Anyone heard of Eckhart Tolle ? Hes the author of the book - The Power of Now.
What do you guys think about his enlightenment?
Did he ever meditate?
Can someone gain elightenment w/o meditation?
Thank you everyone for your answers :)
I too have read his books, in addition to many of those by many Eastern authors (relative to where I'm from in the UK). To save you a long journey and alot of time (whilst accepting that this is only my view and isn't perhaps "Truth"), the questions I've been left with are as follows:
1) Where would most of us have found the concepts of God - or Zen - or enlightenment if they had not been given to us by our Teachers, Priests and Peers who only have as much authority as we place in them - or otherwise? How else would you or I have stumbled upon these concepts? We CHOOSE OURSELVES whether to believe these people. We don't KNOW that they really know anything other than us - otherwise religious leaders of all faiths and the like would be in agreement. It is largly through respect that we follow the teachings of our peers . So, firstly, we are told to chase a rainbow that we don't even know actually exists and then our own minds - the ones that must've actually decided to place some authority in these teachings - start either running after them or attempting to worhip them. Therefore, are we merely chasing a projection of our own minds in the hope that we'll attain some "thing?" No offence is intended with this question. I might be a 'westerner' but I have given a lot of serious thought to all this.
First of all I would like to say that I find Eckhart Tolle's books to be very transformative and inspiring. I still refer back to some of the pointers in it from time to time, just a reminder of the ever-present Nowness/Presence. I would recommend it to those who have not read his books -- even non-Buddhists, since it is written in a non-religious context yet embraces the truths of all the world's contemplative traditions.
Now regarding meditation, it should be noted that it is not the length of one's meditation that determines the quality and success of that meditation.
As Ajahn Chah replied,
Q: Is it necessary to sit for very long stretches?
Answer: No, sitting for hours on end is not necessary. Some people think that the longer you can sit, the wiser you must be. I have seen chickens sit on their nests for days on end! Wisdom comes from being mindful in all postures. Your practice should begin as you awaken in the morning. It should continue until you fall asleep. Don't be concerned about how long you can sit. What is important is only that you keep watchful whether you are working or sitting or going to the bathroom. Each person has his own natural pace. Some of you will die at age fifty, some at age sixty-five, and some at age ninety. So, too, your practice will not be all identical. Don't think or worry about this. Try to be mindful and let things take their natural course. Then your mind will become quieter and quieter in any surroundings. It will become still like a clear forest pool. Then all kinds of wonderful and rare animals will come to drink at the pool. You will see clearly the nature of all things (sankharas) in the world. You will see many wonderful and strange things come and go. But you will be still. Problems will arise and you will see through them immediately. This is the happiness of the Buddha.
But certainly 30 min to 1 hour of sitting meditation every day is recommendable everyday, but beginners may start with something less. But in any case 'quality' is more important than the 'length' of meditation. 1 hour of non-mindful meditation amounts to little or nothing. Eckhart Tolle himself recommends spending time each day practicing inner body or breathe awareness meditation.
On the other hand there's a Zen story which goes:
Day after day Ma-tsu sat in meditation, until his Master
finally questioned him about it. Ma-tsu explained that he was hoping to attain
Buddhahood. The Master picked up a piece of tile and began to rub it with a
stone. When Ma-tsu asked him what he was doing, he replied that he was
polishing the tile to make it a mirror.
"How can you polish a tile into a
mirror?" Ma-tsu asked.
"How can one become a buddha by sitting in meditation?" the
Master shot back.
Even though meditation is very important, we should not view it as a gradual way of seeking to 'contact' spirit. Our Buddha-Nature is not something that can be reached after periods of practice, it has never been lacking nor will it gain anything after realisation -- it is already fully complete, right here and now. We only 'overlook' it but it is actually very obvious and intimate, like space, but our attention always 'absorbs' in the particular (i.e. attached and identified to our thoughts, emotions and feelings) and overlook the obvious and simple. Our ever-present Presence is never lost at any single moment, and if we do meditation to seek Spirit instead of noticing the Obvious, then we are like sitting on a bull searching for the bull. We should not seek anything (including 'enlightenment' which is just our mental projection arising from the false notion of a 'separate self' that can 'have' an 'enlightenment experience').
