In Pali, there are four kinds of Arahart in the world.Among them,one of Arahart who don't have
supernatural power touch the ground.They don't have no intention to squash the insects or ants in the ground.
We have a lot of proof to show they are arahart.Don't judge on this based on Mahayan.For me ..I only know
the Arahart from my country.Arahart monk never said he has attained the four stages in his life.When he passed
away,we know he is a Arahart.
To correct the above line:.......They don't have intention to squash the insects or ants in the ground
I would like to explain more details on Arahart
There are two types of meditation:–
1. Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na, and
2. VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na.
1. The practice of Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na will develop the mental
states of
eight lokiya-sam�patti (mundane attainments) consisting of the four
rūpajh�nas
and four rūpa-jh�nas. Repeated exercise of these jh�nic states will
bring
forth the following:–
a) Iddhividha-abhiññÄ� ― Power to become manifold from being one,
and
from being manifold to become one again. Power to pass without
obstruction
through walls and mountains, just as if through the air. Power to
walk on water
without sinking, as if on the earth. Power to dive into the earth
and rise up again,
just as if in the water. Power to float cross-legged through the
air, just as a
winged bird. Power to touch the sun and moon with the hand.
b) Dibbasota-abhiññÄ� ― Celestial ear, the power to hear sounds
both
heavenly and human, far and near.
c) Cetopariya-abhiññÄ� ― Power to know the mind of others.
d) PubbenivÄ�sa-abhiññÄ� ― Power to recollect the incidents of one's
past
existences.
e) Dibbacakkhu-abhiññÄ� ― Celestial eye, the power to see all
material
forms and colours, whether far off or near, whether great or
small.
To obtain the enlighenment from frist stage to four stages, VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na. is the main path to Nibbana or Arahart.
To obtain the different power , Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na is the main path
Depending on which meditation method monk practices, the resulf will come out four different kinds of Arahart or Hermit
Some monk practise only VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na to become Arahart.Since these monks never practice the Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na, they do not have different power.
Some monk practise both VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na and VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na to become Arahart.So these monks have different power
Some monk practise only Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na .These monks cannot get the enlighenment from frist stage to four stages. This result lead to fine material world.This can be said hermit knowledge.
To correct the above line:Some monk practise both VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na and amatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na to become Arahart.So these monks have different power and attain four stages
Originally posted by maggot:Power will it be misused? Will the methods fall into wrong hands?
Of course. So prior to developing wisdom and enlightenment one should avoid it altogether. Other than being a mere distraction, it can prevent lots of problems frm arising.
There are different kinds of pleasure in the world.They are described in ascending order.
1) Enjoy the pleasure coming from six sense door (eye,ear,nose,tongue,body and mind)
e.g watching movie, listening music,playing game, smelling perfurme, eating delicious food,etc ..........
2) Enjoy the pleasant mind of donation to different kind of people
e.g donate food,clothes and money to charity, poor people, disable people,etc
3) Enjoy the pleasant mind of keeping or avoid the break of the percepts (Sila in Pali)
e.g.right speech,right acton,right livelihood, five percepts,eight percepts,etc...
e.g maintain the standard of morality by way of a promise to refain from killing sentient beings,stealing others properties,etc
4) Enjoy the Samatha-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na or developing of power of concentration of mind
e.g
1. Mett�: loving-kindness,
2. Karuṇ�: compassion,
3. Mudit�: altruistic joy (in the attainments of others),
4. Upekkh�: perfect equanimity
5) Enjoy from first to fourth stages of Jhana or developing of power of very deeply concentration of mind
(a) In the first jhÄ�na five distinct constituents are present; they are:–
1. Vitakka (initial application),
2. Vic�ra (sustained application),
3. PÄ«ti (rapture),
4. Sukha (happiness), and
5. Ekaggat� (one-pointedness).
b) In the second jhÄ�na four distinct constituents are present; they are:–
2. Vic�ra (sustained application),
3. PÄ«ti (rapture),
4. Sukha (happiness), and
5. Ekaggat� (one-pointedness).
c) In the third jhÄ�na three distinct constituents are present; they are:–
3. PÄ«ti (rapture),
4. Sukha (happiness), and
5. Ekaggat� (one-pointedness).
d) In the fourth jhÄ�na two distinct constituents are present; they are:–
4. Sukha (happiness), and
5. Ekaggat� (one-pointedness).
5) Enjoy the power of mind or eight lokiya-samapatti by playing different four different stage of Jhana
e.g The mind staged at frist Jhana stage jump to four Jhana stage at the very short of time, the mind at from four stage of Jhana keep deceases of stages unitl first Jhana, the mind at second stage jump to first stage in the short of time.,etc.......
