any ex-christian here?
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I see.. which temple?
Temples : Singapore Buddhists lodge, hua leong, kuan chek tng, at the singapore expo buddhism conference -
I see. Chao du is not something that everyone can do -- only those who practice the Dharma and have the merits (gong de) can truly help chao du a person.
You can ask Buddhist monks to help, but you yourself can also help in attending pujas (such as during 7th month, the ullambana dharma pujas, a.k.a yu lan peng fa hui), give offerings to sangha etc, and dedicate merits to the deceased.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I see. Chao du is not something that everyone can do -- only those who practice the Dharma and have the merits (gong de) can truly help chao du a person.
You can ask Buddhist monks to help, but you yourself can also help in attending pujas (such as during 7th month, the ullambana dharma pujas, a.k.a yu lan peng fa hui), give offerings to sangha etc, and dedicate merits to the deceased.
sorry, I am blur to what you said in the post. I not a buddhist.
-
Hi Fantagf,
fyi
The Significance of Transference of Merits to the Departed
If you really want to honour and help your departed ones, then do some meritorious deeds in their name and transfer the merits to them.
According to Buddhism, good deeds or ‘acts of merit’ bring happiness to the doer both in this world and in the hereafter. Acts of merit are also believed to lead towards the final goal of everlasting happiness. The acts of merit can be performed through body, speech or mind. Every good deed produces ‘merit’ which accumulates to the ‘credit’ of the doer. Buddhism also teaches that the acquired merit can be transferred to others, it can be shared vicariously with others. In other words, the merit is ‘reversible’ and so can be shared with other persons. The persons who receive the merit can be either living or departed ones.
The method for transferring merits is quite simple. First some good deeds are performed. The doer of the good deeds has merely to wish that the merit he has gained accrues to someone in particular, or to all beings. This wish can be purely mental or it can accompanied by an expression of words.
This wish could be made with the beneficiary being aware of it. When the beneficiary is aware of the act or wish, then a mutual ‘rejoicing in’ merit takes place. Here the beneficiary becomes a participant of the original deed by associating himself with the deed done. If the beneficiary identifies himself with both the deed and the doer, he can sometimes acquire even greater merit than the original doer, either because his elation is greater or because his appreciation of the value of the deed is based on his understanding of Dhamma and, hence, more meritorious, Buddhist texts contain several stories of such instances.
The ‘joy of transference of merits’ can also take place with or without the knowledge of the doer of the meritorious act. All that is necessary is for the beneficiary to feel gladness in his heart when he becomes aware of the good deed. If he wishes, he can express his joy by saying ‘sadhu’ which means ‘well done’. What he is doing is creating a kind of mental or verbal applause. In order to share the good deed done by another, what is important is that there must be actual approval of the deed and joy arising in the beneficiary’s heart.
Even if he so desires, the doer of a good deed cannot prevent another’s ‘rejoicing in the merit’ because he has no power over another’s thoughts. According to the Buddha, in all actions, thought is what really matters. Transference is primarily an act of the mind.
To transfer merit does not mean that a person is deprived of the merit had originally acquired by his good deed. On the contrary, the very act of ‘transference’ is a good deed in itself and hence enhances the merit already earned.
Highest Gift to the Departed
The Buddha says that the greatest gift one can confer on one’s dead ancestors is to perform ‘acts of merit’ and to transfer these merits so acquired. He also says that those who give also receive the fruits of their deeds. The Buddha encouraged those who did good deeds such as offering alms to holy men, to transfer the merits which they received to their departed ones. Alms should be given in the name of the departed by recalling to mind such things as, ‘When he was alive, he gave me this wealth; he did this for me; he was my relative, my companion, etc. (Tirokuddha Sutta T Khuddakapatha). There is no use weeping, feeling sorry, lamenting and bewailing; such attitudes are of no consequence to the departed ones.
Transferring merits to the departed is based on the popular belief that on a person’s death, his ‘merits’ and ‘demerits’ are weighed against one another and his destiny determined, his actions determined whether he is to be reborn in a sphere of happiness or a realm of woe. The belief is that the departed one might have gone to the world of the departed spirits. The beings in these lower forms of existence cannot generate fresh merits, and have to live on with the merits which are earned from this world.
Those who did not harm others and who performed many good deeds during their life time, will certainly have the chance to be reborn in a happy place. Such persons do not required the help of living relatives. However, those who have no chance to be reborn in a happy abode are always waiting to receive merits from their living relatives to offset their deficiency and to enable them to be born in a happy abode.
Those who are reborn in an unfortunate spirit form could be released from their suffering condition through the transferring of merits to them by friends and relatives who do some meritorious deeds.
The origin and the significance of transference of merit is open to scholarly debate. Although this ancient custom still exists today in many Buddhists countries, very few Buddhists who follow this ancient custom have understood the meaning of transference of merits and the proper way to do that.