Just notice Presence Awareness and rest in that. It is always here and can be noticed at all moments, that is why 'spontaneous awakenings' can occur. Presence being Ever-Present is not the result of a gradual process -- though through practice we rest in Presence more frequently and easily and automatically/effortlessly.
Eckhart Tolle may not have done formal sitting meditation, but his intense suffering (almost to the point of suicide) led him to deeply inquire 'Who am I'? That inquiry finally resolved all doubts and he gained an intuitive insight into his true nature.
This is the mental 'dialogue' that happened right before his realisation:
‘I cannot live with myself any longer.’ This was the thought that kept
repeating itself in my mind. Then suddenly I became aware of what a
peculiar thought it was. ‘Am I one or two? If I cannot live with
myself, there must be two of me: the ‘I’ and the ‘self’ that ‘I’ cannot
live with.’ ‘Maybe,’ I thought, ‘only one of them is real.’
It should be noted another case of spontaneous awakening, Ramana Maharshi, who experienced rigor mortis and similarly did self-inquiry that led to his spontaneous awakening at 16.
Our forum moderator Thusness also did the 'Who am I' inquiry for some time, and then one day realised pure presence. (see http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html) But even that is just an initial realisation, the start of the path to greater unfolding of insights into the nature of reality or Presence.
Therefore, we should not make the mistake of thinking that the experience Eckhart Tolle had on that day, or Ramana Maharshi, or anyone, is the 'final experience'.
Also, for most people even though there are glimpses of the ever-present Presence, it usually takes a period of 'settling in'. For example in the account of awakening of Candice,
"She then went through an profound personal crisis which led her into states of intense fear, alienation and despair. During that period she found that everything she had learned through psychology, philosophy, religion, and all other belief systems she had studied were of no help to her whatsoever.
Furthermore, every remedy she had previously relied on to give her relief, including alcohol and marijuana, now gave her no relief at all. During that extended period of being overwhelmed by negative emotional states, she somehow discovered that beneath all those states, there was a “basic space of pure awareness” which was free from suffering, a space of complete relief. She gradually familiarized herself with that basic space by resting as awareness for short moments, repeated many times, and soon she was able to rest in that awareness for 10 continuous days. At that point “awareness rose like the sun”, and from then on that unchanging space of pure awareness became her primary reality, and the painful thoughts and emotional states which had tormented her faded away like stars in the light of day. Her discovery of all-encompassing pure awareness, and the complete relief that comes with it, proved to be permanent. From this profound awakening the Great Freedom teachings have come, offering a simple and direct path for others to gain the same realization, and the same permanent relief from suffering."
"Candice says that all that is needed to realize the timeless freedom that is our true nature is to “rest as awareness”. To “rest as awareness, for short moments, repeated many times until it becomes automatic” is her one and only recommendation for the attainment of complete happiness and well-being, which she has been living in for more than 25 years, and which she says a number of others have gained through following her teachings."
Even Eckhart Tolle talked about deepening of his experience over the course of years after his initial experience. People like Ramana Maharshi (I've read somewhere) also talked about this.
Douglas Harding author of "On Having No Head: Zen and the Rediscovery of the Obvious" also said:
"while this simple in-seeing is potentially all we have claimed for it (and much more), it is actually -- for almost everybody -- just another passing experience among the myriads that go to make up a human life. You couldn't even call it a first step along the Way; or, if you could, it's the sort of first step that doesn't count. Some, however, do go on."
"Now the 'hard' part begins, which is the repetition of this headless seeing-into-Nothingness till the seeing becomes quite natural and nothing special at all; till, whatever one is doing, it's clear that nobody's here doing it."
"At first, the essential practice requires much effort of attention. Normally, one takes years or decades to arrive at anything like steady and spontaneous in-seeing. Nevertheless, the method is quite simple and the same throughout. It consists of ceasing to overlook the looker -- or rather, the absence of the looker. Some find the practice very hard going for a very long time. Others -- notably younger seers who have devoted fewer years and less effort to building the fictitious person at the centre of their universe -- take to it more readily."
Ken Wilber also wrote in the article Constant Consciousness:
"Sitting here on the porch, watching the sun go down. Except there is no watcher, just the sun, setting, setting. From purest Emptiness, brilliant clarity shines forth. The sound of the birds, over there. Clouds, a few, right up there. But there is no "up," no "down," no "over," and no "there"-because there is no "me" or "I" for which these directions make sense. There is just this. Simple, clear, easy, effortless, ever-present this."
