Soka buddhism
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Originally posted by Callan:
And how would yyy explain this relation to soka gakkai or even nichiren shu? I believe this would be an assumption on his part. I understand Budai to be part of Zen Buddhism with some relation to taoism or even I kuan Dao. Relation to Nichiren Shoshu or Soka Gakkai however is non-existence.
Zen Buddhism does not worship deities.
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Originally posted by Callan:
And how would yyy explain this relation to soka gakkai or even nichiren shu? I believe this would be an assumption on his part. I understand Budai to be part of Zen Buddhism with some relation to taoism or even I kuan Dao. Relation to Nichiren Shoshu or Soka Gakkai however is non-existence.
Not my problem, youyayu posted the pic and I explain what it was. For what reason is it doing in this thread, I have no mother farking idea. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Zen Buddhism does not worship deities.
Well, I never said anything about worshiping. Budai is quoted in many Stories in Zen Buddhism.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Not my problem, youyayu posted the pic and I explain what it was. For what reason is it doing in this thread, I have no mother farking idea.yyy= youyayu, it is not a typo.
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Originally posted by Callan:
Well, I never said anything about worshiping. Budai is quoted in many Stories in Zen Buddhism.
Yeah. I wasn't aware that Budai became a God of Fortune in Japan. It seems to belong to those folklore cultures.
"INTRODUCTION. The Shichifukujin 七�神 are an eclectic group of deities from Japan, India, and China. Only one is native to Japan (Ebisu) and Japan's indigenous Shinto tradition. Three are from the Hindu-Buddhist pantheon of India (Daikokuten, Bishamonten, and Benzaiten) and three from Chinese Taoist-Buddhist traditions (Hotei, Juroujin, and Fukurokuju). In Japan, they travel together on their treasure ship (takara bune �船) and dispense happiness to believers. Each deity existed independently before Japan's "artificial" creation of the group in the 17th century. Images of the seven appear with great frequency in modern Japan, and the most common ordering is: Ebisu, Daikoku, Benzai, Hotei, Fukurokuju, Juroujin, Bishamonten. Each deity is presented briefly below. Click any deity name for full textual reviews & numerous photos. Click here for photo montage."
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Just to make a correction, the deity in the photograph is not Budai (Jpn: Hotei) but Daikokuten (大黒天). Hotei would be the Chinese-style Maitreya bodhisattva (aka "Laughing Buddha"). That pic, by the way, looks like the one enshrined in Kiyomizu Temple here in Kyoto.
In Nichiren-shu style Butsudans (fo tan 佛壇, that's what the "black cabinet" is, and is NOT limited to just Nichiren Shoshu or Soka Gakkai, but used in all Buddhist traditions in Japan), Daikokuten and Guizimu (鬼å�æ¯�) are also enshrined next to the Omandala like below.
Soka is considered a new-age religion here (Japan). Although Nichiren shoshu is considered as a "traditional" form of Buddhism, as pointed out, due to its exclusivism and views on other Buddhist traditions, Nichiren-influenced or not, it is not a member of the All-Japan Buddhist Federation and does not participate in ecumenical activities.
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Can explain what is Guizimu (鬼å�æ¯�)?
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HÄ�rÄ«tÄ« (Sanskrit), also known as Kishimojin in Japanese:鬼å�æ¯�神, is a Buddhist goddess for the protection of children, easy delivery, happy child rearing and parenting, harmony between husband and wife, love, and the well-being and safety of the family. Women without children also pray to Kishimojin to help them become pregnant.
Originally, Kishimojin/ Hariti was a cannibalistic demon. She had hundreds of children whom she loved and doted upon, but to feed them, she abducted and killed the children of others. The bereaved mothers of her victims pleaded to Ś�kyamuni Buddha to save them.
Ś�kyamuni stole Aiji, youngest of Kishimojin's sons, and hid him under his rice bowl. Kishimojin desperately searched for her missing son throughout the universe. Finally, she pleaded with Shakyamuni for help. The Buddha pointed out that she was suffering because she lost one of hundreds of children, and asked if she could imagine the suffering of parents whose only child had been devoured. She replied contritely that their suffering must be many times greater than hers, and vowed to protect all children.
Kishimojin became the goddess of easy birthing and the protection and parenting of children.
Some stories describe her as an aspect of Kannon. She is also sometimes identified with the Hindu goddess Kali.
Pancika was her consort, and he fathered her children. He was one of the 28 Yakṣa generals in the army of Vaiśravaṇa (Bishamonten).
In Gandhara, depictions of H�rītī take on many attributes of the Greek goddess Tyche; like Tyche, she is often depicted holding a cornucopia and dressed in Greek attire.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hariti
(Just realised, her mantra 訶利�呪 is included as one of the 10 short mantras ��呪 chanted at morning services in Chinese Buddhist monasteries.
