Was the Buddha a vegan after he attained enlightenment?
What did he instructed to his disciples and followers on this issue?
Buddha expressly forbidden animals to be slaughtered for food, however, as a mendicant, relying on alms, a monk cannot refuse what ever is offered, unless it was made known to the monk that the animal is slaughtered for his consumption.
I see. Did the Buddha ever spoken on being a vegan?
http://www.kmspks.org/articles/vege.htm
Must Buddhists Be Vegetarian?
Article Expanded 27/05/03
“If a person does not harm any living being…
and does not kill or cause others to kill-
that person is a true spiritual practitioner.”
-Dhammapada (The Buddha)
"In
order to satisfy one human stomach, so many lives are taken away.
We must promote vegetarianism. It is extremely
important."
-Live in a Better Way: Reflections on Truth, Love and Happiness
(pg 68)
(His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama)
Click here for 12 Quotes by HHDL on Vegetarianism
Must Buddhists be vegetarian?
No.
Why the fuss then?
Though the Buddha
never made it a compulsory rule that all His followers have to be
vegetarians, He strongly encouraged us to be. In the Bodhisattva
practice of minimising harm to all beings and benefiting them as
much as possible, the practice of vegetarianism as far as possible
plays an essential role. We
can see this in many of the Buddha's recorded teachings.
“The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great Compassion.”
-Mahaparinirvana Sutra (The Buddha)
"...Ananda,
I permit the bhiksus (monks) to eat only the five kinds of pure
flesh* which are the product of my transcendental power of
transformation and not of animal slaughter. You, Brahman, live in
a country where vegetables do not grow because it is too damp and
hot and because of all the gravel and rock. I use my spiritual power
of compassion to provide you with illusory meat to satisfy your
appetite. How then, after my nirvana, can you eat the flesh of living
beings and so pretend to be my disciple?..."
"...All monks who live purely and all Bodhisattvas always refrain even from walking on grass; how can they agree to uproot it? How then can those who practise great Compassion feed on the flesh and blood of living beings?..."
”...How can a monk, who hopes to become a deliverer of others, himself be living on the flesh of sentient beings?...”
”...If a man can (control) his body and mind and thereby refrains from eating animal products, I say he will really be liberated. This teaching of mine is that of the Buddha whereas any others that of evil demons..."
-Surangama
Sutra (The Buddha)
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Shurangama/Shurangama.htm
”The Bodhisattva, whose nature is Compassion, is not to eat any meat… For fear of causing terror to living beings…let the Bodhisattva who is disciplining himself to attain Compassion, refrain from eating flesh.”
-Lankavatara
Sutra (The Buddha)
"If a bhikkhu sees, hears or suspects that it has been
killed for him, he may not eat it."
-Mahavagga of Vinaya Pitaka (The Buddha)
"Let him not destroy, or cause to be
destroyed, any life at all, nor sanction the acts of those who do
so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature, both those that
are strong and those that tremble in the world."
-Sutta-Nipata (The Buddha)
"I have enforced
the law against killing certain animals and many others, but the
greatest progress of righteousness among men comes from the exhortation
in favor of non-injury to life and abstention from killing living
beings."
-King Asoka's Edicts
All true practitioners
of the Bodhisattva path eventually relinquish meat-eating. In His
previous lives, the Buddha as a Bodhisattva would rather cut His
own flesh to feed an eagle than let it eat a smaller bird. All advanced
practising Bodhisattvas are thus necessarily vegetarians, since
they cannot bear the pain of sentient beings.
While nothing we eat makes us impure, our choice of diet is an action
with implications. If our choice of diet arises from greed, sustaining
the greed obviously makes us impure.
If being vegetarian is so important on the Bodhisattva path,
why was the Buddha not one?
The Buddha and
the Sangha in His time were not total vegetarians as they consumed
alms food offered by lay followers, whom they encountered “randomly”
from place to place. Though the Buddha never requested specific
food to be offered, He spoke against the intentional acquiring of
meat for Him and the Sangha. In this way, the Buddha neither directly
nor indirectly cause the death of any being for His food. On the
other hand, we have the freedom of the choice of our diet, since
we do not eat alms food. Why not make the kinder and wiser decision?
