dharmanature
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can the moderator explain to me some of the form with dharmanature like plants , rocks ...........
thanks !!!
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Dharma-nature: the nature underlying all things and phenomena.
Dharma Nature :The intrinsic nature of all things. Used interchangeably with "emptiness," "reality."
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佛性与法性，二者的义涵一定è¦�分清楚。明白何为佛性？何为法性？修行就找到了æ£ç¡®çš„æ–¹å�‘，æ‰�能æˆ�å°±æ— ä¸Šè�©æ��。
　　佛性就是觉性ã€�ç�µæ˜Žå¦™è§‰çš„è�©æ��自性，也就是儒家所说“清明在躬”，指的是清楚ã€�明白ã€�知善ã€�知æ�¶ï¼Œç�µçŸ¥ç�µè§‰çš„这念心；诸ä½�å�¬æ³•çš„这念心就是。这念心è�½å®žäº†å°±æ˜¯è�©æ��心。《å�Žä¸¥ç»�》云：“修行ä¸�å�‘è�©æ��心，犹如耕田ä¸�下ç§�”；《楞严ç»�》云：“知è§�立知å�³æ— 明本，知è§�æ— è§�æ–¯å�³æ¶…槃”，知è§�就是指这念心。一切ç»�论都讲“è�©æ��心”，è�©æ��心就是指我们的觉性，觉性就是佛性，说法ä¸�å�Œï¼ŒæŒ‡çš„就是一个，体认è�©æ��心对修行人æ�¥è®²å¾ˆé‡�è¦�。
　　法性是指一切现象界所具有的真实��的体性，诸法的实相。佛法上讲，一切众生佛性本具，佛性是本性本空，�讲一切诸法缘起性空。佛性是空，法性也是空，但是�义��。有些人对于佛性空与法性空弄�清楚，其实这两者��混为一谈。http://www.ctworld.org.tw/turn/lecture/b016-gb.htm
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Dharma-nature: the nature underlying all things and phenomena.
Dharma Nature :The intrinsic nature of all things. Used interchangeably with "emptiness," "reality."
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佛性与法性，二者的义涵一定è¦�分清楚。明白何为佛性？何为法性？修行就找到了æ£ç¡®çš„æ–¹å�‘，æ‰�能æˆ�å°±æ— ä¸Šè�©æ��。
　　佛性就是觉性ã€�ç�µæ˜Žå¦™è§‰çš„è�©æ��自性，也就是儒家所说“清明在躬”，指的是清楚ã€�明白ã€�知善ã€�知æ�¶ï¼Œç�µçŸ¥ç�µè§‰çš„这念心；诸ä½�å�¬æ³•çš„这念心就是。这念心è�½å®žäº†å°±æ˜¯è�©æ��心。《å�Žä¸¥ç»�》云：“修行ä¸�å�‘è�©æ��心，犹如耕田ä¸�下ç§�”；《楞严ç»�》云：“知è§�立知å�³æ— 明本，知è§�æ— è§�æ–¯å�³æ¶…槃”，知è§�就是指这念心。一切ç»�论都讲“è�©æ��心”，è�©æ��心就是指我们的觉性，觉性就是佛性，说法ä¸�å�Œï¼ŒæŒ‡çš„就是一个，体认è�©æ��心对修行人æ�¥è®²å¾ˆé‡�è¦�。
　　法性是指一切现象界所具有的真实��的体性，诸法的实相。佛法上讲，一切众生佛性本具，佛性是本性本空，�讲一切诸法缘起性空。佛性是空，法性也是空，但是�义��。有些人对于佛性空与法性空弄�清楚，其实这两者��混为一谈。http://www.ctworld.org.tw/turn/lecture/b016-gb.htm
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so u think plants and rocks also have buddha nature ,is that what u mean?
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Originally posted by rokkie:
so u think plants and rocks also have buddha nature ,is that what u mean?
the more proper saying is plants and rocks have Dharma nature. Sentient beings have Buddha nature.
yet in the ultimate sense, Dharma nature and Buddha nature are not two.