In Nichiren Buddhism, she is considered as one of the protectors of the Lotus Sutra.)
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Thanks so much for your response Sarnath.
From my experience and long discussions of Buddhism with my SOKA friends, after having visited their centre, and also visited the centre of Nichiren Shoshu of Singapore. I realise that both places had very warm and nice people and I could see that their followers have strong faith and solid practice.
From my very preliminary encounter with them, in the Nichiren Shoshu school, their main tenets are basically the same with all mahayana schools of Buddhism, practicing to rid the 3 poisons, karma, to lessen attachments etc. They believe this can be done through the chanting of the mantra Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo. From my observation, generally, their followers do have a good solid foundation in the same Buddhism which is taught at other Mahayana temples. They do know about the tipitaka(maybe the japanese version to be more accurate) And also of course the different Mahayana schools of thought. However, they strongly emphasize those mentioned above being book knowledge and the door to being able to integrate those book knowledge into one's daily life and actions is thru the chanting of the mantra as mentioned above.
As for their dedication towards chanting their mantra, from what I observe, it is no less than those who follow the Pureland school. As such, as with the pureland schools, they appeal to ppl who like the methods of mantra recitation.
In the practice of mantra, I guess that I can safely say that concentration is practised and at the same time, the practice of mantra generally generates a very powerful mental energy in the practitioner that goes with the mantra. This is common with all schools that practice the mantra method. The practitioners of the Nichiren schools also seem to experience and exhibit these from my personal observation.
In SOKA, from what I know, their practitioners chant the same mantra to bring out the inherent life force in them. From the explanation of my friend who shared this with me, the life force he means is the life force which is one with the whole universe and himself and all beings. After some further discussion, I gather his explanation of the life force being a little similar to the concept of Buddha Nature of the Mahayana Schools. From what I know, this chanting also serves to align one to the natural way of things in this world. Sometimes people also chant for more altruistic purposes, like for all one's friends to be well and happy and free from suffering, or more mundane wants like to get a good job. About their base in the general Buddhist teachings, I cannot say much as I have not really spoken much with them about it. But I do know that in Singapore, they do have dedicated classes that teach Buddhist knowledge. They also do have a certain basic understandings of the 3 poisons etc.
Other than that, to clarify a misconception, they do not pray to a box or a piece of paper. The 'piece of paper' in the box is actually a mandala first drawn up by Nichiren and subsequently by the priests of the tradition. On it contains the names of many Great Patriarchs and Bodhisattvas, heavenly kings and heavenly protectors. Of course, not forgetting their main mantra as the centre piece. My friend told me, when bowing to the Gohonzon(the mandala, gohonzon actually means the main image of worship in japanese) , one is bowing to one's Buddha inside oneself, or one's Buddha nature in short. To remember this great potentiality inside everyone to achieve the sublime state of Buddhahood. And to remind one to strive to that stage and be one with it one day sooner.
Similarities aside, it is an interesting fact to note that Nichiren went around exploring all other schools of Buddhism of his time and challenged their practitioners in public debate. Thereafter, mostly he saw the futility of all other schools to achieve Buddhahood. Or maybe, could it be that the practitioners of his time or those which he encountered were not any good in their practice?
Yea, so just to give you guys a better idea of the insides of these two schools from what I know. If anyone readin is a member of these organisations, pls do correct me if i do make any mistakes along the way.
In any case, as what is said in the famous Kalama Sutta, I think the faith of these people from the Nichiren Schools comes from the truth they find in the practices evocated by Nichiren. On the other hand, I think that those who have not explored and ventured and had first hand contact with the Nichiren or SOKA followers and temples not comment too much on their form of Buddhism.Another thing I would like to share is that what we always hear and see about the Nichiren schools could be just the critism of one school on the other. For example when I was speaking with the people from Nichiren Shoshu, they were talking about the corupt practices of the Nichiren Shu which resulted in their break away and about SOKA being politically oriented. When I speak with the people from SOKA, they would talk of the people from Nichiren Shoshu having corupt practices which are not in line with Nichiren's teachings anymore. So whatever hearsay we hear or read of could be added on rumous started by any of these factions. Thus my advice is NOT to believe in any of these or take any other person's word for it but truly explore and know for yourselves their teachings first hand.
Hands palm to palm,
Emanrohe
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Hi,
just to share my own personal experience. For about half a year between 1999 and 2000 after finishing NS i was quite interested and did attend meetings at both Soka Gakkai and Nichiren Shoshu.
Whilst they were truly warm and sincere, however, i was rather peeved off by their constant attacks on each other (which still continues till today, especially in Japan) and attacks on other Buddhist teachings. I still remember we were actually asked to chant the daimoku to "attain victory and to shakubuku the other party (SGI vs NSS)". There is also a book published by SGI that details on the wrongdoings of Nichiren Shoshu and its former head priest, which of course, Nichiren Shoshu rebutts.