6) Enjoy the four Arupas
The four Ä€rupas are:–
1. Ä€kÄ�sÄ�nañcÄ�yatana: dwelling on the contemplation of the realm of the
infinity of space,
2. ViññÄ�ṇañcÄ�yatana: dwelling on the contemplation of the realm of the
infinity of consciousness,
3. Ä€kiñcaññÄ�yatana: dwelling on the contemplation of the realm of
nothingness, and
4. NevasaññÄ�nÄ�saññÄ�yatana: dwelling on the contemplation of the realm
of neither perception nor non-perception.
7) Enjoy the Magga or enlightenment from first to four stages by VipassanÄ�-kammaá¹á¹hÄ�na.
8) Enjoy the‘Phala ñÄ�ṇa’ (insight arising from the noble path of stream-winning and its fruition) which realise nibbÄ�na. The path knowledge is called ‘ñÄ�ṇa-dassana-visuddhi’ (purity of insight).
e.g 1)SotÄ�patti Magga’ and ‘Phala ñÄ�ṇa at first stage
2)‘SakadÄ�gÄ�mi Magga and Phala’ (Path of oncereturning and its fruition) and becomes a SakadÄ�gÄ�mi (once-returner) at second stage
3) AnÄ�gÄ�mi Magga and Phala’ (path of non-returning and its fruition) at third stage
4) Arahatta Magga and Phala’ (path of Arahantship and its fruition) at fourth stage
An Arahant is free from the remaining five fetters:–
1. Rūpa-r�ga (craving for fine-material existence),
2. Arūpa-r�ga (craving for immaterial existence),
3. M�na (conceit),
4. Uddhacca (restlessness), and
5. Avijj� (ignorance or delusion) together with all defilements (kilesa). At
the end of the span of the present life he will attain nibb�na. As there is no more
rebirth for him after the parinibb�na he is absolutely free from suffering the
woes of old age, ill-health, death etc
8) State at Nibbana after Buddha and Arahart passed away
Amond level 1 to level 8 , Level 8 is the highest stage. Level 1 is the lowest stage.Which level you want to enjoy?
What u mean sorry back to topic? If you have any views different from us, you
can share us among each other.
Power will it be misused? Will the methods fall into wrong hands?
What u refer to about this question?
To be correct above line : error correction
9) State at Nibbana after Buddha and Arahart passed awayAmong level 1 to level 9 , Level 9 is the highest stage. Level 1 is the lowest stage
Let continue above topics. I translate this topics from one of the Dhamma book to share among us.
For one who always stay at leve 1 only in his life, he has high chance to go to one of States of Deprivation (apaya) :Asuras (asura), Hungry Shades/Ghosts (peta loka), Animals (tiracchana yoni),Hell (niraya).
For one who always stay at level 1,2 ,3 and 4 in his life.It is possible to go one of Happy Destinations (sugati)(Human Being and 6 Devas world above human being) . But still have chance to go to States of Deprivation (apaya) :Asuras (asura), Hungry Shades/Ghosts (peta loka), Animals (tiracchana yoni),Hell (niraya) for very bad karma.
For one who always stay at level 5 in his life, he will go to one of the fine world depending on stages of mind jhana.But he may or may not have chance to go to to States of Deprivation (apaya) :Asuras (asura), Hungry Shades/Ghosts (peta loka), Animals (tiracchana yoni),Hell (niraya) for very bad karma.
For one who always stay at level 6 in his life, he will go to one of the immaterial world depending on stages Ārupas.But he may or may not have chance to go to to States of Deprivation (apaya) :Asuras (asura), Hungry Shades/Ghosts (peta loka), Animals (tiracchana yoni),Hell (niraya) for very bad karma.
