Buddhist perspective on mental illness
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are there any sutras where the buddha mentioned about mental problems and illnesses. needless to say its all about karma but it'd be nice if there's some detailed and wise explanation about it. thanks in advance
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I'm not too sure if there are any specific sutras talking about this subject. But some (not all) mental illnesses are caused by spirit interferences.
As the Admin of another buddhist forum (e-sangha), who also happens to be a doctor of tibetan medicine, wrote:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=80865&st=0
Not in English, unfortunately. Different types of non-humans cause different types of symptoms, such as those afflicted by bhramas for example like to wear white, speak in religious language, like mantras, and so on.
N
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If they are Buddhists, they should accept the fact that non-human beings can cause mental illness in human beings. Many kinds of mental illness are completely treatable through Buddhist medicine.
Pretas, Nagas, etc., can all negatively affect both the physical and mental health of human beings.
There are also the research based theories of Aryas-- but their findings are not available to those without the divine eye.
N-----
As someone who is going to graduate with a degree in Indo-Tibetan medicine in 2009, treating bhuta illnesses is time consuming and complicated. I concur that specialized skills are needed for such treatments, and sadly, such people are often drugged with psyche meds putting them beyond the capacity to helped by traditional Indo-Tibetan medical methods. On the other hand, for most people, the alternative is worse, in some instances, the kind of treatment people receive for severe mental illnesses we would typify as being afflicted by bhutas could not find treatment for there problem simply do to the lack of practitioners of traditional Buddhist medicine.
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Severe psychosis of various kinds, depression (which is often kapha affecting the heart) and so on, diagnosed through observation of behavior, pulse diagnosis and urine.
Thailand once had a system of medicine more or less the same as Indian Ayurveda and Tibetan Medicine (with some cultural differences of course) which the Thais, like the Tibetans, trace back to Jivak Kumara, the Buddha's physician. Unfortunately, the systems of Ayurveda as practiced in Southeast Asia was destroyed by European Colonialism.
The only remnant of the Thai system of Medicine remaining is Thai Massage.
Treatments for mental illnesses are a combination of herbs, diet, massage and bloodletting, as well as rituals. They are extremely effective and my teacher has a great deal of experience completely curing patients in Tibet who would wind up on severe psych meds here like Haldol and so on if they lived in this country.
Frankly, bhuta possession explains many chronic mental illnesses for which patients only receive palliative care in the West.
Generally in our diagnostic protocol, we treat first through diet, then medicine, then therapies such as moxabustion, bloodletting and acupuncture, and if these methods are found not to be effective, or of limited effect, we begin to search for bhuta involvement in an illness.
But we think that a large number of severe mental illnesses are left untreated because western medicine is unable to cope with bhuta possession.
Non-human beings cause many kinds of illnesses, not only mental illness. Many skin diseases that seem difficult to cure are caused by Naga attacks, for example.
N
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thanks for the reply. im more interested about mental illnesses which are not caused by spirit interferences, i.e. those which are due to biological/brain chemistry/genetic etc. thanks
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Originally posted by disappear:
are there any sutras where the buddha mentioned about mental problems and illnesses. needless to say its all about karma but it'd be nice if there's some detailed and wise explanation about it. thanks in advance
Even if it is mental illness caused by biological/brain damage or whatever, it will still trace back to the karma.
One of the reasons/karma is that in the past the person disturbed people who was doing meditation or disturb their concentration of doing auspicious things especially those related to dharma. -
Eh you might want to take a look at this?
http://diydharma.org/buddhism-and-mental-illness-ajahn-brahmavamso
it's a dharma talk by a monk.
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I would like to share something here.I am a mental patient.I always have relapses in Bukit Batok.I would like to warn my fellow friends not to venture into Bukit Batok.
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taoism is better than buddhism, for mental illness
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I'm not too sure if there are any specific sutras talking about this subject. But some (not all) mental illnesses are caused by spirit interferences.
As the Admin of another buddhist forum (e-sangha), who also happens to be a doctor of tibetan medicine, wrote:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=80865&st=0
Not in English, unfortunately. Different types of non-humans cause different types of symptoms, such as those afflicted by bhramas for example like to wear white, speak in religious language, like mantras, and so on.
