Originally posted by seyKai:no self, no idenfication? can man live on water alone?
Life continues as before, but not a 'me' who lives. Life without a center. No more suffering, no more sense of contraction and limitation of being 'inside the body mind'. Inner and outer becomes one, one feels weightless, boundless, free.
Eating still happens, daily activities continue to happen, but without the sense of a 'I' or 'doership'... rather the whole universe is making this moment happen.
even u reach that stage, wat is the purpose?
or life is without a purpose?
Originally posted by seyKai:even u reach that stage, wat is the purpose?
or life is without a purpose?
Those who do not know Buddhism, their purpose of life can be selfish. Earn lots of money, have a good life, etc.
Those who do not know Buddhism but have a sense of a higher purpose may want to work on the welfare of other fellow beings and that may be their purpose. People like Mother Theresa, Gandhi, etc...
Those who knows Buddhism and seeks liberation, liberation and the highest bliss of Nirvana is their goal and purpose.
Those who knows Buddhism but does not seek only the Hinayana aspiration (which is only to seek one's own liberation/salvation), but also has the Mahayana sort of aspiration (to attain Buddhahood for the sake of all sentient beings) -- their goal and purpose is not just to attain liberation but to seek enlightenment and liberation for all other beings and attain the highest, supreme, unsurpassed enlightenment of a Buddha.
It should be noted that someone with a higher aspiration does not necessarily reject those of the lesser aspirations... there can be many.
For example one who aspires for Buddhahood does not mean he cannot seek his own liberation, but at the same time he does not stop at his own liberation and enter his personal nirvana.
Those who seek Nirvana also does not mean he cannot work on his worldly aspiration of helping other beings in the worldly sense.
And those who seek to help other beings does not mean he necessarily neglects his own health, wealth, career, etc.
But I should add the primary purpose of Buddhism, is to end suffering and attain the highest bliss.
I believe all humans aspire for that, but Buddhism deals with the problem from its very roots.
is it just a beliv or teaching?
how is it possible in this modern days, where 99% of ppl have to lie or cheat to just to make a living?
seyKai, have you ever heard people described someone compassionate as selfless? Or some musicians and artists, when they are focusing on their masterpiece, they temporarily forget about their own existence? (忘我) So selflessness is not so scary after all.
It is the habit of clinging to this concept of "I" that suffering arise. For example, if someone starts to attack me by words, it seems "natural" that I get hurt and I feel angry if I have very big ego. What Buddhism is saying is that you have a choice, you can choose not to get hurt, not to be angry, not clinging to your ego.
Originally posted by JitKiat:seyKai, have you ever heard people described someone compassionate as selfless? Or some musicians and artists, when they are focusing on their masterpiece, they temporarily forget about their own existence? (忘我) So selflessness is not so scary after all.
It is the habit of clinging to this concept of "I" that suffering arise. For example, if someone starts to attack me by words, it seems "natural" that I get hurt and I feel angry if I have very big ego. What Buddhism is saying is that you have a choice, you can choose not to get hurt, not to be angry, not clinging to your ego.
artists & musicians still have to earn a living to feed their family, so even he dun eat n suffer, he still have to find food to put on the table. i called that responsibility.
Originally posted by seyKai:is it just a beliv or teaching?
how is it possible in this modern days, where 99% of ppl have to lie or cheat to just to make a living?
It is not a belief, and I have friends and teachers who have already attained enlightenment and liberation.
There are enlightened people in this forum too... (not me)
Lying and cheating is bad karma, so please try to refrain from that as much as possible. I don't think we can't make a living without lying and cheating.
E.g. If you sell something at $1 per 100gm, please sell it at the correct amount. Don't cheat by giving only 95gm or less. Don't create immense bad karma for a bit more money.
have u told a lie before?
Originally posted by seyKai:have u told a lie before?
Yes, but nothing recent I can recall.
not a matter of time, but a matter of truth
even if you were to tell a lie just to feed the family, is it a matter of self?
and whether the other ppl have achieve enlightement, i think he can only speaks for himself. coz no one knows better than he himself
Yes, all of us still need to work to feed ourselves/family. The difference is if we have big ego, we will suffer greatly as we get hurt everyday. Buddhism seeks to explain how suffering comes about and who you how to deal with it. If we believe in Buddhism, we will have the right view & understanding about nature of our ego and why bad things happen, we will be motivated to choose the right job, speak the right words, perform the right action and attain greater happiness (although this is not the ultimate yet).