"...I had had several kensho or satori-like experiences (glimpses of One Taste), but they were all confined to the waking state."
"...I was on an intensive Dzogchen retreat with my primary Dzogchen teacher, Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche. Rinpoche also stressed the importance of carrying the mirror-mind into the dream and deep sleep states. I began having flashes of this constant nondual awareness, through all states, which Rinpoche confirmed. But it wasn't until a few years later, during a very intense eleven-day period-in which the separate-self seemed to radically, deeply, thoroughly die-that it all seemed to come to fruition. I slept not at all during those eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days; or rather, I was conscious for eleven days and nights, even as the body and mind went through waking, dreaming and sleeping. I was unmoved in the midst of changes; there was no I to be moved; there was only unwavering empty consciousness, the luminous mirror-mind, the witness that was one with everything witnessed. I simply reverted to what I am, and it has been so, more or less, ever since."
In another instant he said "The constant consciousness through all states -- waking, dreaming, and sleeping -- tends to occur after many years of meditating; in my case, about twenty-five years."
Now regarding Eckhart Tolle's enlightenment, I should say that there are various depths of insight, and as our moderator Longchen himself wrote based on his experiences in his article Enlightenment is a gradual process ,
This essay is not a definitive writing on this subject of enlightenment. The following is just an expression of my own experiences and findings. There seems to be a notion that enlightenment is just one final state. Many also believe that when one has certain transcendental or mystical experience, that experience is final and complete. This assumption is perhaps popularised by the classic stories of enlightenment that are widely known. Also there is much granduer associated with this notion of Enlightenment which, in my opinion, is totally overhyped and uncalled for. |
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My opinion is that
enlightenment is not just one 'standard' final state but is a gradual and progressive
establishing of states of consciousness. The process is a
succesive unfoldment and transformation, leading to increasingly clear understanding
of the dynamics of consciousness. So perhaps, enlightenment
as described by various persons and traditions can be referring to different
states of consciousness. Usually there is a difference between an initial
awakening and a later stabilisation of that stage. |
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This stage may persist for sometime before the person realises the illusion of subject-object division. This stage involves discovering and recognising the hypnotic impression of there being an observer (which is oneself) and the being observed. Typically, this is where one begins to see through the illusionary nature of our phenomenal world. This entire band of realisation stage is often known as non-dual experience or non-duality. After the intial experiences of non-duality, the person may reach a even more profound realisation. This is the realisation that everything that is being experienced is truely spontaneously manifesting. This realisation is more subtle than the previous realisation and represents a major leap in understanding. Also, in the further stages of the enlightenment process, there are experiences of increasing brightness to one's consciousness. This brightness is the result of mind's deconstruction which allows for intense penetration into consciousness. While there may well be other stages not described here, nevertheless, one can still see from the above description that enlightenment is not so straight-forward after all. One more thing to add. Realisations and karmic
pattern clearing go hand in hand on the spiritual path.
If you are interested you may also wish to read about the series of realisations that I had on my path of enlightenment as well as other essays related to this subject of enlightenment. Click here for the articles.
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(end of article)
So as you can see, enlightenment isn't a 'one final event' but a gradual unfoldment of insights.
Now in the case of Eckhart Tolle, his experience and teachings is still on the 'I AM' -- he teaches that we are not our thoughts, we are the eternal Witness/Watcher of our thoughts. He teaches that we are not the transient, but the eternal void background underneath all forms that comes and goes. That is the experience of "I AM" -- the sense of presence-being-awareness that stays forever as the aware-void ground reality that give rises to all things and into which all things return, yet itself unmoved. He has undoubtedly experienced 'Stage 1' and 'Stage 2' of Thusness's Six Stages of Experience: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html
However, this is still not the full insight. Further insights will clarify that Consciousness can never be separated from manifestation. In seeing there is always only the seen, no seer. In hearing only sounds, no hearer. In thinking there is no watcher of thoughts nor thinker -- only thoughts.
