christian or other theistic religions' idea that there is a personal Creator, means the Old Testament kind of God that has a personality of its own.. and you can actually meet him up for coffee Mr. Green. If there is a personal Creator it brings a lot of questions into mind. Therefore, Albert Einstein supposedly said (though whether he really said it I do not know),
"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity"
and..
“If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.”
Regarding the question of Personal God in Buddhism,Quote:
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Slightly edited from the first topic in our forum regarding Creationism: How the Brahma believed He was God?
In Buddha's days there were many many different teachings, one popular one was Brahmanism. In fact the Brahma was still worshipped nowadays. Brahma was known to be "The Supreme One, the All-mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of All".
In Buddhism, the Mahabrahma resides in the 1st Jhana plane, the first plane among the 8 jhanic planes. There were higher realms above where he lives that he was unaware of, and above it all, beyond the 8 Jhanic planes and all Samsaric planes, is Nirvana. Nevertheless all the devas below the 1st Jhana planes considered him as the Creator God. Buddha did not subscribe to the belief of such a notion that the Universe and its Inhabitants were the Creation of the Mahabrahma. He met with the Brahma, asked him questions which he could not answer. Eventually he has taken refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.
The Buddha was also known to have said this,
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he, (O Aritta)
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!
When the previous universe was destroyed and this universe was formed, the Mahabrahma was first to be reborn. Other subsequent brahmas/devas were to be reborn.
'On this, brethren, the one who was first reborn thinks thus to himself: " I am Brahmà, the Great Brahmà, the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all, appointing to each his place, the Ancient of days the Father of all that are and are to be. 'These other beings are of my creation. And why is that so? A while ago I thought, 'Would that they might come!' And on my mental aspiration, behold the beings came." DN 1 2:5
In reality, the universe works by the law of Karma and he has no control over the system of karma.
The Venerable Ledi Sayadaw, a highly renowned Myanmar scholar-monk of the first part of this century, gave a careful analysis of the powers of Maha Brahma in his Niyama Dipani (MB pp. 138-39). He states that although Maha Brahma can perform all sorts of transformations, he cannot actually create independent creatures, change the kammic law of cause and effect, or keep anyone from growing old or dying. Brahma can use his special powers to transport a man to the brahma plane for a short visit, but he cannot ensure that someone will be reborn there.
from http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no3f.htm:
When he came to know about Sakyamuni Buddha in the human world who speaks of the universal truth, he was curious and arrived at the human world with the intention to debate with the Buddha. The Buddha, with his ability to know another's mind, knew his intention and asked, "You claim to be the creator of the human race and all things in the universe, is this a fact?"
The king replied, "Yes, it is."
Buddha continued to question him, "Since you created life, why did you also create death? Is death created by you too?"
The king paused for while, and thinking that everyone loves life and nobody welcomes death, he replied, "I did not create death."
Buddha asked him again, "All human beings experience sickness, did you create sickness also?" The king knew that nobody likes to be ill, and he replied, "I did not create illness."
Buddha asked many questions in succession, but the king denied that he created them. Eventually, he admitted that he did not create the universe and all things in it, and certainly not the human race. The king of heavens was full of regrets and he felt ashamed. Finally, he accepted Buddha as his teacher and invited Him to spread the Dharma in the heavens.
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-library/whybuddhism2.html
"To those who talked about the first cause of this world, the Buddha responded by saying that it is impossible to find a first cause since everything is changing, interdependent and conditioned by other things. Something that acts as the cause in the present may become the effect in the future. Later that same effect may again become the cause. Such phenomenon continues ad infinitum. It is called the universal law of Anicca or impermanency.”
However, Buddhism is largely Agnostic rather than Atheist. We believe that pondering over such things brings no benefits at all to our spiritual practice, enlightenment, and liberation from samsara.
Kinds of speech to be avoided by contemplatives
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these -- talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not -- he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to debates such as these -- 'You understand this doctrine and discipline? I'm the one who understands this doctrine and discipline. How could you understand this doctrine and discipline? You're practicing wrongly. I'm practicing rightly. I'm being consistent. You're not. What should be said first you said last. What should be said last you said first. What you took so long to think out has been refuted. Your doctrine has been overthrown. You're defeated. Go and try to salvage your doctrine; extricate yourself if you can!' -- he abstains from debates such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
-- DN 2
Ten wholesome topics of conversation
"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten? Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement, on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful -- to say nothing of the wanderers of other sects."
