四大皆空

• Lefti68

  24 May 08, 13:20

  Wats d meaning of it?

• sinweiy

  24 May 08, 14:02

  四大 is the 4 abstract elements(or matters),

  being units of abstract earth, abstract waters, abstract air and abstract heat. They are so tiny and so abstract, that they cannot be discerned by any human sense organs or scientific instruments. Only the Buddhas can discern them. The four basic abstract elements should not be mistken as the ordinary earth, water, heat and wind. They are energies.

  And 'energies' mean they are always changing, hence they are 皆空, "empty" in nature.

  /\

• rokkie

  24 May 08, 14:21

  as sinweiy said sida in chinese means 地水风�。Buddhism consider that every single object is comprised of these four element.

• rokkie

  24 May 08, 14:25

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  四大 is the 4 abstract elements(or matters), being units of abstract earth, abstract waters, abstract air and abstract heat. They are so tiny and so abstract, that they cannot be discerned by any human sense organs or scientific instruments. Only the Buddhas can discern them. The four basic abstract elements should not be mistken as the ordinary earth, water, heat and wind. They are energies.

  And 'energies' mean they are always changing, hence they are 皆空, "empty" in nature.

  /\

  i don't think they r really energies.Like 水，mean any liquid ,or any of the characteristic of liquid.In term of human it mean blood ,or any liquid in the body.Earth mean things that is solid,so on and so fore

• Lefti68

  24 May 08, 15:03

  How does it apply to mankind?

• rokkie

  24 May 08, 15:06

  earth means flesh ,anything solid in the body ,water means blood ,wind means flow of energy,fire means heat ,or functioning of the body

• Lefti68

  24 May 08, 15:20

  How to reach to dat stage of 四大皆空in order to be 解脱?

• rokkie

  24 May 08, 15:23

  go to find a buddhism master ,learn to him,or u can self learn,by reading buddhism stuff

• An Eternal Now

  24 May 08, 15:33

  http://www.blia.org/english/publications/booklet/pages/06.htm

  III. The Third Characteristic: Sunyata

  Ordinarily, people do not understand the concept of sunyata (emptiness). They generally think that sunyata means nothingness. This is a misconception. We have already mentioned the phenomenon of Conditioned Genesis, in which all dharmas arise from causes and conditions and they cease because of causes and conditions. All dharmas come into being because of the coming together of the right causes and conditions; they cease due to the disintegration of the causes and conditions that were responsible for their formation. Therefore the nature of all dharmas is emptiness. That is, dharmas do not have any true self-nature, so they are described as "empty."

  Commonly people limit their understanding of sunyata to mean "absolute nothingness," yet consider existence real. According to the Buddhist teachings, existence—arising due to Conditioned Genesis—is illusory yet does not preclude emptiness. Similarly, Sunyata—the nature of all existence is fundamentally empty—means nonsubstantiality but does not preclude existence. This is the concept of Conditioned Genesis with nature of emptiness.

  I would like to explain sunyata as follows:

  A. The four great elements are fundamentally empty; the five aggregates do not have true existence.

  Sunyata is the infinite meaning of Mahayana Buddhism. It is not "absolute nothingness." It is a constructive and revolutionary concept. It is used by the Mahayanists to explain the existence of this world and universe. "The four great elements are fundamentally empty; the five aggregates do not have true existence" is how the Buddha explained of the nature of all events and phenomena of this world and universe after he attained enlightenment. All dharmas exist due to the coming together of the four great elements. What are the four great elements? They are earth, water, fire, and wind. Earth has the property of solidity, water has the property of humidity, fire has the property of heat, and wind has the property of mobility. Why do we say that the four elements of earth, water, fire, and wind are great? Because everything in this world and universe is formed by these four elements. For example, a cup is made by firing clay that is constructed in the shape of a cup. Clay belongs to the earth element. Water is added to the clay in order to shape the clay into a cup. The cup is then fired. After being fired, the cup is cooled and dried by the wind. So, all four great elements are involved in the formation of this cup.

  Similarly, a human being is also formed by the unity of the four great elements. For example, our skin, hair, nails, teeth, bones, and flesh all belong to the earth element. Our blood, saliva, and urine belong to the liquid element. Our body heat belongs to the fire element, and our breathing and movement belong to the wind element. Thus, if any one of these four great elements is out of balance, we will become ill. If these four great elements disintegrate, we will no longer exist.

  From these examples, we therefore can see that the physical body is formed by the combination of the four great elements. Furthermore, the mind, or the consciousness according to our usual understanding, is only a combination of the five aggregates—rupa (form), vedana (feeling), samjna (perception), samskara (mental formation), and vijnana (consciousness). Life is the result of the combination of causes and conditions, without a true independent self-nature; a physical body with consciousness is only an existence due to a combination of factors. When the uniting force of these causes and conditions is exhausted, the previously formed combination of these factors dissolves, and the living being will no longer exist. Where then is the separate true self? Therefore, the Buddha teaches thus, "The four great elements are fundamentally empty; the five aggregates do not have true existence."