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huineng say that 人人皆有佛性。every one got buddha nature embedded.It's debative on plants and rocks or animals got buddha nature or not ,sentient beings in chinese means有情众生。in my opinion it's mean 五蕴。rocks is not alive things,so i was quite doubtful that whether he can be categorized as sentient being .i remember that eternal now said that animal was in a lower realm who cannot attain buddhahood.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
huineng say that 人人皆有佛性。every one got buddha nature embedded.It's debative on plants and rocks or animals got buddha nature or not ,sentient beings in chinese means有情众生。in my opinion it's mean 五蕴。rocks is not alive things,so i was quite doubtful that whether he can be categorized as sentient being .i remember that eternal now said that animal was in a lower realm who cannot attain buddhahood.
Only sentient beings have buddha nature, otherwise its dharma nature. But they are essentially the same.
The reason why it is called Buddha-Nature or the embryo of Buddhahood (Tathagathagarbha) for sentient beings is that we all have a potential to attain Buddhahood. Once Buddhahood is achieved/actualized, Tathagathagarbha turns into Dharmakaya (fa3 sheng1).
Inanimate/non-sentient forms cannot attain Buddhahood, so they are called dharma nature. But it's essentially the same nature of no-nature of luminous-emptiness.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
huineng say that 人人皆有佛性。every one got buddha nature embedded.It's debative on plants and rocks or animals got buddha nature or not ,sentient beings in chinese means有情众生。in my opinion it's mean 五蕴。rocks is not alive things,so i was quite doubtful that whether he can be categorized as sentient being .i remember that eternal now said that animal was in a lower realm who cannot attain buddhahood.
yes, i didn't say plants and rocks can attain Buddhahood.
"有情"众生 is sentient.
but just the word 众生 is much wider in range. 众生 mean 众缘和�而生(the coming together of conditions). Now... what does not exist from conditions? plants and rocks also exist from conditions. 缘起是说世间的一切事物都是由众缘和�而生起的.
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Note: the meaning of "gnosis" here means: our original face of awareness where phenomena appear up-front like empty reflections on the surface of a mirror. Things seem to be there; but actually they are not.
http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/old_man_basking_in_the_sun.htm
The First Vajra Theme: Absence
'All things material and their qualities are absent'
I.1. The Disclosure of Absence
4. The Absence of All Concrete Reality
First let me tell you about 'absence',
the absence that is essentially emptiness:
in the super-matrix of pure mind that is like space
whatever appears is absent in reality.
Gnosis itself and everything appearing in its scope is utterly empty, lacking any identity, so with all proliferating projection and elaborating concepts undermined nothing ever comes into existence.
In the nirvana of indeterminate gnosis,
there is no proliferation, no substance or attribute.
Despite appearances, form is emptiness and emptiness is form and there is no center inside nor any point of focus outside. The gnostic state is unoriginated and there is no dualistic mind that proliferates ideas and creates an objective universe full of specific things.
The super-matrix of pure mind is the spaciousness of absence, likened to elemental space, in which material phenomena appear as intangible images of light:
5. A Definitive Simile for Absence
In the universal womb that is boundless space
all forms of matter and energy occur as flux of the four elements,
but all are empty forms, absent in reality:
all phenomena, arising in pure mind, are like that.
Though all phenomena of all worlds seem to come into existence and perish in the sphere of elemental space, their appearance has no basis and thus, insubstantial, they are said to be absent. The four elements (earth, water, fire and air) that comprise whatever appears, because they are not composed of discrete particles, never actually come into being and, therefore, never cease to exist. Neither the supported phenomena therefore, nor the space that underlies them are actually established as existent. Likewise, both gnosis and all experience appearing within its scope are absent in reality.
