Why did Buddhism driven out of India in the 11th Century

• marcteng

  1 Nov 08, 21:39

  By the 11 Century, Buddhism was driven out from India, as prophesied by the Buddha. The reason was that India was conquered by the early Islamists.
• sanath

  1 Nov 08, 23:20

  That and the fact that Buddhism was slowly assimilated into present-day Hinduism, so when the Muslims conquered India, those who were Buddhists were either killed, persecuted or made to change their religion (either Hinduism or Islam).

  At a Buddhist Youth Conference in Sep'08, a Buddhist from India whom i had the chance to talk to, told me that because Buddha advocated against the caste system, when the Buddhists were assimilated or converted into Hinduism, the "Buddhists" were relegated to become the "Outcastes". Now alot of them are "re-converting" to Buddhism.

• cycle

  3 Nov 08, 17:49

  Originally posted by sanath:

  That and the fact that Buddhism was slowly assimilated into present-day Hinduism, so when the Muslims conquered India, those who were Buddhists were either killed, persecuted or made to change their religion (either Hinduism or Islam).

  At a Buddhist Youth Conference in Sep'08, a Buddhist from India whom i had the chance to talk to, told me that because Buddha advocated against the caste system, when the Buddhists were assimilated or converted into Hinduism, the "Buddhists" were relegated to become the "Outcastes". Now alot of them are "re-converting" to Buddhism.

  
  Wow that's good news !

  There are now also Africans in Africa that are Buddhist monks. The number is relatively small of cos but I'm allways very impressed whenever ppl go against all odds in a difficult environment (边地) to follow the Triple Gems.   

• JitKiat

  4 Nov 08, 08:47

  http://www.yinshun.org.tw/books/35/yinshun35-19.html

   

  師�身中蟲，自食師�肉

• cycle

  4 Nov 08, 12:35

  所以说， 生为佛弟å­�我们还是è¦�懂得分辩è°�是明师。这当然ä¸�是件简å�•çš„事，所以我们因该好好地修诫，定，慧。当然也ä¸�好一开始就对所有的三å®�èµ·ä¸�å¿…è¦�的疑心或轻视，那也是执著å�§ï¼Œå¯¼è‡´æˆ‘è§� å’Œ 我慢太深的è¯�， 还有å�¯èƒ½æ­£çš„ä¸�ä¿¡ å��而信邪的了。 å�°é¡ºå¯¼å¸ˆå°±è¯´è¿‡ï¼Œä½›å¼Ÿå­�è¦�对三å®�有信心，没有信，深法难入。

  我们大家共勉之。

• JitKiat

  4 Nov 08, 19:23

  I think the issue is more complicated than just 分辩�是明师. There are fundamental differences between teaching of different Masters from different Mahayana sects (Humanistic, Zen, Pureland, TianTai, Yogacara, Tibetan). In our life as young Buddhists, we need to learn how to maintain our belief in the path that we have chosen and learn from different Masters from different sects even though some of their teachings contradict with our belief. For example, we may practise pureland by following the teaching of Master Ou Yi, Master Yin Kuang but we can also learn selectively from Master Yin Shun who is an advocate of Humanistic Buddhism.

• cycle

  5 Nov 08, 14:31

  Originally posted by JitKiat:

  I think the issue is more complicated than just 分辩�是明师. There are fundamental differences between teaching of different Masters from different Mahayana sects (Humanistic, Zen, Pureland, TianTai, Yogacara, Tibetan). In our life as young Buddhists, we need to learn how to maintain our belief in the path that we have chosen and learn from different Masters from different sects even though some of their teachings contradict with our belief. For example, we may practise pureland by following the teaching of Master Ou Yi, Master Yin Kuang but we can also learn selectively from Master Yin Shun who is an advocate of Humanistic Buddhism.

  
  The fundamental is always to  ä¿® 戒定慧。 Then all paths will finaly leads to one path. Nothing contradicts nor not contradicts.

  So yes, what u said is absolutely true. And all the masters u mentioned are actually 明师. That's why its absolutely correct that we should learn from them no matter which sects they belong to. The problem for many lay ppl like us is how to realise one. A good eg that shows this is [ 善财童å­�五å��三å�‚ ]。

   Btw, Master Yin Shun is my 师公. But of cos my poor cultivation has nothing to do with 师公..! 

