Originally posted by rokkie:
i totally agree the example u give ,cloud and the sun.In fact before huineng ,the dominant teaching in buddhism say that someone may never become buddha, because they are bad in nature .During huineng time ,he raise the concept ,that everyone have buddha nature ,and everyone can become buddha,and it sound a little bit unacceptable to mainstream buddhism.Of course now ppl agree huineng's saying .
Yes and what Hui-Neng said is in fact in accordance with the sutras that even icchantikas have buddha-nature.
One of the foremost disciples of the Venerable Hwei Ywan (see entry), the Venerable Dau Sheng was a great enlightened master who is best known for his propagation of the teachings of the Mahayana and particularly the doctrine of the universality of Buddha-nature, even in ['those of insufficient faith'].
"At the time when only the first part of [the ] . . . had been translated into Chinese, Dharma Master Dau Sheng was lecturing on it in Soochow Province in JungGwo. When he came to the passage that said that lack the Buddha-nature, he didn't explain it that way, but he said instead that they have the Buddha-nature. His reasoning went like this:
"'Why is it that have the Buddha-nature? It is because all living beings have the Buddha-nature, and although have insufficient faith, they are living beings. Therefore, how can one say they lack the Buddha-nature?'
"He lectured on the question in a way opposite to the reading in the first half of the Sutra, which outraged the other Dharma Masters of his time. They protested, 'That's the talk of demonÄ kings! The Sutra which the Buddha spoke plainly says that don't have the Buddha-nature, yet he says they do. That's really messed up.' No one would have anything to do with him after that, and when he lectured on the sutras, no one came. The Dharma Masters ganged up and told all the disciples and good people of faith, 'If Dau Sheng lectures, don't go. Anyone who listens to his Sutra lectures will fall into the hells.'
Since the whole reason the good men and women of faith were studying the Buddhadharma was to avoid falling into the hells, when they heard they would fall into the hells if they went to Dharma Master Dau Sheng's Sutra lectures, they didn't dare go to listen.
"Dharma Master Dau Sheng was not one to remain silent, but was determined to deliver Sutra lectures. He said, 'Okay, you won't come to listen? Then I'll go lecture to the rocks and see what they do.' And so he went of to Hu Ch'iu Mountain and collected several hundred rocks from all over the area. He set them up in front of him and said, 'I invite you to a Sutra lecture. Be good rocks and sit there nice and still.' It turned out that the rocks were very obedient. They didn't run off or roll away, but stayed right where he put them. When he got to the passage about not having the Buddha-nature, he said, 'That isn't correct. have the Buddha-nature too. "Those with and without sentience identically perfect the wisdom of all modes." will become Buddhas too. I SAID DO HAVE THE BUDDHA NATURE! DO YOU AGREE?'
"What do you think the rocks did then? Probably, although they were supposed to enter , they had not quite gotten into it and had not yet had a chance to fall asleep. When the rocks heard the Dharma Master ask that question, they all jumped to attention and started moving. This dull rock nodded its head, and that dull stone nodded its head. They all nodded in agreement, bumping into each other, because each would hit the rock in front of it.
"Someone might wonder who verified that really happened. It is not something that the venerable Dau-sheng said himself. It was said by those who opposed him. How did they end up saying such a thing? The reason people were against him in the first place was that he lectured too well. His eloquence was unobstructed, as if lotuses were blooming on his tongue. Almost everyone was jealous of the way he could come up with explanations that never occurred to anyone else, and of how he could make the sutras come alive, as it were. That is the way people are. If someone is better than they are, they get jealous, and if they are better than someone else, they look down on that person. Living beings have that kind of knowledge and outlook. And so the people of his time formed a faction in opposition to Dharma Master Dau Sheng. When he went to the mountains to lecture to the rocks, some of them followed him on the sly to see what he was doing. Then, when he lectured there and all the rocks began to move, nodding their heads--without being blown by the wind or splashed by the rain--the Dharma Masters who were spying on him, those who believed in him and even those who were against him, all saw what occurred. That is the origin of the saying,
When the Venerable Dau Sheng spoke the Dharma,
Dull rocks nodded their heads.
"Afterwards, when the had been completely translated, it turned out that the Sutra itself says that also have the Buddha-nature. That proved that Dharma Master Dau Sheng had completely understood the doctrine without having seen the entire Sutra; it showed the extent of his wisdom and insight. Afterward this incident even those who had opposed him no longer did so and came to bow to him.
"The meaning of the dull rocks nodding their heads is that those who had no faith in him were the dull rocks--otherwise how could they have failed to believe in him? Yet in the end even those who had been jealous and opposed him prostrated themselves before him." (WM 71-73)
yes ,i know ,but my point is not every one is good in nature ,or comfortable with buddhism ,æ²¡æœ‰å–„æ ¹ã€‚see the world now ,full of æ�€ï¼Œ ç›— æ·« 妄，it's the ending era of dharma ,末法时代,if every one will attain buddhahood ,seems that the world will not become worse and worse ,u can check the history ,ppl are more corrupt in morality nowadays .
"'Why is it that have the Buddha-nature? It is because all living beings have the Buddha-nature, and although have insufficient faith, they are living beings. Therefore, how can one say they lack the Buddha-nature?'