Just as all worlds, inner and outer,
all forms of matter and energy,
the animate and inanimate,
all contained in space, are absent,
so is the vast field, the super-matrix of pure mind,
with its buddhas and sentient beings,
its crucible and contents, environment and life-forms:
in immaculate reality everything is nondual,
free of inflating or deflating conceptual projection.
The hologram is a salient simile for our worlds and galaxies projected into cosmic space. Atoms, elemental components of matter, construed as 'supports' of materiality are said to be 'absent' insofar as their indivisibility precludes their application as building blocks of more complex structures. Once the fundament is discovered to be absent, 'supported' material structures—planets, continents, animate and inanimate, flora and fauna—must also be absent. The absence of the material realm is employed as a simile for the status of all phenomena in the moment. The fundament, 'the support', is the pure space of gnosis, while the 'supported' is all experience appearing in its scope. The ontological status of absent phenomena is nondual, free of all evaluation in terms of existence or nonexistence. This existential indeterminacy is termed 'absence' or 'ineffability'.
Rather than referring to the utter nonexistence of all and everything, absence implies the lack of any exterior or interior identity:
6. Appearances in the Nature of Mind are Inherently Absent
Magical illusion, whatever its form,
lacks substance, empty in nature;
likewise, all experience of the world, arisen in the moment,
unstirring from pure mind, is insubstantial evanescence.
All experience of the world and our outer environment and the beings that partake of its energy, the crucible and its contents, no matter what the form, all is as empty of inherent existence as an hallucination of a world with illusory inhabitants—nothing can move outside the space of pure gnosis.
No experience of the world, inner or outer, no matter or energy,
no event in samsara or nirvana, ever leaves pure mind.
Pure gnosis is our original face of awareness where phenomena appear up-front like empty reflections on the surface of a mirror. Things seem to be there; but actually they are not. Everything is a momentary illusion in the nature of mind; nothing whatsoever stirs from or differs from the nature of mind.
Pure mind is the all-inclusive space-time of the dream—of both samsara and nirvana:
8. The External World is Neither Mind Nor Anything But Mind.
Experience may arise in the mind
but it is neither mind nor anything but mind;
it is a vivid display of absence, like magical illusion,
in the very moment unutterable.
All experience arising in the mind,
at its inception, know it as absence! -
Anything of an essence that is taught is not Buddhism.
For all things have no essence, and this is the "essence of all things" -- for all perceived "things" are mere empty-light, appearances "absent" of inherent existence.
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Here are some quotes from the All-Creating King Tantra, in which Samantabhadra speaks directly to the listener:
"I, the supreme source ["All-Creating King"], am the sole maker, and no other agent exists in the world. The nature of phenomena is created through me ... The very manifestation of existence itself depends on me ... I am self-arising wisdom that has existed from the beginning. I am the supreme source of everything, pure and total consciousness ...'Consciousness' means that self-arising wisdom, the true essence, dominates and clearly perceives all the phenomena of the animate and inanimate universe. This self-arising fundamental substance, not produced by causes and condition, governs all things and gives life to all things ... As my nature is unhindered and all-pervading, it is the celestial abode of wisdom and luminous space: therein abides only self-arising wisdom. As I am the substance whence everything arises, the five great elements, the three worlds [i.e. the worlds of Desire, Form, and Formlessness] and the six classes of beings [hell-denizens, ghosts, animals, humans, Titans, and gods] are only my body, my voice, and my mind: I myself create my own nature ... The root of all phenomena is pure and total consciousness, the source. All that appears is my nature. All that manifests is my magical display. All sounds and words express only my meaning ...
"I am the core of all that exists. I am the seed of all that exists. I am the foundation of all that exists. I am the root of existence. I am 'the core', because I contain all phenomena. I am 'the seed', because I give birth to everything. I am 'the cause', because all comes forth from me. I am 'the trunk', because the ramificationsof every event sprout from me. I am 'the foundation', because all abides in me. I am called 'the root', because I am everything [emphasis added]" (Translation of "The All-Creating King", published as The Supreme Source, tr. by Adriano Clemente and Andrew Lukianowicz, Snow Lion Publications, Ithaca, New York 1999, pp. 137-141, 157).
