To remain or abide as awareness does not mean we get into some state called “awareness” and then find a way to remain in that state. To remain as awareness is to simply recognize that all states and experiences are the continuous flow of awareness.
Many like to talk about the Natural State and direct path. I am a non-sectarian and I do not believe in monopoly over truth but still I see Buddhism's Dependent Origination most profound. Over the years, I have enough conversations, discussions and mail correspondences. It has come to a point that I retract from all these and resort to being a “”PasserBy” :-). My advice to those attempting to engage in the direct path is not to take it as a short cut as in one of my reply to AEN:
Hi AEN,
I do not usually reply people about spiritual stuff but I sense the confusion in Mikael's mail to you.It is advisable to correctly point out to him that there is no short cut to direct path.
In the most direct path, Awareness is already and always at rest. In the most direct path, whatever manifests is Awareness; there is no "in Awareness" and there is no such thing as going deeper in Awareness or resting in Awareness. Anything "going deeper" or "resting" is nothing direct. Nothing more than the illusionary appearances of 'hierarchy' caused by the inherent and dualistic tendency of understanding things. It is more 'gradual' than 'direct'. Therefore have the right view first before we talk too much about the direct path so that we do not fall into such views. Next clearly understand the cause that blinds us then have direct authentication of our pristine nature so that we will not be misled.By the way, non-discrimination does not deny us from clear discernment. An enlightenment person is not one that cannot differentiate 'left' from 'right'. :-)
When we say 'rest in the natural state', we must not postulate
as if there is 'state' where the mind can access and rest. There is no
such state. There is no entry and exit point nor is there a behind
background for us to rest our mind. We are talking about a direct
realization of our luminous yet empty nature. It defies all
subject-object and inherent view. If we want to bypass 'this step of
firm establishment of right view', just make sure we are able to
correctly understand our pristine nature when glimpses of our nature
dawn; it is easily distorted and misinterpreted and that is why
dependent origination is taught.
Dependent Origination
demolishes hierarchy; brings the absolute to the same level as the
transience. See the absolute as nothing more special than an arising
thought ,a subsiding sound, a passing scent. It opens up all sense doors and see all
moments, any time and anywhere as entry point to our Buddha Nature.
It flattens the 3 states of waking, sleeping and dreaming and see movement
and stillness as one.
And
That is what 'Natural
State', 'No Mind' and 'One Taste' are about. We do not on one hand talk
about natural state, naked awareness and on the other hand talk about a
resting state or access to a higher samadhi. There is no resting place
and no deeper samadhi to access. All states are equally pure, pristine
and empty, therefore no preference, no movement and nothing gain. Such
is the direct path, anything other than that is 'gradual'. :-)
I see.. Thanks for the sharing :)
Hmmm....it is often said that there is sudden realisation then gradual practice. Sudden realisation of what? Of awareness, truth, god, or whatever you might call it. Gradual practice of what? Of always being with the awareness or whatever you might call it. If there is no being in awareness, wouldn't sudden realisation be complete in itself? Wouldn't gradual practice be unnecessary?
It is also often said that both Zen Master Zhaozhou and Dogen had realisations very early but were not satisfied and went about visiting masters and deepening their realisations. If it is really so, that there is no deepening, then what were they deepening since they already had realisations?
If it is really that Awareness is already and always at rest, then there would be nothing to do. Why are they always doing something?
_(|)_
Originally posted by Emanrohe:Hmmm....it is often said that there is sudden realisation then gradual practice. Sudden realisation of what? Of awareness, truth, god, or whatever you might call it. Gradual practice of what? Of always being with the awareness or whatever you might call it. If there is no being in awareness, wouldn't sudden realisation be complete in itself? Wouldn't gradual practice be unnecessary?
It is also often said that both Zen Master Zhaozhou and Dogen had realisations very early but were not satisfied and went about visiting masters and deepening their realisations. If it is really so, that there is no deepening, then what were they deepening since they already had realisations?
If it is really that Awareness is already and always at rest, then there would be nothing to do. Why are they always doing something?
_(|)_
Yes Emanrohe,
That is precisely the question asked by Dogen that “if our Buddha Nature is already perfect, why practice?” This question continues to bother him even after the initial glimpse and that led him to China in search for the answer that eventually awaken his wisdom into the non-dual nature of Awareness.