-- AN X.69
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"Malunkhyaputta Sutta stresses that whether the universe was created or uncreated, finite or infinite, is irrelevant to our main spiritual concerns: the cause and cessation of suffering:
"Therefore Malunkhyaputta, bear the undeclared as undeclared. Malunkhyaputta, what are the not declared? The world is eternal, is not declared by me. The world is not eternal, is not declared by me. They are not essential for the principles of the holy life, they do not lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, what are the declared by me? This, is unpleasant, is declared. This, is its arising, is declared. This, is its cessation is declared. This is the path to its cessation, is declared. Malunkhyaputta, why are these declared by me? These are the essentials for the principles of the holy life; they lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, I declare them." MN 64"
Therefore in Buddhism, the question of God is irrelevant and not given importance. Instead, like a scientist, the Buddha encouraged the Buddhist practitioners to find out for themselves the truths that the Buddha said, to put it to test, and to see for ourselves, and to get enlightened. Buddhism does not encourage any blind belief and dogmas (see Kalama Sutra), and also encourages analytical questioning -- whether this teaching actually helps us.Quote:
Kalama Sutra
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
Note: this is just a summary, please read the entire sutra here: http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/kalama_sutra.htm l
There are countless enlightened persons from Buddha's times till today, some of them even posting in this forum (not me), who have awakened to the ultimate reality and seen for themselves the truths that the Buddha taught. Beliefs in divine etc are not important and irrelevant in Buddhism, Buddhism being a man-centered (means having great love and compassion for all sentient being, as well as to practise for one's own spiritual development) rather than God-centered teaching, which is a reason why it is the only religion that does not have a history of having fought religious wars, --Quote:
No fanaticism
Of Buddhism alone can it be affirmed it is free from all fanaticism. Its aim being to produce in every man a thorough internal transforming by self-conquest, how can it have recourse to might or money or even persuasion for effecting conversion? The Buddha has only shown the way to salvation, and it is left to each individual to decide for himself if he would follow it.
- Prof. Lakshmi Narasu, "The Essence of Buddhism" -
Originally posted by Zeke0:
A student asked me this question in class recently, and I didn't give a very good answer. Are there any Buddhist practitioners who might have an answer I can pass along to my student? Thank you.
Just curious, what level are you teaching? (primary, secondary, or what)
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I appreciate all the posts on this. Please note that I wasn't asking for a definition of arhat, or for general teachings on Buddhism, etc.... the question was very specific. How does a practitioner recognize when he or she has become an arhat?
Someone asks what level I'm teaching. I'm an American university professor teaching undergraduates typically ranging in age from 18 to 23.
Thank you.
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
I appreciate all the posts on this. Please note that I wasn't asking for a definition of arhat, or for general teachings on Buddhism, etc.... the question was very specific. How does a practitioner recognize when he or she has become an arhat?
Someone asks what level I'm teaching. I'm an American university professor teaching undergraduates typically ranging in age from 18 to 23.
Thank you.
A practitioner recognises he or she has become an arhat when every trace of illusion of self as I mentioned earlier.. has been seen through by realisation, removed. This happens when there is a sudden quantum shift in perception of reality, it is like waking up from a dream of separation to perceive reality as it is. There can be no doubts in this, just like there can be no doubts when you woke up that you are awake and no longer asleep.
Other specific signs may include the removal of the 10 fetters which I mentioned earlier. But the most important factor is the Insight which I mentioned above -- otherwise one may just delude himself to think that he no longer has 'craving', 'ill-will', 'conceit' and so on when in reality he is still pretty much a deluded samsaric person.
BTW you're from U.S.? Cool :) most of us here are Singaporeans, we don't often get overseas visitors...
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- Arahatship designates an understanding that has the following characteristics:
- The arahat has seen through the sense that there is a continuous, separate, or special controller, doer, observer, or centerpoint that is "who they are" in a very direct perceptual way that is not merely an intellectual or conceptual understanding.
- They know the sensations that seemed to imply these to be just more sensations arising and vanishing according to conditions as they always have been.
- This is not something they have to work to maintain, but instead is something that has stopped.
- The arahat knows in real time and directly what is meant by such phrases and concepts as:
- "in the thinking is only the thought, in the seeing is only the seen, etc."
- intrinsic luminosity
- the emptiness of phenomena
- that Nibbana is found in Samsara
- and a whole host of other poetic metaphors and attempts as description.
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Eternal Now,
Care to post the article on the brahma in bodhi hut forum under basic buddhism..thanks..it would be useful...
How does a practitioner recognize when he or she has become an arhat?
I would like to answer you in my own thoughts, based on doctorines or sutra, we only can get some insight of a person relisation of becoming an Arhat, but what is the relisation mind at the point of time when one become an Arhat, it is an answerable answer, as I have really gotto become one then I would know, as I believe each Arhat will experience different kind of relisation.
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in one word ,人��佛�
anyone help to translate this into english?
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
I appreciate all the posts on this. Please note that I wasn't asking for a definition of arhat, or for general teachings on Buddhism, etc.... the question was very specific. How does a practitioner recognize when he or she has become an arhat?
Someone asks what level I'm teaching. I'm an American university professor teaching undergraduates typically ranging in age from 18 to 23.
Thank you.
