Jogye Order says Korean government of favoring Christianity
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Originally posted by sanath:
Actually, the situation in Korea now is like Taiwan several decades ago, especially when Chiang Kai-shek (蔣介石) was president. Due to his wife, Song May-ling (宋美齡), several pro-christian law enactments were done, including the inclusion of Christmas (25 Dec) as a public holiday, although it was called 立法日 or 憲法日 or something like that instead of 耶(�)誕節.
However, whether a revival of Buddhism in Korea will happen, remains to be seen...
Wow din noe... din even noe Chiang Kai Shek was Christian.
p.s. my Master fled with Chiang Kai Shek in the same boat to Taiwan, and was his secretary, if I remember correctly.
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Originally posted by sanath:
That book is available at the Christian bookshop at B1 in Far East Square in Chinatown (forgot the name but it's run by St Andrew's Cathedral). There are also books on how to convert Muslims, and testimonies by converts from Islam to Christianity. Imagine if the Muslims found out...Ic... lol hopefully nothing happens. I also guess Singapore Muslims are more tolerant... hopefully.
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From what i remember, Chiang's mother was a staunch Buddhist, but Chiang became Christian due to Song May-ling, his wife, who's father was a well-known Christian preacher cum staunch supporter of the Chinese Republican movement.
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About Korean Buddhism, it seems it has gone west... especially Seon/Korean Zen where it's doing well there.
Maybe the next revival of Buddhism in Korea is by the new generation of Westerner Korean Buddhist teachers.
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Originally posted by sanath:
From what i remember, Chiang's mother was a staunch Buddhist, but Chiang became Christian due to Song May-ling, his wife, who's father was a well-known Christian preacher cum staunch supporter of the Chinese Republican movement.
I see..
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I see..
the soong sister's father was also famous for printnig bibles in chinese. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
the soong sister's father was also famous for printnig bibles in chinese.
True. And the soong sisters all married to the politically important men in china that time and, of cos, all their husbands became christians.
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Hope all discriminations end and the lesson learnt from this episode.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/372044/1/.html
South Korean Buddhists hold mass rally against alleged bias
Posted: 27 August 2008 1659 hrs
Photos 1 of 1 
South Korean Buddhist monks staged a hunger strike in a tent at the gate of the Jogye-sa Temple in Seoul on August 12.SEOUL - Tens of thousands of South Korean Buddhists rallied Wednesday in central Seoul to protest alleged pro-Christian bias by the government of President Lee Myung-Bak.
A crowd estimated by police at 55,000, including thousands of grey-robed monks, packed City Hall Plaza for the rare protest which began with the beating of a giant drum.
Organisers said Buddhist temples across the country rang bronze bells simultaneously.
"Buddhists united to stop religious bias," read one banner.
A police search involving Jigwan, head monk of the country's main Jogye Buddhist order, was the trigger for the mass rally.
"This is only the beginning of our struggle," said Jinhwa, a monk acting as spokesman for the organisers.
"This is the first time all 27 (Buddhist) orders have held a rally," he said, reiterating demands for an apology from Lee, the resignation of police chief Eo Cheong-Soo and legislation formally banning religious discrimination.
Buddhists have been uneasy over what they see as Christian bias since Lee, a Presbyterian church elder, came to power in February. They were unhappy when he included members of his church network in his first Cabinet.
An online map published by two ministries, showing Seoul's churches but not major Buddhist temples, also sparked anger.
In early July, seven activists wanted by police following protests against US beef imports took refuge in Seoul's Jogyesa temple.
Tensions grew late last month when police stopped a car carrying Jigwan outside the temple and searched the boot.
Police chief Eo apologised and disciplined two senior officers. But Buddhists accused police of treating the head monk like a criminal and called for Eo's resignation.
The government has tried to placate the Buddhists, with Culture Minister Yu In-Chon expressing regret Tuesday at the dispute.
Yu said regulations would be introduced to ban religious discrimination by government officials. Lee has urged his officials not to make controversial remarks on matters of faith.
But Buddhists were unappeased. Spokesman Jinhwa said that if their demands are not met, they would hold more protests across the country.
Official data shows South Korea has about 10 million Buddhists and 13.7 million Christians.
"This government is trying to evangelise the whole country and turn it into a Protestant state," said protester Suk Jin-Heung, carrying a banner demanding the resignation of the police chief.
He said many Protestant leaders were under the illusion that the country became a Protestant state when Lee was elected.
"But Lee must know he is not president only for Protestants but for Buddhists and Catholics too, and unbelievers as well," Suk told AFP.
