How does someone know when he/she has become an arhat?

• Hello Kitty

  29 Mar 08, 16:16

  haha, seriously, i'm awed.

  pardon my ignorance if this is rather common.

  but to preach yet not to practise, you must have had a passion somewhere to keep you going.

   

• An Eternal Now

  29 Mar 08, 16:38

  Originally posted by Zeke0:

   

  Those are lovely scriptural passages you mention.  The "klesas" leave a deep imprint on us, indeed!

  Hi, Arhats have removed all Kleshas (afflictions and defilements), but non-afflictive ignorance and habitual tendencies may remain. Only Buddhas have totally removed these.

• An Eternal Now

  29 Mar 08, 16:51

  Originally posted by Zeke0:

  I'm in the U.S. but have visited Singapore and hope to do so again... maybe next year.

  And no, I'm not a Christian... used to be, but gave it up a long time ago.  Now I'm just basically a middle-aged professor on the west coast of the U.S. hoping that just being a human being will be enough.  :-)  If it's true that æˆ�人å�³æˆ�ä½› then maybe there is hope for me.  :-)

  What about you?

  I see... I think it's amazing you know Chinese as well... btw I'm 18 so I'm eligible to attend your class What class are you teaching?

  Regarding the "cheng ren ji cheng fo" as Bohiruci suggested, is probably refering to something like attaining Buddhahood through a humanistic way and as a human.

  This is also rather similar to my Master's teachings, which emphasize teaching Buddhism in a way that is relevant and applicable for all human beings that might bring true bliss, awareness and liberation in our lives. http://www.jenchen.org.sg

  We practice Buddhism because we want to live as an awakened, blissful, liberated, compassionate, wise human being. You may like to look into how we can practice Buddhism in our daily lives.

   

• bohiruci

  29 Mar 08, 20:52

  Originally posted by Hello Kitty:

  haha, seriously, i'm awed.

  pardon my ignorance if this is rather common.

  but to preach yet not to practise, you must have had a passion somewhere to keep you going.

   

  ------------

   

• Bodhi hut

  30 Mar 08, 13:37

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  
  easterner r more irrational ,sentimental.So buddhist never persuade people to believe in buddhism ,it just teach ,help ppl solve the problem ,christian is more enthusiastic engaging in building hospital ,run a charity show.

  westerner r more proactive,assertive, but chinese ,as by the teaching of ��。�敢为天下先which means don't dare to be the first ,is more humble.

  bless u

   

  Buddhism does help out other needy..and it does build hospital and charity show..ä»�慈医院..but Buddhist believe in éš�缘 and 平常心...as everything could not be force...only can encourage and not influence....How a religion is being perceive is greatly by the behaviour of the believer and the practioner....

   

   

• Zeke0

  30 Mar 08, 15:08

  Yes, Hello Kitty, I do indeed have a serious passion in me to keep me going.  Actually, many times I'm amazed and grateful that I'm paid to do what I do for a living, because it's so much fun for me and so rewarding.  Research is, too!  I've published a couple of books on aspects of the history of religions in China (pre-Tang period) and have another one coming out next year.

  Someone else on here asked what course I'm teaching.  This question about arhats came up in the context of a freshman-level class called simply Religions of China.  Sometimes I teach more specialized, upper level courses.

  Thanks to everyone who has posted in this topic... it's been nice for me to read what you all had to say, and very informative.

• rokkie

  30 Mar 08, 15:41

  Originally posted by Bodhi hut:

   

  
  agree

• rokkie

  30 Mar 08, 15:44

  Originally posted by Zeke0:

  Yes, Hello Kitty, I do indeed have a serious passion in me to keep me going.  Actually, many times I'm amazed and grateful that I'm paid to do what I do for a living, because it's so much fun for me and so rewarding.  Research is, too!  I've published a couple of books on aspects of the history of religions in China (pre-Tang period) and have another one coming out next year.

  Someone else on here asked what course I'm teaching.  This question about arhats came up in the context of a freshman-level class called simply Religions of China.  Sometimes I teach more specialized, upper level courses.

  Thanks to everyone who has posted in this topic... it's been nice for me to read what you all had to say, and very informative.

  
  china's pure religion is only Taoism ,it's debative that whether confusius is religion or not .Buddhism in china originate from india.

• justdoit77

  31 Mar 08, 18:29

  hi zeke0

  welcome to this forum. :)
  I agree with what other forummers has said.
  When one become Arhat, he will know, there is no need to ask around if he has attained arhatship.
  One way to measure is if one has realised emptiness, then within at most few more life times, he will attain arhatship.
  It is good that your student ask you this question, there are people who practice alone 1, after attaining some achievement, think that he has attained arhatship then making falsehood by telling people that he is enlightened. That is a very serious bad karma.

• Bodhi hut

  31 Mar 08, 21:14

  ""It is good that your student ask you this question, there are people who practice alone 1, after attaining some achievement, think that he has attained arhatship then making falsehood by telling people that he is enlightened. That is a very serious bad karma.:"""

   

  If the person has attain arhatship..he will not be in our diemension.....and telling people he has become arhat...regardless what religion we are practising, we should hold a benevolence and modest heart...we can accept critics and as well as showing compassion to the needy people...In buddhism there are two words which are very emphasy which are "Compassion and Bodhi heart" I believe the people here have such quantity in them, and they will have good karma in later life...

   

• An Eternal Now

  31 Mar 08, 22:16

  Originally posted by Bodhi hut:

  If the person has attain arhatship..he will not be in our diemension....

   

  What do you mean by "not in our dimension"?

  Arhats, when they attain arhatship, actually still live among us and appear normally as one of us. In Buddha's times, thousands of his students were recorded to have attained arhatship and people up till today continue to have attained arhatship...

  They all are humans, because only humans can cultivate to attain arhatship... the only other place is the pure abodes in 4th jhana.

• Bodhi hut

  31 Mar 08, 23:39

  "Arhats, when they attain arhatship, actually still live among us and appear normally as one of us."

   

  Now another question from me..coz I am not very much theravada studies...how does WE know he is an arhat...???

   

  "because only humans can cultivate to attain arhatship"

  I didnt hear this before............

  The four stages of enlightenment in Buddhism are the four degrees of approach to full enlightenment as an Arahant which a person can attain in this life. The four stages are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, Anagami and Arahant.

  The teaching of the four stages of enlightenment is a central element of the early Buddhist schools, including the surviving Theravada school of Buddhism

   

  Mahayana Buddhism, on the other hand, regards the Bodhisattva as a person who already has a considerable degree of enlightenment and seeks to use their wisdom to help other human beings to become liberated themselves. In this understanding of the word the Bodhisattva is an already wise person who uses skillful means to lead others to see the benefits of virtue and the cultivation of wisdom.