Each thought, sound, phenomena, are all self-luminous, 'knowing' phenomena. No watcher needed, the process itself knows and rolls as Venerable Buddhaghosa writes in the Visuddhi Magga. One no longer sinks back to a source or a void background, because it is seen that All Manifestation/Appearance is the Source. There is no 'one' behind it all -- no one 'watching', only the self-luminous display of appearances. This also explains the difference between Hinduism's Atman-Brahman (Self = God) and Buddhism's Anatta (No-Self).
Further insights will clarify that not only is the nature of reality empty of a self/observer/subject, all phenomena are also empty, and dependently originated. (Stage 6 of Thusness's Six Stages of Experience)
Originally posted by Rogerbroon:I too have read his books, in addition to many of those by many Eastern authors (relative to where I'm from in the UK). To save you a long journey and alot of time (whilst accepting that this is only my view and isn't perhaps "Truth"), the questions I've been left with are as follows:
1) Where would most of us have found the concepts of God - or Zen - or enlightenment if they had not been given to us by our Teachers, Priests and Peers who only have as much authority as we place in them - or otherwise? How else would you or I have stumbled upon these concepts? We CHOOSE OURSELVES whether to believe these people. We don't KNOW that they really know anything other than us - otherwise religious leaders of all faiths and the like would be in agreement. It is largly through respect that we follow the teachings of our peers . So, firstly, we are told to chase a rainbow that we don't even know actually exists and then our own minds - the ones that must've actually decided to place some authority in these teachings - start either running after them or attempting to worhip them. Therefore, are we merely chasing a projection of our own minds in the hope that we'll attain some "thing?" No offence is intended with this question. I might be a 'westerner' but I have given a lot of serious thought to all this.
Something that might 'clarify' your doubts:
Some Writings on Non-duality by Ken Wilber
(excerpt)
There are many things that I can
doubt, but I cannot doubt my own consciousness in this moment. My
consciousness IS, and even if I tried to doubt it, it would be my
consciousness doubting. I can imagine that my senses are being
presented with a fake reality – say, a completely virtual reality or
digital reality, which looks real but is merely a series of extremely
realist images. But even then, I cannot doubt the consciousness that is
doing the watching…
The very undeniability of my present
awareness, the undeniability of my consciousness, immediately delivers
to me a certainty of existence in this moment, a certainty of Being in
the now-ness of this moment. I cannot doubt consciousness and Being in
this moment, for it is the ground of all knowing, all seeing, all
existing…
Who am I? Ask that question over and over again, deeply. Who am I? What is it in me that is conscious of everything?
If
you think that you know Spirit, or if you think you don’t, Spirit is
actually that which is thinking both of those thoughts. So you can
doubt the objects of consciousness, but you can never believably doubt
the doubter, never really doubt the Witness of the entire display.
Therefore, rest in the Witness, whether it is thinking that it knows
God or not, and that witnessing, that undeniable immediacy of
now-consciousness, is itself God, Spirit, Buddha-mind. The certainty
lies in the pure self-felt Consciousness to which objects appear, not
in the objects themselves. You will never, never, never see God,
because God is the Seer, not any finite, mortal, bounded object that
can be seen…
This pure I AM state is not hard to achieve but
impossible to escape, because it is ever present and can never really
be doubted. You can never run from Spirit, because Spirit is the
Runner. To put it very bluntly, Spirit is not hard to find but
impossible to avoid: it is that which is looking at this page right
now. Can’t you feel That One? Why on earth do you keep looking for God
when God is actually the Looker?
Simply ask, Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?
I
am aware of my feelings, so I am not my feelings – Who am I? I am aware
of my thoughts, so I am not my thoughts – Who am I? Clouds float by in
the sky, thoughts float by in the mind, feelings float by in the body –
and I am none of those because I can Witness them all.
Moreover,
I can doubt that clouds exist, I can doubt that feelings exist, I can
doubt that objects of thought exist – but I cannot doubt that the
Witness exists in this moment, because the Witness would still be there
to witness the doubt.
I am not objects in nature, not feelings
in the body, not thoughts in the mind, for I can Witness them all. I am
that Witness – a vast, spacious, empty, clear, pure, transparent
Openness that impartially notices all that arises, as a mirror
spontaneously reflects all its objects…
You can already feel
some of this Great Liberation in that, as you rest in the ease of
witnessing this moment, you already feel that you are free from the
suffocating constriction of mere objects, mere feelings, mere thoughts
– they all come and go, but you are that vast, free, empty, open
Witness of them all, untouched by their torments and tortures.