Why should the practitioner wants to be recognized as an arhat. They should concern about the understanding of buddhism and attaining enlightenment. "With great power, comes great responsibility."
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Originally posted by rokkie:
in one word ,人��佛�
anyone help to translate this into english?
Never heard of this.. where you heard this?
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Thanks very much, Eternal Now, for the response on arhats... I will take this answer to my class and share it with them. I teach about Buddhism but do not practice Buddhism myself, so sometimes I get questions like this that I feel I would be better able to answer if I were a practitioner. It's nice to have this forum to come to.
By the way:
Someone asked how to translate 人��佛�
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anyone help to translate this into english?
This would translate as "When a person is formed, then a Buddha is formed too." (One might choose another verb than "formed," like "comes to completion" or "is made," but the sense would be similar.)
Thanks again.
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Originally posted by dragon_stone:
Why should the practitioner wants to be recognized as an arhat. They should concern about the understanding of buddhism and attaining enlightenment. "With great power, comes great responsibility."
Its not about recognition..its about the level of enlightenment..its only a term given..so I do not think it is important at all..."With great power, comes great responsibility."--------Spider Man?
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
Thanks very much, Eternal Now, for the response on arhats... I will take this answer to my class and share it with them. I teach about Buddhism but do not practice Buddhism myself, so sometimes I get questions like this that I feel I would be better able to answer if I were a practitioner. It's nice to have this forum to come to.
By the way:
Someone asked how to translate 人��佛�
-
anyone help to translate this into english?
This would translate as "When a person is formed, then a Buddha is formed too." (One might choose another verb than "formed," like "comes to completion" or "is made," but the sense would be similar.)
Thanks again.
Oh cool... and you know Chinese too? You're staying in Singapore or the U.S.? What kind of class are you teaching?
Btw you're Christian?
Sorry for asking so many questions.. LOL
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Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
"With great power, comes great responsibility."--------Spider Man?
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I'm in the U.S. but have visited Singapore and hope to do so again... maybe next year.
And no, I'm not a Christian... used to be, but gave it up a long time ago. Now I'm just basically a middle-aged professor on the west coast of the U.S. hoping that just being a human being will be enough. :-) If it's true that �人��佛 then maybe there is hope for me. :-)
What about you?
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
I'm in the U.S. but have visited Singapore and hope to do so again... maybe next year.
And no, I'm not a Christian... used to be, but gave it up a long time ago. Now I'm just basically a middle-aged professor on the west coast of the U.S. hoping that just being a human being will be enough. :-) If it's true that �人��佛 then maybe there is hope for me. :-)
What about you?
Dear Zeke , how do you gauge a person is an arhat ?Throwing aside all the definition as definition by An Eternal Now and Bodhi Hut ,do you think there is something "attainable" in the spiritual dimension ?Arhat have already overcome the concept of self, thus no mental sufferings .
But his residual habitual action still persist .Sariputra still dance in front of the assembly of monks when Deva start playing their heavenly music .Its such an embarassing sight , but Buddha points out its due to his 500 births in the deva as a result
Maugdylana chided a river goddess to ask her to let him cross ,the river goddess is insulted as he mentioned "little fairy" ,which Buddha pointed out to the assembly he was once a heavenly general ,thus the habitual actions
I hope that helps you in the answer .If Buddhism is a religion that can be gauged ,I am afraid we are all mundane
Spiritual level is something that cannot be explained with simple scientific formulae ,experiment to replicate or re-enact.
It must be totally Clarity of Mind and severing the notion of "I"
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人��佛�
is from the Words of Venerable Tai Hsu on Buddhism
He expounded the humanistic views of Buddhism ,including the lifestory of Buddha ,as an answer to the challenge in the fast growing science circle in China during republican China 1911-1944s
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Thank you. Yes, I realize it's very hard to gauge... nevertheless, my student had this question, so I wanted to give her some sort of answer, even if unsatisfactory.
Those are lovely scriptural passages you mention. The "klesas" leave a deep imprint on us, indeed!
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Originally posted by Zeke0:
Thank you. Yes, I realize it's very hard to gauge... nevertheless, my student had this question, so I wanted to give her some sort of answer, even if unsatisfactory.
Those are lovely scriptural passages you mention. The "klesas" leave a deep imprint on us, indeed!
You remind me of my teacher in my school time ,that guy is westerner as well ,good and knowledgable person.It's a religion course ,but at that time i don't quite know religion well,so cannot communicate so much with the teacher.I think there r different thing between eastern and western methedology towards religion ,western is more organised ,systermatic,as westerner r more rational.
easterner r more irrational ,sentimental.So buddhist never persuade people to believe in buddhism ,it just teach ,help ppl solve the problem ,christian is more enthusiastic engaging in building hospital ,run a charity show.
westerner r more proactive,assertive, but chinese ,as by the teaching of è€�å�。ä¸�敢为天下先which means don't dare to be the first ,is more humble.
bless u
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