   

  From http://en.wikipedia.org

• Bodhi hut

  31 Mar 08, 23:43

  to add on

   

  �自yahoo知识
  
  佛法中常說............行[�薩�]!!
  也常說修�.........証[阿羅漢果]!!
  何謂[�薩�]??何謂[阿羅漢果]??
  佛陀在世時的眾多弟�都是証阿羅漢果的�人...在[阿��]的經典中...佛陀弟�行�薩�的事件....�以舉出很多事例......
  �是�在佛教徒...�一�咬定[阿羅漢�如�薩]???
  大�乘相互攻擊的餘毒尚在.....�請諸�大德發發心,為佛弟�說清楚.......此種法佈施.......功德無�......��感激!!!
  
  以下資料供�考...
  
  ***雜阿�經第一經�到：[心解脫者。若欲自證。則能自證。我生已盡。梵行已立。所作已作。自知��後有。]這[若欲自證，則能自證]是證什麼???-----就是證�盡涅槃!!所以也�以�證入涅盤!!
  
  [��薩埵]是根基於[阿羅漢].....能見和願見;能行和願行,基本上是差很多的.-------願行而且能行, 是阿羅漢具��心行者.
  
  有願行但沒有完整的能力行, 是發心學�薩�但沒有阿羅漢的看�世事的能力, �起事來多少�倫�類, 有待從�中學, ���中學�以慢慢��阿羅漢那種看�真相的能力.
  
  ***証了阿羅漢的�者是�以�底下的�擇：
  a.�擇滅度---佛�阿羅漢滅度後的狀�,是�四無記之一,無法討論。
  b.�心發慧---該�者因��羅漢果�而續行�薩�,所以轉稱�薩摩訶薩!
  
  ***[大般若波羅蜜多經�第五百五�]***
  
  爾時善�便白佛言。如世尊說。諸�薩摩訶薩行深般若波羅蜜多。
  應觀法空而�作證。云何�薩摩訶薩行深般若波羅蜜多時。.......是�薩摩訶薩於如是時。�退一切��分法�證�盡。所以者何。......
  
  此地的---是�薩摩訶薩於如是時。�退一切��分法�證�盡。----與阿�經的[若欲自證。則能自證。].....是�以相互呼應驗證的!!
  
  2007-11-06 09:23:40 補充
  
  **因此應知�薩摩訶薩是以阿羅漢果為[根基].....未能[�退轉]的�薩,也都還在阿羅漢果下修�,......修�證[阿羅漢果]與[行�薩�]是並行�相��.......�是您有發心行�薩�....就自以為[高於阿羅漢]....一個是[修�的果];一個是[修�的行]......佛弟����知!!
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  這四種果�的�人，須陀洹�斯陀��阿那�和阿羅漢，都居於� 界中，�是出世間。如果以他所證悟的「法�來看，就稱為�法：「出世 間法�，�把它�分為�種類，�是正在斷除煩惱的狀態，稱為須陀洹� 和已斷煩惱的須陀洹果，這是一�的�和果；�一�是斯陀��和斯陀� 果；阿那��和阿那�果；阿羅漢�和阿羅漢果為四雙八輩，加上涅槃， 一共�種，稱為�果�人�二果�人�三果�人和四果�人，都是在�人的境界。他們�次第而滅除苦，直到完全熄滅，這種狀態很明顯的顯�於最終的阿羅漢。正確的培育內觀，洞察�物的真�，直到真正的滅盡一切 的欲望，那就到了�界和有著能出世間的心識性質。從此，世間那能帶來 貪愛或瞋�的事物將�能�控制�支�心了。尤其是阿羅漢，那已完全熄 滅煩惱的最後�果。
  
  
  
  我有真的去看��乘學者的書,也在最近拜讀��樹�薩的書,大致明白怎回事了.....
  �時阿羅漢真的是行�薩�,佛�的大�人,但是�乘佛教傳到�樹�薩時,他�為在當時的僧眾,很多�眾生的痛苦視而�見,�背佛陀的教導,於是開始�倡大乘佛教.在�代有人也解讀為,為了興盛大乘佛教,所以�好貶抑�乘佛教.
  因佛陀本人也是阿羅漢,在當時這�算最高果�了,以佛陀和當時的僧團�後世的供�,在當時的四果阿羅漢,其實就是後世講的佛.
  我後來看了�乘阿�經,裡�關於佛陀本人講的法,極為簡單,但內容也極多.跟後世�傳的大乘佛教,大乘佛教講的法,較傾�學�派,�乘佛教較注�實證派.
  也就是�乘注�修證後,�開悟,大乘注�邊學邊證.
  以�樹�薩的說法,當時的�乘應是注�修證,忽略了�佛陀一般,四處度眾,廣行善功.而後世講大乘�如�乘,�是專指這一樣而言.
  如論�佛法專精,�乘先�修證開悟,大乘在佛法專精度,就����乘,畢竟悟來的佛法,比學來的實用.去看看佛當�教的是什麼 羅[目*侯]羅著這本由�乘學者寫的書,�去看大乘學者寫的四�諦,八正�,這類書,就�以明白.
  也就是講,修阿羅漢果,但目標��樹�薩一樣,廣行善功,為眾生說法,�眾人欽敬,就會美其�得�薩果.
  為什麼美其�?因真的四果阿羅漢修法,其實在�方國家,根本沒人知�,因這是大乘佛法的地盤,真的有人是修�乘的,�能會被攻擊的體無完膚.
  也就是說,你的�薩果�有接近到�時四果的�階,�佛陀一樣的境界,其實是�太�能的.
  這是以�論�輯上去推論,但大乘佛教�能就�是這樣排,一定會完全以大乘佛教的觀點,去排,而�考慮歷�觀點,��乘觀點.
  其實你�的是�忌�題,如果大乘佛教,誰講出:我己證佛的果�,那大家就會議論紛紛,佛�是�有釋迦牟尼�有資格嗎?
  如果誰講:我己證四果阿羅漢果!那�能�有人以為,是在講大乘的羅漢果,因大乘把�樹�薩那時代的�乘修行者,定�的較低,��被罵焦芽敗種...
  因此談證什麼果,佛教其實都盡��談,�談也以大乘講法為主,�然其實也沒人懂如果修�乘.
  如自以為自己是�乘代表,把大乘講的一文�值,其實自己也�是修�乘的人,如何證�乘果�?
  如有人把�乘批評的很爛,如果看了我剛講的佛當�教的是什麼,�能就會慚愧到無地自容,因裡�由�乘學者講的佛法之精深,世所罕見.
  http://tw.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1607110502090

• An Eternal Now

  31 Mar 08, 23:47

  Originally posted by Bodhi hut:

  to add on

   

  �自yahoo知识
  
  佛法中常說............行[�薩�]!!
  也常說修�.........証[阿羅漢果]!!
  何謂[�薩�]??何謂[阿羅漢果]??
  佛陀在世時的眾多弟�都是証阿羅漢果的�人...在[阿��]的經典中...佛陀弟�行�薩�的事件....�以舉出很多事例......
  �是�在佛教徒...�一�咬定[阿羅漢�如�薩]???
  大�乘相互攻擊的餘毒尚在.....�請諸�大德發發心,為佛弟�說清楚.......此種法佈施.......功德無�......��感激!!!
  