Therefore we must understand in Zen tradition, different koans were meant for different purposes. The experience derived from the koan “before birth who are you?” only allows an initial glimpse of our nature. It is not the same as the Hakuin’s koan of “what is the sound of one hand clapping?” The five categories of koan in Zen ranges from hosshin that give practitioner the first glimpse of ultimate reality to five-ranks that aims to awaken practitioner the spontaneous unity of relative and absolute (non-duality). Only through thorough realization of the non-dual nature (spontaneous unity of relative and absolute) of Awareness can we then understand why there is no split between subject and object as well as seeing the oneness of realization and development. Therefore the practice of natural state is for those that have already awaken to their non-dual nature, not just an initial glimpse of Awareness. The difference must be clearly understood. It is not for anyone and it is advisable that we refrain from talking too much about the natural state. The 'natural' way is in fact the most challenging path, there is no short cut.
On the other hand, the gradual path of practice is a systematic way of taking us step by step until we eventually experienced the full non-dual and non-local nature of pristine awareness. One way is by first firmly establishing the right view of anatta (non-dual) and dependent origination and practice vipassana or bare attention to authenticate our experience with the right view. The gradual paths are equally precious, that is the point I want to convey.
Lastly there is a difference between understanding Buddha Nature and God. Not to let our initial glimpse of pristine awareness overwhelmed us. :-)
http://www.integrativearts.com/blog/?p=236
by John May 6th, 2009
To remain or abide as awareness does not mean we get into some state called “awareness” and then find a way to remain in that state. To remain as awareness is to simply recognize that all states and experiences are the continuous flow of awareness.
More by John Astin:
by John July 22nd, 2009
One hears among people involved with different awareness teachings and practices, the oftentimes frustrating and painful story of having recognized the presence of awareness and then feeling like that recognition has somehow slipped away. There then begins the search to get that recognition back, to have the sense of awareness being more stable, more enduring, more abiding. This can become one of the most painful searches in life, in large part because the recognition of oneself as awareness is such a liberating, and deeply satisfying experience. It is the true coming home. And we know it. We’ve glimpsed the heaven we always longed for, the peace, the relief, we always craved. And now it is (apparently) gone. So the pain of that, the pain of leaving heaven can be quite intense.
One answer we hear to such questions is that awareness is always present, otherwise there could be no perceptions. We are invited to examine our own experience and see if awareness isn’t always right here as the basis of each and every experience, each and every perceptual appearance. This is a powerful and very true pointer, to see that no matter what the perceptual objects are that appear in the sky of awareness, awareness is present to them all, to see that whether clear or stormy weather is arising, the sky remains the sky.
But true as this is, what frequently happens is that when particularly disturbing states appear, it seems as if the peace of this ever-present awareness is difficult to access, that it is somehow far, far away, if present at all. And so, one then (understandably) seeks to return to it, find once again, the presence of awareness. But in this whole process, awareness is really being applied as a kind of antidote to suffering. That is, should some disturbing or painful state appear, one attempts to return to awareness, notice that it never left, feel the peace of it, the freedom of it, the ease of it. I’m sure you know the drill. While it brings some relief, at a certain point, the sense of back and forth becomes quite tiresome, frustrating and painful.
But there is another way, another way to have one’s recognition of awareness grow more stable, more enduring, more abiding. And that is, to simply recognize that every perception, whether described as desirable or undesirable, pleasurable or painful, IS none other than awareness. Awareness is not some thing watching some other thing, not a “subject” observing happy or sad, peaceful or disturbing “objects.” Perceptions are ultimately inseparable from awareness. Awareness doesn’t simply watch or witness what appears to it. The sky doesn’t merely watch the clouds passing by. The sky pervades the clouds. Awareness permeates experience, it saturates perception. It IS perception. That which perceives is inseparable from what it perceives. They are not two.
There is not disturbance or discomfort on the one hand and the ever-present peace of awareness on the other. Awareness is inseparable from disturbing mind states. If you want to know what awareness, it is quite simple. It is whatever is being perceived, just now. That makes it rather simple, doesn’t it? And as this begins to dawn in our direct experience, we see that the stability of awareness is to be found by recognizing it is present in and as each perception. Then, there is indeed, no possibility of ever losing it. Awareness appears as the perception we call “recognizing awareness”. And it appears as the perception we call “non-recognition.”
Awareness is the seamless flow of perception for really there are not any discrete perceptions. There is no perceivable boundary line between one perception and the next, even though our descriptions of phenomena would suggest otherwise. There is just a seamless, uninterrupted flow of perception, the river of ever-present awareness, impossible to stop, impossible to locate, impossible to contain, impossible to describe, and impossible to be apart from for “we” are simply another perception, the river of awareness flowing as us.
thank you
Hi guys,
I'm enjoying the discussion.