Some people are simply wasting time and money on meaningless ceremonies and performances in memory of departed ones. These people do not realise that it is impossible to help the departed ones simply by building big graveyards, tombs, paper-houses and other paraphernalia. Neither is it possible to help the departed by burning joss-sticks, joss-paper, etc.; nor is it possible to help the departed by slaughtering animals and offering them along with other kinds of food. Also one should not waste by burning things used by the departed ones on the assumption that the deceased persons would somehow benefit by the act, when such articles can in fact be distributed among the needy.
The only way to help the departed ones is to do some meritorious deeds in memory of them. The meritorious deeds include such acts as giving alms to others, building schools, temples, orphanages, libraries, hospitals, printing religious books for free distribution and similar charitable deeds etc.
The followers of the Buddha should act wisely and should not follow anything blindly. While others pray to god for the departed ones, Buddhists radiate their loving-kindness directly to them. By doing meritorious deeds, they can transfer the merits to their beloved ones for their well-being. This is the best way of remembering and giving real honour to and perpetuating the names of the departed ones. In their state of happiness, the departed ones will reciprocate their blessings on their living relatives. It is, therefore, the duty of relatives to remember their departed ones by transferring merits and by radiating loving-kindness directly to them. -
Yup good article by Isis. I think during 7th month, you can check which Buddhist monastery offer Ullambana dharma puja. (yu lan peng fa hui)
Sorry didn't reply this thread again, was so busy for project and sch work the last week that I sleep 2-4 hours each day on average that I had hardly any time for anything else.
Happy Chinese New Year, btw.
-
Hi Fantagf
The mere fact that you left your Christian community despite peer pressure is indeed admirable. You may not be a Buddhist believer just yet, but in time, I sincerely hope you will. As you read more about Buddhism, it's really a philosophy for life that embodies loving kindness, which ultimately will make you a happier person (and accept things as they are).
Talking about "peer pressure", I can understand that especially in a working environment where there are always "inner circles" among the Christian colleagues, manipulating political power among colleagues and getting connected to those in higher places to achieve whatever hidden agenda they might habour. Of course, there are also good Christian friends. But from my personal perspective, I certainly think Buddhists have a more magnanimous heart than that of our Christian friends. Christians seem to be able to expend however much effort, energy and time just so to ultimately convert non-Christians into one of their believers. This is especially the case when that someone has encountered setbacks in life or when they are simply in a vulnerable state in life. Subconsciously, they are unaware to see the good nature in other non-Christian believers. Having said that, we Buddhists are more tolerant of their religion than they to ours. Well, I shan't comment more than what I already have, i only wish to accumulate more good merits.........
p.s. Wishing All a Happy Chinese New year and Good Health!
-
Originally posted by Verdandis:
Hi Fantagf
The mere fact that you left your Christian community despite peer pressure is indeed admirable. You may not be a Buddhist believer just yet, but in time, I sincerely hope you will. As you read more about Buddhism, it's really a philosophy for life that embodies loving kindness, which ultimately will make you a happier person (and accept things as they are).
Talking about "peer pressure", I can understand that especially in a working environment where there are always "inner circles" among the Christian colleagues, manipulating political power among colleagues and getting connected to those in higher places to achieve whatever hidden agenda they might habour. Of course, there are also good Christian friends. But from my personal perspective, I certainly think Buddhists have a more magnanimous heart than that of our Christian friends. Christians seem to be able to expend however much effort, energy and time just so to ultimately convert non-Christians into one of their believers. This is especially the case when that someone has encountered setbacks in life or when they are simply in a vulnerable state in life. Subconsciously, they are unaware to see the good nature in other non-Christian believers. Having said that, we Buddhists are more tolerant of their religion than they to ours. Well, I shan't comment more than what I already have, i only wish to accumulate more good merits.........
p.s. Wishing All a Happy Chinese New year and Good Health!
Thanks for your words, appreciate it. WEll said.
It took me very long to pluck up courage to leave christianity.
I agree with this ---> But from my personal perspective, I certainly think Buddhists have a more magnanimous heart than that of our Christian friends. Christians seem to be able to expend however much effort, energy and time just so to ultimately convert non-Christians into one of their believers. This is especially the case when that someone has encountered setbacks in life or when they are simply in a vulnerable state in life. Subconsciously, they are unaware to see the good nature in other non-Christian believers. Having said that, we Buddhists are more tolerant of their religion than they to ours.
I meet more kind buddhists than kind christians. Christians though are taught not to judge but they are the ones among so many religions here to judge first and judge most. Base on my experience with them, most are hypocrites and show no love to people though the very essence of christianity is love. They know I left church and when they see me they avoid me, sad! I was abused, betrayed, ill treated by christians. Christians broke my rice bowls.