If you are really interested in knowing about Nichiren Buddhism, there's the "Lotus Sutra Buddhist Association (Nichiren Shu)" whose member supa-naga posts in this forum often.
For myself, i'm a Jodo Shin Buddhist (Pure Land).
Gassho
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Originally posted by Emanrohe:
Thanks so much for your response Sarnath.
From my experience and long discussions of Buddhism with my SOKA friends, after having visited their centre, and also visited the centre of Nichiren Shoshu of Singapore. I realise that both places had very warm and nice people and I could see that their followers have strong faith and solid practice.
From my very preliminary encounter with them, in the Nichiren Shoshu school, their main tenets are basically the same with all mahayana schools of Buddhism, practicing to rid the 3 poisons, karma, to lessen attachments etc. They believe this can be done through the chanting of the mantra Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo. From my observation, generally, their followers do have a good solid foundation in the same Buddhism which is taught at other Mahayana temples. They do know about the tipitaka(maybe the japanese version to be more accurate) And also of course the different Mahayana schools of thought. However, they strongly emphasize those mentioned above being book knowledge and the door to being able to integrate those book knowledge into one's daily life and actions is thru the chanting of the mantra as mentioned above.
As for their dedication towards chanting their mantra, from what I observe, it is no less than those who follow the Pureland school. As such, as with the pureland schools, they appeal to ppl who like the methods of mantra recitation.
In the practice of mantra, I guess that I can safely say that concentration is practised and at the same time, the practice of mantra generally generates a very powerful mental energy in the practitioner that goes with the mantra. This is common with all schools that practice the mantra method. The practitioners of the Nichiren schools also seem to experience and exhibit these from my personal observation.
In SOKA, from what I know, their practitioners chant the same mantra to bring out the inherent life force in them. From the explanation of my friend who shared this with me, the life force he means is the life force which is one with the whole universe and himself and all beings. After some further discussion, I gather his explanation of the life force being a little similar to the concept of Buddha Nature of the Mahayana Schools. From what I know, this chanting also serves to align one to the natural way of things in this world. Sometimes people also chant for more altruistic purposes, like for all one's friends to be well and happy and free from suffering, or more mundane wants like to get a good job. About their base in the general Buddhist teachings, I cannot say much as I have not really spoken much with them about it. But I do know that in Singapore, they do have dedicated classes that teach Buddhist knowledge. They also do have a certain basic understandings of the 3 poisons etc.
Other than that, to clarify a misconception, they do not pray to a box or a piece of paper. The 'piece of paper' in the box is actually a mandala first drawn up by Nichiren and subsequently by the priests of the tradition. On it contains the names of many Great Patriarchs and Bodhisattvas, heavenly kings and heavenly protectors. Of course, not forgetting their main mantra as the centre piece. My friend told me, when bowing to the Gohonzon(the mandala, gohonzon actually means the main image of worship in japanese) , one is bowing to one's Buddha inside oneself, or one's Buddha nature in short. To remember this great potentiality inside everyone to achieve the sublime state of Buddhahood. And to remind one to strive to that stage and be one with it one day sooner.
Similarities aside, it is an interesting fact to note that Nichiren went around exploring all other schools of Buddhism of his time and challenged their practitioners in public debate. Thereafter, mostly he saw the futility of all other schools to achieve Buddhahood. Or maybe, could it be that the practitioners of his time or those which he encountered were not any good in their practice?
Yea, so just to give you guys a better idea of the insides of these two schools from what I know. If anyone readin is a member of these organisations, pls do correct me if i do make any mistakes along the way.
In any case, as what is said in the famous Kalama Sutta, I think the faith of these people from the Nichiren Schools comes from the truth they find in the practices evocated by Nichiren. On the other hand, I think that those who have not explored and ventured and had first hand contact with the Nichiren or SOKA followers and temples not comment too much on their form of Buddhism.Another thing I would like to share is that what we always hear and see about the Nichiren schools could be just the critism of one school on the other. For example when I was speaking with the people from Nichiren Shoshu, they were talking about the corupt practices of the Nichiren Shu which resulted in their break away and about SOKA being politically oriented. When I speak with the people from SOKA, they would talk of the people from Nichiren Shoshu having corupt practices which are not in line with Nichiren's teachings anymore. So whatever hearsay we hear or read of could be added on rumous started by any of these factions. Thus my advice is NOT to believe in any of these or take any other person's word for it but truly explore and know for yourselves their teachings first hand.
Hands palm to palm,
Emanrohe
Hi , Emanrohe , I think you have a idea that they are nice .