But there is another way, another way to have one’s recognition of awareness grow more stable, more enduring, more abiding. And that is, to simply recognize that every perception, whether described as desirable or undesirable, pleasurable or painful, IS none other than awareness. Awareness is not some thing watching some other thing, not a “subject” observing happy or sad, peaceful or disturbing “objects.” Perceptions are ultimately inseparable from awareness. Awareness doesn’t simply watch or witness what appears to it. The sky doesn’t merely watch the clouds passing by. The sky pervades the clouds. Awareness permeates experience, it saturates perception. It IS perception. That which perceives is inseparable from what it perceives. They are not two.
I really like this quote because it shows that all is One, when one sees it as the One.
Mind is always cutting up reality into little pieces so it can understand and grasp these pieces or concepts.
But when the understanding dawns that the mind is just being the mind and this can be seen, then it can be accepted for what it is. But in my own experience, it has to be seen for what it is.
Mind has to be recognized for what it is, for what it does, but I'm talking about the thinking mind of course.
Well above and beyond and within this thinking mind is Mind, or universal mind, which is our true nature.
Thinking mind exists within the vastness of Mind, which is can be pointed to as "all that is".
Awareness is a funny word.
It's so easy to see awareness since this is what I am and what is present now allowing this post to be known, to be seen, to be understood.
And yet awareness is a total mystery to me, i have no idea whatsoever what it is. It almost appears to be a miracle.
I am a miracle.
You are a miracle.
An unknowable miracle which is an unknowable person in an unknowable universe.
Thanks JonLS for the sharing :) The universe is indeed a miracle.
Far from seeing the exotic, the
marvelous, as the Way, Zen says that even something as mundane as
washing the dishes is the Way: the direction to go in practice, the way
to practice, and even the goal of practice itself. A monk came to
Joshu’s temple and asked, “I am new here, could you please tell me what
the essence of your teaching might be?” “Have you eaten?” asked Joshu.
“Yes.” replied the monk. “Then go and wash your dishes.”
Why is this? Why does Zen repudiate the magical and extol the mundane, everyday life? A clue to the answer to this question lies in another saying, this time by a famous Zen layman, P’ang, who lived more or less at the same time as Joshu. He said, “My miraculous power and magical ability: drawing water and chopping wood.” In other words the mundane world is already miraculous and magical. The wonder is not that people walk on water, it is that we walk at all. Speaking in tongues is not marvelous; saying “Good morning!” and “Good afternoon!” is wherein the miracle lies.
http://www.kiloby.com/writings.php?offset=0&writingid=105
Scott Kiloby:
It is liberating to recognize that, whatever this non-conceptual, timeless awareness is, that is what you are. But once it is recognized fully and completely that this space is what you are, and that this is what the word “spirit” is pointing to, there is no need to continuously return to a contentless sense of being. To return again and again to it is to treat it as a temporary experience, something to get to, return to, or rest in. Again, although that may be helpful in recognizing this contentless awareness, don’t get caught in the repetitious trap of trying to reach or maintain or recognize or know yourself as this contentless space. By making it into an experience or continuously recognizing it, the mind creates a pattern of wanting to return to it and to avoid content. That’s a trap. Don’t fall for the trap that contentless awareness is non-duality. It isn’t. Don’t deny content. In the spiritual search, the desire to recognize pure awareness (i.e., spirit) comes from an identity crisis. You don't know who or what you are. In not knowing what you are, the storm of phenomena (thoughts, feelings, states, and experiences) torture and overwhelm you. In recognizing that you are this vast, spacious awareness, phenomena no longer torture you. Phenomena are seen to be the spontaneous and dynamic energy of awareness itself.
Once there is a knowing that what you are, in the deepest sense, is this contentless awareness, the content is enjoyed. It flows naturally. Once you know that your true identity is the ocean, let the waves play. Let them tumble over each other. Get soaking wet in the play of life. Enjoy the difference between the waves. Each one is unique. You, the individual body, mind, and personality, are none other than the awareness. Enjoy your uniqueness. I'm not referring to ego. Ego is that contracted energy, that time-bound, thought-based story that fixates in self-centered thinking. Once awareness is recognized as your real identity, the ego is seen as a phantom. What I'm referring to here is the vast freedom inherent in awareness and the fact that every form is a perfect, inseparable, unique expression of that awareness. That means every form, including the individual life form that appears in that body. The unique you that is inseparable from the source. Enjoy it all!