Can’t I be a good Buddhist who is not vegetarian?
Of course we can. One who eats meat can cultivate a pure heart just as one who is vegetarian might have an impure heart. But why not cultivate a pure heart while making the extra effort to further the practice of Compassion by being vegetarian?
*But didn’t the Buddha say there is pure meat?
The Buddha advised
monks that meat should only be accepted when certain conditions
are met. Meat may be eaten by one who does (1) not see, (2) hear
of, (3) or doubt about the animal having been killed purposely for
him to eat, (4) but is certain that it either died naturally, (5)
or that its flesh had been abandoned by birds of prey.
Isn’t meat from the markets and restaurants considered pure meat?
No, because demand creates supply.
Once, a disciple of the Buddha asked a man why he kept buying meat. The man replied that he did so since the meat-seller kept selling meat. When the meat-seller was asked why he kept selling meat, he replied that he did so since the man kept buying from him. When the Buddha was consulted as to who was the unskillful (in Compassion and Wisdom) one, He replied that both were unskillful.
Supply and demand is an obvious vicious cycle. The whole universe of meat eating and animal slaughtering is an intricate web of interdependence, of related cause and effect. When we buy meat, we play a part in the circle of life and death of other beings.
What is real pure meat then?
Here are some forms of meat that can be considered pure meat.
1. Meat ordered
or received by mistake.
2. Leftover or discarded meat.
3. Meat from animals that have died naturally or by accident for
at least 16 hours
(The number of hours is to ensure the consciousness
has left the body).
4. Meat from random alms rounds as practised in the Buddhist tradition.
Isn’t killing vegetables taking life too?
Yes. However, plant life is not sentient life- they are not beings with reason and emotion.
Doesn’t growing vegetables kill many insects too?
This is not true if we choose organic food, which are grown without the use of pesticides (which can be harmful to humans too). In comparison to eating non-organic vegetables, pesticides are used fifty times more when we eat meat- to kill pests to produce animal feed. It takes ten kilos of vegetable protein to produce only one kilo of animal protein!
Much of our daily products also involve animals- such as leather shoes, milk from cows, honey from bees, soap from animal fat, drugs with animal serum (that might be tested on animals)… However, there are many new products today that are free from animal derivatives. Given more choice, we are at liberty to make wiser decisions on how to live life in a more harmless way. Consider becoming a vegan!
Despite all we can do, merely to live is to deprive other beings of their food, habitat and/ or life to a certain extent. Therefore, Buddhists practising the Bodhisattva path should do all they can in their ability to avoid killing, and to protect life instead.
Can you further convince me to be a vegetarian?
Here are some good reasons to be a vegetarian.
1. Personal well-being- No disease can come from a balanced vegetarian diet. Medical proof states that all kinds of diseases can spring from meat-eating, while having a vegetarian diet can not only prevent, but help cure many diseases. Our body constitution is also not designed for meat digestion. For example, our teeth and intestine structure are virtually identical to that of herbivorous, not carnivorous animals. Eating animals which die in great fear and hatred, we devour along their toxins of fear and hatred, which affects both our spiritual and physical health.
2. Well-being of animals- Animals live imprisoned and tortured lives before the final horror of being slaughtered. While alive, they suffer from overcrowding, castration and countless other cruelties.
3. Well-being of the environment- Animal-rearing depletes the Earth’s resources of energy, land, crops and water. It also creates large amounts of harmful animal sewage and greenhouse gases..
4. Well-being of fellow humans- More than two-thirds of the Earth’s cropland is used for cultivating animal feed for animals to be slaughtered as meat. No human starvation would exist if animal rearing for the rich meat-consumers was lessened, converting the crops as food for citizens of the Third World Countries.
5. Peace on Earth- Wars, racial riots and other forms of related human unrest are collective karmic results of generated hatred when group-slaughtered animals, which die in great fear and hatred, are reborn as humans.
“For
hundreds of thousands of years
the stew in the pot has brewed hatred and resentment
that is difficult to stop.
