How to go to western paradise

• sanath

  19 Apr 08, 00:39

  THAT's in the PALI Canon, so how can you use that to "judge" the Mahayana Canon? In the Mahayana Canons Sakyamuni Buddha even spoke about and met with the Buddhas in the various directions.

  Seriously, i do not know why those who adhere to the Pali Canon like to come in and try to "challenge" those who adhere to the Mahayana teachings, especially Pure Land (this is not the only forum this is happening), and end up in slandering the Buddha-dharma. You may not accept the Pure Land teachings, that is fine. But please, do not come in and try to find fault with every single aspect. No matter how much we try to tell you people, you all also will not accept the teaching, so each to his/her own, OK?

   

• sanath

  19 Apr 08, 00:48

  At the beginning and end of the Larger Sukhavativyuha Sutra, Sakyamuni Buddha asked Ananda and those gathered to hear the teaching to worship Amitabha, so in this way Sakyamuni Buddha did "meet" (or rather, contemplate) Amitabha Buddha.

  The beginning goes like this:

  Glorious features of the Buddha

  [3] At that time all the senses of the World-Honored One radiated joy, his entire body appeared serene and glorious, and his august countenance looked most majestic. Having perceived the Buddha's holy intention, the Venerable Ananda rose from his seat, bared his right shoulder, prostrated himself, and joining his palms in reverence, said to the Buddha, "World-Honored One, today all your senses are radiant with joy, your body is serene and glorious, and your august countenance is as majestic as a clear mirror whose brightness radiates outward and inward. The magnificence of your dignified appearance is unsurpassed and beyond measure. I have never seen you look so superb and majestic as today. With respect, Great Sage, this thought has occurred to me: 'Today, the World-Honored One dwells in the rare and marvelous Dharma; today, the World-Hero dwells in the Buddha's abode; today, the World-Eye concentrates on the performance of the leader's duty; today, the World-Valiant One dwells in the supreme Bodhi; today, the One Most Honored in Heaven realizes the Tathagata's virtue. The Buddhas of the past, present and future contemplate each other. How can this present Buddha not contemplate all other Buddhas?' For what reason does his countenance look so majestic and brilliant?"
  Then the World-Honored One said to Ananda, "Tell me, Ananda, whether some god urged you to put this question to the Buddha or whether you asked about his glorious countenance from your own wise observation."
  Ananda replied to the Buddha, "No god came to prompt me. I asked you about this matter of my own accord."
  The Buddha said, "Well said, Ananda. I am very pleased with your question. You have shown profound wisdom and subtle insight in asking me this wise question out of compassion for sentient beings. As the Tathagata, I regard beings of the three worlds with boundless great compassion. The reason for my appearance in the world is to reveal teachings of the Way and save multitudes of beings by endowing them with true benefits. Even in countless millions of kalpas it is difficult to come upon and meet a Tathagata. It is as difficult as seeing an udumbara flower, which blooms very rarely. Your question is of great benefit and will enlighten all heavenly and human beings. Ananda, you should realize that the Tathagata's perfectly enlightened wisdom is unfathomable, capable of leading innumerable beings to emancipation, and that his penetrating insight cannot be obstructed. With just one meal, he is able to live for a hundred thousand kotis of kalpas, or an incalculable and immeasurable length of time, or beyond. Even after that lapse of time, his senses will still be radiant with joy and show no signs of deterioration; his appearance will not change, and his august countenance will look just the same. The reason for this is that the Tathagata's meditation and wisdom are perfect and boundless and that he has attained unrestricted power over all dharmas. Ananda, listen carefully. I shall now expound the Dharma."
  Ananda replied, "Yes, I will. With joy in my heart, I wish to hear the Dharma."
  