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The following article answers the forummer's question --æœ‰æƒ…æ— æƒ…å�Œåœ“ç§�智
~ 狮城�音 (第一集)
Venerable Shen Kai
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Originally posted by rokkie:
huineng say that 人人皆有佛性。every one got buddha nature embedded.It's debative on plants and rocks or animals got buddha nature or not ,sentient beings in chinese means有情众生。in my opinion it's mean 五蕴。rocks is not alive things,so i was quite doubtful that whether he can be categorized as sentient being .i remember that eternal now said that animal was in a lower realm who cannot attain buddhahood.
Ever hear of æœ‰æƒ…æ— æƒ…å�Œåœ“ç§�智?
Everything regardless animate or inanimate is arising in the luminous-aware-space of the One True Dharmadhatu (一真法界) which is ungraspable and empty in essence.
By the way all sentient beings will eventually attain Buddhahood. All inanimate things cannot attain Buddhahood because they do not have mind and the 8 consciousnesses that can in turned be transformed into wisdom, or turned into the 3 Kayas -- Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya, Dharmakaya. They do not have Tathagarthagarbha.
Animals cannot attain Buddhahood in his current lifetime but will attain Buddhahood in future lifetimes after being reborn in the human realm again.
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Longchen @ http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/308657 :
True presence is not indiferent but is a vivid spacious aliveness.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
yes, i didn't say plants and rocks can attain Buddhahood.
"有情"众生 is sentient.
but just the word 众生 is much wider in range. 众生 mean 众缘和�而生(the coming together of conditions). Now... what does not exist from conditions? plants and rocks also exist from conditions. 缘起是说世间的一切事物都是由众缘和�而生起的.
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very comprehensive -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Ever hear of æœ‰æƒ…æ— æƒ…å�Œåœ“ç§�智?
Everything regardless animate or inanimate is arising in the luminous-aware-space of the One True Dharmadhatu (一真法界) which is ungraspable and empty in essence.
By the way all sentient beings will eventually attain Buddhahood. All inanimate things cannot attain Buddhahood because they do not have mind and the 8 consciousnesses that can in turned be transformed into wisdom, or turned into the 3 Kayas -- Nirmanakaya, Sambhogakaya, Dharmakaya. They do not have Tathagarthagarbha.
Animals cannot attain Buddhahood in his current lifetime but will attain Buddhahood in future lifetimes after being reborn in the human realm again.
even human have to struggle so hard to attain buddha ,at least i don't see the possibilities for most of them.human have buddha nature .but do not mean they can necessarily be buddha,animal also likewise.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
yes, i didn't say plants and rocks can attain Buddhahood.
"有情"众生 is sentient.
but just the word 众生 is much wider in range. 众生 mean 众缘和�而生(the coming together of conditions). Now... what does not exist from conditions? plants and rocks also exist from conditions. 缘起是说世间的一切事物都是由众缘和�而生起的.
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yes dharma nature is universal.And the nature is empty in nature as well.Since every thing is composed of four elements 地水风�。
And every single relate and affect each other.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
even human have to struggle so hard to attain buddha ,at least i don't see the possibilities for most of them.human have buddha nature .but do not mean they can necessarily be buddha,animal also likewise.
Everyone will eventually be a Buddha, but it takes aeons of practice.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Everyone will eventually be a Buddha, but it takes aeons of practice.
if u say it takes aeons of time or practice ,at least hardly in this life time.So that's make less sense for most of laymen.In buddhism a lot of thing are intangible.Ppl cannot see it but imagine it .Say ppl will get well fortune in next life time .In fact i don't believe it.i take that as a 方便法门，which mean it may not be ture scientificaly but this is the way how buddha teach ppl.some one may ask r there a pure land scientifically.i will say no .pure land is always in your heart ,you can not look for it outward ,but inward.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
if u say it takes aeons of time or practice ,at least hardly in this life time.So that's make less sense for most of laymen.In buddhism a lot of thing are intangible.Ppl cannot see it but imagine it .Say ppl will get well fortune in next life time .In fact i don't believe it.i take that as a 方便法门，which mean it may not be ture scientificaly but this is the way how buddha teach ppl.some one may ask r there a pure land scientifically.i will say no .pure land is always in your heart ,you can not look for it outward ,but inward.