This
is actually the profound discovery of… the pure divine Self, the
formless Witness, causal nothingness, the vast Emptiness in which the
entire world arises, stays a bit, and passes. And you are That. You are
not the body, not the ego, not nature, not thoughts, not this, not that
– you are a vast Emptiness, Freedom, Release, and Liberation.
With
this discovery… you are halfway home. You have disidentified from any
and all finite objects; you rest as infinite Consciousness. You are
free, open, empty, clear, radiant, released, liberated, exalted,
drenched in a blissful emptiness that exists prior to space, prior to
time, prior to tears and terror, prior to pain and mortality and
suffering and death. You have found the great Unborn, the vast Abyss,
the unqualifiable Ground of all that is, and all that was, and all that
ever shall be.
But why is that only halfway home? Because
as you rest in the infinite ease of consciousness, spontaneously aware
of all that is arising, there will soon enough come the great
catastrophe of Freedom and Fullness: the Witness itself will disappear
entirely, and instead of witnessing the sky, you are the sky; instead
of touching the earth, you are the earth; instead of hearing the
thunder, you are the thunder. You and the entire Kosmos because One
Taste – you can drink the Pacific Ocean in a single gulp, hold Mt.
Everest in the palm of your hand; supernovas swirl in your heart and
the solar system replaces your head…
You are One Taste, the
empty mirror that is one with any and all objects that arise in its
embrace, a mindlessly vast translucent expanse: infinite, eternal,
radiant beyond release. And you… are… That…
So the primary
Cartesian dualism – which is simply the dualism between… in here and
out there, subject and object, the empty Witness and all things
witnessed – is finally undone and overcome in nondual One Taste. Once
you actually and fully contact the Witness, then – and only then – can
it be transcended into radical Nonduality, and halfway home becomes
fully home, here in the ever-present wonder of what is…
And so
how do you know that you have finally and really overcome the Cartesian
dualism? Very simple: if you really overcome the Cartesian dualism,
then you no longer feel that you are on this side of your face looking
at the world out there. There is only the world, and you are all of
that; you actually feel that you are one with everything that is
arising moment to moment. You are not merely on this side of your face
looking out there. “In here” and “out there” have become One Taste with
a shuddering obviousness and certainty so profound it feels like a
five-ton rock just dropped on your head. It is, shall we say, a feeling
hard to miss.
At that point, which is actually your ever-present
condition, there is no exclusive identity with this particular
organism, no constriction of consciousness to the head, a constriction
that makes it seem that “you” are in the head looking at the rest of
the world out there; there is no binding of attention to the personal
bodymind: instead, consciousness is one with all that is arising – a
vast, open, transparent, radiant, infinitely Free and infinitely Full
expanse that embraces the entire Kosmos, so that every single subject
and every single object are erotically united in the Great Embrace of
One Taste. You disappear from merely being behind your eyes, and you
become the All, you directly and actually feel that your basic identity
is everything that is arising moment to moment (just as previously you
felt that your identity was with this finite, partial, separate, mortal
coil of flesh you call a body). Inside and outside have become One
Taste. I tell you, it can happen just like that!
(Source:
Boomeritis, Sidebar E: “The Genius Descartes Gets a Postmodern
Drubbing: Integral Historiography in a Postmodern Age”. More to be
found in The Simple Feeling of Being, a collection of Ken Wilber’s
inspirational, mystical and instructional passages drawn from his
publications, based on his experiences.)
Just my opinion only,
I think Eckhart Tolle may have been suffering alot and suddenly he 'let go' of trying to work out his problems. This results in a dissociation from thoughts which give rise to the experience of Presence.
To me, 'I AM' is an experience of Presence, it is just that only one aspect of Presence is experienced which is the 'all-pervading' aspect. The non-dual and emptiness aspect are not experienced.. Because non-dual is not realised (at I AM stage), a person may still use effort in an attempt to 'enter' the Presence. This is because, at the I AM stage, there is an erroneous concept that there is a relative world make up of thoughts AND there is an 'absolute source' that is watching it. The I AM stage person will make attempts to 'dissociated from the relative world' in order to enter the 'absolute source'.
However, at Non-dual (& further..) stage understanding, one have understood that the division into a relative world and an absolute source has NEVER occcured and cannot be... Thus no attempt/effort is truly required.