N
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If they are Buddhists, they should accept the fact that non-human beings can cause mental illness in human beings. Many kinds of mental illness are completely treatable through Buddhist medicine.
Pretas, Nagas, etc., can all negatively affect both the physical and mental health of human beings.
There are also the research based theories of Aryas-- but their findings are not available to those without the divine eye.
N-----
As someone who is going to graduate with a degree in Indo-Tibetan medicine in 2009, treating bhuta illnesses is time consuming and complicated. I concur that specialized skills are needed for such treatments, and sadly, such people are often drugged with psyche meds putting them beyond the capacity to helped by traditional Indo-Tibetan medical methods. On the other hand, for most people, the alternative is worse, in some instances, the kind of treatment people receive for severe mental illnesses we would typify as being afflicted by bhutas could not find treatment for there problem simply do to the lack of practitioners of traditional Buddhist medicine.
N-----
Severe psychosis of various kinds, depression (which is often kapha affecting the heart) and so on, diagnosed through observation of behavior, pulse diagnosis and urine.
Thailand once had a system of medicine more or less the same as Indian Ayurveda and Tibetan Medicine (with some cultural differences of course) which the Thais, like the Tibetans, trace back to Jivak Kumara, the Buddha's physician. Unfortunately, the systems of Ayurveda as practiced in Southeast Asia was destroyed by European Colonialism.
The only remnant of the Thai system of Medicine remaining is Thai Massage.
Treatments for mental illnesses are a combination of herbs, diet, massage and bloodletting, as well as rituals. They are extremely effective and my teacher has a great deal of experience completely curing patients in Tibet who would wind up on severe psych meds here like Haldol and so on if they lived in this country.
Frankly, bhuta possession explains many chronic mental illnesses for which patients only receive palliative care in the West.
Generally in our diagnostic protocol, we treat first through diet, then medicine, then therapies such as moxabustion, bloodletting and acupuncture, and if these methods are found not to be effective, or of limited effect, we begin to search for bhuta involvement in an illness.
But we think that a large number of severe mental illnesses are left untreated because western medicine is unable to cope with bhuta possession.
Non-human beings cause many kinds of illnesses, not only mental illness. Many skin diseases that seem difficult to cure are caused by Naga attacks, for example.
N
NHow about some good advice from me? Simply said, don't run off saying that western medicine or scientific basis of dianogsis is no good. Report to IMH for treatment first before consulting any religious teachings.
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I'm never against mainstream medicine. Just, when mainstream medicine doesn't work, one should try the alternatives.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I'm never against mainstream medicine. Just, when mainstream medicine doesn't work, one should try the alternatives.
Just that if mainstream medicine doesn't work, it means that usually there's no cure. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just that if mainstream medicine doesn't work, it means that usually there's no cure.
not necessarily...? -
Originally posted by disappear:
not necessarily...?
grammartical error, no question mark at the end unless you are also skeptical of religion being able to help in this field. -
Mentall ill...
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
grammartical error, no question mark at the end unless you are also skeptical of religion being able to help in this field.
there is no error in that simple 2-word post of mine, even though u are free to interpret it any way u wish. -
The Buddha taught that all mental suffering, whether major or minor is due to our ignorance, attachment and aversion, and we need to tame our mind and see the reality as it is.
Regarding how the mental suffering comes about, try contemplating on Interdependent Origination.
See: http://www.dhammadana.org/en/dhamma/paticca_samuppada.htm.
The main thing is that we are not contented with simplicity (simple living) because the world teaches us the opposite, so we want more to live up to the world's standard which is based on commercialism and driving economy. When we don't get what we want or have things go our way as preferred, we become unhappy. Afflictive emotions arise due to attachment, aversion, craving and self-cherishing. With time, when it happens too many times, unhappiness becomes a strong habitual tendency in us and affects us mentally.
What we need to do is to understand our suffering and the reality as it is as taught in the Dharma, learn to be contented with what we have, try to tame our mind, so that we control it instead of letting it controls us. Try to abandon bias perception and anything that gives rise to aversion, attachment and self-cherishing.
It is easier said than done, but if we don't start somewhere, we will always be unhappy.
A simple day to day exercise is to observe the suffering of others, understand it, reflect upon it and derive ways to counteract them if it happens to us, so that when it really happens to us, we are ready to tackle it in a more effective and efficient way.