Buddhahood is of course real, Shakyamuni Buddha attained Buddhahood.
If you practice well you can attain various bhumis of Bodhisattvahood, you can attain enlightenment and realise your true nature, and I know many people who have become enlightened and are real enlightened Bodhisattvas living today.
However they have not yet attained full Buddhahood which takes many many lifetimes of cultivation, wisdom and accumulating merits.
But they already have been liberated from samsara and all sufferings.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Everyone will eventually be a Buddha, but it takes aeons of practice.
that's say if some one died.He maybe reborn in this or another realm of world.And he cannot retrieve his memory back.That's say you ,maybe you r an emperor in last one or many life time ,does it make sense to you in this life time ,no.It's only talking .And eveentually ,which means many many life time.Maybe the world is different ,but i say evil is also part of human nature .if someone cannot get rid of it ,he can never become buddha.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
that's say if some one died.He maybe reborn in this or another realm of world.And he cannot retrieve his memory back.That's say you ,maybe you r an emperor in last one or many life time ,does it make sense to you in this life time ,no.It's only talking .And eveentually ,which means many many life time.Maybe the world is different ,but i say evil is also part of human nature .if someone cannot get rid of it ,he can never become buddha.
No, practice is continuous, meaning your level of cultivation continues in your next lifetime.
You may be emperor and so on and all these are temporary, but cultivation and practice is continuous all the way to Buddhahood.
Evil is part of many people not because people are inherently evil, but because most people are trapped in their own mental afflictions and ignorance, like clouds covering the sun. So we must purify the mind, when the clouds are gone, the sun (buddha-nature) reveals itself.
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but let's say some one do some thing bad,very bad.It also do harmful to the cultivation right.So the cultivation can go backward and forward.
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let's take a dot for cultivation ,it's continuous ,so it form a line ,straight line or curly line ,it can go up and down.If it go up straight away he can attain buddhahood .But some how the line is not up some time go down.How can he attain buddhahood ,since the line may never go to peak
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
No, practice is continuous, meaning your level of cultivation continues in your next lifetime.
You may be emperor and so on and all these are temporary, but cultivation and practice is continuous all the way to Buddhahood.
Evil is part of many people not because people are inherently evil, but because most people are trapped in their own mental afflictions and ignorance, like clouds covering the sun. So we must purify the mind, when the clouds are gone, the sun (buddha-nature) reveals itself.
i totally agree the example u give ,cloud and the sun.In fact before huineng ,the dominant teaching in buddhism say that someone may never become buddha, because they are bad in nature .During huineng time ,he raise the concept ,that everyone have buddha nature ,and everyone can become buddha,and it sound a little bit unacceptable to mainstream buddhism.Of course now ppl agree huineng's saying . -
Originally posted by rokkie:
let's take a dot for cultivation ,it's continuous ,so it form a line ,straight line or curly line ,it can go up and down.If it go up straight away he can attain buddhahood .But some how the line is not up some time go down.How can he attain buddhahood ,since the line may never go to peak
Hence we must plant deep conditions with the triple gems -- i.e. take refuge in the 3 treasures, practice the dharma well, associate with the wise and practitioners, follow an enlightened master, etc. When these seeds of dharma is deeply rooted in your mind, you can easily have the opportunity to encounter the dharma again in a future life.
Practice so that you can gain enlightenment in this present life. If you do, then you will be not need to worry because you will not be able to retrogress that much from the path and will be on a certain path to full enlightenment. Even if you did not, the sincere practice will certainly plant a deep karmic affinity with the triple gems.