Opt out from organ transplant after death

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:02

  Pls take this seriously especially for pureland buddhists:

  INFO: http://www.geraldtan.com/medaffairs/hota.html

   

  FORM: http://www.moh.gov.sg/mohcorp/uploadedFiles/Forms/HOTA_form/Pink_form.pdf

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:05

     Enacted in 1987, the law allows for the mandatory removal of kidneys if a person dies in an accident – unless the person has specifically opted out. The scheme covers all Singaporeans and Permanent Residents who are not Muslim. The Act was revised in 2004 to include the harvesting of livers, hearts and corneas and expanded to cover non-accidental deaths. Between then and last month, some 6,000 had opted out of Hota.

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:19

  � 器 官？
  问：我先生问：[佛教是�主张死��赠器官？]我答：[我佛大慈大悲，昔日歌利王割截�辱仙人的身体，他也�曾怒他。]请问�知对�？
  答：答问�看问的人的心�与用�，你的答�是�能够帮助他醒悟过�，关键在此。我�知�你们当时的情形，所以我也�知�是对�，你自己好好的��.体会，你就会明白。
  这 个问题，我们��清楚�赠器官，��没问题，我们凡夫有问题。一般人断气大概八�时之�，阿赖耶识�会离开，这时你割截他的器官没有问题，他已��知�痛 苦了。八�时之内，阿赖耶识没有离开，你割截他的器官，他会痛苦，若是�悔而生一念嗔�心，他就堕三途，这是�知�的。凡夫之人有这个能力���？如其� 能，还是���心，等到往生��世界，�生倒驾慈航��器官也�迟。因为你从��世界回�，你是��身，你有能力��辱仙人一样，被别人割截身体一点怨� 心都没有。你没有这个能力，希望你��冒险，�则到最�自己�悔，��了而堕三途，这个�就�大了。
  问：�献器官是一�善行，但佛教主张在八�时内�宜移动亡人，请问是�就�能�献器官？这与一些都��是�有所抵触？应如何��如法？
  答：佛法讲�是彻底的�，问题是你肯�肯�，你�是肯�，�献器官当然没有问题；怕是你�的时候��悔，问题就严�了，所以临终�能�认真考虑。
  � 上说，人断气之�八�时，神识（一般说�魂）还没有离开。���魂还没有离开身体，割截身体就会有痛苦。那个时候如果他很清楚[我�献器官很欢喜]，就没 有问题；如果割截器官的时候，觉得�常痛苦，因痛苦产生嗔�，麻烦就大了，一念欢喜心，往上生天；一念嗔�心，就堕地狱。纵然没有那幺�的罪业，嗔�心堕 畜生�，都是�毒蛇.猛兽这一类的。所以，我们�慎�的考虑这桩事情，自己是�是有定力.有功夫，在�赠身体器官的时候，能够��割截的痛苦。
  �言之，佛法教你�，是在日常生活当中能够�身心世界，�己为人，为社会.为众生�务，�为自己，这个�比�献器官还���。�献器官是帮助一个人，我们为社会大众工作是帮助许多人。所以，[�]应当在平时认真努力去�，�计较在临终这个时候。
  我们一定�明了，如果是真正念佛往生了，没有问题；因为往生的人一断气，神识就到��世界去了，你割截他的身体，他完全是没有知觉的。怕的是他没有往生，这就麻烦了。
  佛家讲有三�人一断气神识就离开，没有中阴。第一是往生；第二是生天，�报很大，没有中阴；第三是造��的罪业，死了之�立刻堕无间地狱，没有中阴，没有间隔，这里一断气立刻就到地狱去。除这三�人之外，都有中阴，这是我们�能�考虑到的。
  祖师大德们都是为了大多数众生�想，因为临终这一�关系你�生的�途，比什幺都���如果你�生能够得人天大�报，你�为一切众生�好事情，帮助一切众生，比你�身体器官帮一.两个人，功德�晓得�大多少，所以��仔细算算。（Master CK）

   

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:23

  第三：生�未有大错，死���出器官，�堕入三途，这是�有失公平？

  慧律法师答：这样的问题是对佛法�了解所致。昨日，我已�说过，�如你有定力，人家割你的器官时，你�觉得痛，就�以�出�。人的�心都很好，但都�知�自己的力�到底有多大，都�会了解临命终是多痛苦。

  所以，在世时就说临命终时，��出眼角膜，当然有这�愿力是很好的，问题是我们有没有这�功夫？被割时�感到痛，已�说�出�了。但是，我们佛教还 未到的事就已了解，了解割眼角膜是痛苦的，�心�或肾�，�如没有相当的定力，根本是��能的事。现在是能力的问题，�是慈悲的问题。�如你�的慈悲心� 以支�到底，就�会因救人而堕�；也就是说，你�起贪嗔痴的心，�起�悔的心就�以�器官，没有关系。

• Gackt247

  22 Jul 08, 15:33

  errr.. go translation?