If we are already in the rut of mental suffering, then try looking at our suffering as a third party and understand it according to the Dharma point of view. In this way, we will be more able to come to terms with our suffering and have a more optimisstic outlook.
Our mind needs food all the time, so give it something postitive to grasp on and try to let go of negativeness and be happy.
May all be well and happy always. Om Mani Padme Hum.
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Personally, I find the practice of letting go of disappointments and worries a good exercise to tackle with mental suffering and helps in the recovery from long-term extreme unhappiness.
With Mani
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Originally posted by Kim123:
The Buddha taught that all mental suffering, whether major or minor is due to our ignorance, attachment and aversion, and we need to tame our mind and see the reality as it is.
Regarding how the mental suffering comes about, try contemplating on Interdependent Origination.
See: http://www.dhammadana.org/en/dhamma/paticca_samuppada.htm.
The main thing is that we are not contented with simplicity (simple living) because the world teaches us the opposite, so we want more to live up to the world's standard which is based on commercialism and driving economy. When we don't get what we want or have things go our way as preferred, we become unhappy. Afflictive emotions arise due to attachment, aversion, craving and self-cherishing. With time, when it happens too many times, unhappiness becomes a strong habitual tendency in us and affects us mentally.
What we need to do is to understand our suffering and the reality as it is as taught in the Dharma, learn to be contented with what we have, try to tame our mind, so that we control it instead of letting it controls us. Try to abandon bias perception and anything that gives rise to aversion, attachment and self-cherishing.
It is easier said than done, but if we don't start somewhere, we will always be unhappy.
A simple day to day exercise is to observe the suffering of others, understand it, reflect upon it and derive ways to counteract them if it happens to us, so that when it really happens to us, we are ready to tackle it in a more effective and efficient way.
If we are already in the rut of mental suffering, then try looking at our suffering as a third party and understand it according to the Dharma point of view. In this way, we will be more able to come to terms with our suffering and have a more optimisstic outlook.
Our mind needs food all the time, so give it something postitive to grasp on and try to let go of negativeness and be happy.
May all be well and happy always. Om Mani Padme Hum.
Are you sure? When a person feels pain as joy and happiness, is the pain truly suffering? How does one master Buddhism except comphreheding the subject as it is and not by one's own biasness? -
Originally posted by disappear:
there is no error in that simple 2-word post of mine, even though u are free to interpret it any way u wish.
I do not wish to misinterpret but I do question your personal values. Open mindedness means that you have to question your own choices and understanding. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Are you sure? When a person feels pain as joy and happiness, is the pain truly suffering? How does one master Buddhism except comphreheding the subject as it is and not by one's own biasness?'Are you sure?' -> Sorry, I am not sure what you are referring to. If I have understood anything incorrectly, please kindly share your understanding. I am still a beginner and I share based on my limited understanding and experience at the present moment. I thought it could be useful since I always find what others have shared useful in triggering thoughts for further consideration and contemplation.
'When a person feels pain as joy and happiness, is the pain truly suffering?'
-> I don't think pain can be felt as joy and happiness. Unless you are referring to the joy when one recognizes the pain (suffering) as beneficial in bringing spiritual happiness, that is, as a motivation to seek and practice the dharma for cessation of suffering and deter complacency. Is this what you meant? If not, please kindly share your understanding and experience.
'How does one master Buddhism except comprehending the subject as it is and not by one's own biasness?'
-> The Buddha taught the Four Reliances that one could use as a guide to learn and recognize the dharma.
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To abide in the dharma and not the person
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To abide in Sutras of Ultimate Truth and not in Sutras of Incomplete Truth
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To abide in the meaning and not the word
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To abide in Wisdom and not in Consciousness
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/oldweb/bdoor/archive/nutshell/teach2.htm#t4
From the four reliances, I think it is quite clear that there are possibilities of understanding, accepting and rejecting the teachings with biasness. Even with these guidelines given, I think it is still difficult to comprehend the dharma as it is. At least, this is for my case, since I am a deluded being with much defilements and mental obscurations.