  以下資料供�考...
  
  ***雜阿�經第一經�到：[心解脫者。若欲自證。則能自證。我生已盡。梵行已立。所作已作。自知��後有。]這[若欲自證，則能自證]是證什麼???-----就是證�盡涅槃!!所以也�以�證入涅盤!!
  
  [��薩埵]是根基於[阿羅漢].....能見和願見;能行和願行,基本上是差很多的.-------願行而且能行, 是阿羅漢具��心行者.
  
  有願行但沒有完整的能力行, 是發心學�薩�但沒有阿羅漢的看�世事的能力, �起事來多少�倫�類, 有待從�中學, ���中學�以慢慢��阿羅漢那種看�真相的能力.
  
  ***証了阿羅漢的�者是�以�底下的�擇：
  a.�擇滅度---佛�阿羅漢滅度後的狀�,是�四無記之一,無法討論。
  b.�心發慧---該�者因��羅漢果�而續行�薩�,所以轉稱�薩摩訶薩!
  
  ***[大般若波羅蜜多經�第五百五�]***
  
  爾時善�便白佛言。如世尊說。諸�薩摩訶薩行深般若波羅蜜多。
  應觀法空而�作證。云何�薩摩訶薩行深般若波羅蜜多時。.......是�薩摩訶薩於如是時。�退一切��分法�證�盡。所以者何。......
  
  此地的---是�薩摩訶薩於如是時。�退一切��分法�證�盡。----與阿�經的[若欲自證。則能自證。].....是�以相互呼應驗證的!!
  
  2007-11-06 09:23:40 補充
  
  **因此應知�薩摩訶薩是以阿羅漢果為[根基].....未能[�退轉]的�薩,也都還在阿羅漢果下修�,......修�證[阿羅漢果]與[行�薩�]是並行�相��.......�是您有發心行�薩�....就自以為[高於阿羅漢]....一個是[修�的果];一個是[修�的行]......佛弟����知!!
  
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  這四種果�的�人，須陀洹�斯陀��阿那�和阿羅漢，都居於� 界中，�是出世間。如果以他所證悟的「法�來看，就稱為�法：「出世 間法�，�把它�分為�種類，�是正在斷除煩惱的狀態，稱為須陀洹� 和已斷煩惱的須陀洹果，這是一�的�和果；�一�是斯陀��和斯陀� 果；阿那��和阿那�果；阿羅漢�和阿羅漢果為四雙八輩，加上涅槃， 一共�種，稱為�果�人�二果�人�三果�人和四果�人，都是在�人的境界。他們�次第而滅除苦，直到完全熄滅，這種狀態很明顯的顯�於最終的阿羅漢。正確的培育內觀，洞察�物的真�，直到真正的滅盡一切 的欲望，那就到了�界和有著能出世間的心識性質。從此，世間那能帶來 貪愛或瞋�的事物將�能�控制�支�心了。尤其是阿羅漢，那已完全熄 滅煩惱的最後�果。
  
  
  
  我有真的去看��乘學者的書,也在最近拜讀��樹�薩的書,大致明白怎回事了.....
  �時阿羅漢真的是行�薩�,佛�的大�人,但是�乘佛教傳到�樹�薩時,他�為在當時的僧眾,很多�眾生的痛苦視而�見,�背佛陀的教導,於是開始�倡大乘佛教.在�代有人也解讀為,為了興盛大乘佛教,所以�好貶抑�乘佛教.
  因佛陀本人也是阿羅漢,在當時這�算最高果�了,以佛陀和當時的僧團�後世的供�,在當時的四果阿羅漢,其實就是後世講的佛.
  我後來看了�乘阿�經,裡�關於佛陀本人講的法,極為簡單,但內容也極多.跟後世�傳的大乘佛教,大乘佛教講的法,較傾�學�派,�乘佛教較注�實證派.
  也就是�乘注�修證後,�開悟,大乘注�邊學邊證.
  以�樹�薩的說法,當時的�乘應是注�修證,忽略了�佛陀一般,四處度眾,廣行善功.而後世講大乘�如�乘,�是專指這一樣而言.
  如論�佛法專精,�乘先�修證開悟,大乘在佛法專精度,就����乘,畢竟悟來的佛法,比學來的實用.去看看佛當�教的是什麼 羅[目*侯]羅著這本由�乘學者寫的書,�去看大乘學者寫的四�諦,八正�,這類書,就�以明白.
  也就是講,修阿羅漢果,但目標��樹�薩一樣,廣行善功,為眾生說法,�眾人欽敬,就會美其�得�薩果.
  為什麼美其�?因真的四果阿羅漢修法,其實在�方國家,根本沒人知�,因這是大乘佛法的地盤,真的有人是修�乘的,�能會被攻擊的體無完膚.
  也就是說,你的�薩果�有接近到�時四果的�階,�佛陀一樣的境界,其實是�太�能的.
  這是以�論�輯上去推論,但大乘佛教�能就�是這樣排,一定會完全以大乘佛教的觀點,去排,而�考慮歷�觀點,��乘觀點.
  其實你�的是�忌�題,如果大乘佛教,誰講出:我己證佛的果�,那大家就會議論紛紛,佛�是�有釋迦牟尼�有資格嗎?
  如果誰講:我己證四果阿羅漢果!那�能�有人以為,是在講大乘的羅漢果,因大乘把�樹�薩那時代的�乘修行者,定�的較低,��被罵焦芽敗種...
  因此談證什麼果,佛教其實都盡��談,�談也以大乘講法為主,�然其實也沒人懂如果修�乘.
  如自以為自己是�乘代表,把大乘講的一文�值,其實自己也�是修�乘的人,如何證�乘果�?
  如有人把�乘批評的很爛,如果看了我剛講的佛當�教的是什麼,�能就會慚愧到無地自容,因裡�由�乘學者講的佛法之精深,世所罕見.
  http://tw.knowledge.yahoo.com/question/?qid=1607110502090

  This article is a bit long and I am not good at reading traditional Chinese. Can you summarise this for us?