• yamizi

  22 Jul 08, 15:35

  I opt out already lor.

  They would reply you with a yellow card to say that you have opt out. And that we were told that if we ever need any organs we will be at the bottom of the list.

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:50

  Basically, views on donating organs within 8 hours upon death differ within the Mahayana Buddhists. One camp (mainly the pureland buddhists like Master CK, Master Hui Lv as quoted above) are against it. Another camp (mainly from Humanistic Buddhism i.e Master Yin Shun, Master Cheng Yen) encourages it as they argued that the eighth consciousness (alaya) will not feel any pain after death and donating organ is the boddisattva's way.

   

• JitKiat

  22 Jul 08, 15:59

  The pureland buddhists' arguments are:

  1. The eighth consciousness may take up to 8-16 hours to detach itself from the dead body

  2. Touching the dead body in anyway will cause pain to the dead

  3. Unless the dead has samadhi or high level of tolerance to pain, pain may cause hatred/anger, this may lead the dead to Hungry Ghost or Hell

   

   

• Display Name

  22 Jul 08, 17:31

  I know this person that his friend has very high level of samadhi.
  Got this time when he in deep samadhi, my friend tap on his shoulder. After sometime he finally open his eye but scolded my friend angrily saying "do you know how painful I feel justnow when you tap on my shoulder". So sometimes, even high samadhi can't ensure the person is free from physical pain.
  
  Sidetrack a bit, there was this saying that when a person is about to die, we shouldn't "ge2 kiang3" and bring a person that he dislike to say sorry in order to patch back the relationship. Though the intention is good, but if the dead person grow hatred after seeing this person, it will affect his next life as well.

  I agree that if the dead person doesn't have or have very short bardo stage, then removing the organ won't cause any pain on him. But that is for people who practice the dharma when still alive. Daily practice is still far more important than any last minute effort.

• the Bear

  22 Jul 08, 17:34

  sorry, i'm not a buddhist or anything, but the pain is going to stop you from helping others live?

• cuddles

  22 Jul 08, 17:40

  I thought there's a saying "Sheng bu dai lai, si bu dai qu" ? I can't type chinese here in office.. so pai sei ah..

  like what Bear says, if your organs helped another to live, won't it be a great deed? even if after life feels pain, but at least you helped someone who might possibly be a breadwinner, or gave someone a chance to see their sons/daughters get married?

• sanath

  22 Jul 08, 22:21

  生�帶來死�帶去

  I have to disagree with Ven Chin Kung and Ven Hui Lu. Unfortunately, it shows a lack of entrusting in the Buddha's Vow to save all sentient beings. I mean, if our karmic acts are such that we do not have the conductive environment to die and have our body left for 8 hours, does it mean that we will not attain birth in the Pure Land? I do not think that Amitabha Buddha is so uncompassionate, since it is stated in His Vows that he will save sentient beings who entrust in His Vows and recite His Name. If our donating of organs can save others' lives, than i think, Buddha would even be more rejoiceful of it.

   

• OH-FF

  22 Jul 08, 22:53

  I believe our cells can live on in others. our and mind no longer function we should be reduced to real fertilisers.

• bohiruci

  22 Jul 08, 23:04

  its okie .. it individual choice

   

  I have chosen not to opt out but stay in organ donating

   

  going hell is an adventure for me . i dun mind going there :)

   

   

• TWE

  24 Jul 08, 00:06

     Well i strongly believe that pple who have done alot of merits in this life will go to heaven and those who are bad will go to hell . No matter what position or status that person have . From what i notice different pple will translate and think differently not to mention different understanding of even the exact same book of sutras . Some pple after reading will say things different other pple who have read the same sutras . Thus maybe the different teachings in between sects . Regarding the person who regret donating his organ when he experience pain while pple are harvesting it will go to hell direct ... . Lets put it this way , are they trying to say for example : if a person whom has done alot of evil killing raping smuggling cocaine etc dies and the doctor uses his organ to save another person even though that person did not bother to opt out of it . Or put it this way , he realise his folly and decides to make atonements and does not regrets his decision even though he is in great pain in the process of harvesting . Are you saying that this person will go to heaven ? And some one whom has been a very devout buddhist whom has done alot of merits regrets his decision or gets angry due to the pain of harvesting his organ will go direct to hell ? If thats the way , pple will really suspect buddhism and may even accuse it as " blind " or even stupid .