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not so convincing
Originally posted by rokkie:yes ,i know ,but my point is not every one is good in nature ,or comfortable with buddhism ,æ²¡æœ‰å–„æ ¹ã€‚see the world now ,full of æ�€ï¼Œ ç›— æ·« 妄，it's the ending era of dharma ,末法时代,if every one will attain buddhahood ,seems that the world will not become worse and worse ,u can check the history ,ppl are more corrupt in morality nowadays .
Yes not many people will attain Buddhahood anytime soon or be on the path to Buddhahood, as many people are still obscured by the clouds temporarily covering up the sky.
Originally posted by rokkie:"'Why is it that have the Buddha-nature? It is because all living beings have the Buddha-nature, and although have insufficient faith, they are living beings. Therefore, how can one say they lack the Buddha-nature?'
===============================
not so convincing
When you realise your Buddha-Nature, you will see that the same Buddha-Nature is present in every sentient being. It will make perfect sense.
For Dhamma nature, you can montior body and mind. Let me tell you the example
The meditator starts concentrating and knowing of mind in breathing air in and out from the nose.You realize the difficulites to put your mind in breathing in and out for long hour .Why? The mind don't want to stay in one nose state.The mind wil be diverted to outside thinking from the body.Oh..If he put the mind in breathing in and out, the mind don't want to stay .The mind is attached to outside other five sense door(eye,ear,tongue,body and thinking) frequently. After that , his lower body tell the mind my leg is painful due to no movement parts of the body during the meditation.You mind is diverted to painful leg.He realize he cannot control the state changes of mind and body.It happen by naturally in body and mind.He feel and concentrate arising and perishing of changes of painfulness and mind in the body and mind.This is the beginning of Dhamma nature in the body and mind by meditation method.
IMOP...
In logical term..human has more of the buddha nature becoz of our intellecture ability compare to animals....and becoz of the environment that we are in compare the deva..we have higher opportunity as we are sufferings where enlighten is the way to end our suffering..
Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
IMOP...
In logical term..human has more of the buddha nature becoz of our intellecture ability compare to animals....and becoz of the environment that we are in compare the deva..we have higher opportunity as we are sufferings where enlighten is the way to end our suffering..
Actually not true. Intellectual ability is not related to Buddhahood at all, and being intellectual does not make one an inch closer to Buddhahood. There are lots of intellects who are far far away from enlightenment.
Worse still, those with great intellect may abuse his intelligence in the wrong way -- creating nuclear bombs, causing mass destruction and harm for selfish benefits, and so on. This 'intellect' and 'cleverness' has nothing to do with the wisdom of the Buddha.
Finally Buddha-Nature cannot be compared with "more" and "less". Why? Because Buddha-Nature is Equal, it is the Universal Equality of all beings and all phenomenon. Nothing can be added or subtracted from Buddha Nature for its nature is empty and self-perfected in all beings. No human intellect or qualities add a single bit to buddha-nature -- likewise being an animal subtracts not a single bit of Buddha-Nature of it.
As Heart Sutra also says -- not produced. Not destroyed, not defiled, not pure, and they neither increase nor diminish. If anyone sees that one's buddha nature is more than the other or the other's buddha nature is more than mine, he obviously do not know what is Buddha-Nature. One who realises Buddha Nature sees the same Buddha Nature in everyone -- he perceives all beings and all phenomenon as equal.
p.s. I was reminded of Hui-Neng's story as well:
http://sped2work.tripod.com/huineng.html
His Holiness Hui Neng, who became the great Sixth Patriarch of Ch'an (Japanese Zen) was a poor illiterate peasant boy from Hsin Chou of Kwangtung. One day, after he had delivered firewood to a shop, he overheard a man reciting the following line from the "Diamond Sutra" - "Depending upon no-thing, you must find your own mind." Instantly, Hui Neng became Enlightened. The full verse said: "All Bodhisattvas (Compassionate Ones) should develop a pure mind which clings to no-thing whatsoever; and so he should establish it."
The man who recited this sutra encouraged Hui Neng to meet the Fifth Zen Patriarch, Hung Jen, at the Tung Chian Monastery in the Huang Mei District of Chi Chou. Hui Neng said to the Fifth Patriarch: "I am a commoner from Hsin Chou Kwangtung (today, near Canton in the south of China). I have traveled far to pay you respect, and I ask for nothing but Buddhahood." "You are a native of Kwangtung, a barbarian? How can you expect to be a Buddha?" asked the Patriarch. "Although there are northern men and southern men, north and south make no difference to their Buddha Nature. A barbarian is different from Your Holiness physically, but there is no difference in our Buddha Nature." Master Hung Jen immediately accepted Hui Neng as his disciple, but he had to hide this fact from the very educated northern monks at the monastery. At the time of the Fifth Patriarch, Ch'an was still influenced by Indian Buddhism, which did not emphasize direct awakening, but the importance of study and metaphysical debates. To protect Hui Neng, the Patriarch sent him to the kitchen to split firewood and pound rice for eight months.
(continued in URL)
Finally Buddha-Nature cannot be compared with "more" and "less". Why? Because Buddha-Nature is Equal, it is the Universal Equality of all beings and all phenomenon. Nothing can be added or subtracted from Buddha Nature for its nature is empty and self-perfected in all beings. No human intellect or qualities add a single bit to buddha-nature -- likewise being an animal subtracts not a single bit of Buddha-Nature of it.