  Near the end of the Sutra:

  Amida and the Pure Land shown to the audience

  [41] The Buddha said to Ananda, "Rise to your feet, rearrange your robes, put your palms together, and respectfully revere and worship Amitayus. Buddhas and Tathagatas in the lands of the ten quarters always praise with one accord that Buddha's virtues of non-attachment and unimpeded activity."
  Ananda stood up, rearranged his robes, assumed the correct posture, faced westward, and, demonstrating his sincere reverence, joined his palms together, prostrated himself on the ground and worshipped Amitayus.
  Then he said to the Buddha Shakyamuni, "World-Honored One, I wish to see that Buddha, his Land of Peace and Bliss, and its hosts of bodhisattvas and shravakas."
  As soon as he had said this, Amitayus emitted a great light, which illuminated all the Buddha-lands. The Encircling Adamantine Mountains, Mount Sumeru, together with large and small mountains, and everything else shone with the same (golden) color. That light was like the flood at the end of the period of cosmic change that fills the whole world, when myriads of things are submerged, and as far as the eye can see, there is nothing but a vast expanse of water. Even so was the flood of light emanating from Amitayus. All the lights of shravakas and bodhisattvas were outshone and surpassed, and only the Buddha's light remained shining bright and glorious.
  At that time Ananda saw the splendor and majesty of Amitayus resembling Mount Sumeru, which rises above the whole world. There was no place which was not illuminated by the light emanating from his body of glory. The four groups of followers of the Buddha in the assembly saw all this at the same time. Likewise, those of the Pure Land saw everything in this world.
  

• sofital

  19 Apr 08, 08:13

  i do not know why those who adhere to the Pali Canon like to come in and try to "challenge" those who adhere to the Mahayana teachings, especially Pure Land (this is not the only forum this is happening), and end up in slandering the Buddha-dharma.

  Please don't use challenge and slandering.I just want to highlight what is the differences between Pali and Mahayan

  canon.

• sanath

  19 Apr 08, 10:40

  Well most of us do know the differences between what is included in the Pali and Mahayana Canon (teachings). However, personally to me, the tone of your posts seem to rather "challenging", i do not know if the others who read this thread feel the same way or not. By using the Pali Canon to "judge" the Mahayana teachings, then definetly one will not get any satisfaction because the Mahayana Canon has teachings that are NOT in the Pali Canon. But that does not mean that the Mahayana Canon is less orthodox than the Pali Canon, since both were not committed to writing until centuries after the Buddha's Parinirvana.

  We serious welcome if one is serious about learning the Pure Land teachings, but one can only learn if one is humble enough. Trying to use one Canon against another would not yield any beneficial results, and would cause even more beginners to become confused.

  Gassho

• Bodhi hut

  19 Apr 08, 12:07

   

  The theravada and mahayana teaching are different...Mahayana teaching focus bodhisavatta way of life...

  I do not think using the Pali cannon to justified the Pureland teaching would come to any conclusion, as this would make the readers confused by the two cannon..

  In Amitabha sutra, Buddha is prasing about Amitabha of his infinite deeds and the place call Pureland which is due to his great vows, and likewise, Buddha also mention that all the Buddha in all directional is prasing him for telling the infinite of Amitabha and his great vows...

   

  Be it Pali or Mahayana cannon, buddhism ultimately only has one great teacher, that is  Buddha Shakyamuni, all the different cannon or sch of thought just act as a different channel to individual to adopt a suitable way of practise to gain enlightenment...greatly depends on your 因缘 that you will be studying which cannon...

• sofital

  19 Apr 08, 14:20

  Thanks for your sharing your Dhamma from Mahayana cannon.For me , finding the nature of dhamma in the body and mind is the most important.From Theravadda Buddhism, Theinngu  Sayadaw(Arahart)  teaching(http://www.theinngu.org), you can go from one place to another by different transportation method such as car,horse,bicycle,ship,aeroplanes,etc. For the same,there are different ways to go Nibbana.It is just a matter of different time to destination.'m studying all the different ways from different Arahart..

  If one learn Dhamma from Buddha Scripture, there are three main levels of knowledge one can get.I would like to explain with examples.