For Level 7 ,8 and 9
1)SotÄ�patti Magga’ and ‘Phala ñÄ�ṇa at first stage
As Sotapatti person already killed or eliminated sakkaya-ditthi and atta-ditthi that causes very bad karma,he never goes back to States of Deprivation (apaya) :Asuras (asura), Hungry Shades/Ghosts (peta loka), Animals (tiracchana yoni),Hell (niraya) .He has to go through maximum seven cycle lifes only in the cycles of future lifes until Nibbana.He is definitely sure to go to one of Happy Destinations (sugati)(Human Being and 6 Devas world above human being) .
2)‘SakadÄ�gÄ�mi Magga and Phala’ (Path of oncereturning and its fruition) and becomes a SakadÄ�gÄ�mi (once-returner) at second stage.He has to go through maximum three cycle lifes only in the cycles of future lifes until Nibbana.He is definitely sure to go to one of 6 Devas world above human being.
3) AnÄ�gÄ�mi Magga and Phala’ (path of non-returning and its
fruition) at third stage . He is definitely sure to go to one of five Pure Abodes (suddhavasa) in highest stage of fine world.From one of five Pure abodes, after his life of fine world is over, he will go to Nibbana.
4) Arahatta Magga and Phala’ (path of Arahantship and its fruition) at fourth stage.
As there is no more rebirth for him after the parinibb�na he is absolutely free from suffering the woes of old age, ill-health, death etc. There is only his Nibbana.
Originally posted by maggot:Can ask how long to become an arahant?
Few days? weeks? months? or years?
What is the fastest record?
IMO, it doesn't matter how long it takes to be an arahant.
Also, how long from the standpoint or reference of what?
I think it is more important to be a stream-winner or get a first glimpse of pure awareness/presence.
After the first glimpse, there are many more challenges.
I think those people who can awake very fast, already have much training in previous lives.
Originally posted by maggot:Can ask how long to become an arahant?
Few days? weeks? months? or years?
What is the fastest record?
Youngest arhat in history -- 7 year old. Two such cases in Suttas, possibly other cases after Buddha's parinirvana. Buddha instructed a monk to learn from one of the 7 year old arhat, and the monk too attained Arhatship. So wisdom may not be dependent on age.
Oldest arhat in history -- almost 2600 years old and still living. Mahakasyapa, one of Buddha's top 10 disciples, vowed to remain in nirodha samapatti until the next Buddha Maitreya attains Buddhahood. Some people who wanted to meet him and paid him a visit was able to see him, others were not able. He was the only top 10 disciple that we do not have his relics today (cos he's still alive). He used his psychic powers to shield himself from the outside world in a mountain.
Fastest record to attain Arhatship -- 1 day. I think multiple accounts of these can be found in the Suttas, one of them is the case of Bahiya, who the Buddha instructed on the practice of Insight and the nature of non-duality. There are others such as Shariputra who attained enlightenment after hearing a single verse/instruction by the Buddha on Insight/insight practice attained instantaneous awakening.
The Buddha who instructed his monks to practice the four foundations of mindfulness would often tell us that we should expect no more than 7 years to attain Arhatship. In fact it can be much shorter, 7 years are for those with dull capacities. However I think these generally refer to practitioners on retreat, for most of us we are simply not hardworking enough on our practice. But it is certainly possible for us too, and I know many lay and busy men and women who too attained enlightenment.
The Buddha:
Verily, monks, whosoever practises these four foundations of mindfulness in this manner for seven years, then one of these two fruits may be expected by him: highest knowledge (Arahantship) here and now, or if some remainder of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning. [28]
O monks, let alone seven years. Should any person practise these four foundations of mindfulness in this manner for six years ... five years ... four years ... three years ... two years ... one year, then one of these two fruits may be expected by him: highest knowledge here and now, or if some remainder of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning.
O monks, let alone a year. Should any person practise these four foundations of mindfulness in this manner for seven months ... six months ... five months ... four months ... three months ... two months ... a month ... half a month, then one of these two fruits may be expected by him: highest knowledge here and now, or if some remainder of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning.
O monks, let alone half a month. Should any person practise these four foundations of mindfulness in this manner for a week, then one of these two fruits may be expected by him: highest knowledge here and now, or if some remainder of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning.