Greg Goode: once experience doesn't seem divided and once it doesn't seem like there is anything other than consciousness, then the notion of consciousness itself will gently and peacefully dissolve
thanks for the sharing
A further post I wrote to Jamber when he asked me about my practice (initially I told him my practice is deteriorating), slightly edited:
Yes, I have been so busy these days working whole day and night and midnights [and having an unhealthy lifestyle of sleeping late as well] ... that I stopped my meditation routine or at least meditated less time per week. I must get back to it.
I myself get sometimes get trapped in concepts of 'losing it' or 'gaining it' or 'practice becoming better' or 'worse' but I guess ultimately even the notion of that is falsely mistaking the nature of mind as a state and mistaking it as a state we can lose or gain. Thus making a problem out of sometimes apparently getting lost in thoughts, feelings, etc... the challenge is not to get rid of these thoughts or feelings but to integrate our recognition of the presence of our basic state in the midst of these experiences.
Our basic awakeness appears to become strong or apparent when thought subsides.... but it is not that awareness has appeared, because awareness does not appear nor disappear -- our thoughts does (or apparently)... awareness is just timeless without start, end, or movement. Neither does our basic awakeness disappear when we are experiencing many thoughts -- for thoughts are simply the dynamic expression of mind's knowing (luminous) and empty nature... Even within the midst of the chaos of thoughts we can get in touch with the sky like nature of mind that encompasses but isn't limited by the clouds... if we simply let go of our pinpointed fixation on any particular thoughts and objects and simply rest as such, even in the midst of heavy dark clouds we find a sense of freedom and equanimity. We can't lose our mind's nature at any moment...
Even if we apparently lost mindfulness or recognition.... there's always the opportunity to recognise this again no matter what we are experiencing... it is not a future state (for any states we experience, that's temporary) to be achieved, not an altered state, but what is already spontaneously perfected in this moment and as whatever this moment of expression takes. It absolutely isn't limited or obstructed by anything or any thoughts we are experiencing...
Just my 2 cents... sometimes it's also good to remind myself that talking is easy but of course it's not the words or concepts that are important. Sometimes it's good to be interested in the space in which all these thoughts and words appear... while at the same time not rejecting any of these experiences.
There's truly nothing to do to be what we already are. Whatever we do or not do (including 'non-doing') is irrelevant to what already is. We can't even escape from it even if we wanted to... we can't seek or escape from what is witnessing the seeking and escaping.
Great post by Jamber (hope Jamber doesn't mind me posting here):
as i started reading, analyzing and meditating on mind/awareness/emptiness.. etc, it seems to me that with how our conceptual mind functions, we're all crazy or insane to certain extent, not unlike those ppl in mental institues who "hear voices in their head".
in our daily lives for every single action and things we do, we are to a certain extent believing and hearing "voices in our head" to tell us and make us do and decide everything in our lives. our fav color, food, what is right/wrong, what to do next, i'm so bored now what's the next exciting thing to do.. etc. they may not be substantial voices we hear but still its something (we call habits, inclinations.. etc) that we totally "believe" and so letting them control all our actions in life that goes on and on which feels like being swept along helplessly by the wave of karma. a person life can just be controlled by unquestioningly accepting and believing these "voices in our head" without wisdom, which can of course ends up in good or bad circumstances, depending on the situations.
the more subtle "voices" are like our instincts and habits that we probably don't even notice like habitual shaking of legs, disgusted by uncleaniness/2nd hand smoke, afinity to fav colors.. etc. the more coarse "voices" are our intellectual/conceptual thoughts that goes on in our head - should i do this or that, right or wrong, how-to, why-this-not-that, problem-solving during work.. etc.