• An Eternal Now

  1 Apr 08, 00:12

  Originally posted by Bodhi hut:

  "Arhats, when they attain arhatship, actually still live among us and appear normally as one of us."

   

  Now another question from me..coz I am not very much theravada studies...how does WE know he is an arhat...???

   

  "because only humans can cultivate to attain arhatship"

   

  I didnt hear this before............

  As far as I know, only humans can attain arhatship. Lower realms are full of sufferings, lower realms cannot practice dharma. Only human and deva realm can practice dharma, but devas have too much pleasurable distractions to really want to learn the dharma. However a minority of them may still practice the dharma, and attain stages like Sotapanna. I have never heard of an arhat deva, however. 4th jhana's pure abodes is different, because in the pure abodes only Anagamis live there, and they take rebirth in that realm before attaining arhatship in that realm.

  As for how do we know whether they are arhat, if you are a Buddha, of course you will know who are arhats, and the Buddha recognised thousands of his students as having achieved Arhatship. If you are a bodhisattva or an arhat yourself, you can also easily recognise who is an arhat. Why? Because they can recognise where the person is at by simply asking that person to describe his current state of insight and experience, and possibly ask a few more questions to confirm that he is truly speaking from authentic experience instead of theory and am not confused with regards to what he has said. But as for us, it is more difficult, but there is also a possibility of recognising where one or another person is. But in short, though as much as we wanted, there is no single way to judge a person's attainment by just looking at him or even observing his behaviors -- an enlightened person may on the surface and appearance be seemingly ordinary and look just like us.

  Hence the only truly reliable way is to check by the criteria of insight alone, of meditative experience and insight to guage where one is on the path. But it is a little bit complex and complicated if you are not familiar with the maps of awakening and may not be totally helpful. It is however good to be familiar with maps of the stages of meditative experiences/insights/awakening in the sense that one at least has an idea where he is on the path and how to proceed and not be lost or stuck in any place. All these guidance can however only come from the personal experiences of a true enlightened teacher. The ancient maps (the goods ones) do however give some important indications of the path. That said whatever it is, continue to practice hard and that is the essential key to progress.

  As Ven Gunaratana said,

  
  [...]
  
  Meditation is a living activity, an inherently experiential activity. It cannot be taught as a purely scholastic subject. The living heart of the process must come from the teacher's own personal experience.
  
  [...]
  
  From:
  Mindfulness in Plain English
  —A Guide to Buddhist Meditation
  by Venerable Henepola Gunaratana
  http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

   

  Regarding recognising the stages of awakening I have previously posted:

   

  As I said earlier, the criteria is that you have to be familiar with the Good maps of enlightenment. Of course, if you are enlightened yourself, you should be able to tell who is enlightened and who is not. Or if you are enlightened + familiar with the maps of enlightenment, that is even better. But if you are not, at least you must be familiar with what enlightenment is really about and the maps of enlightenment, then you can distinguish whether someone is enlightened and to what degree. As I said earlier because I am familiar with the maps I can sometimes tell whether one is enlightened or even to what degrees, though not all the time. Of course the greater benefit (of familiarity with the maps) is that one is able to tell where one is when we develope certain experiences.

  But not all maps of enlightenment are good. Some are inaccurate, some are dogmatic and some are entirely based on assumptions and also the action and emotional models, such as what behaviors he wld or wld not do. Enlightened people are definitely not restricted to particular actions -- they are free to do whatever they can do under various circumstances, but due to increased clarity and wisdom it is more unlikely that they will do anything seriously harmful to oneself and others.

  There are other models of enlightenment that says that certain emotions disappear after each stage of enlightenment, which is somewhat true (but is actually more like how enlightened people were able to see the true nature of their emotions that arise so as to better manage them, then the emotions not really arising) but then again, normal people may also lack certain emotions (such as anger) if they are generally calm people or have good anger management or are strong in shamatha and metta. And also there are enlightened people who are seemingly angry, whether they are really angry you don't know. Maybe they are simply showing the wrathful form of Avalokitesvara. So again, the emotional and action models fail at this point. They cannot really show you whether a person is enlightened or not. Unlike what people think, enlightened people do not *necessarily* need to appear calm and peaceful.

  The only way to really know is, like I said, by the criteria of their insights. Here comes the 'good maps of enlightenment' that strictly based on stages of realisation in terms of insights into ultimate reality, or stages of yogic insights. What are the good maps of enlightenment? Those that speaks of the 'non-dual' models -- models that talk about stages of increased perception/insights of non-duality, luminous-emptiness, etc. I have said previously, Dharma Dan's stages of the 4 paths is one of them. Others may include the 10 bhumis as presented in terms of nondual experience in Lankavatara Sutra, the Tibetan presentation of the 10 bhumis in terms of yogic experience, the 5 ranks of Tozan, Thusness's six stages of experience, (you can find some of them in my blog http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/) and many more that are used in different traditions that actually are very similar and related to each other. And in fact if you are a lineaged teacher in the various traditions, that means you are already enlightened. They don't let you be a real lineaged teacher until you are enlightened. That is why they often say, seek a teacher from proper lineages.

  An example of the Tibetan presentation of the 10 bhumis in terms of 4 stages of yogic experience (see http://www.khandro.net/Buddhism_maha_stages.htm) and in this context of the Mahamudra system where the last 3 stages are stages of an Arya (enlightened being):

  Per Gampopa

  A lucid, unceasing awareness of the moment is the one-pointed stage of yoga.

  Understanding the essential state of the awareness as non-arising, transcending all conceptual modes, is the free-from-elaboration stage of yoga.

  Understanding the diverse appearances as being one from the standpoint of their intrinsic nature is the one flavor yoga.

  An unceasing realization of the union of appearance and their intrinsic emptiness is the great equipoise of the non-meditation yoga.

   

  So anyway, knowing the various stages one will be able to tell if someone else is enlightened by his dharma expression. Usually his words and teachings wld reflect his experience, and if he is truly enlightened then his understand will be in line with Buddha's and with the nature of reality. What he say will one way or another be similar essentially to the truly enlightened sages. If he is still not that realised then his expression would be different based on his current insight.

  By the way, you may like to listen to this MP3 by Daniel Ingram (Dharma Dan), http://www.trumix.com/podshows/2100538

  It is called 'Enlightened Teachers'.

  In our latest podcast with Theravada teacher Daniel Ingram he breaches the taboo of enlightenment by discussing the enlightenment of other teachers. Not only that but he argues for a more transparent approach to enlightenment within certain teaching circles, in hopes that enlightenment can become more attainable. Listen and see why he thinks this will help.