Because of this it was said: "This is the only way, monks, for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow and lamentation, for the destruction of suffering and grief, for reaching the right path, for the attainment of Nibbana, namely the four foundations of mindfulness."
Thus spoke the Blessed One. Satisfied, the monks approved of his words.
Satipatthana Sutta
Majjhima Nikaya, Sutta No. 10
In other teachings such as Dzogchen, aspirants are told that those of dull capacities should go on retreat and be able to attain Full Enlightenment in no more than 10 years. That is only dull capacity, still there are those who attain full enlightenment much faster than that.
Of course, provided you put in the effort and do consistent practice, you will be on a certain path to awakening. Also, an initial awakening is much easier and quicker to come by. It is generally harder to aim for the complete fruition -- i.e. Arhatship or Buddhahood of the Hinayana or Mahayana respectively. That will take a longer time, but again it is possible and the Buddha assures no more than 7 years for full liberation needed if you work on your practice.
My Master has once told us that if we practiced what he taught us, it will not take more than 4 years to awaken/realise one's true nature.
So, knowing this possibility, we should practice mindfulness, diligently and consistently and have the right views... an enlightened teacher to guide will also be of great help.
Hi guys.
Can I check with you.
Is it possible to gradually train like this?
Arhat first
Then Bodhisattva
Lastly a Buddha like Buddha(But this one need a very long time right?)
Hi all
There are four kinds of persons to become Arahart
1) First person to become Arahart after hearing the one line of Dhamma.
2) Second person to become Arahart after hearing the long topics of Dhamma
3) Third person to become Arahart after meditation of Dhamma.According to Buddha said;
There are there types of person for third person.
First person of third type take 7 days to become Arahart by meditation(brilliant person)
Second person of third type take 7 months to become Arahart by meditation(bright person)
Third person of third type take 7 years to become Arahart by meditation(dull person)
4) Fourth person cannot become Arahart at the present life although he is working hard and diligent on meditation.
s it possible to gradually train like this?
Arhat first
Then Bodhisattva
Lastly a Buddha like Buddha(But this one need a very long time right?)
The above statement is wrong. After the person become Arahart , he is inclined to Nibbana. Never become Bodhisattva and Buddha.
Arahart, Bodhisattav and Buddha all are inclined to Nibbana.
Originally posted by Forrest_Gump:Hi guys.
Can I check with you.
Is it possible to gradually train like this?
Arhat first
Then Bodhisattva
Lastly a Buddha like Buddha(But this one need a very long time right?)
No, the path of personal liberation leads to the fruition of Arhatship, while the path of the Bodhisattva finally culminates in Buddhahood.
While both the common Arhat and a Buddha are liberated and awakened to reality, the difference is in the culmination of wisdom and merits of a Buddha as well as his Bodhicitta and vows and great compassion to save all sentient beings. So the path is different.
If you are a follower of Mahayana, if you cultivate the dharma and attain awakening you will become a 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva and practice until Buddhahood. A Bodhisattva on the Bhumis are also liberated, are above the cycles of birth and death, but returns to samsara due to Bodhisatta vows. He is free and liberated like an Arhat but gives rise to great compassion for all sentient beings.
In other words... The difference between the Arhat's cessation/nirvana with the Bodhisattva's nirvana is that Bodhisattvas strives for the non-abiding nirvana rather than just cessation.
In non-abiding nirvana the Bodhisattva has realized Emptiness (which does not mean 'Void' but the Emptiness of Self and Phenomena as the ultimate nature of reality) and are liberated from the cycles of birth and death of samsara but also be of limitless help to sentient beings, emanating bodies to teach them the Dharma and so forth.They live among us in a state of non-abiding nirvana, they do not separate Samsara and Nirvana and are not attached to the state of Nirvana (and samsara)
What do u mean non-abiding Nirvana?
There are two kinds of Nibbana.
When Buddha and Arahart attain four enlighenment, their mind are inclined to Nibbana at any time at the present life.This is Nibbana before pass away.After Buddha and Arahart pass away, they reached to Nibbana state with no body and mind .This is Nibbana after pass away.