- AFP/ir -
Our fellow Buddhists in Korea has won a minor respite against the inevitable... the eventual evangelization of Korea.
It is extremely sad that the Korean Buddhists cannot be left in peace to practice their religion... and that respects are only grudgingly extended when they express their anger. Incidentally, anger is one of the most destructive emotions in Buddhism.
According to the Dhammapada, hatred is never appeased by hatred and that hatred can only be appeased by love and compassion. But I also recall the parable of the scorpion and the turtle... All the love and compassion in all of the realms won't save me from the sting of a scorpion... since it is the scorpion's nature to sting anything other than a scorpion.
Maybe I am being overly pessimistic here... but how can Buddhists ensure their own survival in the face of the spiritual equivalent of forces like the scorpion, whose nature is to destroy and assimilate?
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Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
Our fellow Buddhists in Korea has won a minor respite against the inevitable... the eventual evangelization of Korea.
It is extremely sad that the Korean Buddhists cannot be left in peace to practice their religion... and that respects are only grudgingly extended when they express their anger. Incidentally, anger is one of the most destructive emotions in Buddhism.
According to the Dhammapada, hatred is never appeased by hatred and that hatred can only be appeased by love and compassion. But I also recall the parable of the scorpion and the turtle... All the love and compassion in all of the realms won't save me from the sting of a scorpion... since it is the scorpion's nature to sting anything other than a scorpion.
Maybe I am being overly pessimistic here... but how can Buddhists ensure their own survival in the face of the spiritual equivalent of forces like the scorpion, whose nature is to destroy and assimilate?
Yah, not easy...
Actually it's kind of a deja vu to me. I mean I remember in the early 80s in Singapore, many of us including the Malaysians, had the feelings that Singapore was a Christian nation too. Many temples ( taoist and buddist) were pulled down for various reasons while it seem that, or many felt that more churches were built instead. And that time many christains were very active in the community centers or RCs as well. At least I myself felt that way...
And if I would to recall correctly, it was reported in the ST many years ago( early 90s?) that more than 50%( or almost 70%) of the members were Christians in PAP. And understandably, more doubts and uneasiness were cast upon the ruling party whenever something sensitive towards traditional culture or religions issues were involved. It was definitely unhealthy.
However, all is well now. That's how I feel at least. Many Buddhists and Venerables had worked hard in building up the dharma studies centers in those difficult years and now the result is very possitive. The govt. has been very supportive towards Buddhism developement ( as well as other religions ) all these years and has try to be as secular as possible for the purpose of racial and religion harmony.
So I guess all is not lost as long as we Buddhists encourage and support each other in the dharma path, for the good of ourselves as well as for the good of all sentient beings. Or simply put, just walk on no matter how tough the road is in front of us.
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Originally posted by cycle:
Yah, not easy...
Actually it's kind of a deja vu to me. I mean I remember in the early 80s in Singapore, many of us including the Malaysians, had the feelings that Singapore was a Christian nation too. Many temples ( taoist and buddist) were pulled down for various reasons while it seem that, or many felt that more churches were built instead. And that time many christains were very active in the community centers or RCs as well. At least I myself felt that way...
And if I would to recall correctly, it was reported in the ST many years ago( early 90s?) that more than 50%( or almost 70%) of the members were Christians in PAP. And understandably, more doubts and uneasiness were cast upon the ruling party whenever something sensitive towards traditional culture or religions issues were involved. It was definitely unhealthy.
Yes... I remembered that too. Those were dark times. I think there was even an evangelical program in the radios.. I especially recall a particular piece of evangelical material, a car sticker (with English and Chinese versions) depicting someone proudly proclaiming that "I've Found it!"You seem to grow up in the same era as me... Wonder if you have come across that as well?
We in Singapore are more fortunate than the Koreans, for the highest echelons of PAP (the Lee's and GCT) are staunchly secular, even though at one time Christians made up about 70% of the ruling PAP...
No such luck with South Korea, their very top man seemed inclined to turn Korea into a Christian state.
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Here's a write-up in one of the Korean English papers:
South Korea: Religious misunderstandings must be resolved
Chosun Ilbo, Aug.28, 2008
Seoul, South Korea -- Around 200,000 Buddhist monks and laypeople rallied in downtown Seoul on Wednesday protesting against what they said was religious bias and constitutional infringement by the Lee Myung-bak administration. Police estimated 60,000 Buddhists took part in the rally in front of City Hall.