only difference between "normal" and "insane" ppl is that "normal" ppl do have ability to discern whether these "voices" are socially appropriate, whereas "insane" ppl's life are totally dominated by these "voices". like when anger arises, "normal" ppl like us can have a little space to discern should we "believe" the anger and carry out the resultant actions or "disbelieve" the anger and let its energy liberate by itself but "insane" ppl will just helplessly carry out the anger into physical actions unquestioningly - like outburst, causing physical hurt, murder.. etc. but still "normal" ppl can still momentarily falls into "insanity" by believing in that anger and ends up doing so-called "stupid things that will be regretted later". so how much space we have to discern these and not to be drowned out is really our practice of mindfulness and the little wisdom we gain from the practice that enables us to ride these karmic waves instead of being drowned. i'm still "trapping water" trying to stay afloat on a daily basis :-)
and while all these "voices" are going on in our immediate experience, "believing" in them fully and carrying out the resultant actions is like believing in their inherent existence and being swept away helplessly by the karmic waves, while "seeing through" them is like realizing their empty but luminous nature and hence can experience but not be affected by them. and the paradox is through analysis, there is no solid self that experiences all these. but due to ignorance, our deluded belief in a self sort of creates this energy that solidify this self and the various experiences, hence causing all the sufferings that follows. and while all these empty luminous experiences are going on, empty basic awareness are experiencing all these impartially. but ignorance prevents recognising the empty awareness that is not a "thing" or "self", and results in solidifying the experiecning awareness (subject) as a "self" and the experiences (object) as "others".
actually not sure why i wrote all these but it is sort of prompted by your reply on basic awareness :-)
happy national day my friend!
.........
my reply:
Thanks for the sharing... great reply and you put it very well! The challenge indeed is in sustaining this mindfulness which
discerns 'the voice' and hence prevents us from being lost in them...
and yet isn't a subject separated from objects. Just pure observation
without observer as Guru Padmasambhava said.
Happy national day :)
my appreciation AEN for sharing our discussions.
i came across this article today that i thought was quite interesting to share for all. it talks about the fresh child-like quality of the mind that should be cultivated. especially intriguing was the scientific observation of zen awareness meditation as compared to some other states of mind. my takeaway from the article was appreciating the importance of the dynamics of a fresh, mindful, fully aware and non-discriminating mind, as compared to some mis-conceptions people sometimes has on Buddhist meditation as being so-called "emptiness" spaced-out trance kinda state.
http://integral-options.blogspot.com/2009/08/dharma-quote-what-are-some-of-positive.html
REFLECTIONS ON A MOUNTAIN LAKE
Teachings on Practical Buddhism
Dharma Quote of the Week
Question: What are some of the positive qualities of a childlike mind?
Tenzin Palmo: An example of a childlike quality is when children are in the midst of intense grief and then someone gives them a lollipop. The tears disappear and they giggle and smile. They have completely forgotten that a few minutes ago they had been grief-stricken. A childlike quality of the mind really means a mind which is fresh, which sees things as if for the first time.
Once someone did a test on meditators'...brainwaves. They tested someone who was doing a formal Hindu style meditation and a Zen master. This was to find out what the difference was, because they both said they were meditating, but each was doing a very different kind of meditation. They also tested a non-meditator. Every three minutes, they made a sudden loud noise. It was regular. The first person they tested was the one who didn't know how to meditate. The first time this person heard the loud noise, he became very agitated. The second time he was less agitated. The third time there was some vague agitation, and then the fourth time he more or less ignored it. The person doing the Hindu meditation didn't react to the noise at all. He didn't hear it. When the person doing the Zen meditation heard the noise, the mind went outwards, noted the noise and then went back in. The next time, the mind noted the noise and went back in. His reaction was unchanged. Each time, the mind noted the noise and went back in.
That tells us a lot about the quality of mind we are talking about. This is a mind which responds to something with attention and then returns to its own natural state. It doesn't elaborate on it, doesn't get caught up in it, doesn't get excited about it. It just notes that this is what is happening. Every time it happens, it notes it. It doesn't get blasé. It doesn't become conditioned. In this way, it is like a child's mind. When something interesting happens, it will note it and then let it go and move onto the next thing. This is what is meant by a childlike mind. It sees everything as if for the first time. It doesn't have this whole backlog of preconditioned ideas about things. You see a glass and you see it as it is, rather than seeing all the other glasses you have seen in your life, together with your ideas and theories about glasses and whether you like glasses in this or that shape, or the kind of glass you drank out of yesterday. We are talking about a mind which sees the thing freshly in the moment. That's the quality we are aiming for. We lose this as we become adults. We are trying to reproduce this fresh mind, which sees things without all this conditioning. But we do not want a mind which is swept away by its emotions.
--from Reflections on a Mountain Lake: Teachings on Practical Buddhism by Venerable Tenzin Palmo, published by Snow Lion Publications
Nice sharing, thanks Jamber :)
If anyone is very keen to meet up with Thusness, me and a few others, msg me.