Bodhisattva on the Bhumis are also liberated, are above the cycles of birth and death, but returns to samsara due to Bodhisatta vows
Whoever get the four enlighenement is above the cyles of birth and death. This means no more give birth and death. Why no more give brith and death? They have already kill and eliminated all the defilement from the body and mind.Hence they don't return to Samara for any reasons and conditions.There is no causes (all the causes have been killed) to return to Samsara.If they have not killed all the defilements, they were not Arahart.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No, the path of personal liberation leads to the fruition of Arhatship, while the path of the Bodhisattva finally culminates in Buddhahood.
While both the common Arhat and a Buddha are liberated and awakened to reality, the difference is in the culmination of wisdom and merits of a Buddha as well as his Bodhicitta and vows and great compassion to save all sentient beings. So the path is different.
If you are a follower of Mahayana, if you cultivate the dharma and attain awakening you will become a 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva and practice until Buddhahood. A Bodhisattva on the Bhumis are also liberated, are above the cycles of birth and death, but returns to samsara due to Bodhisatta vows. He is free and liberated like an Arhat but gives rise to great compassion for all sentient beings.
In other words... The difference between the Arhat's cessation/nirvana with the Bodhisattva's nirvana is that Bodhisattvas strives for the non-abiding nirvana rather than just cessation.
In non-abiding nirvana the Bodhisattva has realized Emptiness (which does not mean 'Void' but the Emptiness of Self and Phenomena as the ultimate nature of reality) and are liberated from the cycles of birth and death of samsara but also be of limitless help to sentient beings, emanating bodies to teach them the Dharma and so forth.They live among us in a state of non-abiding nirvana, they do not separate Samsara and Nirvana and are not attached to the state of Nirvana (and samsara)
Thanks for the info :)
Originally posted by sofital:Bodhisattva on the Bhumis are also liberated, are above the cycles of birth and death, but returns to samsara due to Bodhisatta vows
Whoever get the four enlighenement is above the cyles of birth and death. This means no more give birth and death. Why no more give brith and death? They have already kill and eliminated all the defilement from the body and mind.Hence they don't return to Samara for any reasons and conditions.There is no causes (all the causes have been killed) to return to Samsara.If they have not killed all the defilements, they were not Arahart.
The birth of a Bodhisattva on the bhumis is not conditioned by defilements or afflictions but due to his own vows. Having realised the twofold emptiness, he nevertheless spontaneously manifest compassionate actions to benefit all sentient beings.
102. The magnanimous [Bodhisattvas] do not
abide in nirvana or samsara. Therefore the Buddhas have spoken of this
as "the non-abiding nirvana" ~ Nagarjuna
Start from the root cause.The birth is only caused by Karma. Karma is caused by defilements.Hence Birth has definitely relation with defilements. If there is defilements,they are in Thirty-one Planes of Existence.
Originally posted by sofital:Start from the root cause.The birth is only caused by Karma. Karma is caused by defilements.Hence Birth has definitely relation with defilements. If there is defilements,they are in Thirty-one Planes of Existence.
A Bodhisattva may still have past karma, just as a Buddha still has past karma manifesting (sickness, pain, etc) even after enlightenment. But a Bodhisattva is not born due to the power of karma, and he can choose to enter nirvana to his/her liking at any time. But Bodhisattvas do not abide in cessation, but strives for non-abiding nirvana. Note that all these are the perspective of Mahayana, I think Theravadins do not share such understandings.
The karma of a Bodhisattva cannot obstruct a liberated Bodhisattva (i.e. an Arya Bodhisattva, but in Theravada generally there's no concept of a Bodhisattva who's arya/enlightened), and the karma is so largely cleared that it's described as the stench remaining in the jar after its contents are poured out... these 'remaining stench' cannot obstruct the Arya's state of liberation.
Yes. I never heard this in Theravada.You know, Not even Arahart state, An�g�mi person are afraid of returning to Samara.Anagami person 's insight is at fine particles state.Whatever matter in this world becomes fine particles in Anagami insight.They told us they are afraid of suffering of life. They don't want life.This conditions are against what you said.Brith means suffering in Anagami's enlighenment.How you understand it?please
I think Theravadins do not share such understandings.
We did not share such understandings because all the famous sayadaw and Arahart from Therava Buddhism history, never said all these. I have never heard or read about this from thousand of Therava Buddhism book and Pali laguage of Buddha scripture.
How you understand it? All the Dhamma theory are should be relevant.