Originally posted by JitKiat:Yes, all of us still need to work to feed ourselves/family. The difference is if we have big ego, we will suffer greatly as we get hurt everyday. Buddhism seeks to explain how suffering comes about and who you how to deal with it. If we believe in Buddhism, we will have the right view & understanding about nature of our ego and why bad things happen, we will be motivated to choose the right job, speak the right words, perform the right action and attain greater happiness (although this is not the ultimate yet).
so wat you are saying is buddhism is a teaching?
Originally posted by seyKai:not a matter of time, but a matter of truth
even if you were to tell a lie just to feed the family, is it a matter of self?
and whether the other ppl have achieve enlightement, i think he can only speaks for himself. coz no one knows better than he himself
You don't have to tell a lie to feed the family, we have to use some wisdom.
Also, if you ask these enlightened people to talk about their enlightenment, some or most of them would be willing to talk about it. Even if they don't announce it in public. I know many who openly admit their enlightenment, and those who admit it but not as openly as others (i.e. you have to ask him about it).
Yes, Buddhism is a teaching. However, it can manifests in many forms by different schools, as different beings have different inclinations/likings but ultimately it leads to liberation (cessation of suffering).
Originally posted by seyKai:
so wat you are saying is buddhism is a teaching?
Buddhism is about the truth of suffering, the cause of suffering, the way and path out of suffering, and the end of suffering and attainment of the highest bliss. (4 noble truths)
So it contains teachings/view, path (practice), and fruition.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You don't have to tell a lie to feed the family, we have to use some wisdom.
Also, if you ask these enlightened people to talk about their enlightenment, some or most of them would be willing to talk about it. Even if they don't announce it in public. I know many who openly admit their enlightenment, and those who admit it but not as openly as others (i.e. you have to ask him about it).
wisdom comes from experience and some may say from teaching
wen there is no self then why does he need to admit that he has attains enlightenment? for glory?
why do you need to suffer to attain highest bliss? ingorance is bliss
Originally posted by seyKai:
wisdom comes from experience and some may say from teachingwen there is no self then why does he need to admit that he has attains enlightenment? for glory?
why do you need to suffer to attain highest bliss, ingorance is bliss
Wisdom comes from first learning the teaching, then practicing and realising it for yourself.
One can admit one's enlightenment so that others feel confident that they can achieve it too. It's not an ego thing. The Buddha himself proclaimed that he was awakened and so did many other enlightened beings. If nobody proclaim his own awakening, then Buddhism might be mistaken as impossible or impractical and nobody will have confidence. Also it helps to know who is awaken: then you know who to share notes and learn from.
Ignorance (not knowing our true nature, clinging to self) is suffering, but you don't know it. If you know that ignorance is causing suffering you'll let go... but this knowledge will not come through theory but through diligent bare mindfulness of our experience.
i dun see your point, if one can attain enlightenment so why need to proclaim
practice with heart and use your intuition. for even if we discuss this until the end of time is useless. In nlp this is called ur map is not my territory.
suffering is just a word used to discribe the aggregate of experiences that is perceived thru dualistic nature of the sense of self
Originally posted by seyKai:i dun see your point, if one can attain enlightenment so why need to proclaim
To summarize my point:
1) Proclaim to show that it is possible, practical for ordinary people like us
2) Useful for people to know who to look to learn from
Originally posted by geis:practice with heart and use your intuition. for even if we discuss this until the end of time is useless. In nlp this is called ur map is not my territory.
suffering is just a word used to discribe the aggregate of experiences that is perceived thru dualistic nature of the sense of self
so practicing Buddhism is only for oneself?
Practicing Buddhism is not only for oneself. As everything is inter-dependent, changing ourselves will also benefit our family members and people who are closely related to us eventually. For those who are by nature more compassionate, they may get involved in activities of Engaged/Humanistic Buddhism like Tzu Chi Foundation to reach out to even more people.
why need to proclaim wen u have the faith? meaning we r weak n needed the support?
Originally posted by seyKai:why need to proclaim wen u have the faith? meaning we r weak n needed the support?
For those who don't have faith. Even those who have faith may have wrong notions like "it's too difficult for me, it's not possible, it might take hundreds of lifetimes" etc.