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Tens of thousands of South Koreans, including 7,000 monks, gathered at
City Hall in Seoul to protest against what they say is a pro-Christian
bias in President Lee Myung-bak's government. BBC pictureThe protesters issued a resolution saying a series of expressions of religious bias by public servants in the administration and President Lee Myung-bak’s tacit tolerance of such practices have undermined national harmony and the Constitution, which stipulates the prevention of religious discrimination and the separation of government and religion. They called on the president to break down the walls separating religious, social and regional groups and lead them to unity.
A survey by the National Statistical Office in 2005 showed that 24.97 million Koreans or 52.8 percent of the population adhered to a particular religion. There were 10.72 million Buddhists, 8.61 million Protestants and 5.14 million Catholics. There were also Won Buddhists and followers of “Chondogyo” as well as Confucians. It is simply a shame to see members of our largest religious group having to hold such a protest rally in the middle of the capital.
<!-- google_ad_client = "pub-7782858898060907"; google_ad_width = 336; google_ad_height = 280; google_ad_format = "336x280_as"; google_ad_type = "text"; //2007-03-22: bc-content google_ad_channel = "9968622564"; google_color_border = "FFFFFF"; google_color_bg = "FFFFFF"; google_color_link = "336699"; google_color_text = "000000"; google_color_url = "000000"; //-->In June and August, a computerized public transport information system operated by the Ministry of Land, Transport and Maritime Affairs and a digital map created by the Ministry of Education and Science omitted information on Buddhist temples. The same company was responsible for making both programs.
In March, it appointed as its vice president a person who had served as a senior advisor to the presidential Transition Committee. Buddhists not surprisingly raised suspicions of favoritism as this company went on to win two more large-scale map projects form the government, even after the Buddhist temple issue had created controversy.
The poster advertising one sermon held by a large Protestant church in June to convert police officers showed Police Commissioner Eo Cheong-soo standing side by side with the pastor of that church. It was placed on all notice boards at police stations across the country. There are more incidents that have angered Buddhists.
Religious
tolerance is prized in South Korea. Buddhism is the oldest religion but
officials say Christians make up about 29% of the population compared
to the Buddhists' 23%.. BBC picture >>The government must set up a team to investigate exactly what triggered the anger among Buddhists. If such acts were intentional, then the people involved should be punished, and if they were unintentional, they should be clearly explained and measures taken to prevent them from happening again.
On Monday, President Lee ordered public officials to be careful not to damage “religious harmony.” Ahead of the rally, Buddhists said they hoped the gathering, which aimed at voicing hope of an end to religious division and a beginning of unity, would not end up becoming a gathering to sever ties with the Lee administration. Countries around the world suffering from endless strife and violent clashes between different religious groups are said to be envious of our country, where so many different religions coexist without problems.
To preserve this intangible asset of our society, the government must waste no time to listen to the voices of the Buddhist community, rectifying what needs to be rectified and resolving any misunderstandings. Buddhists, too, should consider what the Korean public is worried about at this moment.
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Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
Yes... I remembered that too. Those were dark times. I think there was even an evangelical program in the radios.. I especially recall a particular piece of evangelical material, a car sticker (with English and Chinese versions) depicting someone proudly proclaiming that "I've Found it!"You seem to grow up in the same era as me... Wonder if you have come across that as well?
We in Singapore are more fortunate than the Koreans, for the highest echelons of PAP (the Lee's and GCT) are staunchly secular, even though at one time Christians made up about 70% of the ruling PAP...
No such luck with South Korea, their very top man seemed inclined to turn Korea into a Christian state.
I think, that's because our Constitution separates Religion & State, and the government's call to show respect between different religions is something worth.
The evangelical programmes on radio were done since Colonial times, ironically, it was when Buddhists wanted to have a similar programme that it was stopped altogether. And, from an insider's mouth, don't know if you all remember "Religious Knowledge" that was outdone more than a decade ago? It's said that the Christians wanted to use it to spread Christianity through Bible Studies but the more/most popular subject was "Buddhist Studies" (which could be used as an 'O'-level subject grade!), which added to the number of Buddhists increasing during those few years, so the programme was scrapped too! Unfortunately, with "BS" stopped, the young became less informed on Buddhism (again!) Heard that Manjusri still holds it though, but it cannot be used as an 'O'-level subject anymore.
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Originally posted by sanath:
I think, that's because our Constitution separates Religion & State, and the government's call to show respect between different religions is something worth.
The evangelical programmes on radio were done since Colonial times, ironically, it was when Buddhists wanted to have a similar programme that it was stopped altogether. And, from an insider's mouth, don't know if you all remember "Religious Knowledge" that was outdone more than a decade ago? It's said that the Christians wanted to use it to spread Christianity through Bible Studies but the more/most popular subject was "Buddhist Studies" (which could be used as an 'O'-level subject grade!), which added to the number of Buddhists increasing during those few years, so the programme was scrapped too! Unfortunately, with "BS" stopped, the young became less informed on Buddhism (again!) Heard that Manjusri still holds it though, but it cannot be used as an 'O'-level subject anymore.