If you wish to know why there are disasters of armies and weapons
in the world,
listen to the piteous cries from the slaughterhouse at midnight.”
-Ancient Chinese Verse translated by Gold Mountain Monastery Staff
6. All beings have at one point or another been reborn as our kin. The practice of vegetarianism is thus the practice of filial piety. It is the practice of the Loving-kindness, Compassion and Equanimity to all beings, recognising that they have Buddha Nature (the potential to become Buddhas) like us.
What if vegetarian food is hard to find?
Another reason why the Buddha never made vegetarianism a compulsory rule is His understanding that the living and karmic conditions of different people are different. For example, it would be downright impossible for all Tibetan Buddhists to have vegetarian diets when Tibet can hardly grow vegetables. However, at least three major Tibetan monasteries have become totally vegetarian today with the aid of imported food.
What happens if you cannot find vegetarian food readily? Does it mean you have no choice but to eat meat? Think again carefully... the path of Compassion is not always easy to tread. It involves making many sacrifices. Being a committed vegetarian might mean having to go the extra mile to get vegetarian food.
Did
you know the Buddha is a vegetarian at heart?
The Buddha remarked that the meat He consumed in His entire life
was manifested by His great compassion and psychic powers. That
is to say, not only does the meat in theory already exist as pure
meat, it isn’t even real meat! In other words, the Buddha was
a full vegetarian at heart!
It is worth mentioning that the Buddha did not die from eating meat (poisoned or putrid pork), as it is so often mistaken. His last meal consisted of "sukara-maddava"- which is correctly translated to be (1) a pig's soft food, ie. food eaten by pigs, (2) "pig's delight," ie. a favourite food of pigs, (3) "pig-pounded," ie., food trampled by pigs. It was actually a kind of mushroom called truffles.
Why
do some well-known practitioners not vegetarian?
Some of these practitoners are advanced practising Bodhisattva,
who eat meat out of skillful means and compassion to benefit more
beings indirectly. In fact, they might even be enlightened beings
who are able to manifest "fake" meat like the Buddha.
If one wishes to follow the practices of these masters, one has
to be sure of one's motivation. If it is not compassion and wisdom,
it is greed and ignorance at play- nothing other than selfish rationalisation.
It is also a mistake to think that by eating meat, one will generate
a karmic Dharma connection with the deceased being, so as to help
it in future. These beings would rather us to connect with them
while alive- not when they are on your dinner plate!
On a related note, animal liberation (life-releasing) is easily
practised when we practise vegetarianism- which is simply liberating
animals from our dinner table. If one thinks carefully, it is actually
spiritually hypocritical to liberate animals from captivity when
we eat them. This is especially so when animal liberation is at
times done in an ignorant random manner, endangering environmental
balance, the animals themselves and other animals.
Hmmm… I’m still unsure whether to be a vegetarian…
Well… the
Buddha left it to you to choose!
Remember- Buddhism is a free religion. Though there are always kinder
and wiser choices you can make, you are also free to choose otherwise.
"A vegetarian diet is not obligatory
for Buddhists. Still, for those of us who follow the teachings of
the Great Vehicle, it is important. But the teachings of the Buddha
were open and flexible on this subject, and each practitioner has
the choice to be vegetarian or not."
-His
Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama
Reflect carefully-
why are you putting off vegetarianism when it so obviously has all
the plus points? Is it due to plain greed for the taste of meat?
If you want to be sure you are not vegetarian not because of greed,
the best solution is to be vegetarian and prove it to yourself.
This is not my challenge for you- this is your personal spiritual
challenge. We have to be totally honest with ourselves. Remember
this- your decision to be vegetarian or not will affect thousands
of sentient lives in your lifetime.
Quotes on Vegetarianism by the World's Most Famous
Buddhist-
His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama (1989 Nobel Peace Prize Laureate):
In
the mid 1960s, the Dalai Lama was impressed by ethically vegetarian
Indian monks and adopted a vegetarian diet for about a year and a half.
Apparently he consumed primarily nuts and milk. Unfortunately, he
contracted Hepatitis B and his liver was seriously damaged. For health
reasons, he was advised by his personal physicians to consume meat.
