Any sufi practioners here?
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hi, Sufism is the one path that unites all and it even predates Islam. All great men come from Afghanistan like Rumi ...even Zen buddhism was said to be handed down from sufi masters. So I'm wondering if anyone of you practise sufism?
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sufism is generally understood by scholars to be the inner or mystical dimension of islam.
according to wiki.
i wonder why they chose to use the word.. mystical. =/
anyone from the jedi knight order, and practice the force? -
I attended the sufi meditations here though I'm a non muslim...only chinese guy:)
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It was said to be a science not mysticism..it have different stages and led one to enlightenment... Anyone read idries shah book the sufis...interesting book
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I particularly like the unsentimental Sufi view of life: "A tortoise carries a stranded scorpion across a river on its back. The scorpion stings the tortoise, who indignantly protests, 'My nature is to be helpful. I have helped you and now you sting me.' 'My friend,' says the scorpion, 'your nature is to be helpful: Mine is to sting. Why do you seek to transform your nature into a virtue and mine into villainy?'" With us, this tale is often quoted as an example of the wickedness of the scorpion and the helplessness of the tortoise. Poor little me. But these are psychologically sophisticated people. That people may enjoy suffering has only recently been accepted by us. Or that people may be brainwashed. Or that we are easily conditioned. Psychology is very much a "language" of our time. And so in this time it is often within this framework that they teach. A Perfumed Scorpion (by Idries Shah) for instance. I have found nothing as subtle, comprehensive, perceptive and often surprising anywhere else, as the Sufi knowledge about the nature of the human being. Which may be abrasive. In one of the exchanges in this book which are traditionally used by Sufis to illustrate problems, the questioner asks about prayer. The answer: "Prayer depends on knowing how to pray and what it is for. The usual idea of prayer is merely emotional and performs a conditioning function." There are no simple messages here. The Sufis do not offer an indoctrination course. They say that our demand, often an unconscious one, to be indoctrinated and given "belief" is a barrier to what they have to offer. They insist, decade in and decade out--and always have done--that all human societies are based upon, and their continuity and growth reinforced by, the use of hope, fear and repetition. This structure is not visible to the majority of people, but it is employed in every type of organization, whether tribal, national, political, religious, recreational, educational or any other. "Because everyone is accustomed to being manipulated by hope and fear, because everyone assumes that repetition is necessary, the possible progress in analyzing this situation is virtually at a halt." "The Commanding Self" is a Sufi technical term for the false personality, which is made up of what a culture puts into a person--parents, schools, the zeitgeist. This false self is an enemy which has to be recognized for what it is and then by-passed (not destroyed) if the Sufi understanding is to be received. When I first read the Sufi contention that I am mere concoction of transient influences. I felt liberated, as if at last hearing news I had been waiting for. I know some people find it a threat. "What, me, a mere play of shadows? But there are more and more people who, perhaps because of the savage times we live in, which challenge us so directly, perhaps because of the way we all move about, forced to compare different cultures and to see ourselves as products of our own, welcome the news that what we really are is not what is to be seen, but is "something else," and "somewhere else." If our real self is initially only a "tiny shining precious thing," then it is capable of infinite expansion. The picture on the cover of the book is of a very ancient representation of the commanding self, like an angry biting lurid threatened, and threatening, animal. Some of us may be tempted to see this nasty beast as, too, an illustration of the frightening angers and paranoia of the world now. Our current mind-set, which is a passionately or dogmatically defended atheism, does not deter the Sufis, who say that it is only a different manifestation of the religious impulse, almost a religion in its own right. -- Doris Lessing nobel prize winner
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Originally posted by Catknight:
hi, Sufism is the one path that unites all and it even predates Islam. All great men come from Afghanistan like Rumi …even Zen buddhism was said to be handed down from sufi masters. So I’m wondering if anyone of you practise sufism?
Hi, I have recently written an article about the mystical core of all religions, and their relation with Buddhism.
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On the surface it seems very similar. For example, Hinduism teaches Self-realisation, Non-ego, and purportedly provides a path to enlightenment and liberation for its followers. (Mystical) Taoism, Christian Mysticism, Islamic Sufism, Judaist Kabbalah and so on are also very similar.
Because when we're talking about the core of religions, it's the mystics/contemplatives that are the 'highest level' practitioners... who seek to understand the truth of their religions not just by belief, theories or even feelings/emotions (common religious seekers may have powerful life-changing experiences or encounters with the divine force/spirit, or miracles, but Spirit/God will always seem to be "separate" from the "seeker" until they realise union/its true nature) but by complete union with the true essence of god.
