Does buddhism believes in the spreading of the buddhist religion?
spreading of the TEACHING of buddha. NOT RELIGION.
Originally posted by youyayu:spreading of the TEACHING of buddha. NOT RELIGION.
Same thing lah. Unless the teaching is not spread but the spirit is spread.
Originally posted by S.gal83:Does buddhism believes in the spreading of the buddhist religion?
Not in the same way as how Christians do that, e.g. massive evangelism. But we do encourage sharing dharma with others. But I do believe a more proactive effort to spread our teachings is possible.
Conversion in Buddhism is also not just a "just believe and that's it" thing, the person must be interested and learn more about the dharma himself also, ultimately it is himself who is going to attain enlightenment and liberation. The important thing is not just conversion but how is he truly going to benefit from the dharma? Is he truly keen to learn and practice it to see its benefits?
So in this sense, the way we see spirituality is different from the way other religions sees it.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Not in the same way as how Christians do that, e.g. massive evangelism. But we do encourage sharing dharma with others.
Conversion in Buddhism is also not just a "just believe and that's it" thing, the person must be interested and learn more about the dharma himself also, ultimately it is himself who is going to attain enlightenment and liberation. The important thing is not just conversion but how is he truly going to benefit from the dharma?
So in this sense, the way we see spirituality is different from the way other religions sees it.
Try not believing but understand thing also doesn't bring someone anywhere.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Try not believing but understand thing also doesn't bring someone anywhere.
Certain level of faith is necessary for the person to start walking the path. Understanding is important, but if you understand and don't practice/walk the path then there's no use.
Enlightenment, liberation is gained through walking the path and gaining direct experience. A natural confidence grows not dependent on belief but on one's experience, insights. Faith, belief, transforms into conviction and certainty born of insights and experience.
The answer is no w.r.t ur question. What is the intention of spreading the religion?
Discerning Religious Teachings
The Buddha instructs the Kalama People on which basis one should decide which religious teaching to accept as true. The Buddha tells the Kalamas to not just believe religious teachings because they are claimed to be true by various sources or through the application of various methods and techniques. He urges that direct knowledge from one's own experience should be called upon. He counsels that the words of the wise should be heeded and taken into account when deciding upon the value of a teaching. This is not a dogmatic acceptance but rather a constantly questioning and testing acceptance of those teachings which can be proven to reduce suffering.
In other words, Buddhism is like a science and you are a scientist. It is supposed to have a spirit of free-enquiries and not something to be taken in blindly.
Originally posted by Isis:The answer is no w.r.t ur question. What is the intention of spreading the religion?
Discerning Religious Teachings
The Buddha instructs the Kalama People on which basis one should decide which religious teaching to accept as true. The Buddha tells the Kalamas to not just believe religious teachings because they are claimed to be true by various sources or through the application of various methods and techniques. He urges that direct knowledge from one's own experience should be called upon. He counsels that the words of the wise should be heeded and taken into account when deciding upon the value of a teaching. This is not a dogmatic acceptance but rather a constantly questioning and testing acceptance of those teachings which can be proven to reduce suffering.
- Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing,
- nor upon tradition,
- nor upon rumor ,
- nor upon what is in a scripture,
- nor upon surmise,
- nor upon an axiom,
- nor upon specious reasoning,
- nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over,
- nor upon another's seeming ability,
- nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher."
- Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'
In other words, Buddhism is like a science and you are a scientist. It is supposed to have a spirit of free-enquiries and not something to be taken in blindly.
Then the religious dogma of cause and effect is not true.
Actually, if you seriously consider it, Herzog_Zwei's concern of "Then the religious dogma of cause and effect is not true." is very valid! That's how I have always felt. We keep on talking about cause and effect, but how do you prove it?
:) Metta _(|)_
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Then the religious dogma of cause and effect is not true.
H1N1 flu virus, how does it came about? cos the virus mutated isnt it. isnt this a classic case?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Then the religious dogma of cause and effect is not true.
You can think it there way. But how do you prove it?
Originally posted by Isis:
You can think it there way. But how do you prove it?
Not every effect will have a cause and not every cause will have a effect.
It is seen in everday life. When a person breathes, it causes a disturbance in air pressure. Then if so, one's breathe can be the cause of a Hurricane or a tornado but with so many people around in this world, is there that many hurricane or tornado around the world?
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Not every effect will have a cause and not every cause will have a effect.It is seen in everday life. When a person breathes, it causes a disturbance in air pressure. Then if so, one's breathe can be the cause of a Hurricane or a tornado but with so many people around in this world, is there that many hurricane or tornado around the world?
That is not the only cause for tornados.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Not every effect will have a cause and not every cause will have a effect.It is seen in everday life. When a person breathes, it causes a disturbance in air pressure. Then if so, one's breathe can be the cause of a Hurricane or a tornado but with so many people around in this world, is there that many hurricane or tornado around the world?
May i ask what cause you to write this down?
Originally posted by Emanrohe:Actually, if you seriously consider it, Herzog_Zwei's concern of "Then the religious dogma of cause and effect is not true." is very valid! That's how I have always felt. We keep on talking about cause and effect, but how do you prove it?