  Book knowledge

  Let say that one has never eaten the honey before and don't know about taste of honey in his life.This means one don't know the taste and characters of Dhamma in body and mind.In the book says honey is sweet.Honey is obtained from Honey bee.After one who don't know the taste of honey read this book about honey , he gets the book knowledge about honey.But he has not tasted honey yet.For the same thing,after one who don't know the taste of Dhamma read the Dhamma book, he get sthe book knowledge about dhamma.This is called book knowledge.

  Mind knowledge

  Let transfer from book knowledge to mind knowledge.

  One who already read about honey wants to eat the honey and find and taste the honey.He feel very sweet.He realize that honey is sweet and what is written in honey book is true.For the same, one already read about Dhamma want to find, practice and meditate Dhamma in the body and mind.He feel and realize the taste of Dhamma from the body and mind and what is written in dhamma book is true.This is mind knowledge.

  Let continue from mind knowledge to enlightenment knowlege

  One who already tasted honey compare the other tastes he has eaten before.He realize the honey is better than any other tastes in his life.He don't like to eat the other tastes anymore.His mind is cling to honey.For the same, one who already tasted the Dhamma will compare the natrue of Nibbana and Dhamma with other Dhamma .He realize that which one is good and bad Dhamma, what is the root cause of Dhamma for suffering in the life. He finally eliminates the root cause of Dhamma for suffering in his life.His mind is clinged to taste of  Nibbana.This is called enlighenment knowledge.

   

• Bodhi hut

  19 Apr 08, 14:52

   

  Yeah..everyone is born differently and everyone is living in different environment...many many way..but same destination...yet it still voice to hard work and strong faith..what you plant today you see your haverst in time to come....

   

  As what one of the member mention..humble is the way to learn....so lets move on...

• sinweiy

  23 Apr 08, 10:03

  plenty of downloadable video records where Purelanders are departed to PL.

   [往生实录]崔连俭居士 往生录_金 03-21
   [往生实录]æ�Žå½©èŠ±å¾€ç”Ÿå®žå½•_金陵寺 03-02
   [往生实录]何梅香往生实录_金陵寺 03-02
   [往生实录]邱ç�´å±…士往生录---金陵 01-18
   [往生实录]释广英比丘尼往生录-- 01-13
   [往生实录]孙树èŠ�居士往生录---金 01-02
   [往生实录]王庆è�Šå±…士往生实录-- 11-27
   [往生实录]王爱芬居士往生实录-- 11-27
   [往生实录]孟兆海居士往生实录-- 11-04
   [往生实录]å¼ æ¡�居士往生实录---金 11-04
   [往生实录]张建良居士往生实录-- 10-14
   [往生实录]王洪岩居士往生实录-- 10-14

  http://www.amtbjls.org/Soft/ShowNew.asp
  http://www.amtbjls.org/Index.html
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2956395456756812960

  during the deathbed, they do Buddha name recitation(nienfo), until they reached a state of non-confusion 一心ä¸�ä¹± or one-pointed samathi before they depart. they also have sighs like soft bodies, nice smell, brighted room, relics after cremated etcs.

  
  thus posted:
  This video clip showing a 14-year old girl who died while sitting in meditation. The girl practises in the Mogok tradition in Burma.

  Her body remained soft and flexible (as seen in the video) for the next three days with no smell. They later proceeded to cremate her.
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1104216929553846431

  (interesting that the sighs are almost similar.)

  /\

• sofital

  23 Apr 08, 11:05

  his video clip showing a 14-year old girl who died while sitting in meditation. The girl practises in the Mogok tradition in Burma.

  Note Mogok way is not for going to pureland.

• sinweiy

  23 Apr 08, 11:51

   

   

   

  note, best to rely on meaning, than on the word.

  pureland can be presented as neither going nor coming. 'going' is just a word. it's achieving a state of mind.

  "What is the Pureland really? The Pureland is one's own stainless primordial awareness. If, from moment to moment, you regain and retain your own primordial enlightened nature: that is the Pureland. Everything comes from your own mind. Understand that, remain there: that is the Pureland."