    I personally did not opt out of it , as i believe if i am able to save another person after i die then why not ? Although i have never thought of the pain during the harvesting nor bother abt the hassles of opting out . Seriously if buddhism were to be like what they say feel pain , regret then go to hell , then i bet at least abt 50% of current buddhist will convert to other religions . In buddhism it is said that there is no self and the human body is made up n consist of millions of cells each doing their own " job " . Then what is the problem of harvesting organs from the body ?

      Budhha encourage pple to do good save lives etc , yet here this venereble is trying to discourage pple to donate organ to other pple just because they may feel pain n regret . I think he say this out of his own fear and believe instead of from any buddhism text . Its easy to add in your own views to preach to pple who looks highly on you . But it will be hard to correct them later as even if you decide to retract your statement , some of the pple in the initial assembly may not be there and still hold on to the wrong views . By then you may have caused more harm then good .

• sinweiy

  24 Jul 08, 09:28

  just to clarify the two idea between chinese and japanese PL.  

  yes, i agree that 生ä¸�帶來死ä¸�帶去 and that it shows a lack of entrusting in the Amitabha's Vow, yet that Lack of entrustment can Sometimes serve as a problem for Some people. so for such people, you may need some alternative. so Amitabha is still very compassionate to give some people that alternative.

  sometimes, personal karma can be overwhelming than one's entrustment. but i know that should not be the case. well, what to say some people are that lack of confidence. if by opting out, it do help to boost you confidence and entrustment of Amitabha's Vow, then why not?.

  /\

• Display Name

  24 Jul 08, 09:50

  Hi TWE
  
  I agree that people who did good can go to heaven, but not all will go heaven. It also depends on their vow and intention.
  
  The pain of the person when dying is beyond one's endurance. I heard cases when doctors used electric shock or other method to save a near death patient. After the patient die, the doctor had a nightmare when the dead person came to struggle the doctor because during the treatment the patient has suffered very severe pain.
  Though a person might do some good thing in the past, but if he grow hatred when he die, this will create bad karma. On top of that, he won't be in the same frequency to upper rebirth, so his bad karma will ripe first.

  Anyway, this is for those people who don't do much good nor bad karma when they alive like everyday eat and sleep, never develop compassion, never harm people, then their next rebirth will be determined by their mind/attitude during dying process, whichever is stronger.
  Remeber that karma is not created just through body and speech only, but also through mind.
  In sutra, it state that one can clear off bad karma by doing repention, regretting of the bad deeds that we do in the past. Likewise, if one regret the "good deeds" that he do, it will have negative impact to himself.
  So, in a way, both side are correct, their understanding on this matter is also according to the dharma.

• cuddles

  24 Jul 08, 10:40

  apparently, it all boils down to,

  comfortable, donate.

  not comfortable, opt out.

• JitKiat

  24 Jul 08, 12:52

  Another main problem is the process of harvesting organ will prevent process of 助念.

  
  

  Most Buddhists are typically not educated about death when they are alive to help them to make decision on organ harvesting. The best/most popular work so far is "The Tibetan Book of Dead" (available in English/Chinese).

  
  

  The following is a short extract from Zen Master �怀瑾 on the death process:
  

  
  