===========================
ideally speaking it's like this ,but in daily life ,there definitely are some ppl who are regarded higher level in buddha nature ,that's why we approach to them and listen to them ,seems that they have more wisdom.
Intellect does not mean anything ,if u refer to know or science ,one person ,may got full knowledge ,but he may be dumb in buddhism context .But somehow the famous buddhist through out the history appear to be smart ,at least in context of debating ,that's called 辩æ‰�æ— ç¢�。and å�—怀瑾 said a lot of ppl after they practice buddhism they appear to be more talented in literature ,or peotry stuff
Hi,
Don't wish to add to more speculations of Buddha Nature.
Just wanna stress that Buddha Nature cannot be intellectualised and conceptualised.
Whatever that is intellectualised is within the realm of mental activities.
If there is no initial experience of Buddha Nature, the mental realm will never be able to understand it.
Also, equally important is that the initial first glimpse of it, will very quickly be miscontrued too. And therefore is also not synonymous to enlightenment. But it can be described as an initial awakening.
Beyond the first glimpsed is a continuous series of refinements towards the ability to understand it better. This usually happens in a series of major insights or realisations plus countless cycles of mini-self recognitions (or pattern clearing). These can take years or even lifetimes.
Originally posted by rokkie:Finally Buddha-Nature cannot be compared with "more" and "less". Why? Because Buddha-Nature is Equal, it is the Universal Equality of all beings and all phenomenon. Nothing can be added or subtracted from Buddha Nature for its nature is empty and self-perfected in all beings. No human intellect or qualities add a single bit to buddha-nature -- likewise being an animal subtracts not a single bit of Buddha-Nature of it.
===========================
ideally speaking it's like this ,but in daily life ,there definitely are some ppl who are regarded higher level in buddha nature ,that's why we approach to them and listen to them ,seems that they have more wisdom.
Intellect does not mean anything ,if u refer to know or science ,one person ,may got full knowledge ,but he may be dumb in buddhism context .But somehow the famous buddhist through out the history appear to be smart ,at least in context of debating ,that's called 辩æ‰�æ— ç¢�。and å�—怀瑾 said a lot of ppl after they practice buddhism they appear to be more talented in literature ,or peotry stuff
Wise people had not added a single bit to his Buddha Nature -- his Buddha Nature is non increasing and non decreasing. It is just that since the clouds obscuring the vast sky or the sun has been removed, it becomes revealed. One's Buddha-Nature then reveals itself when these obscuration and ignorance has been removed (i.e. the clouds obscuring the sky/sun has been removed to reveal the sun).
In reality not a single bit of Buddha-Nature has been added -- the Sky has always been the Sky, it has always been infinite, vast, limitless and inconceivable, whether there are clouds or not. Not a bit of sky-ness can be added or subtracted. When clouds has dissipated to reveal the vast sky, in actuality nothing has been added -- just what is always so now becomes revealed. Similarly, our Buddha-Nature which is sky-like, in which all merits and wisdom is inherent, cannot increase nor decrease.
本 体 自 性 具 足 一 切 功 德， 在 圣 � 增， 在 凡 � � -- http://www.humanbliss.com.sg/blissful_articledetails.asp?articleNo=429
In Buddhism, 辩æ‰�æ— ç¢� is not because one is smart, but because one has realised one's true nature and thus cannot be obstructed by doubts and questions. One who realises his true nature will be able to answer a dharma question in ways that no others can do so. His dharma eye and wisdom eye will open, a.k.a the third eye between the eyebrow. He will be able to discern all dharma questions and works and react accordingly and know whether it is right or wrong. This is not through thinking and book knowledge, but through his Wisdom Eye. It is through this wisdom eye that his dharma teachings spontaneously flows out of his own nature into creative works, poems, speeches, etc. An enlightened person can not only explain all dharma texts in his own words -- he can also teach the dharma without refering to any texts but spontaneously out of his wisdom and experience. Without thinking, but through wisdom.
One who realises his true nature will at once grasp the essence of every single sutra in the Tripitaka, not just one. That means even if he did not read any sutras, he will still be able to answer your questions on the sutras. Examples are like 6th Patriarch Hui-Neng, who could not read and only ever heard one verse from the Diamond Sutra and attained enlightenment. After his enlightenment, he was able to explain all questions posed by others on the various sutras. My Taiwanese Teacher as well -- he was also illiterate, the only sutra he read was the Diamond Sutra and he spent 4 years flipping through the dictionary in order to understand the words, but after his enlightenment he could explain very well every single sutra from questions posed by his students.
Of course such a will be able to describe the dharma in his own words or poems because he had direct experience. Even if one reads all the sutras in the world, without enlightenment or direct experience, it is only intellectual/book knowledge.
Also, there are dumb/stupid people who attain enlightenment. Which shows that enlightenment has nothing to do with human intellect.
http://www.dzogchen.org/teachings/talks/SustainAware10694.html
..."I think the genius of Buddhadharma is that it really provides a workable path to do this inquiry through. Anybody can do it. Even if you can't memorize anything. It is a do-it-yourself, liberating Dharma.