  /\

• sofital

  23 Apr 08, 12:02

  In Mogok way,the monks follow Pali canon.There are four kinds of persons (Sotapanna,Sakadagami,Anagami,and Arahant) according to their different enlightenments.These four persons are called Ariya.

• sofital

  23 Apr 08, 12:38

  Theinngu Arahart Quotes

  If one learn Dhamma from Buddha Scripture, there are three main levels of knowledge one can get.I would like to explain with examples.

  Book knowledge

  Let say that one has never eaten the honey before and don't know about taste of honey in his life.This means one don't know the taste and characters of Dhamma in body and mind.In the book says honey is sweet.Honey is obtained from Honey bee.After one who don't know the taste of honey read this book about honey , he gets the book knowledge about honey.But he has not tasted honey yet.For the same thing,after one who don't know the taste of Dhamma read the Dhamma book, he get sthe book knowledge about dhamma.This is called book knowledge.

  Mind knowledge

  Let transfer from book knowledge to mind knowledge.

  One who already read about honey wants to eat the honey and find and taste the honey.He feel very sweet.He realize that honey is sweet and what is written in honey book is true.For the same, one already read about Dhamma want to find, practice and meditate Dhamma in the body and mind.He feel and realize the taste of Dhamma from the body and mind and what is written in dhamma book is true.This is mind knowledge.

  Let continue from mind knowledge to enlightenment knowlege

  One who already tasted honey compare the other tastes he has eaten before.He realize the honey is better than any other tastes in his life.He don't like to eat the other tastes anymore.His mind is cling to honey.For the same, one who already tasted the Dhamma will compare the natrue of Nibbana and Dhamma with other Dhamma .He realize that which one is good and bad Dhamma, what is the root cause of Dhamma for suffering in the life. He finally eliminates the root cause of Dhamma for suffering in his life.His mind is clinged to taste of  Nibbana.This is called enlighenment knowledge.

   

• sinweiy

  23 Apr 08, 16:16

  and Mahayana is about Bodhisattva path.

  From one of the earliest texts in the Mahayana to "define" as it were, the meaning of bodhisattva and mahasattva:

  ��般若波羅蜜經�第一
  
  AṣṭasÄ�hasrikÄ� PrajñÄ�pÄ�ramitÄ� SÅ«tra 01
  
  ��第一
  Chapter One – Introduction
  
  {= Conze I THE PRACTICE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL MODES }
  
  ...
  
  {= Conze 1:3 The Meaning of ‘Bodhisattva’}
  
  須��白佛言：「世尊�所言�薩，�薩有何義？�
  SubhÅ«ti addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagavÄ�n! ‘bodhisattva’ it is said, what is the meaning of ‘bodhisattva’?”
  
  佛告須��：「為學一切法無障礙，亦 如實知一切法，是��薩義。�
  The Buddha replied to SubhÅ«ti: “One who trains in all dharmas without obstruction, and also knows all dharmas as they really are, this is said to be the meaning of ‘bodhisattva’.”
  
  {= Conze 1:4 The Meaning of ‘MahÄ�sattva’}
  
  須��白佛言：「世尊�若知一切法�為�薩義，復以何義，�為摩訶薩？�
  SubhÅ«ti addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagavÄ�n! if knowing all dharmas is said to be the meaning of ‘bodhisattva’, what then is the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’?”
  
  佛言：「當為大眾作上首，�為摩訶薩義。�
  The Buddha said: “They shall be paramount amongst the great assembly, this is said to be the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’.”
  
  �利弗白佛言：「世尊�我亦樂說，所以為摩訶薩義。�
  ÅšÄ�riputra addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagavÄ�n! I would also like to explain the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’.”
  
  佛言：「樂說便說。�
  The Buddha said: “Explain as you see fit!”
  