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  现在我们先讲一个人，正的死亡。人è¦�死以å‰�，先是风大死亡，先没有气了，呼å�¸ä¸�对了。你们大家到医院看过病人就知é�“，一个人è¦�死的时候，这 个呼å�¸åœ¨è¿™é‡Œå“¦ï¼›å©´å„¿çš„呼å�¸å¤šå�Šã€�你看一个婴儿躺在床上呼å�¸ï¼Œé¼»å­�ã€�胸å�£æ¯”较动得轻微了，这个å°�è…¹ã€�è‚šå­�整个地动，呼å�¸æ·±é•¿ã€‚年纪大一点慢慢上æ�¥ï¼Œåˆ°äº†è€� 年了，呼å�¸éƒ½åˆ°è¿™é‡Œï¼ˆèƒ¸éƒ¨ä»¥ä¸Šï¼‰äº†ï¼Œæ­»äº¡çš„时候就到这里（喉部）。快è¦�断气了，医生没有办法，为了ä¿�æŒ�脑细胞慢一点死亡，就给他上氧气帮忙他，使脑神ç»�细 胞ä¸�è¦�死亡ã€�多留一下。所以死亡，第一个是风大先散掉，æ�¢å�¥è¯�，死亡是先到气没有了。但是在这个阶段呢，这个死的人，å�‡ä½¿æ­£å¸¸çš„，我们现在完全照正常讲 哦。他的感å�—哇，所谓å�‘生身体上肉体上，å�‘烧啊ã€�难过啊ã€�或者觉得冷啊，很ä¸�舒æœ�，总ä¸�对头，情况很ä¸�好，自己也迷迷糊糊，å�‘烧。那么在这个阶段风大的死 亡，那么在è¦�死的人幻象的感觉呢，或者觉得“哎呀，给我脚上盖一盖呀，风好大呀ï¼�风好大呀ï¼�”实际上没有风，就是这ç§�感觉，实际是内在的风è¦�散了ã€�这个气 è¦�散了。所以这个时候，风大死亡这个阶段还å�¯ä»¥æ•‘è�¯çš„，ä¸�管中医西医ã€�乃至明白的医生啊，地下医生ã€�天上医生，有办法这个时候还å�¯ä»¥åŒ»å¾—回æ�¥ã€‚所以åƒ�西医 嘛，é� æ°§æ°”æ�¥æŠŠä»–命å�Šä½�；氧气是帮忙å�Šä½�这个命，还想办法想把他医好。ä¸�过啊，大部分现在的情况，一上了氧气已ç»�想ä¸�出别的办法了，å�ªå¥½ç­‰æ—¶é—´äº†ã€‚如果没 有氧气的帮助，很快就死了。那么四大的死亡，这个时候，或者那个将死的人感觉到，“啊，都是……”进入弥留状æ€�，迷迷糊糊，“啊，”觉得é�žå¸¸å�¯æ€•ï¼�一切境 况都ä¸�对了，眼ç�›çœ‹åˆ°ã€�眼识所看到的啊，黑暗ã€�迷迷糊糊了。

  è·Ÿç�€æ�¥çš„是什么呢？水大分散，到了这一步呀，就很难救了，一定会死了。水大分散是什么？这个呼å�¸åˆ°äº†é‚£é‡Œï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªå‘¼å�¸“呃ã€�呃……”那个死人 å¿«è¦�死的时候“呃ã€�呃……”。这个时候啊，还有，你注æ„�，下é�¢çš„肛门也è¦�打开了，放å±�了ã€�大便æµ�出æ�¥äº†ã€‚所以有一个医生自己晓得，自己是医生，年纪大了， 儿女也是医生，帮ç�€éƒ½å›´ç�€åŒ»ï¼Œä»–自己指挥的，用什么è�¯ç»™æˆ‘打，用什么针给我打，最å�Žä»–说ä¸�è¦�打了ã€�ä¸�è¦�打了，我肛门已ç»�开了，就没有希望了。å±�股肛门打开 大便æµ�出æ�¥äº†ã€‚为什么？这个下é�¢æ°”脱掉了ã€�下气下é™�了，所以è¦�死的时候下é�¢å¤§ä¾¿ã€�尿都æ�¥äº†ï¼›ä¸Šé�¢“呃ã€�呃ã€�呃……”好了ï¼�好åƒ�我死过一样，很有ç»�验的样å­� （众笑）。当然我们大家过去死过了忘记了，都有这个ç»�验（è€�师示：呃ã€�呃……）没有咽下æ�¥ï¼Œæˆ‘们现在活ç�€çš„人还咽下æ�¥ï¼Œç­‰åˆ°ï¼ˆè€�师示：呃ã€�呃……）最å�Žæ²¡ 有了ï¼�上é�¢è¿™ä¸ªæ°”一出完，下é�¢è‚›é—¨ä¸€æ‰“开，走了。上下气一脱开就没有了。这个时候水大分散，身上æµ�出汗了，下é�¢å¤§å°�便就是水大了，æµ�掉了。那么身上出的 汗，这个时候你摸到他那个身上的汗[断录]。跟ç�€è¿™ä¸ªæ„�识的业力，å�‡è®¾è¿™ä¸ªäººä¸šé‡�的，算ä¸�定看到你们大家都å�˜æˆ�魔鬼相了，“哎呦，这魔鬼è¦�æ�¥æŠ“我了ï¼�”或 者自己å�šè¿‡å��事的，“哎呦，这些冤家都è¦�æ�¥æŠ“我，你看ã€�你看ã€�你看ï¼�æŸ�人è¦�æ�¥æŠ“我了，哎呀，ä¸�得了了ï¼�ä¸�得了了ï¼�”哎，就有这个é�“ç�†äº†ã€‚这个时候天堂地 狱，你æ„�识里头都形æˆ�了。那么在这个时候瞳孔放大了，（人）站在å‰�é�¢çœ‹åˆ°ï¼ˆæ„Ÿè§‰ï¼‰å¾ˆè¿œã€‚耳朵呢，你当é�¢è·Ÿä»–讲的声音，所以你们大家念佛è¦�助念，这个时候 “阿弥陀佛ã€�阿弥陀佛”哪怕你念得那么大ã€�放录音机放得“阿弥陀佛ã€�阿弥陀佛”，你嗓门都å�«ç ´äº†ï¼Œåœ¨ä»–å�¬å¾—是（觉得）很远很远的，å�¶ç„¶å�¬åˆ°“阿弥陀佛”， 引起他注æ„�，已ç»�ä¸�得了了，很好了。æ��怕那个æ„�识散了，还ä¸�能……那个音ä¹�ä¸�凑巧，你“阿弥陀佛”，你“陀佛阿弥”他也没有办法了，他等于一个业力把它隔 ä½�了，这股力é‡�，既ä¸�是上å¸�也ä¸�是è�©è�¨ï¼Œéƒ½æ˜¯è‡ªèº«å”¯è¯†æ‰€å�˜çš„业力，把他隔ä½�了。