One of my favorite stories is about the Arhat Chunda. He was quite stupid. When his brother became a monk, Chunda just wanted to do what his brother did. So he went to Ananda, Buddha's attendant. But holy Ananda said, "Sorry. You're too stupid." Ananda thought this kid was too stupid to become a monk because he couldn't remember the rules, the chants, the teachings. So the elder brother and his stupid little brother went to the Buddha, for the Buddha was extremely wise, kind, and compassionate. He scanned the past lives of this young, stupid boy, Chunda. He saw in there one tiny root of merit that could help him get enlightened. He said it didn't matter how dull-minded he was. It didn't matter that he couldn't memorize anything. It didn't matter if he could remember even one rule. The Buddha said to Ananda, "Ananda, you're not the Buddha, so you couldn't see that this kid can get enlightened. But I'm the Buddha and I'm going to ordain him because he can get enlightened. He has one good root of merit from a past life. He can do it, too. Watch over this little child." (This story always brings tears to my eyes.)
So Buddha ordained the kid. The kid couldn't remember even one rule, or how to wear his robes. You know, it's complicated to be a monk. All the monks were studying and memorizing. There were a lot of teachings. There were 253 rules of monastic ordination. But the stupid, youthful Chunda couldn't remember anything.
Finally, the brethren gave him the job of cleaning off the sandals of the monks. Chunda cleaned the sandals while the other monks were getting teachings. Since there weren't any books in those days, 2500 years ago in India, nothing was written down; the monks had to memorize the teachings. Chunda wanted to practice like the other monks, and get this enlightenment thing he heard about every day. So he asked the Buddha how he could get this enlightenment thing. The Buddha said, "When you're scraping mud and sweeping the floors, just think, 'Now I am purifying all the obscurations of the mind.'" So he gave him a little two-line verse. "With each cleaning of the sandals, I am cleaning off the obscurations of the shining, perfect mind." The Buddha asked him to repeat it. He repeated it. The Buddha said, "Can you remember that?" He said, "Yes."
Then dumb Chunda went out and tried to repeat the verse. "With each scraping of the dirt, I am cleaning..." And he couldn't remember it. But he had good karma and had gentle Ananda around to remind him of the verse. Still, Chunda forgot again. Then Sariputra the learned came out, and Chunda asked him to remind him. Finally, the Buddha came back and said to Chunda, "Are you cleaning the sandals?" He said, "Yes." Buddha asked, "Are you cleaning the dust off the floor?" Chunda said, "Yes." And Buddha asked, "Have you cleaned the obscurations off the shining, perfect mind?" Suddenly Chunda was enlightened! He realized that the sandals with the dirt are still the sandals. The floor even with the dust is still the floor. Everything is just as it is. He became an arhat, a fully liberated sage.
In those days, wherever the Buddha went, the people would always try to serve lunch, the main meal of the day, to him and the arhats. They thought if they gave Buddha lunch they would get the most merit, and if they gave the arhats lunch they would get almost as much merit. But if they couldn't catch any arhats, they would feed the ordinary monks and get a little less merit. Everyone knew how stupid Chunda was, and they didn't believe he was an enlightened arhat. But wherever Buddha went, he saved a seat for Chunda, because he said he was the purest-minded, least proud arhat. Purest-minded because he didn't know anything. And least proud because he was so simple, so humble, so undemanding and easy to be with.
Unfortunately, we are not that stupid. We know too much. Or should I say, we think so much, we know so little. If we could just be ourselves, and take the path that is genuinely for us, it would be so easy. Imagine if Chunda was trying to become a Buddhist scholar, he never would have gotten enlightened. But he was content to clean the monks' shoes because he loved his brother and Buddha and the other monks. And it had to be done, so he did it. And he had a little teaching, a little verse that fit into that. That's why Thich Nhat Hanh gives everybody a little verse. He has a little verse for eating, for waking up, for toilet, for going to sleep, because one little verse can be enough to fully awaken you to the fullness and richness of the present moment.
Spiritual life has nothing to do with how smart you are. In fact, being smart can be an obstacle. You can become proud and have more clutter in your brain."...
BTW, in reality there is no "your buddha nature" and "my buddha nature" -- Buddha-Nature is like the sky, in which divisions and boundaries such as "you", "me", "mine", and so on are absent.
All perceived separations are just that -- perceptions, due to ignorance of our true nature.
When Buddha-Nature is realised, all experiences are seen to be expression of this luminous undivided space, and all perceived separations are simply illusions.
Hence any questions related to "my Buddha Nature" and "his Buddha Nature", "more", "less", "increase", "decrease", or "him", "me", "mine", are really irrelevant simply because such notions are false.
From a very old post... 03 December 2004... by Longchen:
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/100855
Hi Sangha,
I am in no position to say whether Pure presence is nibbana. I can
only write from my own experience and understanding.
This pure presence is called Rigpa in Tibetan Buddhism. I am not a
Buddhist in this life, but I was a Tibetan Monk of Nyingma school
several lifetimes ago. That is why I still have a lot of interest
in Buddhism.
About Rigpa, when we experience it. It is formless and empty and at
the same time infinite and all pervading. It is NOT BLISS. Bliss is
a samadhi state but it is not the true nature yet, it is still a
state in the mind. I have bliss experiences also, in fact i have
then now quite often outside of meditation also.