  Once, Tung-p'o Su of the Sung Dynasty went to visit Ch'an Master Fo Yin. When Tung-p'o Su arrived, Ch'an Master Fo Yin was teaching the Dharma. When the Ch'an Master saw Tung-p'o Su, he said to him, "Mr. Su, where did you just come from? We do not have a place for you to sit."

  Tung-p'o Su replied immediately, "Master, if there is no seat, why don't you lend me your four great elements and five aggregates (your body) to use as my meditation seat?"

  Ch'an Master Fo Yin said, "I have a question for you. If you can give me a satisfactory answer, I will let you use me as your seat. If you cannot give me an answer, then please leave your jade belt behind as a souvenir. Here is my question: my four great elements are all empty and my five aggregates do not have true existence. May I ask where you are going to sit?"

  Tung-p'o Su could not give him an answer. So he took off his jade belt, which had been presented to him by the emperor, and left.

  From this story we can see that the human body, an illusive combination of the four great elements and five aggregates, does not have any true substantial essence for us to attain.

  B. What is sunyata?

  In the Mahayana teaching, the word "sunyata" integrates the Three Dharma Seals. Sunyata is the Ultimate Truth. It is an important concept in Buddhism and a special characteristic of Buddhism that distinguishes it from other worldly teachings.

  Most people do not understand what sunyata means. They think it means complete nullity and nothingness. This is just not so. Sunyata is, in fact, a most profound and wonderful philosophy. If one can truly understand sunyata, one can understand the whole of Buddhism. What, then, is sunyata? It is simply not possible to explain the meaning of sunyata in just one sentence. The Treatise That Explains Mahayana gives ten definitions of sunyata. Although these definitions cannot thoroughly explain the true meaning of sunyata, they are very close.

  The ten definitions of sunyata, as explained in this treatise, are as follows:

  1. Sunyata has the meaning of non-obstruction. Like space, it can be found everywhere and will not obstruct any material existence.
  2. Sunyata has the meaning of all-pervasiveness. Like space, it is pervasive and reaches everywhere.
  3. Sunyata has the meaning of equality. Like space, it does not make any distinctions but treats all equally.
  4. Sunyata has the meaning of vastness. Like space, it is vast, limitless, and boundless.
  5. Sunyata has the meaning of formlessness. Like space, it has no shape or form.
  6. Sunyata has the meaning of purity. Like space, it is always pure.
  7. Sunyata has the meaning of motionlessness. Like space, it is always still, completely beyond any form of arising and decaying.
  8. Sunyata has the meaning of absolute negation. It negates all facts and theories.
  9. Sunyata has the meaning of emptying sunyata itself. It negates all concepts of independent self-nature and also destroys all attachment to the concept of sunyata.
  10. Sunyata has the meaning of unattainability. Like space, it cannot be attained or held.

  Although these ten definitions cannot entirely describe the truth of sunyata, nevertheless, together they provide us with a vivid depiction for better understanding of this important Buddhist teaching.

  C. How can sunyata be perceived?

  1. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of continuation. All existence is empty because all phenomena are impermanent. Just like on the Yangtze River, the waves from behind push the waves in front; a new generation replaces an older generation. Time continues without interruption, and worldly events are always of suffering, emptiness, and impermanence. Through the continuation of impermanence, we can see emptiness.
  2. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of cycles. All dharmas of the universe are governed by the Law of Cause and Effect. A cause will become an effect, which in turn will become a cause. For example, when the appropriate amount of sunlight, air, water, and soil are present, a seed will germinate, bloom, and produce fruit. The seed is the cause, the fruit is the effect. When the necessary external conditions are present, the seeds from the fruit will germinate, bloom, and produce more fruit. In this case, the fruit, which was the effect, has become the cause. Through this continuous cycle wherein cause becomes effect and effect becomes cause, we can see sunyata.
  3. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of combinations. All dharmas arise due to the harmonious unity of various causes and conditions. For example, the human body is made up of the harmonious unity of skin, flesh, bones, blood, and various bodily fluids. If the human body is separated into these components, there will no longer be such existence as an independent human body. Thus, we can understand sunyata through Conditioned Genesis.
  4. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of relativity. All dharmas of this universe are relative, such as father versus son and teacher versus student. For example, when a son gets married and has a son, he himself becomes a father. Likewise, a student who learns enough can then become a teacher. Thus, all things are relative and therefore are unreal and empty.
  5. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of appearance. There is no set standard or measure for how we view appearance. For example, light from a candle may appear bright to our eyes, but when an electric lamp is switched on, the candlelight now seems dim. Further, the speed of an automobile may seem fast to us until it is compared to the speed of an airplane. These examples allow us to realize that the appearance of all events and all phenomena are viewed by us without a set standard; we can therefore realize sunyata.
  6. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of terms. Each dharma in this universe is called by a different name. These names are nonsubstantial in nature and thus empty. For example, a female baby is called a baby girl. When she is grown up, she is referred to as Miss. When she gets married, she will be addressed as Mrs. When she has her own children, they will call her "mother." When she is old and has grandchildren, she is then known as a grandmother. From a baby girl to grandmother, she is still the same person, yet her titles are different. Thus, we can understand sunyata through the illusiveness of terms.
  7. Sunyata can be perceived through the illusive nature of different viewpoints. Different people with different states of mind will have differing views on the same thing or event. For example, on a snowy night, a poet sitting in front of the window inside a warm and cozy house hopes that the snow will continue through the night, so that he can enjoy more beautiful scenery. But, a beggar shivering in the cold hopes that the snow will stop soon; otherwise, he will not be able to make it through the night. Thus, we can understand sunyata through different viewpoints.
• An Eternal Now