   

• rokkie

  2 Apr 08, 15:24

  i think when u enlightend ,u will got a peaceful heart ,other things in outside world can never weave ur heart.U know what u want ,u r satisfied,u think there is nothing better u can achieve.

  And i think enlightment is a philosophy idea, seems every far than our capabilities.It's the utmost and ultimate joy in lifetime.

  I never think i or other of my fellows can achieve that.

• An Eternal Now

  2 Apr 08, 15:56

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  i think when u enlightend ,u will got a peaceful heart ,other things in outside world can never weave ur heart.U know what u want ,u r satisfied,u think there is nothing better u can achieve.

  And i think enlightment is a philosophy idea, seems every far than our capabilities.It's the utmost and ultimate joy in lifetime.

  I never think i or other of my fellows can achieve that.

  Enlightenment is nothing philosophical, it is deeply experiential. You can know nuts about philosophy, practice sincerely under the guidance of the dharma, and similarly achieve enlightenment. You can also learn the entire world's philosophy, and yet not achieve any enlightenment. In my opinion and experience, spiritual experience, insight and practice is far more satisfying and enlightening than any amount of philosophical treatise and knowledge can bring.

  Enlightenment is definitely not beyond any of our capabilities. I know of many enlightened people today, some are even in this forum. Many people are seemingly ordinary people like us, not some high monks or venerable. There is no need to be unconvinced that all of us can likewise achieve the same. Seek an enlightened teacher, follow his/her guidance and practice hard so that you yourself can see.

  Always remember: our Buddha-Nature, like the bright sun is always already ever-present, inseparable from us, no matter where we are -- even while we are in hell or heaven, our Buddha Nature is always shining. It becomes temporarily obscured due to our ignorance and afflictions, we only need to wake up from these clouds of delusion, clear away these defilements and Mind's natural sun-like luminosity reveals itself as pure awareness. Since our Buddha-Nature is already innately perfect and only temporarily obscured, we should purify our minds of these ignorance and afflictions to reveal our original nature. In the end there is nothing attained, it has always been so, always present but missed.

  The moment the arising of realization happens, as Hui Neng has said, 1000 years of darkness dispell in a moment of brightness.

   

  The arising of realization is like the dispelling of darkness by the sun.

  ~ Longchen Rabjam

   

  Unobscured by clouds or darkness, the sun shines in the sky by its very nature.

  ~ Longchenpa

   

  Having dispelled the heart's darkness -- great ignorance -- in its own place

  The undiminished sun of luminous clarity shines continuously.

  ~ Dudjom Rinpoche

   

  
  The Ten-Stage Sutra says, “Inside all being is an indestructible buddha nature which shines through infinite space like the sun. For mortals, this buddha nature is veiled by the dark clouds of the five skandhas, like a light inside a bottle, hidden from view.” And the Nirvana Sutra says, “All beings have a buddha nature. But it is obscured by avidya (= ignorance), and they cannot escape.” Buddha nature means the nature of awakening/awareness; awakened and then helps others awaken, with bright wisdom of awakening---this is liberation. So all things good are rooted in awareness, from which manifest all merits and the fruit of Nirvana. Beholding the mind this way is understanding.

  ~ 1st Ch'an/Zen Patriarch Bodhidharma

• rokkie

  2 Apr 08, 16:46

  seems that u r quite annoyed ,when i use the word "philosophy",

  i know buddhism is somehow experiential,especially for ur guys who do the practise ,but for me ,it's somehow a philosophy,because i don't want to do the practice.If u do the practice ,but u  know nothing about buddhism teaching,it's also no use.I don't know whether u like reading, reading can bring u a lot of knowledge and insight ,when u obsess that ,u r different ,u experience different.So buddhism to many many people r kind of philosophy.i don't want to do the practice because to me it seems a bit dangerous.I only read help resouces ,i also help me to gain insight and pleasure.Meditation is ur choice ,but reading is my choice ,i am satisfied with who i am ,i don't want change ,and i don't want to do the practice, because it's too much ,u will be categeried as a buddhist ,that will be different ,u will be somehow affected in daily life.u know 唯识宗，it seems that only plentty tedious buddhism philosophy,this is to approach to the truth through knowledge .Philosophy is very important it shape the modern society ,how the society like this is because philosophy ,like sinpapore appoach pracmatism.Western is shaped by Adam smith philosophy in ecnomics.China is shaped by socialism.So "philosophy " is a noble word.

• An Eternal Now

  2 Apr 08, 17:03

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  seems that u r quite annoyed ,when i use the word "philosophy",

  i know buddhism is somehow experiential,especially for ur guys who do the practise ,but for me ,it's somehow a philosophy,because i don't want to do the practice.If u do the practice ,but u  know nothing about buddhism teaching,it's also no use.I don't know whether u like reading, reading can bring u a lot of knowledge and insight ,when u obsess that ,u r different ,u experience different.So buddhism to many many people r kind of philosophy.i don't want to do the practice because to me it seems a bit dangerous.I only read help resouces ,i also help me to gain insight and pleasure.Meditation is ur choice ,but reading is my choice ,i am satisfied with who i am ,i don't want change ,and i don't want to do the practice, because it's too much ,u will be categeried as a buddhist ,that will be different ,u will be somehow affected in daily life.u know 唯识宗，it seems that only plentty tedious buddhism philosophy,this is to approach to the truth through knowledge .Philosophy is very important it shape the modern society ,how the society like this is because philosophy ,like sinpapore appoach pracmatism.Western is shaped by Adam smith philosophy in ecnomics.China is shaped by socialism.So "philosophy " is a noble word.

  No, you misunderstood me. I am not annoyed at all, and there is no inherent problems with philosophy. Philosophy by its very right is a subject that some people may be interested in, some people may not. I myself am quite curious and interested to learn about the various philosophies and do read up on them. But I do not become engrossed or attached in the concepts, otherwise it will be detrimental.

  What I am saying here is that the entire field of philosophy and intellectual approach can never touch the essence of what Buddhism is trying to point at. We can never hope to gain any insight or experience into our very own Presence, our true nature, through the intellectual approach. This defeats the purpose of Buddhism completely, because the purpose of Buddhism is an experiential one -- to discover through insight into our reality, the nature of suffering and the way to the end of suffering. This cannot be approached through a philosophical but through an experiential manner, through awareness and investigation (not intellectual investigation though).

  Philosophy is important and has its place, but if you are going into something spiritual, you can never hope to touch anything spiritual through the intellect. Spiritual is always intuitive and experiential. It involves going beyond our symbolic layer to perceive reality BARE without our usual concepts and mental perceptions. It requires us to discover intuitively who we truly are, not merely through mental analysis.