  Oh, and i'm not young.

• seotiblizzard

  5 Nov 08, 14:39

  Its, why WAS buddhism driven out ... not why did.

• JitKiat

  6 Nov 08, 10:37

  Quote from http://ir.lib.au.edu.tw/dspace/bitstream/987654321/44/1/0193035583.pdf

  「智者大師從教法與證法的綜å�ˆä¸­ï¼Œçªºï¨Šä½›å­¸é«”系，也就是教法的淺深，修證悟入的淺深歷程。……如以客觀研究的眼光，智者大師的教學，並不理想。如『中ï¥�ã€�明說『諸佛ä¾�二諦ã€�，他å�»ä¾�『中ï¥�ã€�而談三諦。……引用經ï¥�，或是截å�–一節ã€�一句；或是刪略幾字；而且引用å�½ç¶“，著實不少ï¼�然而，智者大師是無比的å�‰å¤§ï¼�正是中國佛學完滿的典型ï¼�這是上承å�°ï¨�é‡�修證的大乘經師的傳統──乙型。憑修證的經驗，貫通經ï¥�……。舉比喻說：客觀研究者，是工筆畫；費盡工夫，未必畫好，說不定『畫匠ã€�而已。而乙型的佛學，é‡�修證而教觀çµ�å�ˆçš„佛學，是寫æ„�的，有時是漫畫å¼�的。你說不å°�嗎？å�»æ˜¯è¶Šçœ‹è¶Šåƒ�，神氣活ç�¾ï¼�被稱為『畫家ã€�。客觀研究者，是科學化的，有æ¢�有理，使人了解。而乙型的佛學，是è—�術化的，使人啟發，使人感動，使人忘我。

  �順法師將學�分為三大�型：「知識的學���「知識與經驗相��的學��與「經驗的學��。「乙型��是指第二種「知識與經驗相��的學��。

  I think Master Yin Shun is great in the sense that he is brave enough to give both positive and negative comments to Chinese Mahayana sects like TianTai (智者大師 belongs to TianTai) and Pureland, well knowing that this will invite flame and misunderstanding. But he did state that his comment was purely from 客觀研究者 perspective. Of course, Master Yin Shun is not just a 客觀研究者. He is most admired due to his compassion as an advocate of Humanistic Buddhism - his guidance to his disciple - TzuChi foundation's Master Cheng Yen was - 为佛教， 为众生。

• cycle

  6 Nov 08, 12:21

  Originally posted by JitKiat:

  Quote from http://ir.lib.au.edu.tw/dspace/bitstream/987654321/44/1/0193035583.pdf

  「智者大師從教法與證法的綜å�ˆä¸­ï¼Œçªºï¨Šä½›å­¸é«”系，也就是教法的淺深，修證悟入的淺深歷程。……如以客觀研究的眼光，智者大師的教學，並不理想。如『中ï¥�ã€�明說『諸佛ä¾�二諦ã€�，他å�»ä¾�『中ï¥�ã€�而談三諦。……引用經ï¥�，或是截å�–一節ã€�一句；或是刪略幾字；而且引用å�½ç¶“，著實不少ï¼�然而，智者大師是無比的å�‰å¤§ï¼�正是中國佛學完滿的典型ï¼�這是上承å�°ï¨�é‡�修證的大乘經師的傳統──乙型。憑修證的經驗，貫通經ï¥�……。舉比喻說：客觀研究者，是工筆畫；費盡工夫，未必畫好，說不定『畫匠ã€�而已。而乙型的佛學，é‡�修證而教觀çµ�å�ˆçš„佛學，是寫æ„�的，有時是漫畫å¼�的。你說不å°�嗎？å�»æ˜¯è¶Šçœ‹è¶Šåƒ�，神氣活ç�¾ï¼�被稱為『畫家ã€�。客觀研究者，是科學化的，有æ¢�有理，使人了解。而乙型的佛學，是è—�術化的，使人啟發，使人感動，使人忘我。

  �順法師將學�分為三大�型：「知識的學���「知識與經驗相��的學��與「經驗的學��。「乙型��是指第二種「知識與經驗相��的學��。

  I think Master Yin Shun is great in the sense that he is brave enough to give both positive and negative comments to Chinese Mahayana sects like TianTai (智者大師 belongs to TianTai) and Pureland, well knowing that this will invite flame and misunderstanding. But he did state that his comment was purely from 客觀研究者 perspective. Of course, Master Yin Shun is not just a 客觀研究者. He is most admired due to his compassion as an advocate of Humanistic Buddhism - his guidance to his disciple - TzuChi foundation's Master Cheng Yen was - 为佛教， 为众生。

  Absolutely true.