True that they go for people who are vulnerable, suffering health problems. My neighbour and husband just converted because her husband is terminally sick. She is not happy after her conversion and complained to me about what happen.
Glad I left and I am a happier person spiritually now.
-
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Thanks for your words, appreciate it. WEll said.
It took me very long to pluck up courage to leave christianity.
I agree with this ---> But from my personal perspective, I certainly think Buddhists have a more magnanimous heart than that of our Christian friends. Christians seem to be able to expend however much effort, energy and time just so to ultimately convert non-Christians into one of their believers. This is especially the case when that someone has encountered setbacks in life or when they are simply in a vulnerable state in life. Subconsciously, they are unaware to see the good nature in other non-Christian believers. Having said that, we Buddhists are more tolerant of their religion than they to ours.
I meet more kind buddhists than kind christians. Christians though are taught not to judge but they are the ones among so many religions here to judge first and judge most. Base on my experience with them, most are hypocrites and show no love to people though the very essence of christianity is love. They know I left church and when they see me they avoid me, sad! I was abused, betrayed, ill treated by christians. Christians broke my rice bowls.
True that they go for people who are vulnerable, suffering health problems. My neighbour and husband just converted because her husband is terminally sick. She is not happy after her conversion and complained to me about what happen.
Glad I left and I am a happier person spiritually now.
Watch out for Buddhists, they use reverse pyschology one...
-
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just to add to the topic since I have seen so many redundant replies:
Any ex-human here?
Wah kao, this thread is really getting out of hand:It's about ex-christians, not buddhist rituals for the dead and departed.
Since the title is oxymoronic: I really must ask whether can buddhists be ex-human?
-
I was from a missionary school and was pressured into partcipating in Christian activities that I could never relate to. Things only changed after I started working and left my Christian acquaintances behind. I found out about Buddhism on my own and have been a staunch believer for many years. It was in the Buddhist teachings that I found solace and guidance and adhering to the 5 precepts has been my way of life.
My family members, both immediate and extended are Christians. My brother-in-law even told his daughter that her aunt (me) is a devil-worshipper as i visit temples. It doesn't shaken my belief and i feel sorry that the 8 year old 's mind will be shaped wrongly.
We should respect other people's beliefs. It is the lack of respect and ignorance that is causing rifts between religions and hurting innocent lives.
On 15 Mar 09, I'll finally be able to take my beliefs further by participating in a formal ceremony http://www.kmspks.org/events/refuge.htm and be able to call myself a true Buddhist.
-
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Wah kao, this thread is really getting out of hand:It's about ex-christians, not buddhist rituals for the dead and departed.
Since the title is oxymoronic: I really must ask whether can buddhists be ex-human?
Caaannn. I may be anything in my infinite past lives from snakes to tigers to rats to birds or somthing similar to Herzog_Zwei....I'm human for now. Next lives, i dunno, hopefully still human. Otherwise, I'll end up as ex-human.
Anyway so glad to see that you are still alive and kicking, as a human that is.
-
Originally posted by purplejade:
I was from a missionary school and was pressured into partcipating in Christian activities that I could never relate to. Things only changed after I started working and left my Christian acquaintances behind. I found out about Buddhism on my own and have been a staunch believer for many years. It was in the Buddhist teachings that I found solace and guidance and adhering to the 5 precepts has been my way of life.
My family members, both immediate and extended are Christians. My brother-in-law even told his daughter that her aunt (me) is a devil-worshipper as i visit temples. It doesn't shaken my belief and i feel sorry that the 8 year old 's mind will be shaped wrongly.
We should respect other people's beliefs. It is the lack of respect and ignorance that is causing rifts between religions and hurting innocent lives.
On 15 Mar 09, I'll finally be able to take my beliefs further by participating in a formal ceremony http://www.kmspks.org/events/refuge.htm and be able to call myself a true Buddhist.
Congrats ! Amituofo.
-
Originally posted by cycle:
Caaannn. I may be anything in my infinite past lives from snakes to tigers to rats to birds or somthing similar to Herzog_Zwei....I'm human for now. Next lives, i dunno, hopefully still human. Otherwise, I'll end up as ex-human.
Anyway so glad to see that you are still alive and kicking, as a human that is.
How the hell do you take refuge in the triple gems as an animal? Animals got sangha one meh? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
How the hell do you take refuge in the triple gems as an animal? Animals got sangha one meh?
Hah?Sorry my English is super lousy as everyone can see, so I dunno why u ask such strange questions to my post... so strange that for a moment I really thought i was responsible for leading you to think in this way; I must admit you are the one very good in reverse pyschology...
Buddhists in this life may not always born as humans or as Buddhists in their past lives, thus: ex-animal, ex-ghosts, ex-gods ; animals in this life may be humans in their past lives, thus: ex-human.