But for the mystics, its a direct experience of the UNION with the Divine Presence of God, or in Hinduism they call it the realisation of the (true) Self, which is a non-personal Self, its the true self, the God-self. "God-consciousness". It's a complete dissolving of any sense of individuality into God/true-Self, a sort of non-dual experience (but not the kind of non-duality in Buddhism) and realising the true identity of luminous pure consciousness as God.
In Hinduism its the identity of atman with Brahman (God, the Whole). Means completely dropping false notions of self and become/realise the true divine mind.
In Christianity, Paul said: I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! (Gal. 2.20) -- see http://frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php
In Taoism, Chuang Tzu calls it entering the Divine, the One. The Tao. And the forgetting of the 'self'.
The falling away of self is common to all religions. But in Buddhism, No-Self is not a state or stage of the falling away of the ego or personality or a state of union with divine, it's actually a Dharma Seal or the nature of reality. And, there is no identification with an eternal witnessing consciousness as the Self, the view and experience of other mystics.
That means, those mystics experience Consciousness/Awareness as an Eternal Watcher (which is God), a non-judging and permanent watcher watching everything in life yet remaining unaffected and unchanged. But when non-duality is realised, it's seen that there is no Observer apart from Observed. The true face of consciousness is seen. Scenery sees, there is no seer. Sound hears, there is no hearer. Thought thinks, there is no thinker. All along the transience rolls and knows; no separate watcher is real or needed.
Also the core difference in Buddhism is the teaching of Dependent Origination, Emptiness. It's difficult to explain, but even for the Hindu Advaita-Vedantins for example when they experience pure consciousness, they will make Consciousness into a permanent luminous-void background reality where phenomenon arise and subsides within while the background is unchanged (notice the duality here)... they will fail to realise that consciousness is everything without a background. And furthermore, they will fail to see that consciousness and conditions cannot be separated, and the nature of consciousness is Empty.
For example, Shaivism which worships Shiva teaches that since all things are Shiva, and Shiva is real, everything is real. This is the realist point of understanding, but they will fail to understand that consciousness is Empty and inseparable from conditions.
I am not good at explaining, but just want to say that the subtlety of spirituality cannot be overlooked. Have a good understanding of No-Self, Emptiness/Dependent Origination, and everything will be very clear.
You probably read this, but if you haven't, this is our moderator Thusness's Six Stages of Experiences, from the realisation of the pure consciousness of I AM, to No-Self, to Emptiness. All are related to pure consciousness, but just that whether the true nature of pure consciousness is realised.
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
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BTW, Rumi's writings/poems sounds interesting. Maybe next time I might check out.
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I realised you can't taste the truth just by reading books , you need to engage and experience the way which by no means simple;for one you need a good mentor and guide
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
sufism is generally understood by scholars to be the inner or mystical dimension of islam.
according to wiki.
i wonder why they chose to use the word.. mystical. =/
anyone from the jedi knight order, and practice the force?You may like to read this article, explains Christian mysticism. http://frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php
It is not what you are thinking of...
Christianity has a 'tradition' of mysticism that is still very alive today, although not common. But it is not really a 'tradition' since it is not limited to any denomination or churches, though mystics have appeared in various churches.
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Originally posted by Catknight:
I realised you can’t taste the truth just by reading books , you need to engage and experience the way which by no means simple;for one you need a good mentor and guide
That's very true.
Reading good books is useful because it can help deconstruct our false views, as well as provide good pointers, but we still have to practice to truly experience what's said.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
You may like to read this article, explains Christian mysticism. http://frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php
It is not what you are thinking of...
Christianity has a 'tradition' of mysticism that is still very alive today, although not common. But it is not really a 'tradition' since it is not limited to any denomination or churches, though mystics have appeared in various churches.
BTW the most advanced Christian mystic that I currently know now is Bernadette Roberts. She spoke of the path after transforming union (or the 'True Self' stage), that which she calls No-Self.
Though I still find certain things lacking in what she said. It is more like an ongoing pathless [no entry and exit] nondual experience, but she still subtly sees it as a stage after the falling away of self. Hence she failed to see why Buddhism sees No-Self as a Dharma Seal [she spoke about this].