  如果这一生的修æŒ�心清净呢，平常ç†�修（这个“ç†�”字）惯了的，一å�¬åˆ°å¼•ç£¬“å�®……”这个声音，“啊，阿弥陀佛ï¼�”这个时候念ã€�念头里，所以 å�«ä½ ä»¬å¹³å¸¸å¿µä½›ï¼Œä¸�是嘴里念啊，这个时候没有办法在嘴里念“阿弥陀佛”，你们æ�žé”™äº†ï¼�一般人跟那个死人讲，说：“你念啊ï¼�念阿弥陀佛啊ï¼�”我站在æ—�边： “哎呀，你真是该死ï¼�”那个死人å�«äººå®¶ï¼š“你念啊ï¼�念阿弥陀佛呀ï¼�”他会念，他就ä¸�死了（众笑）ï¼�有一次我骂一个朋å�‹çš„å„¿å­�，我说：“你滚开ï¼�他会念他就 ä¸�死了ï¼�”真是ä¸�会念了，这个时候å�«å¿µä½›æ˜¯å¿ƒé‡Œæ„�念晓得就对了嘛。所以“æŸ�人啊，你注æ„�念佛啊ï¼�”念ã€�心念念到这个佛，ä¸�是（嘴里念，）嘴里念ä¸�出æ�¥“阿 弥陀佛”四个字的呀ï¼�是心里有一个佛的å�°è±¡ï¼Œå¯¹äº†ï¼�他就有办法了，就ä¸�会堕è�½äº†ã€‚啊，碰到这些莫明其妙的佛婆婆佛妈妈佛公公们：“你念啊ï¼�阿弥陀佛啊ï¼�ä½  å¿«è¦�念啊ï¼�”å�µæ­»äººï¼�这就åƒ�街上é€�丧的一样，å�ˆå�¹ã€�å�ˆé—¹ã€�å�ˆæ‰“，我å�«å®ƒå�ˆåœ¨å�µæ­»äººäº†ã€‚死人死在棺æ��蛮好，他å�ˆåœ¨å�Žé�¢å�ˆå�¹ã€�å�ˆæ‰“ã€�å�ˆæ•²é”£ï¼Œä¸�是å�µæ­»äººå�—？这 个时候就ä¸�è¦�去å�µæ­»äººï¼Œé‚£ä»–å�¬çš„声音很远。