While he has eaten meat in moderation ever since, the Dalai Lama has
repeatedly acknowledged that a vegetarian diet is a worthy expression
of compassion and contributes to the cessation of the suffering of all
living beings. However, he eats meat only on alternate days (six months
a year). He is a semi-vegetarian, though he wishes to be a full one. By
making an example of cutting his meat consumption in half, he is trying
to gently influence his followers.
"While many of the great Tibetan teachers did and do eat animals, the
Dalai Lama has broken new ground by publicly stating his case for
vegetarianism. If we seriously consider the compassion inherent in His
Holiness’ advice and actions, Buddhist meat-eaters could similarly try
to eat vegetarian at least every other day to start out with. Since
Buddhists have taken vows not to kill, they should not support a
livelihood that makes others kill. Even if one does not have great
compassion for animals this would meritoriously save humans from
performing heinous deeds. The power of each human being becoming
vegetarian releases the most intense suffering of the animal realm—the
agony of factory-farmed animals. This profound action can help slow the
grinding wheels of samsara, bringing to a halt the cycles of suffering
of the entire animal realm and influencing their eventual liberation.
When animals are not just looked upon as creatures to fill our
stomachs, they can be seen as they really are—beings who have the same
Buddha nature as we all do."
- http://www.serv-online.org/Eileen-Weintraub.htm
"This Thanksgiving, staff of the Fund for Animals are thanking
the Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, for recent
statements in support of animal rights. In an audience with representatives
of The Fund for Animals earlier this month, the Dalai Lama commended
the animal rights movement for working to end the suffering of animals,
and urged everyone who can to adopt a vegetarian diet. Speaking
with The Fund for Animals' national director, Heidi Prescott, and
program coordinator, Norm Phelps, the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize recipient
said, "People think of animals as if they were vegetables,
and that isn't right. We have to change the way people think about
animals. I encourage the Tibetan people and all people to move toward
a vegetarian diet that doesn't cause suffering." His Holiness
also condemned the abuse and killing of animals for entertainment
purposes, such as the practice of hunting wild animals for sport.
The Dalai Lama invited the Fund for Animals to work with his government
in exile in India to help encourage people to become vegetarian
and to protect animals from suffering."
-AmeriScan: November 25, 1998
"According to Buddhist teaching, there is a very close interdependence
between the natural environment and the sentient beings living in
it. Some of my friends have told me that basic human nature is somewhat
violent, but I have told them I disagree. If we examine different
animals, such as tigers or lions, we learn that their basic nature
provides them with sharp fangs and claws. Peaceful animals, such
as deer, which are completely vegetarian, are more gentle and have
smaller teeth and no claws. From that viewpoint we human beings
have a nonviolent nature."
-Ecology and the Human Heart
"Whenever I visit a market and see the chickens crowded together
in tiny cages that give them no room to move around and spread their
wings and the fish slowly drowning in the air, my heart goes out
to them. People have to learn to think about animals in a different
way, as sentient beings who love life and fear death. I urge everyone
who can to adopt a compassionate vegetarian diet."
-In an audience granted to Norm Phelps and Heidi Prescott
of The Fund for Animals, Washington, D.C., November 10, 1998
"One day I went
to visit a small lake to offer food to the fish that we had previously
freed there. On my way back someone said, "By the way, did
you see the poultry farm?" All of a sudden I had a vision where
I saw large groups of chickens marching along carrying banners on
which it was written, "The Dalai Lama not only saves fish,
but even feeds them. What does he do for us poor chickens?"
I felt terribly sad and sorry for the chickens . . . We no longer
raise poultry in our settlements."
-The Dalai Lama, in Imagine All the People: A Conversation with
the Dalai Lama on Money, Politics, and Life as It Could Be
(pg. 30)
I do not see any reason why animals should be slaughtered to serve as
human diet when there are so many substitutes. After all, man can live
without meat. It is only some carnivorous animals that have to subsist
on flesh. Killing animals for sport, for pleasure, for adventures, and
for hides and furs is a phenomenon which is at once disgusting and
distressing. There is no justification in indulging in such acts of
brutality.