Rigpa is a presence of 'yourself' that is connect to everything in
the universe. That is probably why the Buddha say that there is 'no
self'. All is connect to all in the Dharmakaya. Rigpa is a part of
the Dharmakaya. When in the state, there is no separation into you
or me... We are all one thing which cannot be described.
However, I must say that even now, while reading this, we are
already the rigpa. We do not realise this is because we THINK we
are just the mind/personality. The mind/personality is a REFLECTION
from rigpa. It is not the true self. If you understand what I am
write, you may get a sudden awakening/realisation. And if the
realisation is deep enough, your viewpoint or way of seeing the
world will change.
Just my 2 cents...
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:From a very old post... 03 December 2004... by Longchen:
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/100855
Hi Sangha,
I am in no position to say whether Pure presence is nibbana. I can only write from my own experience and understanding.
This pure presence is called Rigpa in Tibetan Buddhism. I am not a Buddhist in this life, but I was a Tibetan Monk of Nyingma school several lifetimes ago. That is why I still have a lot of interest in Buddhism.
About Rigpa, when we experience it. It is formless and empty and at the same time infinite and all pervading. It is NOT BLISS. Bliss is a samadhi state but it is not the true nature yet, it is still a state in the mind. I have bliss experiences also, in fact i have then now quite often outside of meditation also.
Rigpa is a presence of 'yourself' that is connect to everything in the universe. That is probably why the Buddha say that there is 'no self'. All is connect to all in the Dharmakaya. Rigpa is a part of the Dharmakaya. When in the state, there is no separation into you or me... We are all one thing which cannot be described.
However, I must say that even now, while reading this, we are already the rigpa. We do not realise this is because we THINK we are just the mind/personality. The mind/personality is a REFLECTION from rigpa. It is not the true self. If you understand what I am write, you may get a sudden awakening/realisation. And if the realisation is deep enough, your viewpoint or way of seeing the world will change.
Just my 2 cents...
Wah... this is quite an old post. My experiences have changed much since then...
Don't think it is really accurate. Hehe...
But, i think AEN's post serves to show that even after the initial awakening, one is still prone to errors of interpretations. And that it really takes more stages of insights and realisation to deepen the experiences and understanding.
For that, Buddha is a meditator and teacher par excellence. His depth of realisation is beyond that of other mystics whom had transcendental and mystical experiences.
Originally posted by longchen:Wah... this is quite an old post. My experiences have changed much since then...
Don't think it is really accurate. Hehe...
But, i think AEN's post serves to show that even after the initial awakening, one is still prone to errors of interpretations. And that it really takes more stages of insights and realisation to deepen the experiences and understanding.
For that, Buddha is a meditator and teacher par excellence. His depth of realisation is beyond that of other mystics whom had transcendental and mystical experiences.
Haha ic...
Yes what you said is very true.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Actually not true. Intellectual ability is not related to Buddhahood at all, and being intellectual does not make one an inch closer to Buddhahood. There are lots of intellects who are far far away from enlightenment.
Errr..I am referring to animals...human has higher chance compare to animal releam...
There are people who learn buddhism faster..that is due to their previous life who has cultivate buddhism..and the continuation of this life(æ…§æ ¹ï¼‰....as you mention intellect does not differ..i do agreed ..but...I believe in å› ç¼˜...if you have the 缘 with buddhism..you be learning it this life..or you may be in other religion..but all are the same..morality teaching a person to be good..that is on a more logical aspect..knowledge is power...yet application is the most formost weapon..there are many things which you can learn from books...you have to learn in different times in life...
As for 慧能大师...he has strong æ…§æ ¹...compare to 神秀..his wisdom is very far above him..but the level of his wisdom is not everyone can be attained...
神秀 koan..are more 有形..慧能 is more on æ— å½¢..But both are great Chan master....where it has two separate sect..
Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
Errr..I am referring to animals...human has higher chance compare to animal releam...There are people who learn buddhism faster..that is due to their previous life who has cultivate buddhism..and the continuation of this life(æ…§æ ¹ï¼‰....as you mention intellect does not differ..i do agreed ..but...I believe in å› ç¼˜...if you have the 缘 with buddhism..you be learning it this life..or you may be in other religion..but all are the same..morality teaching a person to be good..that is on a more logical aspect..knowledge is power...yet application is the most formost weapon..there are many things which you can learn from books...you have to learn in different times in life...
As for 慧能大师...he has strong æ…§æ ¹...compare to 神秀..his wisdom is very far above him..but the level of his wisdom is not everyone can be attained...
神秀 koan..are more 有形..慧能 is more on æ— å½¢..But both are great Chan master....where it has two separate sect..
Animals cannot practice in that lifetime, they cannot attain enlightenment within that lifetime, but their Buddha-Nature is not a single bit less than a fully enlightened being and thus they will attain enlightenment in future lifetimes as a human. Why? Their ignorance and whatever karmic obscurations are only Temporary clouds obscuring the sky. In reality the presence and clarity of Buddha Nature is complete and uninterrupted. "Your" Buddha-Nature is not a single bit less than Shakyamuni Buddha's Buddha-Nature. And when a person attains Buddhahood what does he see? The same self-perfected Buddha-Nature since beginningless beginning that was ever-present and has never left whether you were in hell, in animal realm, in human realm or the gods realm. It is as Heart Sutra described -- not produced, not destroyed, not defiled, not pure, and they neither increase nor diminish. Its nature is luminosity/pure awareness and its essence is emptiness.