Yah, yah... the radio thing...I mean it was a dissapointment when the proprosal couldn't get through. And the reason was something about fairness? Like other religions must also have a radio programme or something...
When the Religious studies was brought up, I was very excited as I felt that finally Buddhism can be properly taught to the masses so that the many misconceptions of our religion could be cleared. I was looking forward to take the subject of BS but by the time it was implemented, I was in Pre-U liao. Then after a while, heard that it was scrapped! I didn't know why then. After seeing what you've said were the possible reason, everything finally make some sense to me.
Well, I guess that was a mini 法难。
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Originally posted by Beyond Religion:
Yes... I remembered that too. Those were dark times. I think there was even an evangelical program in the radios.. I especially recall a particular piece of evangelical material, a car sticker (with English and Chinese versions) depicting someone proudly proclaiming that "I've Found it!"You seem to grow up in the same era as me... Wonder if you have come across that as well?
We in Singapore are more fortunate than the Koreans, for the highest echelons of PAP (the Lee's and GCT) are staunchly secular, even though at one time Christians made up about 70% of the ruling PAP...
No such luck with South Korea, their very top man seemed inclined to turn Korea into a Christian state.
I belong to the X generation, or was it the McDonald kids? (Although I prefer A&W )
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Wow din noe... din even noe Chiang Kai Shek was Christian.
p.s. my Master fled with Chiang Kai Shek in the same boat to Taiwan, and was his secretary, if I remember correctly.
i seriously doubt that, actual the name for 蒋介石,介石 is a word from i ching, means ä¸æ£, many of his policy coincide his tradition culture fan character. But for me, i hate him because, when he left china, he hog all the gold reserve in central bank, and he is too selfish, keen only with domestic warfare with CCP, when Japanese invade North east of china, he said he should not face them, settle the domestic war first. He as a man is adorable, but not in this position. Because Zhang xueliang have detain him, for good of warfare with japanese, he hate and revenge to zhang the rest of his life, fortunately zhang live longer than Chiang, so he could final got free. -
Originally posted by cycle:
Yah, yah... the radio thing...I mean it was a dissapointment when the proprosal couldn't get through. And the reason was something about fairness? Like other religions must also have a radio programme or something...
When the Religious studies was brought up, I was very excited as I felt that finally Buddhism can be properly taught to the masses so that the many misconceptions of our religion could be cleared. I was looking forward to take the subject of BS but by the time it was implemented, I was in Pre-U liao. Then after a while, heard that it was scrapped! I didn't know why then. After seeing what you've said were the possible reason, everything finally make some sense to me.
Well, I guess that was a mini 法难。
Very simple reason why it was scrapped: We would have too many people who are too spiritual and can't understand basic science. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Very simple reason why it was scrapped: We would have too many people who are too spiritual and can't understand basic science.
that's not the answer, science and technology are tools, they are made intend to make us happier, but i see now the situation become worse, religion teach us the ultimate way to lead happy, too much science and technology make me nervous, you didn't see that some of the scientist are psycho, i really worried that they will finally come with some anti god weapon, destroy all the living things, i remeber my days back in NTU, some professor yes are well trained, but as well as the stupidity. A lot of research of science are driven by desire, try to make their name or prove their excellency, i don't see what's good could come out by this false start. -
the year 2010 will see great changes in Korea Spiritual World
A Buddhist President will lead Korea ,and all Lee Myong Bak have to do is to destroy one temple and thats it ....
the end of Korean Christianity Superiority over the Peninsula
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Hope all discriminations end and the lesson learnt from this episode.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/372044/1/.html
South Korean Buddhists hold mass rally against alleged bias
Posted: 27 August 2008 1659 hrs Photos 1 of 1
South Korean Buddhist monks staged a hunger strike in a tent at the gate of the Jogye-sa Temple in Seoul on August 12.SEOUL - Tens of thousands of South Korean Buddhists rallied Wednesday in central Seoul to protest alleged pro-Christian bias by the government of President Lee Myung-Bak.
A crowd estimated by police at 55,000, including thousands of grey-robed monks, packed City Hall Plaza for the rare protest which began with the beating of a giant drum.
Organisers said Buddhist temples across the country rang bronze bells simultaneously.
"Buddhists united to stop religious bias," read one banner.