  24 May 08, 15:36

  Originally posted by Lefti68:

  How to reach to dat stage of 四大皆空in order to be 解脱?

  First of all, the four elements are already empty. Emptiness is the nature of all phenomena.

  To realise emptiness, it requires practicing authentic dharma under guidance of an enlightened teacher.

• sinweiy

  24 May 08, 18:49

  Originally posted by rokkie:

  i don't think they r really energies.Like 水，mean any liquid ,or any of the characteristic of liquid.In term of human it mean blood ,or any liquid in the body.Earth mean things that is solid,so on and so fore

  no, the quotation is from Abhidhamma. "energy" is correct as they cannot be destroy non discern. blood or liquid is discernable by our eyes, and in itself contain All 4 abstract elements. just that the Abstract water is like active in 99.99% while the other 3 abstract element is domian in 0.001%. (the percentage is just an illutration).

  Abstract water æ°´ mean "To flow and to paste". Abstract earth mean "To harden and to soften". etc(see below).

  http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/articles/cosmos1.htm

  MATTER

        As mentioned in previous chapter, the basic abstract elements or smallest matters (maha bhuta) in the cosmos are the following;

  Basic Abstract Elements & Characteristics :- 

  (1) Abstract earth (pathavi)

  To harden and to soften

  (2) Abstract water (apo)

  To flow and to paste

  (3) Abstract Air (vayo)

  To expand and to contract

  (4) Abstract heat (tejo)

  To heat and to cool

   These abstract elements are permanent in existence and infinite in number. They cannot be destroyed. They have been existing since time without beginning and shall continue to exist in the infinite future. Although their number is infinite, yet no new one can be produced or made.

  there's from A Dictionary of Chinese Buddhist Terms:-

  http://web.archive.org/web/20070531182625/http://www.hm.tyg.jp/~acmuller/soothill/soothill-hodous.html

   

  四大 mah�bhūta, 四界; 四大界. The four elements of which all things are made; or the four realms; i. e. earth, water, fire, and wind (or air); they represent 堅, 濕, 煖, and 動 solid, liquid, heat, and motion; motion produces and maintains life. As 實 active or formative forces they are styled 四界 (四大界) ; as � passive or material objects they are 四大; but the �實論 Satyasiddhi ś�stra disputes the 實 and recognizes only the �.

  四大�調 The inharmonious working of the four elements in the body, which causes the 440 ailments; cf. 四蛇.

  http://www.wiki.cn/wiki/%E5%9B%9B%E5%A4%A7

  �四大(caturmahabhuta)】 sida

  佛教术语。指地�水���风为四�构�物质的基本元素。��四界。界，是�类的��，谓地�水���风四�物体�能���自的形�，�相紊乱。

  /\

• rokkie

  25 May 08, 17:21

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  no, the quotation is from Abhidhamma. "energy" is correct as they cannot be destroy non discern. blood or liquid is discernable by our eyes, and in itself contain All 4 abstract elements. just that the Abstract water is like active in 99.99% while the other 3 abstract element is domian in 0.001%. (the percentage is just an illutration).

  Abstract water æ°´ mean "To flow and to paste". Abstract earth mean "To harden and to soften". etc(see below).

  http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/articles/cosmos1.htm

  there's from A Dictionary of Chinese Buddhist Terms:-

  http://web.archive.org/web/20070531182625/http://www.hm.tyg.jp/~acmuller/soothill/soothill-hodous.html

   

  http://www.wiki.cn/wiki/%E5%9B%9B%E5%A4%A7

  /\

  i do remember sth as what i have posted,and i don't get u of the cannot be destroy?Since every thing is empty and fragile ,why cannot be destroy.

   

  blood or liquid is discernable by our eyes, and in itself contain All 4 abstract elements.
  yes, but just like 物质 comprise of 分�，分�，comprise of 原�。still not the end,but we are talking about the material level.