  那么这个时候呢，跟ç�€å¾ˆå¿«äº†ï¼Œæˆ‘们讲è¯�很慢，这是很正常的死亡，这是讲的ã€�报告的都是é�žå¸¸æ­£å¸¸çš„死。那么è¦�死的时候，就看到，自己“哦ï¼�ä¸� 得了ï¼�”好åƒ�“下大雨呦ï¼�”这是看业力了，业力é‡�的人觉得“å“Žå“Ÿï¼�ä¸�得了，我掉到海边去了ï¼�掉到海里了ã€�掉到水里了。”“噢ï¼�下大雨呦ï¼�”狂风暴雨都æ�¥ 了，这个风是什么？这个里头（自己身体里）散掉的风——狂风。暴雨是什么？身上的水大分散。这是看你平常å�šäººã€�ä¿®æŒ�ã€�å–„æ�¶çš„业力。å�‡ä½¿è¿™ä¸ªäººæ˜¯å–„人死亡， 心地好的人，这个时候也晓得汗æµ�了，觉得：“哎呀，怎么好åƒ�湿湿的啊。”有这么一个感觉，水分就觉得轻，业力就觉得轻。当然你看大家å�šæ¢¦ï¼Œæˆ‘们大家都å�šè¿‡ 梦的啊，我们在座没有一个没有å�šè¿‡æ¢¦å˜›ã€‚有没有人梦中ç»�常梦到是天晴的？很少å�§ï¼Ÿæ¢¦ä¸­é‚£ä¸ªå¢ƒç•Œéƒ½æ˜¯è¿·è¿·ç³Šç³Šåœ°ï¼Œæ²¡æœ‰çœ‹åˆ°è¿‡å¤§å¤ªé˜³ç…§çš„晴天，懂了å�§ï¼Ÿå�‡è®¾æœ‰ ä¿®æŒ�的人，临死的时候正是大太阳的晴天ã€�无念ã€�很清é�™ï¼Œè€Œä¸”光明é��现。所以å�«ä½ ä»¬çŽ°åœ¨ä¿®æŒ�就是这个啊ï¼�现在没有修æŒ�，你们大家在打å��ã€�ä¿®é�“，说功夫好，å�� èµ·æ�¥è¿˜ä¸�是眼å‰�一片漆黑？å�¶ç„¶äº®ä¸€ä¸‹ï¼Œé‚£ä¸ªäº®åƒ�光影门头晃一下有什么用啊？啊，你生死还有把æ�¡å•Šï¼Ÿä¸€ç‚¹æŠŠæ�¡éƒ½æ²¡æœ‰çš„ï¼�少在那里自己å�¹ç‰›äº†ã€‚ä¸�è¦�骗自己了。 这个时候所以呀普通人就觉得掉到海洋里了，害怕得很ï¼�而且都是黑暗ã€�狂风暴雨，è¦�讲è¯�å·²ç»�没办法了，想告诉å‰�é�¢çš„亲人，没有办法了。这个时候就很快è¦�死亡 了。很快ã€�很快ã€�一刹那。åƒ�我们讲è¯�å�Šå¤©äº†ï¼Œæ­»å¾—时候没有那么慢。然å�Žå·²ç»�å¿«è¦�死了。觉得ã€�æ„�识到了这个时候å�šä¸�了主了，第六æ„�识æ¸�æ¸�分散完了。所以你跟 他讲è¯�，他：“å•Šã€�å•Š……å•Š……è°�ã€�è°�啊？啊……”就这样的。你晓得这个æ„�识分散了。因为我学得很åƒ�啊，当然我好åƒ�死过的样å­�，哈ï¼�真的死过，大家都死 过，å�¯æ˜¯å¤§å®¶å¿˜è®°äº†ï¼›å¤§å®¶å�ˆæŠ•ç”Ÿè¿‡ï¼Œå�¯æ˜¯å¿˜è®°äº†ï¼›ä½ çœŸè®°å¾—，就是定力了。

  那么这个死亡到这个时候，跟ç�€æ˜¯ç�«å¤§åˆ†æ•£ï¼Œèº«ä½“冷å�´äº†ï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªæ°´åˆ†ä¸€å‡ºã€�汗一æµ�以å�Žï¼Œèº«ä½“就开始凉了，那个ä¸�是凉——冰了。冰到哪里，ç�«å¤§åˆ† 散了，地ã€�æ°´ã€�ç�«ã€�风。暖——冷å�´åˆ°ä»€ä¹ˆåœ°æ–¹ï¼Œå°±æ­»äº¡åˆ°ä»€ä¹ˆåœ°æ–¹ã€‚所以唯识心æ„�识这三个字：暖ã€�寿ã€�识，三样是连ç�€çš„。æ„�识心ã€�精神还在生命上ã€�在这个肉 体上，就有暖气。有暖，识就还在ã€�心识还在。所以他的寿命还存在。到ç�«å¤§åˆ†æ•£çš„时候，水大分散过了，ç�«å¤§åˆ†æ•£åˆ°ã€�冷å�´åˆ°å“ªé‡Œï¼Œæ­»äº¡åˆ°å“ªé‡Œã€‚那么这个时候， 医生就å�¯ä»¥æµ‹éªŒäº†ã€‚