If you have read my reply to rokkie, you'll understand why Buddha-Nature can never "increase", "decrease", or be "more", "less" etc. Buddha-Nature is like the infinite, limitless sky and our ignorance are like clouds temporarily blocking the sky. The sky (the Buddha Nature) is the same whether for the animal or for the Buddha. The Buddha simply no longer have that layer of clouds obscuring his full view.
Furthermore there is no "my Buddha Nature", "your Buddha Nature", "me", "you", "mine", "yours" in Buddha-Nature -- Buddha-Nature is like the sky that is infinite -- no boundaries and divisions are possible -- that is our true nature. All notions of "me" and "you" are illusory -- Buddha Nature is vast luminous emptiness with completely no separation at all. All qualities, merits, wisdom are already inherent in Buddha Nature but temporarily obscured. Since in Buddha-Nature there is no "you" and "me", how can we compare one's Buddha-Nature with another? "I", "me", "mine", "you", "yours", are simply illusions. Reality is boundless -- no boundaries, empty, luminous.
The emptiness and the absence of self is in fact Tathagathagarbha/Buddha-Nature. And there are many names we attribute to this sparking pure awareness known as Buddha-Nature/Tathagatha-garbha, etc. Padmasambhava says:
6.
As for this sparkling awareness, which is called "mind,"
Even though one says that it exists, it does not actually exist.
(On the other hand) as a source, it is the origin of the diversity of all the bliss of Nirvana and all of the sorrow of Samsara.
And as for it¡¯s being something desirable; it is cherished alike in the Eleven Vehicles.
With respect to its having a name, the various names that are applied to it are inconceivable (in their numbers).
Some call it "the nature of the mind" or "mind itself."
Some Tirthikas call it by the name Atman or "the Self."
The Sravakas call it the doctrine of Anatman or "the absence of a self."
The Chittamatrins call it by the name Chitta or "the Mind."
Some call it the Prajnaparamita or "the Perfection of Wisdom."
Some call it the name Tathagata-garbha or "the embryo of Buddhahood."
Some call it by the name Mahamudra or "the Great Symbol."
Some call it by the name "the Unique Sphere."
Some call it by the name Dharmadhatu or "the dimension of Reality."
Some call it by the name Alaya or "the basis of everything."
And some simply call it by the name "ordinary awareness."
BTW, the school of 神秀 doesn't really utilize koans to what I know. It is the tradition of Linji (Rinzai), the sudden awakening school, that emphasizes the use of koans.
Padmasambhava:
4.
Emaho!
It is the single (nature of) mind, which encompasses all of Samsara and Nirvana.
Even though its inherent nature has existed from the very beginning, you have not recognized it;
Even though its clarity and presence has been uninterrupted, you have not yet encountered its face.
Even though its arising has nowhere been obstructed, still you have not comprehended it.
Therefore, this (direct introduction) is for the purpose of bringing you to self-recognition.
Everything that is expounded by the Victorious Ones (Buddhas) of the three times
in the eighty-four thousand Gateways to the Dharma.
Is incomprehensible (unless you understand intrinsic awareness).
Indeed, the Victorious Ones do not teach anything other than the understanding of this.
Even though there exist unlimited numbers of scriptures, equal in their extent to the sky,
yet with respect to the real meaning, there are three statements that will introduce you to your own intrinsic awareness.
This introduction to the manifest Primordial State of the Victorious One
is disclosed by the following method for entering into the practice where there exists no antecedent or subsequent practices.
Originally posted by Bodhi hut:I believe in å› ç¼˜...if you have the 缘 with buddhism..you be learning it this life..or you may be in other religion..but all are the same..morality teaching a person to be good..
Buddhism is different from other religions because Buddhism is the religion leading one out of the 6 realms, while other religions are religions of the 6 realms. Other religions teaches people to avoid evil and do good, but only Buddhism teaches about purifying the mind and awakening.
I posted before:
诸�莫�,众善奉行 ,自净其�，是诸佛教
Many people say 'do good, avoid evil' is Buddhism. But if you 诸�莫�,众善奉行 (avoid all evil, do all good) but never 自净其� (purify your mind), then what you are cultivating is merely worldly blessings of human and devas... not different from other religions.
Please note that Not every religion/teaching that teaches "Do good,
avoid evil" is considered Buddhism. In Buddhism other than "do
good, avoid evil", what is essential is "purify our mind".
Do good, avoid evil, is merely prevent bad karma and make good
karma, the highest is rebirth in heaven, but not liberation nor
enlightenment.