As to how to prevent incorrect understanding of the teachings, besides using the Four Reliances as a reminder, I also try to be mindful and always double check my understanding by continuous learning, contemplation, practice and investigation, something like the Plan-Do-Check-Action cycle of quality control, whenever opportunities arise. I find it very beneficial for me to have a highly realised dharma practitioner as my Root Guru and noble friends to guide me along the path as I learn and practice to discover for myself the truth about the dharma at my level of mental capacity and develop my aptitude further. Do you have anyway of doing this better that could be useful to me?
With Mani,
Kim
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What are the parameters of sanity ? Buddha said that all of us are deluded and he was asked what he meant by delusion and he replied "when you saw a rope and thought that it was a snake."
Personal experience. Once my former colleagues wanted to drive me crazy for the simple reason that they could not proved my dishonesty. They tried all manner of things to do it and everytime they did it I collected concrete evidences of their evil and malicious intentions. The reason they tried so hard to discredit me was that they were so afraid that I would exposed their lies and deceptions "in high places". They manipulated my wife to help them and our marriage ended in divorce. Before the divorce my wife convinced me to see a counsellor. I presented my case with concrete evidences of the attempts at trying to make me appear as crazy. The doctor finally concluded and reported it to my wife that I do not exhibit any evidences of delusions but I was still deluded as I was very clever at covering up my delusions.
So even without any evidences he could see my delusions. Isn't that what buddha described as delusion ? A year after my divorce someone concrete - not imagined - told me everything that my ex-wife and my colleagues did. Everything fell into place - the lies and the fabrication of events. So I was seeing very clearly with evidences painfully and carefully collected to verify what I thought and my world view then.
I brought this up to underline the danger of thinking or treating someone as mentally ill totally on the word of others. Some times people's motive are less than noble while telling you that they are doing it out of kindness of their heart.
I remember once also while distributing food to an elderly, the elderly became very fearful and told me how the neighbour was trying to harm her. I asked her why she said what she said and she pulled me towards her toilet. In there she pointed me to some scratches on the floor that looked like a man. She said the neighbour had cast a spell and cause the man to appear in her toilet to harm her. I proceeded to pull her to her balcony and searched for a cloud I could use and fortunately there was one. I pointed to a cloud that looked like a person smiling benignly down on her and I asked her what she saw ? She smiled and understood. I wanted to understand her condition and started asking her background. She was just like you and I but I felt her sense of loneliness and such sense of loneliness often made us - even amongst the best of us - to see and hear things.
I brought this up to underline a very simple fact of life that even amongst the best of us, our delusions could be accentuated given the right circumstances,that could make our life hell on earth.
All of us are deluded as defined by buddha but to every buddhist that I asked when I was in singapore NONE said that they were deluded. The best they could offer was that they were 'sometimes' deluded and could not see clearly. Given that all of us due to karmic obscuration could not see clearly then up to what degree would we consider that such delusions become an illness ? I would use harm as the criteria - harm to ourselves and to others.Even when we go around trying to malign others could be considered as such illness. Our delusions make us insensitive. Our clever rationalisations make us feel good with the bad that we do.
Does buddhism with all its meditation, philosophy and teachings offer a way out of such intense and accentuated delusions ? My brief answer is a no. These delusions have to be resolved at a deeper level. We can't use a dirty cloth (the mind) to clean the mind. Some energetic meditations can help but these were not taught by buddha.
I believe chinese medicine do hold vital keys to helping the people resolve such difficulties. Western medicine had failed miserably.( <!-- @page { size: 21cm 29.7cm; margin: 2cm } P.sdfootnote { margin-left: 0.5cm; text-indent: -0.5cm; margin-bottom: 0cm; font-size: 10pt } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } -->Shankar Vedantam,“Against Depression, sugar pill is hard to beat”, Washington Post May 7,2002;Page A01) All the mindless killings we read these days , many of it were a result of such medication.
Please check : a. ACUPUNCTURE AND PSYCHIATRY, Dr. S. W. Wong
M.B., B.S. ( H. K.) M. R. C. Psych ( U. K.)b. Towards a Spirit at Peace - Understanding the Treatment of Shen disorders with Chinese medicine , Subhuti Dharmananda
May all be well and happy.
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Oftentimes the powerful and the greedy destroy another not because they were incredible or not credible but precisely because they were credible.
Anonymous.
This phrase reminded me of Stalin.