  如果我们把人体（按）佛学分æˆ�å…­é�“，上三é�“：“天”ã€�天é�“，å�‡å¤©ï¼Œè¿™ä¸ªå¤©åˆ†ä¸‰å��三天，六å��多层ã€�å…­å��多ç§�，都是天é�“。“阿修罗é�“”，普通å�« “é­””，ä¸�是那么难看的魔，也是天的一ç§�，就是人里头的好人å��人，天里头的好天å��天，是阿修罗ã€�阿修罗é�“。人é�“，å†�投身å�˜äººã€‚这都还属于上三å“�ã€�上三é�“。 下三é�“呢？就差了，下三é�“的高级一点：“畜生”，å�˜çŒªå•Šã€�å�˜ç‰›å•Šã€�å�˜é©¬ã€�å�˜ç‹—。差一点：“饿鬼”，就是我们讲鬼啦，鬼就是这些东西。å†�差的：下“地狱”。

  那么我们怎么样分别呢？这个人体é�žå¸¸æ˜Žæ˜¾çš„。如果这个人死亡的时候，一身上é�¢å¼€å§‹å†·äº†ï¼Œæœ€å�Žè¶³åº•å¿ƒè¿˜æš–çš„——下地狱去ï¼�ä¸�过这ç§�人，你摸ä¸� 到的，è¯�是那么讲；凡是这一类人ä¸�得正死。啊，我们过去看得很多，现在在医院里的比较ä¸�å�Œäº†ã€‚过去有我们有很多大家ã€�了ä¸�起的人，地ä½�高ã€�学问好ã€�å��æ°” 大ã€�年龄å�ˆå¤§ï¼Œæ´»åˆ°å…«ä¹�å��å²�，è€�太爷一辈å­�怎么怎么好，最å�Žæ­»çš„时候，房间里ä¸�è¦�ç�¡ã€�床上ä¸�能ç�¡ï¼Œç¡¬è¦�躺在地上爬，最å�Žéƒ½è¦�爬到猪æ �ã€�ç‹—çª�里头去死。过去 很多哦ï¼�现在有医院，有护士管ç�†æ²¡æœ‰åŠžæ³•ã€‚但是在å�°åŒ—我也看到几个人，修é�“的，é�“德平常都是——唉呀，什么è€�师ã€�什么è€�师，高得ä¸�得了，é�“高得ä¸�得了，最 å�Žæ­»å•Šï¼Œè‡ªå·±ä¸�晓得莫明其妙跑到马路死在阴沟里。最å�Žäººå®¶æŠŠä»–弄去到医院救活了，身上也没有身份è¯�，æ�žä¸�清楚是è°�，最å�ŽæŠŠä»–救活了，活了在医院躺了三天， ä»–å�ˆå�·å�·è·‘出æ�¥ï¼Œå�ˆæ­»åœ¨é˜´æ²Ÿé‡Œã€‚你说什么é�“ç�†å‘¢ï¼Ÿå½“然我也ä¸�æ•¢ä¿�è¯�å°†æ�¥è¿žé˜´æ²Ÿè¿˜æ²¡æœ‰èµ„格死，那就更糟糕了ï¼�啊，对ä¸�对？那这个果报很难说，ä¸�è¦�笑人家，这 是讲é�“ç�†ç»™å¤§å®¶å�¬ã€‚ä¸�一定的，这是果报，业力使然。果报，ä¸�是上å¸�ã€�也ä¸�是阎王ã€�也ä¸�是城éš�ã€�也ä¸�是è�©è�¨ç»™ä½ ï¼Œéƒ½æ˜¯è‡ªå·±é€ çš„。平生的个性，构æˆ�了你的结 果，é�žå¸¸æ³¨æ„�ï¼�那么所以这一类的人ã€�下地狱的人，è€�实讲，你摸足心还是摸ä¸�到呢ï¼�

  如果说一身都冷å�´äº†ï¼Œæœ€å�Žè†�盖头一带这还暖和的，å�ªæœ‰è†�盖头这样一摸还有一点，ä¸�是很暖，比全身的冰ã€�冰起æ�¥è¿™ä¸€éƒ¨åˆ†æ¯”较暖——æ�¶é¬¼é�“。

  如果这一个（这一类å�¯ä»¥æœ‰æœºä¼šæ‘¸åˆ°äº†ï¼‰ï¼Œè¿™ä¸€èº«ä¸Šé�¢éƒ½æ­»å®Œã€�冰完了，肚è„�一带ã€�下部一带还温暖的——畜生é�“。ä¸�过畜生é�“死的人都很难看，样å­�å�˜å¾—很难看，都å�˜äº†å½¢ã€�怪模怪样的。