Please read:
唯佛宗世界人乘佛教：净化人心
www.rencheng.com
Ven Shen Kai
圣开导师说：“å¦ä½›ä¿®è¡Œè¦�净化人心，唯有人 心净化，人类æ‰�有幸ç¦�，世间æ‰�有快ä¹�。”
å› æ¤åœ£å¼€å¯¼å¸ˆæ��倡“é�©å¿ƒ”，所谓é�©å¿ƒå°±æ˜¯æ”¹ é€ è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒï¼Œå‡€åŒ–è‡ªå·±çš„å¿ƒã€‚
人 人都有心，我们的心是å�ƒå�˜ä¸‡åŒ–çš„ï¼Œä¸Šå¤©å ‚ï¼Œ 下地狱，在å…é�“é‡Œè½¬è½®å›žï¼Œéƒ½æ˜¯äººå¿ƒæ‰€é€ å‡ºæ�¥ 的。人心善则有善的感应；人心æ�¶åŒ–了，自然
感应ç§�ç§�苦æ�¼ä¸�如æ„�ã€‚å°±å› ä¸ºå½“ä»Šä¸–ç•Œäººå¿ƒè¶‹å�‘æ�¶åŒ–，有了贪嗔痴ç‰æ— 明 愚痴的心念，æ�€ç›—æ·«ç‰ä¸€åˆ‡ä¸�好的事情就产生
的，人类的幸ç¦�é€�æ¸�å‡�少，而å…é�“è½®å›žä¹Ÿæ˜¯å› äººå¿ƒçš„æ�¶åŒ–å½¢æˆ�的。世间许 多人类的ä¸�å¹¸ï¼Œå°±æ˜¯å› ä¸ºå�ƒå�ƒä¸‡ä¸‡çš„ä¸�善业所
感。而人身体所å�šçš„行为，å�£æ‰€è¯´çš„言è¯ï¼Œéƒ½ 是å�‘之于“æ„�”，æ„�å°±æ˜¯å¿ƒå¿µï¼Œäººç±»å°±æ˜¯å› ä¸º 没有智慧觉照，常常被自己
的心所欺骗，ä¸�æ˜Žå› æžœï¼Œä¸�知所å�šçš„事，对自 å·±æˆ–ä»–äººæœ‰åˆ©æˆ–æœ‰å®³ï¼Œå› æ„šç—´è€Œé€ æ�¶ä¸šï¼Œæ‰€ä»¥ ä¸�幸与痛苦也就跟ç�€æ�¥äº†ã€‚
许多宗教都是教人è¦�行善，ä¸�è¦�å�šæ�¶ï¼Œå”¯ç‹¬ä½› 教除了教人“诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œï¼Œä¼—善奉行”之外，还 教人è¦�“自净其æ„�”，æ„�念清净了，自然就没
有贪嗔痴，也就没有一切�好的行为。
很多人以为行善就是净化人心，以为诸æ�¶èŽ«ä½œ ï¼Œä¼—å–„å¥‰è¡Œï¼Œå°±æ˜¯æ¸…å‡€ï¼Œå…¶å®žè¿™æ ·è¿˜ä¸�够，è¦� 把æ„�也净了，把æ„�å�˜æˆ�觉，æ‰�是清净。å�ªè¦�å�š
到自净其�，就是净化人心。
心有污染的时候，我们就è¦�净化自己，用佛的 甘露æ�¥æŠŠå¿ƒæ´—干净，常常观心，ä¸�è®©è‡ªå·±çš„æ— æ˜Žç”Ÿèµ·ã€‚å¦‚æžœæˆ‘ä»¬çš„å¿ƒå‡€åŒ–äº†ï¼Œå®¶åºæ¯�一个人
也净化了，这个社会也就净化了，�使�个社 会都净化了，人类统统都净化了，那么我们这 个世间就�为人间净土了。
Your true nature is something never lost to you even in moments of delusion, nor is it gained at the moment of Enlightenment. It is the Nature of the Bhutatathata. In it is neither delusion nor right understanding. It fills the Void everywhere and is intrinsically of the substance of the One Mind.
~ Ch'an Master Huang Po
The Master (Huang Po) said to me: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measure, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you - begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifest in the Buddhas.
.
.
.
If you are not absolutely convinced that the Mind is the Buddha, and if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way. The Mind is the Buddha, nor are there any other Buddhas or any other mind. It is bright and spotless as the void, having nor form or appearance whatsoever. To make use of your minds to think conceptually is to leave the substance and attach yourselves to form. Awake only to the One Mind, and there is nothing whatsoever to be attained.
If you students of the Way do not awaken to this Mind substance, you will overlay Mind with conceptual thought, you will seek the Buddha outside of yourselves, and you will remain attached to forms, pious practices and so on, all of which are harmful and not at all the way to supreme knowledge.
.
.
Our original Buddha-Nature is, in highest truth, devoid of any atom of objectivity. It is void, omnipresent, silent, pure; it is glorious and mysterious peaceful joy - and that is all. Enter deeply into it by awakening to it yourself. That which is before you is it, in all its fullness, utterly complete. There is naught beside. Even if you go through all the stages of a Bodhisattva's progress towards Buddhahood, one by one; when at last, in a single flash, you attain to full realization, you will only be realizing the Buddha-Nature which has been with you all the time; and by the foregoing stages you will have added nothing to it at all. You will come to look upon those aeons of work and achievement as no better than unreal actions performed in a dream.
This is why the Tathagata said, "I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled enlightenment." He also said: "This Dharma is absolutely without distinctions, neither high nor low, and its name is Bodhi." It is pure Mind, which is the source of everything and which, whether appearing as sentient beings or Buddhas, or as the rivers and mountains of the world which has form, or as that which is formless, or penetrating the whole universe, is absolutely without distinctions, there being no such entities as selfness and otherness.