  I hope you do not treat Buddhism as an academic or philosophical subject, because this completely defeats the purpose of Buddhism. Learning Buddhist Philosophy is completely fine and I am not against philosophy -- but not to become attached to such concepts and lose our intuitiveness, and to look into the practical aspects of Buddhism and develope insights and awakening from there.

  Knowledge cannot help to overcome your birth and death. When you are dying, all your knowledge have come to no use at all. Knowledge cannot help overcome sufferings. Buddha did not attain enlightenment through academic studies and knowledge, neither can anyone. Knowledge cannot help discover your Buddha Nature, or who you truly are. Only the light of awareness and insight can.

  Regarding 唯识宗, it is philosophically rich, but one can also never hope to understand the essence of what it is saying without intuitive experiences of the nature of Non-Duality, which is what 唯识 is trying to point to.

  One last thing -- one must never misunderstand that Buddhism is limited to sitting meditation, absolutely not. Buddhism must be implemented in our daily lives as well -- sitting meditation is only a small aspect of our life. Even if you sit half or one hour a day, the next 23 hours in your life you must also practice the dharma, otherwise how can you improve in your cultivation? Cultivation is also in the midst of living. A lot of people have the misunderstanding that cultivating Buddhism means chanting and meditation only. That is because they have never really understood true Buddhist practice and that it can be applied to any time any where...

   

  btw, regarding "i don't want to do the practice because to me it seems a bit dangerous" -- there is absolutely 0 danger in dharma practices. In fact it is dangerous if you don't practice, practice can help avert many problems and disasters in life... and can liberate you from all sufferings and from the agonies of life and death. There is only danger in practice if you cultivate deviantly, practice the wrong methods or follow cults.

• An Eternal Now

  2 Apr 08, 17:04

  http://www.jenchen.org.sg/cultivat.htm

   

  

  In cultivation, at what state of the mind does one awaken? What is the state of awakening like?

  The correct concept of cultivation

  First of all we need to understand what is cultivation. Some people think that cultivation means not having an occupation but to be engaged in the daily activities of prayers to the Buddha, meditation or chanting the sutras. The actual purpose of cultivation is to eradicate our undesirable conduct and to maintain our good conduct. In other words, to follow the Bodhisattva path in emulating the practices of the Bodhisattvas. When we know the meaning of cultivation, then we understand its purpose, which is to eradicate our self serving and evil habits and thus reduce our negative karma. However, many people do not understand this principle and they misinterpret its meaning. Actually, not only those who have renounced to be Buddhist monks or nuns need to cultivate, lay-Buddhists also need to cultivate, if not more diligently. Even those who do not subscribe to any religion need to cultivate. Cultivation is not only a matter for monks or nuns alone. What is cultivation? Where do we practise cultivation? Let me tell you a story: More than twenty years ago, I took four years to cultivate as I travelled across the country. Step by step, I covered Taiwan by walking. Once when I was in Hua-Lian, an elderly Buddhist asked me, "Master! A monk should reside in the temple to meditate, pray and chant sutras, but when you travel about what are you cultivating? I replied, "That’s right! I am cultivating. Sakyamuni Buddha teaches us to cultivate our conduct. He does not encourage us to cultivate sitting down! In the past few years I had been practising sitting meditation, now I wish to travel about. While walking and also amidst all my other activities, I do not commit evil deeds, I chant the names of the Buddhas, I praise and commend others, I tell people about the Dharma, I avoid the places of vice, this is the way I cultivate." Thus, to cultivate means cultivating in the midst of our activities. This is a point that many people do not understand. They think that cultivation will result in a society that is pessimistic and low-spirited. This is a mistake. Jen Chen Buddhism advocates cultivating in the midst of our daily activities. Many retired old folks have no need to attend to household chores anymore, thus they can afford to spend their time to chant the names of the Buddhas and to cultivate in the midst of their leisure. However, there are many housewives who need to tend to their children, household chores and many other matters. How do you expect them to cultivate in their leisure? Thus, the need to cultivate in the midst of their activities; while cooking they could chant the names of the Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas. No matter what activities they are engaged in, it is always possible to cultivate. Instead of gossipping about our neighbours and friends or engaging in other frivolous talks, why not refrain from all these. This is cultivation. Therefore, only when we cultivate in the midst of our activities do we understand the meaning of cultivation. To cultivate in our leisure may cause others a lot of frustrations. For example, a husband may be upset because his wife neglects the household by spending too much time chanting or running from temple to temple. For her to introduce Buddhism to her husband, thus, would not be an easy task. If she understands the principle of cultivating in the midst of her activities, it would be acceptable to the husband. Should he be invited to places of vice, he would know how to turn them down because his wife is a diligent cultivator. Both husband and wife are then cultivating at the same time. There will be progress in our society when we understand the principle of cultivation. Otherwise, society will backslide. Over the last few decades, I have come to realize that we need to cultivate wherever we are. When we possess the correct concept of cultivation, any time is an appropriate time for cultivation, any place can be the place for us to seek enlightenment. If each and everyone of us conduct ourselves in this way, then the world will become a pure land. If we think that we can only cultivate in the temples, or that we cannot cultivate when we are working, then it is very possible that we commit evils deeds without even knowing. When we are with Buddha every moment, and cultivate constantly, then we are truly practitioners of Buddhism. As to when in the cultivation process does one awaken and what it is like to be awakened, only when you follow the guidance of the Dharma and put it into practice, will you know you have awakened: when you drink the water, only you know how warm or cold it is.

  How do we practise Buddhism when we are so busy with our careers and constantly facing a shortage of time?