A police search involving Jigwan, head monk of the country's main Jogye Buddhist order, was the trigger for the mass rally.
"This is only the beginning of our struggle," said Jinhwa, a monk acting as spokesman for the organisers.
"This is the first time all 27 (Buddhist) orders have held a rally," he said, reiterating demands for an apology from Lee, the resignation of police chief Eo Cheong-Soo and legislation formally banning religious discrimination.
Buddhists have been uneasy over what they see as Christian bias since Lee, a Presbyterian church elder, came to power in February. They were unhappy when he included members of his church network in his first Cabinet.
An online map published by two ministries, showing Seoul's churches but not major Buddhist temples, also sparked anger.
In early July, seven activists wanted by police following protests against US beef imports took refuge in Seoul's Jogyesa temple.
Tensions grew late last month when police stopped a car carrying Jigwan outside the temple and searched the boot.
Police chief Eo apologised and disciplined two senior officers. But Buddhists accused police of treating the head monk like a criminal and called for Eo's resignation.
The government has tried to placate the Buddhists, with Culture Minister Yu In-Chon expressing regret Tuesday at the dispute.
Yu said regulations would be introduced to ban religious discrimination by government officials. Lee has urged his officials not to make controversial remarks on matters of faith.
But Buddhists were unappeased. Spokesman Jinhwa said that if their demands are not met, they would hold more protests across the country.
Official data shows South Korea has about 10 million Buddhists and 13.7 million Christians.
"This government is trying to evangelise the whole country and turn it into a Protestant state," said protester Suk Jin-Heung, carrying a banner demanding the resignation of the police chief.
He said many Protestant leaders were under the illusion that the country became a Protestant state when Lee was elected.
"But Lee must know he is not president only for Protestants but for Buddhists and Catholics too, and unbelievers as well," Suk told AFP.
- AFP/irThis new president wouldnt be so lucky and successful if he were to govern countries in the middle east. He would be courting death if he governed there trying to make a revolution in religions
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i thought korea has the largest church in the world?
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Hi all, I read your posts with interest.
Korean is a hotbed for fundamental Christianity, unfortunately. Do you know of the Christian cult group called "the Moonies"? I believe this group is banned in Singapore and it refers to the Unification Church founded by Korean Rev Sun Myung Moon. It grew to have much influence and Rev Moon even said that the Jewish halocaust during WWII was fair justice visited on the Jews for rejecting Jesus. This is such cruel and wrong thinking!
I am a Christian and I feel sad that Jesus' message of love and compassionate has often been corrupted by fundamentalists who make use of religion for selfish political ends.
But I must congratulate the Buddhist movement in Singapore in sharing the Dharma actively eg Kong Meng San Park Kor See has many free publications in good, clear English. I feel that the Buddhist movement has gained many headways in sharing the spiritual path with others. I am one of those who have gained from reading Buddhist books in English. It helped me to be a clearer-visioned Christian.
Some of you have expressed alarm and even fear that Buddhism is loosing out to Christianity and feel that you must do something. When we feel that our turf is being trampled on, we tend to react in fear and anger - this is against the spirit of Buddhism. What I admire about Buddhism is that you share the dharma not to "extend the kingdom" of Buddha but you share out of love and compassion - to help someone end his suffering.
Continue to speak against fundamentalism and extremism of all forms and not be silent. But hold on to the spirit of love and compassion taught by Buddha and Jesus, even while you see the tide of fundament Christianity sweeping across Korea. Try to see that these fundamental Christians are suffering too due to wrong thinking and ignorance. Even Jesus has said compassionately of those who persecuted him and put him on the cross:"Father, they know not what they do."
Let us use this forum for strengthening each other in our spiritual paths, whether Buddhists or Christians, in tolerance, acceptance and love.
Om shanti (peace) to all.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
that's not the answer, science and technology are tools, they are made intend to make us happier, but i see now the situation become worse, religion teach us the ultimate way to lead happy, too much science and technology make me nervous, you didn't see that some of the scientist are psycho, i really worried that they will finally come with some anti god weapon, destroy all the living things, i remeber my days back in NTU, some professor yes are well trained, but as well as the stupidity. A lot of research of science are driven by desire, try to make their name or prove their excellency, i don't see what's good could come out by this false start.Oh you studied in Singapore before? didn't know.. interesting
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Very simple reason why it was scrapped: We would have too many people who are too spiritual and can't understand basic science.
Well，if the policy makers that time think the same narrow way as you do, then yes, unfortunately this could be the reason. That's why it was a mini 法难。There are also many non-spiritual people, or atheists, who can't understand basic science.