Well explained... thanks for the sharing.
Thusness has also said before the different six stages are related to degrees of effortlessness... even stage 4, 5 and 6 are about the degrees of effortlessness.
Thusness: 'For such an understanding and insight, Awareness should not only be only non-dual, all points of manifestation must also be effortless.'
'From stage 4 to 6 is all about non-dual, it is just the degree of effortlessness.'
'you must see that non-dual is already experience from stage 4 onwards and from there on, it is the degree of 'effortlessness' that counts.'
'in stage 5, it is already almost effortless in non-dual presence, but insight of emptiness and DO helps so much in 'effortless' of non-dual in sync view with experience'
--------
(9:52 PM) Thusness: for it is the tendency to
divide due to our inherent view that continously prevent us from
being effortless.
(9:53 PM) Thusness: it is also the replacement of this view totally by one that can completely use to articulate this non-dual experience that will non-dual experience effortless.
(9:54 PM) Thusness: However if a practitioner has not experienced non-dual to quite an extend, it is difficult to appreciate.
(9:55 PM) Thusness: That is how I put it at stage 6. Stage 6 is to enhance stage 5 non-dual present to make it completely effortless.
(9:55 PM) Thusness: But many will not understand and there is no point explaining.
I would like to add on to what Longchen said... about dissociation leading to the realisation of pure presence.
Self-inquiry, such as that done by Eckhart Tolle (in his enlightenment story), Ramana Maharshi, Thusness's Stage 1, and so on, when done will lead to a total dissociation from all thoughts and phenomena.
By questioning "Who am I", or "Before Birth, Who am I" and not answering verbally (the answers cannot be found there), but rather by dissociating from every single thought and phenomena including the thoughts of who we are as "neti, neti" or "not this, not this", we begin to sense Presence as the timeless, spaceless unmanifest that is prior to birth, prior to all thoughts and feelings. One realises one's nature as a primordial purity, that "I am not anything [object] in particular, but I am". That is why Eckhart said talked about entering into a void that is in himself, after his realisation -
‘I cannot live with myself any longer.’ This was the thought that kept
repeating itself in my mind. Then suddenly I became aware of what a
peculiar thought it was. ‘Am I one or two? If I cannot live with
myself, there must be two of me: the ‘I’ and the ‘self’ that ‘I’ cannot
live with.’ ‘Maybe,’ I thought, ‘only one of them is real.’
I was so stunned by this strange realization that my mind stopped. I
was fully conscious, but there were no more thoughts. Then I felt drawn
into what seemed like a vortex of energy. It was a slow movement at
first and then accelerated. I was gripped by an intense fear, and my
body started to shake. I heard the words ‘resist nothing,’ as if spoken
inside my chest. I could feel myself being sucked into a void. It felt
as if the void was inside myself rather than outside. Suddenly, there
was no more fear, and I let myself fall into that void. I have no
recollection of what happened after that.
This sort of self-inquiry is a primary technique in the Jnana path in Hinduism/Advaita Vedanta. The dissociation from all mental identification results in the realisation of pure consciousness prior to form and content. The pure subject that cannot be an object of observation. A person with such realisations will want to abide in that pure consciousness by dissociating from all forms and contents.
However, this is only the first half side of the story. In non-dual realisation, one realises that all form are the divine manifestation of pure emptiness. In fact, Form is Emptiness, and Emptiness is Form, they are not two, cannot be separated. Observer cannot be separated from the observed.
Eckhart Tolle, "...I understood the intense pressure of suffering that night must have forced my consicousness to withdraw from its identification with the unhappy and deeply fearful self, which is ultimately a fiction of the mind. This withdrawal must have been so complete that this false, suffering self immediately collapsed, just as if a plug had been pulled out of an inflatable toy. What was left then was my true nature as the ever-present I am: consciousnessness in its pure state prior to identification with form. Later I also learned to go into that inner timeless and deathless realm that I had originally perceived as a void and remain fully conscious. I dwelt in states of such indescribable bliss and sacredness that even the original experience I just described pales in comparison."
Hi everyone, thank you so much for all the responds. You must have spend lots of effort finding these for me @_@ im so touched.
i'll read them again and again and try to decipher them out.
once again, thanks !