  �利弗白佛言：「世尊��薩為斷我見�眾生見�壽 者見�人見�有見無見�斷見常見等，而為說法，是�摩訶薩義。於是中心無所著，亦�摩訶薩義。�
  ÅšÄ�riputra addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagvÄ�n! A bodhisattva who teaches the Dharma in order to sever Ä�tman-view, living being-view, life-view, individual-view, existence-view, non-existence-view, nihilism-view, eternalism-view, and so forth, is said to be the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’. With regards to this, [their] minds are without grasping, this is also said to be the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’.”
  
  �利弗�須��：「何故於是中心無所著？�
  ÅšÄ�riputra asked SubhÅ«ti: “How, with regards to this, are their minds without grasping?”
  
  須��言：「無心故，於是中心無所著。�
  SubhÅ«ti said: “By way of non-mind[-ness], with regards to this, their minds are without grasping.”
  
  富樓那�彌多羅尼�白佛言：「世尊��薩發大莊嚴乘大乘故，是�摩訶薩義。�
  PÅ«rṇa MaitrÄ�yaṇīputra addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagavÄ�n! a bodhisattva, who brings forth the great adornment, and mounts upon the great vehicle, is said to be the meaning of ‘mahÄ�sattva’.”
  
  須��白佛言：「世尊�所言�薩發大莊嚴，云何�為發大莊嚴？�
  SubhÅ«ti addressed the Buddha, saying: “O BhagavÄ�n! it is said: ‘a bodhisattva brings forth the great adornment’. What is that said to be ‘bringing forth the great adornment’?”
  
  佛言：「�薩作是念：我應度無�阿僧祇眾生。度眾生已，無有眾生滅度者。何以故？諸法相爾。譬如工幻師，於四衢�，化作大眾，悉斷化人頭，於�云何？寧有傷有死者�？�
  The Buddha said: “The bodhisattva conceives the thought: ‘I should lead measureless asaṃkhya living beings [to nirvÄ�ṇa]’. Having led these living beings [to nirvÄ�ṇa], not any living beings have been led to nirvÄ�ṇa. For what reason? Thus is the [dharmic] nature of dharmas. It is like a master of creating illusions who, at a crossroads, makes a creation of a large assembly of people, and beheads all of those created people. What do you think? Is there anyone who is injured, or who dies?”
  
  須��言：「�也，世尊��
  SubhÅ«ti said: “No indeed! O BhagavÄ�n!”
  
  佛言：「�薩亦如是，度無�阿僧祇眾生已，無有眾生滅度者。若�薩�是事，�驚�怖，當知是�薩發大莊嚴。�
  The Buddha said: “The bodhisattva is also thus. Having led measureless asaṃkhya living beings [to nirvÄ�ṇa], there is not any living being who is led to cessation. If the bodhisattva on hearing this teaching, is neither startled nor afraid, one should know that this bodhisattva has brought forth the great adornment.”

   

  /\

• bohiruci

  24 Apr 08, 06:24

  A realisation of an Arhat is limited ,as he have not extinguished residual karma , how can he see the Buddhalands of Various Buddha .Remember ,Buddha mentioned Maitreya ,the next Buddha .

  Clearly the Arhatship is still a limited but suited goals for the little aspirant ,and its nothing wrong with how we look at it .

  Pali Canon carries one section on "Faith" ,this is the clear bridge that Buddha stresses the importance of Faith as a requirement of Arhatship .in Mahayana ,Faith becomes the focus of all practice , be it Tendai , Pureland or Esoteric

  The exchange of dialogue between Thai forest tradition and Korean zen have always been around .Please refrain whether Pali or Sanskri are "authentic" voices of Gautama Buddha as its clearly denying the vast wisdom of the Tathagatha ,Buddha Sakyamuni

   

  Ajahn Mun is the Theravada master who saw the Various Buddhalands in his deathbed .Thus i can conclude different teachers of dharma saw different things and interpreted differently their own interpretations

   

• sofital

  24 Apr 08, 09:15

  Hi, we already know for your description.We stop discussion

  about it.

• sofital

  24 Apr 08, 09:34

  Why we stop discussion?There is no meaning in argument between Theravadda and Mahayana view.