  Cultivating amid our activities

  Many of us think that learning and practising Buddhism means utilising Sundays, our rest days or daily, to pray or meditate in temples. This perception is neither right nor wrong. We may be busy with our work and other activities, but, Buddhism is best practised amid these activities. Should one be totally inactive or free, what else is there to practise? It is common to see people working and singing at the same time; machinists talking while working the machines; housewives working on their chores and exhorting their children at the same time; others work with their minds preoccupied with all sorts of other problems not related to their work. In short, they may be occupied physically, but mentally, their minds are not free or empty. As such, does learning and practising Buddhism really pose a problem to our heavy schedules? This is definitely not so. A verse from the "Seven Buddhas" reads: "Avoid all evils; do all that are good; purify one’s mind. These are the teachings of all Buddhas". So, we just need to purify our minds. While at work, although our body may be in action, it is actually amid these actions that we cultivate. The mind should not wander and the mouth should not chatter unnecessarily. We should concentrate on the work wholeheartedly, and constantly act on purifying our thoughts. This is practising Buddhism, and in fact it is the right approach. With this in mind, the busier we are, the more opportunities we have in cultivating. Let us not treat Buddhism as a form of superstition and think that to practise means having to make extraordinary efforts such as going to the forests or temples to meditate or to chant. A commuter, when travelling in a train for example, may emulate the mental purity of the Buddha, and listen to the rumbling of the wheels and at the same time rythmically chant the name of the Buddha or Bodhisattva so that the mind does not wander. Naturally the mind will become pure and calm. Learning Buddhism means emulating the mental purity of the Buddha. Buddha is one who has already attained perfect enlightenment, sublime wisdom and blessings. On the other hand the commoner has lesser blessings and wisdom. Still, he would have made tremendous advancements if he merely practises Buddhism amid his daily activities to the extent that he attains purity in his bodily actions, speech and thoughts. Thus, no matter what we do, where we are or how busy we may be, we can still practise Buddhism. As long as we put this into practise, our wisdom will develop and our blessings will gradually grow. For this reason, Jen Chen Buddhism advocates practising amid the activities of our daily lives; practising without attaching to the notion of practice; maintaining awareness without attaching to the notion of awareness; and attaining without attaching to the notion of attainment. When we understand this principle and have no more confusions, we can be considered great practitioners of Buddhism.

  How should we cultivate as we learn Buddhism?

  Non-origination and non-cessation

  Cultivation is the most important practice for a Buddhist. We need to cultivate our conduct. Having resolved to learn from the Buddha, we ought to follow the Buddha’s methods of cultivation and practice. Our each and every action is manifested physically, but these physical actions are initiated by our mind. Hence, "Cultivating our moral conduct is better than cultivating our actions. Cultivating our mind is better than cultivating our moral conduct. Maintaining non-origination of the mind is better than cultivating it." Cultivation means examining our conduct and eradicating conduct which are undesirable, for example, those that inflict suffering on ourselves or on others. When our conduct is moral and ethical, then our actions are naturally beneficial to ourselves and others. Thus, cultivating our moral conduct is better than cultivating our actions. Unethical or immoral actions, originate from an impure mind. Once these undesirable actions arecommitted, it is too late for cultivation. Thus, it is better to cultivate the mind. To cultivate the mind after the arising of impure thoughts is also too late. Thus, cultivating the mind is still not the ultimate, it is better to spontaneously cease the arising of such thoughts all together. Since there is no arising, then there is no cessation. The verse "Non-origination and non-cessation" as described in the Heart Sutra is really a simple matter! We need to understand that learning and practising Buddhism should be as simple as possible. Indeed, it is so simple that we may find it unbelievable. Yet, it is also so simple that we may not be able to do it. We learn Buddhism to overcome our disbelief and reinforce our faith so that we have the capability to put it into practice. Thus, the saying "Faith is the origin of all paths to enlightenment." Let me use a very simple method to illustrate. When a thought originates in our mind, it is "birth" or "origination". When the thought fades away it no longer exists, therefore it is "dead" or it has "ceased." Every moment of the day, the mind is perpetually engaged in a continuous process of "origination" and "cessation", or "birth" and "death" of thoughts. Unknowingly, one moment it arises, and the next it ceases. Now we need to know when these thoughts are arising and ceasing. "To know" here means "awareness". Let me use my hand to illustrate so that you may understand right away. I raise my hand now, and so my hand is "up". When I put my hand down then it is "down". Our mind constantly behaves in the same manner; one moment it gives birth to a thought ( hand is up), and the next moment the thought is dead, it passes away (hand is down). This continuous process of birth and death is called sentient beings. This process of birth and death brings forth boundless sufferings. Sentient being is boundless and therefore suffering is also boundless. When we learn and practise Buddhism it means we are striving to liberate the inner sentient being in us from these sufferings. Now, I neither raise nor put my hand down. When the mind does not give birth, there is no death. This is no-birth and no-death, or non-origination and non-cessation. The Buddhas exist in this world for the sake of liberating sentient beings from this process of birth and death. In this way we all know that non-origination and non-cessation refers to our mind and hence maintaining the mind as such is the proper way to cultivate. We should begin to cultivate from here. From cultivation, we acquire liberation, unfold our wisdom and widely follow the practices of all Bodhisattvas through aeons of countless births. In this way, we keep alive our hope of attaining the Supreme Enlightenment or Buddhahood. This is indeed so simple! Yet, so simple that you may not know, you may not believe and you doubt if you can actually do it. Whatever we are doing, be it walking, standing, sitting or sleeping, we only need to cultivate in this manner and maintain an unmoving keenness of our awareness. You may think that this is so simple and feel that you know all these very well. But, human beings are indeed intelligent and it is not easy for others to fool them. Yet, in a whole life time they are constantly deceived by themselves without ever knowing. In this world we speak of "nip in the bud" to eradicate a problem. Thus, to catch a thief, arrest his leader. In Buddhism, to cultivate our actions, first cultivate our mind. When we have our mind in control, we follow up by keeping it still. We know that "our mind is not moving", see that "our mind is not moving". The "know" and "see" mentioned here refer to our awareness. It is in this way that we maintain our awareness. I hope we all will practise and cultivate following this method. I have described the essence of the Dharma using simplest words, and when we practise as such we are with Buddha. At every moment, irrespective of our activities, be with Buddha. Jen Chen Buddhism advocates cultivating and being with Buddha amid all our activities, including walking, standing, sitting and sleeping.

  How to purify the human mind?