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Thank you kim123 and djhampa both for your responses.
kim, what u have detailed in your posts have to do with the general mental suffering that human beings in general face as their experience in life, and not regarding those with neurological/mental disorders, e.g. obsessive compulsive disorder, bipolar, schizophrenia, which i had originally wanted to bring into the subject of discussion on this thread.
All of us are deluded as defined by buddha but to every buddhist that I asked when I was in singapore NONE said that they were deluded. The best they could offer was that they were 'sometimes' deluded and could not see clearly. Given that all of us due to karmic obscuration could not see clearly then up to what degree would we consider that such delusions become an illness ? I would use harm as the criteria - harm to ourselves and to others.Even when we go around trying to malign others could be considered as such illness. Our delusions make us insensitive. Our clever rationalisations make us feel good with the bad that we do.
Does buddhism with all its meditation, philosophy and teachings offer a way out of such intense and accentuated delusions ? My brief answer is a no. These delusions have to be resolved at a deeper level. We can't use a dirty cloth (the mind) to clean the mind. Some energetic meditations can help but these were not taught by buddha.
I believe chinese medicine do hold vital keys to helping the people resolve such difficulties. Western medicine had failed miserably.( <!-- @page { size: 21cm 29.7cm; margin: 2cm } P.sdfootnote { margin-left: 0.5cm; text-indent: -0.5cm; margin-bottom: 0cm; font-size: 10pt } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } -->Shankar Vedantam,“Against Depression, sugar pill is hard to beat”, Washington Post May 7,2002;Page A01) All the mindless killings we read these days , many of it were a result of such medication.
thanks djhampa for sharing these things, they are really meaningful.
Those in your case there are some who wrongly refer to others as having mental illness, i am talking about real cases here, with the cause of their mental being more of physiological rather than psychological.
I agree with you on your perceptive that all of humans are deluded and bounded with karmic obstructions. i dont really understand why the buddhists u questioned said they were not deluded. I as a buddhist would agree with u i am totally deluded, not to mention the delusion is made worse by my condition of neurological mental problem.
Does buddhism with all its meditation, philosophy and teachings offer a way out of such intense and accentuated delusions ? My brief answer is a no. These delusions have to be resolved at a deeper level. We can't use a dirty cloth (the mind) to clean the mind.
I do not know how much of an extent buddhist meditation, philosophy and teachings offer a way out of intense and accentuated delusions u are talking about, in my opinion, and especially for those with mental illnesses, these methods are an impossibility. and i cant agree more with u that we cannot use the already deluded mind, to attempt to clean the mind and get out of this delusion. at least that is my belief in the present times, it is very difficult if not an impossibilty.
You expressed that buddhism does not have a way to resolve this. my answer to this is pureland buddhism, and relying on the other-power of the Buddha, by buddha recitation, and I would recommend to read more into Jodo shu pureland buddhism, and teachings by Honen. www.purelandsect.org
i also agree with u, that western medication drugs are unable to cure or heal the mental illness i have mentioned in question, these drugs only treat or cover up the symptoms while u are on them, but are unable to restore the mental health of the sufferer.
i would think that in this respect chinese medicine has indeed more potential.
I think i have more or less found my own answer of how to address and treat my obsessive compulsive disorder, and thanks for the responses.
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Originally posted by disappear:
open mindedness also means not questioning and judging other's values with a touch of sarcasm and banging on pedantic things like just one question mark. neither is open mindedness questioning everything with skeptism.open mindedness also means not inferring and changing the meaning of my sentences(i never said u misinterpreted), and trying to correct others and bring open mindedness into the picture when it is not even the subject of discussion here.
bcos you stated your stance with a question mark. Can a statement be a question or vice versa? Yes, open-mindedness is question everything you decide upon with skeptism but then again, one can never be sure of anything or everything.Did I make a statement about misinterpreting your views? I was questioning your personal values on this matter. Buddhism insist on maintaining an open mind yet maintaining a farce accepting science for arbitation.
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i certainly dont know what kind of ideas u do have, and decided i do not wish to continue this pointless conversation, therefore i changed my mind about my post and removed the comment, without knowing u still had the affinity to catch it....so, i will leave it as it is.
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Karma plays a part..
I'm not exactly sure..
Maybe our 8th house consciousness moulded our different faculties during our gestation in the mother womb.