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/07/bernadette-roberts-interview.html
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Sufi miracles? Does the reader know that before becoming a Holy Place to Catholics in honor of Our Lady of Fatima, the shrine in Portugal was a holy place to Muslims who used to make pilgrimages there in honor of Muhammad’s (Peace be upon him) daughter Fatima (‘Alaiha Assalam)? So then, who really is Our Lady of Fatima? The same phenomenon occurred in Nagasaki, which was hit with the second atomic bomb three days later: a Franciscan monastery, founded by Saint Maximilian Kolbe, was left standing, unharmed by the blast while everything around it was leveled to the ground.
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I think we need a new forum called Esoteric paths:)
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Originally posted by Catknight:
hi, Sufism is the one path that unites all and it even predates Islam. All great men come from Afghanistan like Rumi …even Zen buddhism was said to be handed down from sufi masters. So I’m wondering if anyone of you practise sufism?
Actually, Zen Buddhism isn't handed down by Sufi masters.
Zen Buddhism is a direct lineage starting right from Shakyamuni Buddha in the wordless flower sermon to Mahakasyapa.
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There are sufi influences which I read in the Sufis by idries shah...
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Originally posted by Catknight:
There are sufi influences which I read in the Sufis by idries shah…
They sound similar, because they all have direct experience of the Source.
This does not mean one has influenced the other.
Also there are many levels of understandings and many subtleties to overcome...
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Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if there are some level of influences
Just like there are some level of influence from Taoism with Buddhism in China in many aspects related to culture, tradition, expression and so on..
But the essence on Emptiness [dependent arising] is still different...
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Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
sufism is generally understood by scholars to be the inner or mystical dimension of islam.
according to wiki.
i wonder why they chose to use the word.. mystical. =/
Mysticism, spirituality, religion... these words are epithets, or like bad swear words now.
I love the sufis. I've been maintaining a lil religious blog, more than half, if not most of the posts are of sufi texts.Heres one poem, simple and sweet from a classical text, usually made as a response against a certain frame of mind:
Even from earthly love thy face avert not,
since to the Real it may serve to raise thee.
Ere the alphabets are rightly apprehended
How canst thou know the pages of thy Koran?" -
Originally posted by Gauze:
Mysticism, spirituality, religion... these words are epithets, or like bad swear words now.
I
love the sufis. I've been maintaining a lil religious blog, more
than half, if not most of the posts are of sufi texts.Heres one poem, simple and sweet from a classical text:
Even from earthly love thy face avert not,
since to the Real it may serve to raise thee.
Ere the alphabets are rightly apprehended
How canst thou know the pages of thy Koran?"Are you the blog owner of http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/ ?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Are you the blog owner of http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/ ?
He is so famous.
Mines just a small one I'd like not to announce here. Eheh. -
Originally posted by Gauze:
He is so famous.
Mines just a small one I'd like not to announce here. Eheh.PM me. :)
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Ack.
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If science can answer all questions, then no one will believe in religions ...
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If everybody can walk on water, what is there to believe in?
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Originally posted by Catknight:
Sufi miracles?
Does the reader know that before becoming a Holy Place to Catholics in honor of Our Lady of Fatima, the shrine in Portugal was a holy place to Muslims who used to make pilgrimages there in honor of Muhammad’s (Peace be upon him) daughter Fatima (‘Alaiha Assalam)? So then, who really is Our Lady of Fatima? The same phenomenon occurred in Nagasaki, which was hit with the second atomic bomb three days later: a Franciscan monastery, founded by Saint Maximilian Kolbe, was left standing, unharmed by the blast while everything around it was leveled to the ground.
Urakami Tenshudo (Catholic Church in Nagasaki) in January 1946, destroyed by the atomic bomb, the dome of the church having toppled off.
<<with this picture from Nagasaki ,can you say God is not helping the Cathedral from
destruction of Nagasaki ?? think thrice >>
A Japanese report on the bombing characterized Nagasaki as "like a graveyard with not a tombstone standing".
<<a japanese shinto/ buddhist temple destroyed in nagasaki ,which doesnt mean God not helping this temple.Think thrice before making this comment >>
actually regarding about temple or monastery still stands after atomic bomb,we cant say for sure if there is power of God or Bodhisattva at work .Sometimes its by chance they are sheltered from the maximum impact of the explosion
Even in the Tsunami in Phuket or Sri Lanka ,everything was swept except the temple
the Power of Nature must not be ridiculed ..as destruction is not by any chances and destined functions ..