  如果说一身都冷了，心çª�å­�还暖和的——人é�“å†�æ�¥ï¼Œäººä¸­å†�æ�¥ï¼Œè¿˜ä¼šæŠ•èƒŽå�šäººã€‚这一类的人死得一定蛮清楚的，然å�Žçœ‹çœ‹å„¿å­�å•Šã€�女儿呀ã€�媳妇啊， 看到这个掉两滴眼泪呀，那个看看：“æ��怕我é� ä¸�ä½�啦，啊ã€�啊，你们好好å�šäººå�§……å•Š”，这一类的人，样å­�也ä¸�错。那么最å�Žæ­»äº†å�§ï¼Œå¥½åƒ�看起æ�¥å¾ˆå®‰è¯¦ã€‚你摸 摸他全身都冰了，这里（心çª�）还暖和，最å�Žå†·ï¼Œè¿˜è¦�ç»´æŒ�好几个钟头，两三个ã€�三四个钟头ä¸�一定，最å�Žå†·——人中å†�æ�¥ï¼Œäººé�“å†�æ�¥ã€‚

  如果有些人，一身都冷了，这里最å�Žè¿˜æš–和的——天é�“。头顶，所以往生希望ã€�最å�Žè¿™é‡Œè¿˜æš–，一定上å�‡çš„，没有问题ï¼�但是这一类人死亡的样å­�比 较好看了，或者还脸红红的呀，高血压一样，死得很安详啊ã€�笑眯眯的呀，有é�“的人æ‰�å�šå¾—到。普通人ä¸�大笑了，ä¸�过很安详了，ç�¡åŽ»äº†ä¸€æ ·ã€‚å�¯æœ‰ä¸¤ç§�哦，这样是 天é�“。如果上é�¢æ˜¯æœ€å�Žå†·å�´ï¼Œæ ·å­�有一点å�‘脾气的，很愤怒的样å­�——阿修罗é�“。所以这个一念呀，一念，譬如说大家有许多平常å�šäººï¼Œä¸ªæ€§å��ã€�脾气容易éƒ�é—·ã€�爱 闹情绪的，动ä¸�动心里就烦ã€�生气ã€�高兴，实际上就是人中的阿修罗了，我告诉你。脾气å�¤æ€ªï¼Œå·²ç»�是人中的阿修罗，ä¸�上正é�“了。你以为阿修罗一定是天é�“中有 啊？这å�¤æ€ªï¼Œé¬¼é¬¼æ€ªæ€ªï¼Œè¿™ä¸€ç±»çš„人已ç»�是人中阿修罗，é�¢å­”也ä¸�å�Œçš„，你一看就一望而知。但在知é�“çš„ä¸�说而已，这个东西ä¸�能说明的。所以这是阿修罗é�“，也是 上å�‡ã€‚ä¸�过是å�¤æ€ªï¼Œæœ‰æ°”æ�¨ã€‚

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  ...

• cuddles

  24 Jul 08, 13:04

  I just don't get it. wall of text just isn't popular. what's worse is a wall of chinese text.

  summary. not that I can't read and understand. just that it'll be good if u just link to that passage and extract the main sentences that people should take note?

• Display Name

  24 Jul 08, 14:23

  Originally posted by cuddles:

  I just don't get it. wall of text just isn't popular. what's worse is a wall of chinese text.

  summary. not that I can't read and understand. just that it'll be good if u just link to that passage and extract the main sentences that people should take note?

  To summarize it, death is a painful process especially for those who don't practice diligently. Don't touch or move around the dead person's body coz they will feel miserable. He also talk about organ transplant but I am more concerned on the prerequisites of it which is not mentioned.

• jacqn

  24 Jul 08, 19:58

  I also quite confused why donating organ is a good deed, but then it is advised against by some buddhist or even monks. however i learnt one thing here, that is not to force people to do what he does not like to. we cant force others to donate, cos if he not willing, he is the one to suffer in the end.

  my mom is a buddhist, yet she chose to opt out. I was puzzled initially by her decision. but realised after reading this thread,that i should not be unhappy. its is just like promoting buddhism to the people. if they dont like to listen, we should not push further( it depends on fate, and their level of wisdom. just like ppl preaching about christianity. i dont like, but polite to refuse, so i just block away part of the conversation. (side track a bit!)

• jayh272416

  24 Jul 08, 20:08

  Can you re-opt-in after you opt-out? Thx.

• knightlll

  24 Jul 08, 22:11

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  its okie .. it individual choice

   

  I have chosen not to opt out but stay in organ donating

   

  going hell is an adventure for me . i dun mind going there :)

   

   

  haha. Dun think it's fun there.  :)

• yamizi

  24 Jul 08, 23:06

  Originally posted by jayh272416:

  Can you re-opt-in after you opt-out? Thx.

  Can. You just need to go to MOH website. Got a form or something. Can opt-in if you had opt-out.