SGI do not represent Buddhism in any ways .first they refused to recognise Sakyamuni and based their belief on a lay man words.this layman is the current president of SGI international
Next , You should try to go and find out whats their curriculum for SGI .They have to take exams for the Lotus Sutra and they rejected the Universal Gate Chapter .Since you are from Kwan Yin School of Korean Zen .You should know this chapter is Praise of Avalokiteshvara
They classified the Lotus Sutra as inferior and superior chapters .May I ask this question,Who turn the wheel of the Wondeful Lotus ?Nichiren or Sakyamuni
stop twisting the fact of this sutra .
Then they feel they use new terminology to deal with modern social issue .That to me isnt Buddhism ,but an new age religion .
I have friend who left Sokka Gakkai after disgusted by their shallow of teaching and constant criticism of other school of Buddhism
So ,let me go back to Kalama Sutta .Do you need to be a christian , muslim , hindu ,catholic before you come to Buddhism ?
the answer is no .You just need those who were once in that religion to understand their religion more , instead of experiencing yourself
Thats y i feel certain teaching in Pali Cannon is incomplete ,and cannot be use as Yardstick for Buddhist practice
thanks
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So ,let me go back to Kalama Sutta .Do you need to be a christian , muslim , hindu ,catholic before you come to Buddhism ?
the answer is no .You just need those who were once in that religion to understand their religion more , instead of experiencing yourself
Well, an angmo may eat the durian and say that it is terrible, I will eat the durian and say that it is good. An Ajahn may eat the durian mixed with ice-cream and rice with fish and chicken in his almsbowl and say, now that he has had his fill, it is time to meditate.
Thanks for the tip :)
Hands palm to palm,
Emanrohe
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Btw, why do you think that the teaching in the Pali Cannon is incomplete?
_(|)_
Emanrohe
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wow this thread still on ?
I am surprised many join in to talk about Soka .
Nice thing to know more about Soka .
Good to learn one more religion in Singapore .
I know Soka thru my mum , but after so long , still not one of their member .
No " Yuan Fen " .
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U know , there is one temple ? U called that temple ? It's located at Geylang , they from Nichiren Shoshu , not really related to Soka .
Soka association HQ is at Tampines St 81 , sub-branch can be found at Telok Blangah , and one at Bt Panjang Senja Road .
Pasir Panjang also got one .
Jurong West also got one , near Jalan Bahar .
This is Soka , not Nichiren Shoshu .
Nichiren Shoshu only got one at Geylang .
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Those chingay and National parade , it's Soka who participate , nothing related to Nichiren Shoshu .
I think the overall members population of Soka is very big . Nichiren Shoshu is very small .
Don't mixed this two assocations in Sgp , they are not related .
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Originally posted by Poolman:
Those chingay and National parade , it's Soka who participate , nothing related to Nichiren Shoshu .
I think the overall members population of Soka is very big . Nichiren Shoshu is very small .
Don't mixed this two assocations in Sgp , they are not related .
They are the most related in terms of doctrine, lineage and history, but they hate each other.
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Since its founding Soka Gakkai was part of Nichiren Shoshu's lay branch, and SGI's first two presidents were adherents of Nichiren Shoshu. SGI and NSS split bitterly in 1990 due to a rift between Ikeda and Nikken, as the two accused each other of trying to intervene in each other's policies. Nikken excommunicated Ikeda and the whole of Soka Gakkai around 1990 to 1991. THAT'S why they're still bitter towards each other.
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Put a toilet bowl in front of them and tell them it is an object of worship and nichiren followers will worship it.
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It is very simple. Soka is not considered mainstream buddhism because of its teachings.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Put a toilet bowl in front of them and tell them it is an object of worship and nichiren followers will worship it.
Oeii.. there is kind of rude.... -
Originally posted by Isis:
Oeii.. there is kind of rude....
Rude??? They still like to bring up the term "Hakk� ichiu " from time to time. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Rude??? They still like to bring up the term "Hakk� ichiu " from time to time.
it's just a political slogan -
Originally posted by Isis:
it's just a political slogan
Nicheren followers like to use it as a religious slogan. -
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I went 2009 bookfair at Suntec city lvl 4 .
there's a bookstand selling Soka buddhism stuff.
Never heard of Soka wads it ?
They are the group taking part in chingay paradeSingapore soka buddhism ?
the flag 3 colors not the standard buddhism flag y ?
There used to be quite a few stalls of Buddhist book publishers & bookshops during the bookfair of the previous yrs when it was called World Bookfair.
These stalls are no longer around this yr, which Buddha's Light publishing (FGS), Still Thoughts books (Tzu Chi) & Jen Chen Books Publishers (Ren Cheng).
But fortunately, the following publishers of pesudo-Buddhist cults disappeared also: True Buddha Publications & Ching Hai books; except for the ever-financially strong Soka Gakkai (SSA).
Lord Buddha's Grace,
Supa Naga