• bohiruci

  24 Apr 08, 10:47

  Originally posted by sofital:

  Why we stop discussion?There is no meaning in argument between Theravadda and Mahayana view.

  
  I am just stating what I know .This is a free world , not a closed society .

   

  thanks

   

   

• wilsonhao

  18 May 08, 21:10

  Faith is an important aspect to the rebirth of the Western Paradise. That, i agree with it. However, based on my observations i see people not practising good deeds and cultivate on one's emotion, letting go and so on. I just want to say that Faith is important but faith by itself isnt enough to bring you to western paradise. Its not like you keep chanting Amitabha sincerely and by the end of your life you are confirm into Western Paradise. Is this theory sounds like Christian theology? Praising the name of Jesus and prepare to go heaven? Thats impossible. You need to do good deeds.

  I can chant millions of Amitabha but if i continue to be self-centred, selfish and all unwholesome speech, actions and thoughts, you think i will go western paradise? Im not trying to say faith isnt important but what is equally important is Work.

  By the way, the  sutras has already said it very clearly that when one dies, if his/her relative members have invited the sanghas to chant the sutra or to make merit for the deceased, the deceased will only receive 1/7 of merits. Thats the maximum. The other 6/7 is normal cultivation and good deeds on the indivisual.

  Thus chant Amitabha or not, Buddha will not be discriminate and say "If you dont know me, you cant come to my paradise even though you have done good deeds". Who told you that? I am very sure Amitabha Buddha will encourage all to do good deed as the main aspect instead of just chanting his sacred name. Anyway, action speaks louder than words.

• jacqn

  18 May 08, 21:25

  i still think doing good deeds is the main way to be able to go western paradise. Chanting and mediating without doing good is not helpful. i am not saying TS not good.. just my personal beliefs....

• jacqn

  18 May 08, 21:27

  Originally posted by wilsonhao:

  Faith is an important aspect to the rebirth of the Western Paradise. That, i agree with it. However, based on my observations i see people not practising good deeds and cultivate on one's emotion, letting go and so on. I just want to say that Faith is important but faith by itself isnt enough to bring you to western paradise. Its not like you keep chanting Amitabha sincerely and by the end of your life you are confirm into Western Paradise. Is this theory sounds like Christian theology? Praising the name of Jesus and prepare to go heaven? Thats impossible. You need to do good deeds.

  I can chant millions of Amitabha but if i continue to be self-centred, selfish and all unwholesome speech, actions and thoughts, you think i will go western paradise? Im not trying to say faith isnt important but what is equally important is Work.

  By the way, the  sutras has already said it very clearly that when one dies, if his/her relative members have invited the sanghas to chant the sutra or to make merit for the deceased, the deceased will only receive 1/7 of merits. Thats the maximum. The other 6/7 is normal cultivation and good deeds on the indivisual.

  Thus chant Amitabha or not, Buddha will not be discriminate and say "If you dont know me, you cant come to my paradise even though you have done good deeds". Who told you that? I am very sure Amitabha Buddha will encourage all to do good deed as the main aspect instead of just chanting his sacred name. Anyway, action speaks louder than words.

  100% agree!! if not its really like christianity.... that why i believe in buddhism

• jacqn

  18 May 08, 21:31

  Originally posted by Bodhi hut:

  
  When there is desire..then even with faith or vow, you will not attain to any Pureland...Amitabha land is one of the land..there are many others buddha land as well...

   

  As one has faith n vow..but the mind must be purified...and in Amitabha sutra does mentioned about this 一心�乱...we have to have compassion and bodhi heart..in Mahayana buddhism these are consider a very important factor in practising..

  if one has strong faith and vow and has attained pure heart, one will naturally let go of desires. if not, he cannot be said to have enough faith.

   

• werther

  19 May 08, 06:47

  Originally posted by jacqn:

  if one has strong faith and vow and has attained pure heart, one will naturally let go of desires. if not, he cannot be said to have enough faith.

   

  
  There a nice way in putting it.

  I didn't think of that too.......