:) Metta _(|)_
As I wrote to HZ:
If dependent origination does not occur everywhere, then if I do A (cause) + B (condition) then it may or may not result in C (effect)
It doesn't make sense. If I put a blue chemical and a green chemical together and it's supposed to have a chemical reaction resulting in a yellow chemical, you're saying the reaction may or may not take place.
Or if I hit the bell, and your ears are working properly, there's a probability you might not actually hear the sound.
If you're talking about karma that spans multiple lifetimes, this is something that is meant to be taken by faith before we experience it.
Originally posted by Isis:
May i ask what cause you to write this down?
Just because I noticed it in real life and I noted it down for my own personal reference.
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Just because I noticed it in real life and I noted it down for my own personal reference.
Why did you noted it down for personal reference then?
For Christians, they encourage followers to spread the knowledge to other people.
For Buddhists, they encourage other people to be enlightened first before coming to accept their Teaching. When destiny comes, other people would naturally believe in buddhism and come to join us.
Originally posted by man4422:For Christians, they encourage followers to spread the knowledge to other people.
For Buddhists, they encourage other people to be enlightened first before coming to accept their Teaching. When destiny comes, other people would naturally believe in buddhism and come to join us.
Are you enlightened or disabuse of notion?
from my personal understanding, cause & effect as we understand it in daily life is just an extremely superficial view of how reality works (dependent origination). nothing wrong with A+B=C understanding of cause & effect and it works for our simple understanding of how things works in daily life. hit the bell and if the ears are working and we will hear the sound of bell, no problem. mix blue and green and u get yellow, no problem too. but this superficial and simplistic understanding does not in any way fully describe the teaching of dependent origination or how reality, phenomenon and processes works.
reason
why when a person breathes, changes the air pressure but didn't cause
tornado is simply because dependent origination is not so simplistic as
A+B=C as we think it is. dependent origination is probably more like
A+B+C...N=result, where N=infinity, to put it in scientific sense.
that's why kind person (A) + do good deeds (B) does not always = good
outcome (not immediately anyway). we see kind people who do good still
encounter so-called bad outcomes simply because all the conditions are
not in place to produce the good outcome. we assume we just need A+B
but in reality it is A+B+C....N to produce the "good outcome". so when
we mistakenly assume that we only need A+B=C, and we don't see it
happens immediately (like good people encountering bad circumstances),
we then further mistakenly thinks that dependent origination is not
true, cause & effect is not true. fact of matter is we do not
appreciate dependent origination deeply enough to know its implications
and how it impacts the simplistic "cause & effect" phenomenon in
daily life.
i think the teaching of emptiness helps me personally
to understand dependent origination much better. the lack of inherent
existence of A, B, C...N is exactly why the eventual and expected
outcome can be "produced" relatively. at what exact point in time does
a seed appear/disappear that leads to the exact point in time a sprout
appear/disappear? who knows...
Neither from itself nor from another,
Nor from both,
Nor without a cause,
Does anything whatever, anywhere arise.
- Nagarjuna
Yes nicely said.
I just posted something related in another forum a few hours ago:
What appears to be chance and chaos, is simply a manifestation with conditions beyond our understanding.
We
can never understand all conditionings, and even Buddha said that only
a Buddha who has attained omniscience can totally comprehend the
functioning of karma. Even Arhats (someone who is realized and
liberated but has not attained the omniscience of a Buddha) can't, and
it's known as one of the four unponderables.
Just like we can
forecast the weather, but we can't exactly give a 100% accurate
prediction. Maybe 90%, 80% accuracy if one is a good forecaster? The
flow of weather, the air pressure, wind, clouds, etc, and all other
types of conditionings changing moment by moment, it's almost
impossible to know what exactly will result from all the different
types of conditionings which appears as a chaos, but it doesn't mean
that it is total chaos without order, nor does it mean that weather
happens by chance.
As Thusness once said, "Chaos theory breaks determinism, breaks boundary, yet does not deny order... a higher order that is too complex to be determined.
Initial cause does not result into a predetermined action. From a
spiritual perspective, the rigidity of ‘I’ as a fixed pattern order
must be broken down for life to be experienced in its full dynamics as
wondrous manifestation."
ah yes.. thanks for reminding me! i was trying to recall this term "four unponderables" that i've heard before but can't remember it when i want to. when i google it, some also term it as "four imponderables" - karma, beginning of universe, buddha-range and jhana--range.
i'm only beginning to appreciate how dependent origination breaks our simplistic assumption of cause & effect. how emptiness helps to dissolve the fixation of specific "causes" and "effects" to reveal the wonder of how things naturally are, and rationalize the mundane conflicts of "why things don't turn out the way we think/want".
when i first encountered teachings on emptiness, it was easier to "break the determinism, break boundary" but difficult to "maintain order" thinking that all things should just unravel. but through repeated self analysis and contemplations, i've since been able to understand and appreciate better the inherent "orderliness" of things even within the realm of total emptiness of self-existence.
amazing how profound buddhist teachings are. especially when bringing this appreciation back to our mundane daily life.
Dear all,
My 2 cents, sharing something insightful a colleague has shared on the above topics.
"Buddhism(teachings) is to have more Buddhas not Buddhist"
Best regards
colinkgl
colinkgl - very insightful. you have a very wise colleague indeed.
removed by AEN: wrong forum