***
This pure Mind, the source of everything, shines forever and on all with the brilliance of its own perfection. But the people of this world do not awake to it, regarding only that which sees, hears feels and knows as mind. Blinded by their own sight, hearing, feeling and knowing, they do not perceive the spiritual brilliance of the source-substance. If they would only eliminate all conceptual thought in a flash, that source-substance would manifest itself like the sun ascending through the void and illuminating the whole universe without hindrance or bounds.
Therefore, if you students of the way seek to progress through seeing, hearing, feeling and knowing, when you are deprived of your perceptions your way to Mind will be cut off and you will find nowhere to enter. Only realize that, though real Mind is expressed in these perceptions, it neither forms part of them, nor is separate from them. You should not start reasoning from these perceptions, nor allow them to give rise to conceptual thought; yet nor should you seek the One Mind apart from them or abandon them in your pursuit of the Dharma. Do not keep them, nor abandon them, nor dwell in them, nor cleave to them. Above, below and around you, all is spontaneously existing, for there is nowhere which is outside the Buddha-Mind.
***
Suppose a warrior, forgetting he was already wearing his pearl on his forehead, were to seek for it elsewhere, he could travel the whole world without finding it. But if someone who knew what was wrong were to point it out to him, the warrior would immediately realize that the pearl had been there all the time.
So, if you students of the Way are mistaken about your own real Mind, not recognizing that it is the Buddha, you will consequently look for him elsewhere, indulging in various achievements and practices and expecting to attain realization through such graduated practices. But even after aeons of diligent searching, you will not be able to attain the Way. These methods cannot be compared to the sudden elimination of conceptual thought, in the certain knowledge that there is nothing at all which has absolute existence, nothing on which to lay hold, nothing on which to rely, nothing in which to abide, nothing subjective or objective.
Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
Errr..I am referring to animals...human has higher chance compare to animal releam...There are people who learn buddhism faster..that is due to their previous life who has cultivate buddhism..and the continuation of this life(æ…§æ ¹ï¼‰....as you mention intellect does not differ..i do agreed ..but...I believe in å› ç¼˜...if you have the 缘 with buddhism..you be learning it this life..or you may be in other religion..but all are the same..morality teaching a person to be good..that is on a more logical aspect..knowledge is power...yet application is the most formost weapon..there are many things which you can learn from books...you have to learn in different times in life...
As for 慧能大师...he has strong æ…§æ ¹...compare to 神秀..his wisdom is very far above him..but the level of his wisdom is not everyone can be attained...
神秀 koan..are more 有形..慧能 is more on æ— å½¢..But both are great Chan master....where it has two separate sect..
i think shenxiu stand for Theravada and huineng stand for mahayana,shenxiu's point is 身是è�©æ��æ ‘ï¼Œå¿ƒæ˜¯æ˜Žå‡€å�°ï¼Œæ—¶æ—¶å‹¤æ‹‚æ‹ï¼ŒèŽ«ä½¿æƒ¹å°˜åŸƒã€‚it make his point as well ,his point is you work to work hard to avoid your buddha nature obscuring .huineng 's teaching considered more ture in terms of mahayana ,and very popular among ppl in the lower classes.Because they grab a hope to be awakened.
Originally posted by rokkie:i think shenxiu stand for Theravada and huineng stand for mahayana,shenxiu's point is 身是è�©æ��æ ‘ï¼Œå¿ƒæ˜¯æ˜Žå‡€å�°ï¼Œæ—¶æ—¶å‹¤æ‹‚æ‹ï¼ŒèŽ«ä½¿æƒ¹å°˜åŸƒã€‚it make his point as well ,his point is you work to work hard to avoid your buddha nature obscuring .huineng 's teaching considered more ture in terms of mahayana ,and very popular among ppl in the lower classes.Because they grab a hope to be awakened.
Actually not really. It simply was that Shenxiu at that time has not awakened. But many people don't know, Shenxiu also attained enlightenment later on and was passed the Zen lineage.
As for Theravada, Theravadins have the same realisation as Hui-Neng but express it in different ways. The approach is also different because Theravadin follow a more gradual method.
BTW, contrary to popular misunderstandings, when Hui-Neng wrote the è�©æ��æœ¬æ— æ ‘ï¼Œæ˜Žé•œäº¦é�žå�°ï¼Œæœ¬æ�¥æ— 一物，何处惹尘埃, he has not attained great awakening. He has glimpses of his true nature but has not yet attained great awakening.. much less understood the true meaning of Mahayana. What he experiences is the formlessness of buddha-nature but not the non-duality of emptiness and form.
That is why the 5th patriarch rubbed that statement off with his shoe and says he is not there yet. He only attained the great awakening when meeting with the 5th patriarch later that night.
the thing is like this ,huineng �是在他们的寺庙里打�，he don't have enough reputation to become the succeding patriarch .
so when he write that poem,the fifth patriarch ,cannot praise him for awaken publicly.ä»–å�ªèƒ½ï¼Œæ™šä¸ŠæŠŠæƒ 能å�«åˆ° 他的房间，把衣钵给他，yibo is redeems as the simbol to succeding patriarch .then the fitth patrarch ask huineng to run away,some how ,he tell huineng something in secret ,may help him improve his enlightenment.
the non-duality u mention ,is quite seldom mention in chinese buddhism sutra ,i have never encounter.