When you are a animal or whatever, you still can take refuge in the Triple Gems once your conditions are ripen to be reborn in the human realm. There are also indeed sanga( human, lah..) who is compassionate enough to give refuge rituals to non- human ie to sentients beings in all realms.
Oh, if really want to carry on , there are also humans that do not behave as human should, thus: can considered as ex-human too. I wonder which you belong to? need the NASA scientists to figure this one out.
-
Originally posted by cycle:
Hah?Sorry my English is super lousy as everyone can see, so I dunno why u ask such strange questions to my post... so strange that for a moment I really thought i was responsible for leading you to think in this way; I must admit you are the one very good in reverse pyschology...
Buddhists in this life may not always born as humans or as Buddhists in their past lives, thus: ex-animal, ex-ghosts, ex-gods ; animals in this life may be humans in their past lives, thus: ex-human.
When you are a animal or whatever, you still can take refuge in the Triple Gems once your conditions are ripen to be reborn in the human realm. There are also indeed sanga( human, lah..) who is compassionate enough to give refuge rituals to non- human ie to sentients beings in all realms.
Oh, if really want to carry on , there are also humans that do not behave as human should, thus: can considered as ex-human too. I wonder which you belong to? need the NASA scientists to figure this one out.
Just to simplify the terms:In the present, there is no Buddhist ex-humans just as there are no Buddhist-ex-Christians. You are Buddhist if you believe in Buddhism and you are Christian if you believe in Christianity. Just like the koan on asking if a dog has Buddha nature.
-
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just to simplify the terms:In the present, there is no Buddhist ex-humans just as there are no Buddhist-ex-Christians. You are Buddhist if you believe in Buddhism and you are Christian if you believe in Christianity. Just like the koan on asking if a dog has Buddha nature.
oic... also true.Anyway, I think we are also out of topic...or are we back to the topic? my apologies to TS.
-
Originally posted by cycle:
oic... also true.Anyway, I think we are also out of topic...or are we back to the topic? my apologies to TS.
Nope, just presenting a fallancy on the topic nature. Maybe you are thinking too hard and I am presenting in a very cryptic fashion. How did the thread manage to deviate to the Udumbara festival is another question though. -
Originally posted by purplejade:
I was from a missionary school and was pressured into partcipating in Christian activities that I could never relate to. Things only changed after I started working and left my Christian acquaintances behind. I found out about Buddhism on my own and have been a staunch believer for many years. It was in the Buddhist teachings that I found solace and guidance and adhering to the 5 precepts has been my way of life.
My family members, both immediate and extended are Christians. My brother-in-law even told his daughter that her aunt (me) is a devil-worshipper as i visit temples. It doesn't shaken my belief and i feel sorry that the 8 year old 's mind will be shaped wrongly.
We should respect other people's beliefs. It is the lack of respect and ignorance that is causing rifts between religions and hurting innocent lives.
On 15 Mar 09, I'll finally be able to take my beliefs further by participating in a formal ceremony http://www.kmspks.org/events/refuge.htm and be able to call myself a true Buddhist.
Congrats on joining the club. ;)
-
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Thanks for you open mind, appreciate it. My ex churchmates and christian friends avoid me like a plague since the day they know I gave up my faith.wa..
-
Fantagf, Try do some merits , and pass it to the beings that disturb you. You can also request the monks to visit your house to have some Paramita chanting. If you can do Metta it's even better (but this needs instruction from learned teachers). There are ways to do merits properly, but all this involve our mental state. Some form of understanding in Kamma-Vipaka (cause-effect) , and the accompanying mental states are important in Merits-making as they would potentiate the Kamma. In Thai/Burmese/Sri Lanka customs, there is a recitation for Devas to participate in Merits. you could make a request from a Deva to help you also, it's not selfish act, but something to help you get through obstacles in life. But ultimately, Kamma is the most important thing as no Brahmas, devas or beings can alter one's destiny , except himself. Which means, at the end of the day, we have to come to terms with our own Kamma. and this puts the importance of Cultivation of Virtues in all of us. Hope this helps.
-
To add: Don't worry too much for your late mother. worry is never a good mental state anyway. Do what you can to help , including passing of merits to her, and always recall her everytime you do good deeds. Metta
-
Originally posted by soul2soul:
To add:
Don’t worry too much for your late mother. worry is never a good mental state anyway. Do what you can to help , including passing of merits to her, and always recall her everytime you do good deeds.
Metta
Wrong, worry can be an aide in your own practice if you believe. The trick is taking the middle path. Letting your worries be a strident guide in your behaviour and yet not let it overwhelm you. -
I was one of ex-christian too.(for 20 years) So you can guess how old I am now. :P
-
I was an ex-christian, but I am not now a buddhist.
-
Originally posted by S.gal83:
I was an ex-christian, but I am not now a buddhist.
If I am ex-every possible religion, then I should be ex-human.