• JitKiat

  7 Nov 08, 18:22

  http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-BJ001/93570.htm

  Quote from Master Sheng Yen from Dharma Drum:

  已往的�和論者，會把�宗�系的觀點，調和統�著解釋，例如智旭�太虛兩�大師，都是站在 中國佛教的立場，投�中國文化大一統的�想，將�系發展以後的佛法，給予整��為彼此互通互�的全體佛教，故�希望性宗與相宗分河飲水，互相角力，因為自 �末以後的中國佛教，早就有了�嚴與禪��，禪與淨土雙修，此以永明延壽的《宗�錄》等為代表。元以後則有顯密圓�論者，到了明代的蕅益智旭，則極力主張 相宗與性宗的互為表�。當時尚未有大乘三系之說，大家以�樹為八宗的共祖，所以有天�宗引中觀為自宗的�想，�嚴宗也被視為與唯識學互通，並未有人指出中 國佛教的��賢�禪�淨，都是真常唯心論，法相宗是虛妄唯識論，中觀是性空唯�論。到了太虛大師雖已發�大乘佛教的三宗──法性空慧宗�法相唯識宗�法界 圓覺宗，但是他用法界圓覺宗來統�諸宗，主張八宗皆圓，這也正是智旭大師常說的「圓人說法無法�圓�。從這兩�大師之間的先後呼應，也�以看出他們的苦 心，是在於將百�奔騰的�系佛法，導歸一法界，便�一乘味，這是《法�經》的�想背景，也是真常唯心論的特色。

  �順長�則從佛教的發展���期�典的�立�，以��系佛教的地域分佈�來探討�題， 希望大家��硬把��時代背景���地�背景����想文化環境中發展出來的�種特色特性的佛法，打和�為一個局�的�考模�，那就會迷失了佛陀的本懷， 模糊了佛法的本義。所以��探索�題，是採用循葉得�，循�得幹，循幹見根的方�。在熱帶雨林中的一棵�年�年的大樹巨木，�葉�茂，都在�一棵樹上長有 �種形態的�葉�花��藤蔓，若��心探研，就�能將寄生在樹幹樹�上的其他�物，當作樹的本身了。寄生�物時間久了，也是能與樹身共存共榮的，所以寄生 的�一定就無用，但那畢竟�是樹的本身。

  �順長�處�真常唯心論，是站在循末見本的角度，他�會�定此一系的佛法，

  更�會�為那是寄生於佛教的外�。因為發展的佛教，就是從根本的原始的法義基礎上開展出 來，��以說�是佛世的產�就�是佛法，其實發展後的大乘精神，更能顯�出佛陀�極救世化世的本懷。真常唯心系的佛教，雖屬於後期大乘，但它確有阿�佛教 的基礎�據，也有�方大眾部分別說系的基礎，也有經�部譬喻師的影響，��也特別指出，《起信論》�有錫蘭佛教《解脫�論》的影響。 更有�少的大乘經論如《楞伽經》�《�鬘經》�《如來�經》等作後盾，甚至談到《大乘起信論》的背景資料中，也有�傳唯識《�大乘論》的內容。��的目 的，便是�借講說《起信論》的因緣，把真常唯心論的佛法，自�一系的��出來，點明它旳來�去脈，�用籠統和會，�必擔心發�了諸系法義的互相出入而會讓 人感到懷疑�信。這也正是歷�的方法論，所表�出來的治學態度�其�信的�果。

  ====

  I also heard an excellent summary form 净界法师。 According to him, 东方人求美， 西方人求真，��求善。 求真容易得罪人，求美容易失真， ��应求善。