  Observe the mind to purify it

  We are all human beings and we all have a mind. We are frequently ‘deceived’ by our minds. For an entire lifetime we are ‘deceived’ and ‘misled’ by our minds without ever realizing it! If the mind is good, then of course, it is all very well. Such a mind creates a good person; one can ascend to the heavens or one can perform a lot of virtuous deeds. What happens if the mind is evil and becomes defiled? It can drag us to become animals, ghosts and deities, or descend to hell. This is because our mind is not pure, and therefore the world becomes a sea of suffering. This suffering world of ours is called the "Saha World". It means having to endure and is also called the "World of enduring sufferings". If we all purify our minds, then the world becomes a heaven. Everybody is very happy and there is no suffering. In learning and practising Buddhism, the most important thing is to purify our minds. When we can purify our minds, then naturally there will be happiness in our world. To do that we have to observe the non-arising of the mind. This is called ‘contemplation of the mind’. When the mind is polluted, then we cleanse it with the dew of the Buddha. And when our minds have been purified, then they are the same as those of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. In this way, we will progress very quickly in our cultivation. Observing the mind is very simple. It is like watching out for the mouse. Everybody dislike mice because they steal our food or they damage our clothings. An idiom describes this sentiment with the phrase, ‘When the mouse crosses the street everybody goes after it.’ Obviously mice are not welcomed and they have to be dealt with. One method of dealing with it, is the cat. At the sight of a mouse, the cat puts his paws firmly on the ground and fixes its steely eyes on the mouse. On seeing the cat, the mouse trembles with fear, not daring to make even the slightest movement. Treat your mind as if it were a mouse and your awareness as the cat. At every moment observe your mind, in the same way as the cat watching the mouse. The mouse wants to live and hardly has time to think of its own safety, let alone of stealing food. If we can observe our minds, then we will hardly have time enough to treasure our wisdom life, let alone think of committing evil deeds. Therefore when we are learning and practising Buddhism, we need to learn to "contemplate the mind". In this way, we will very quickly be able to avoid all evils and do all that are good. "Avoid all evils; do all that are good; purify one’s mind. These are the teachings of all Buddhas". Besides avoiding all evils and doing all that are good, we need to purify our thoughts. When our thoughts have been purified, then the mind is pure. The purpose of learning and practising Buddhism is to purify the human mind. If the minds of everyone in the family is pure, then our home is pure; if the minds of everyone in this society is pure, then our society is pure; if the minds of everyone in the country is pure, then our land is pure; if the entire human race in the world is pure, then our world is as happy as the Western Pure Land. Our mind is like the stealthy mouse, ever watchful of a chance to creep out to commit evil deeds, and we are not even aware of that. I hope all of us will keep a cat to watch our minds, so that we can become Buddha quickly.

  Why do we need to purify our thoughts?

  When the thoughts are pure all Karma are pure

  There are numerous types of karma, but generally they can be classified under three main types, namely, action of the body, speech and thought. However, our actions and speeches originate from our thoughts, that is, the thought preceeds the action or speech. Therefore, the first step to cultivation is to purify the thoughts. When our thoughts are pure, all our actions and speeches will be pure. When our actions, speeches and thoughts are pure, then all our karma are pure. Therefore, when we are learning and practising Buddhism, we should always be pure in our actions, speeches and thoughts.

  How do we follow the Bodhisattva path?

  Bodhisattva Path is Enlightenment Path

  The Bodhisattva Path is the Enlightenment Path. To follow the Bodhisattva Path, one first has to aspire for enlightenment for oneself and for all sentient beings. Having this apiration, one needs to cultivate and attain enlightenment. It is only when one is enlightened that all his thoughts and actions are considered to be on the Bodhisattva Path. If one has spent his entire life practising Buddhism without attaining enlightenment, his actions cannot be considered to be on the Bodhisattva Path. It can only be said that he is performing virtuous deeds.

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• rokkie

  6 Apr 08, 13:55

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  No, you misunderstood me. I am not annoyed at all, and there is no inherent problems with philosophy. Philosophy by its very right is a subject that some people may be interested in, some people may not. I myself am quite curious and interested to learn about the various philosophies and do read up on them. But I do not become engrossed or attached in the concepts, otherwise it will be detrimental.

  What I am saying here is that the entire field of philosophy and intellectual approach can never touch the essence of what Buddhism is trying to point at. We can never hope to gain any insight or experience into our very own Presence, our true nature, through the intellectual approach. This defeats the purpose of Buddhism completely, because the purpose of Buddhism is an experiential one -- to discover through insight into our reality, the nature of suffering and the way to the end of suffering. This cannot be approached through a philosophical but through an experiential manner, through awareness and investigation (not intellectual investigation though).

  Philosophy is important and has its place, but if you are going into something spiritual, you can never hope to touch anything spiritual through the intellect. Spiritual is always intuitive and experiential. It involves going beyond our symbolic layer to perceive reality BARE without our usual concepts and mental perceptions. It requires us to discover intuitively who we truly are, not merely through mental analysis.

  I hope you do not treat Buddhism as an academic or philosophical subject, because this completely defeats the purpose of Buddhism. Learning Buddhist Philosophy is completely fine and I am not against philosophy -- but not to become attached to such concepts and lose our intuitiveness, and to look into the practical aspects of Buddhism and develope insights and awakening from there.

  Knowledge cannot help to overcome your birth and death. When you are dying, all your knowledge have come to no use at all. Knowledge cannot help overcome sufferings. Buddha did not attain enlightenment through academic studies and knowledge, neither can anyone. Knowledge cannot help discover your Buddha Nature, or who you truly are. Only the light of awareness and insight can.

  Regarding 唯识宗, it is philosophically rich, but one can also never hope to understand the essence of what it is saying without intuitive experiences of the nature of Non-Duality, which is what 唯识 is trying to point to.

  One last thing -- one must never misunderstand that Buddhism is limited to sitting meditation, absolutely not. Buddhism must be implemented in our daily lives as well -- sitting meditation is only a small aspect of our life. Even if you sit half or one hour a day, the next 23 hours in your life you must also practice the dharma, otherwise how can you improve in your cultivation? Cultivation is also in the midst of living. A lot of people have the misunderstanding that cultivating Buddhism means chanting and meditation only. That is because they have never really understood true Buddhist practice and that it can be applied to any time any where...

   

  btw, regarding "i don't want to do the practice because to me it seems a bit dangerous" -- there is absolutely 0 danger in dharma practices. In fact it is dangerous if you don't practice, practice can help avert many problems and disasters in life... and can liberate you from all sufferings and from the agonies of life and death. There is only danger in practice if you cultivate deviantly, practice the wrong methods or follow cults.

  i am not saying that u can only gain buddhism nature through philosophy,u know how i gain that ,if i should call that buddhism nature,is through suffering,i am miserable during my time pursuit degree,then after reading taoism and buddhism teaching ,i feel i have a deepen understanding of that.

  烦����

• An Eternal Now

  6 Apr 08, 14:17

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  i am not saying that u can only gain buddhism nature through philosophy,u know how i gain that ,if i should call that buddhism nature,is through suffering,i am miserable during my time pursuit degree,then after reading taoism and buddhism teaching ,i feel i have a deepen understanding of that.

  烦����

  One should read up on Buddhism, but academic and philosophy knowledge that are overly conceptualized cannot help much. So learn what is helpful and apply them. Suffering is often the turning point for many people. At least they now seek the end of suffering through practicing dharma.

• An Eternal Now

  6 Apr 08, 14:17

  BTW rokkie where do you live?

• rokkie

  6 Apr 08, 14:46

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  BTW rokkie where do you live?

  
  removed

• An Eternal Now

  6 Apr 08, 14:56

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  
  i am from china ,but a singapore pr as well,currently i am in china

  Oh cool... I'm going to China soon for holidays. Where are you in China?