In our approach to life, be it pragmatic or otherwise, the ultimate
truth that confronts us squarely and unmistakably is the desire for
peace, security and happiness. Different forms of life in different
aspects of existence make up the teeming denizens of this earth of
ours. And, no matter whether they belong to the higher group as human
beings or to the lower group, the animals, all beings primarily seek
peace, comfort and security. Life is as dear to a mute creature as it
is to a man. Just as one wants happiness and fears pain, just as one
wants to live and not to die, so do other creatures.
- The Vegetarian
Way, 19th World Vegetarian Congress 1967
"For those people who can practice strict vegetarianism, that
is best. I was deeply impressed the other day when I heard on the
BBC radio that the number of vegetarians in this country (Great
Britain) is growing. This is good news."
-The Meaning of Life from a Buddhist Perspective (pg 72-73)
"Vegetarianism is very admirable. In the case of those living
in Tibet in the past, because of the climatic conditions and the
scarcity of green vegetables, it is perhaps understandable that
people generally adopted a non-vegetarian diet. Now, however, particularly
in countries where there is an abundance of fresh vegetables and
fruits, it is far better to reduce our consumption of non-vegetarian
food as much as possible."
-The World of Tibetan Buddhism (pg 111)
"I think that from a Buddhist point of view it is very important
to be vegetarian. I always say that even if on an individual level
one does not always manage to stick to a vegetarian diet, when large
numbers meet for a party, a conference, or any other gathering,
it is indispensable that the group avoids eating meat. As for myself,
I have tried my best to introduce vegetarianism to Tibetan society...
According
to Buddhism the life of all beings--human, animal or otherwise--is
precious, and all have the same right to happiness. For this reason, I
find it disgraceful that animals are used without being shown the
slightest compassion, and that they are used for scientific
experiments.
...I have also noticed that those who lack any compassion for animals
and who do not hesitate to kill them are also those who, sooner or
later, show a lack of compassion toward human beings. Inversely, the
more compassion we have toward animals, the more we regard their lives
as precious, then the more respect we have for human life."
-Beyond Dogma (pg 28)
"The suffering of animals is immediately apparent, for example,
in goats and lambs slaughtered by the butcher, unable to save their
own lives. Animals are harmless, they are totally powerless, possessing
nothing but the bit of water and food we give them. They are so
simple, so stupid, ignorant, and defenseless, that men really have
no right to hunt and kill them for food. Cows, horses, mules and
other animals have a dismal life and a dismal fate."
-Essential Teachings (pg 43)
"If
you adopt questionable methods to become richer, such as selling arms
or building poultry farms, then your livelihood becomes a source of
negative energy and karma. By investing your money in the poultry
industry, for example, you may become richer but at the expense of
other beings' lives...
Although from a spiritual point of view, we can say that human beings
are the most precious of all living beings, seen from other angles
we are the most destructive species our planet has known. Not only
do we create pain for other species-- the millions of fish, chickens,
cows and others we consider to be our righful food -- but we use
our intelligence even to plan the total destruction of the planet
on which we live!"
-The Dalai Lama on Money, Politics, and Life As It Could Be (pg
15, 29-30)
If you are paying particular attention to observing practices of
the three lower tantras it is important to maintain a vegetarian
diet. Although it was reasonable for Tibetans to eat meat in Tibet,
because of the climatic conditions and the scarcity of vegetables,
in countries where there are vegetables in abundance, it is far
better to avoid or reduce your consumption of meat. Particularly
when you invite many people to a party, it is good if you can provide
vegetarian food.
-A Survey of the Paths of Tibetan Buddhism
HE Kyabje Lati Pinpoche
is one of HH the Dalai Lama's spiritual advisers and the Root
Guru of Trijang Rinpoche Yangsi- Trijang Rinpoche is the present
Dalai Lama's junior tutor. This interview was conducted by Kunga
Nyima on 26 December 2000 at Sakyamuni Dharma Centre, Singapore.
Q: In recent years, we heard that there are
plans to convert the diet of the three great Gelugpa monasteries
into full vegetarianism. What is Rinpoche's view of this plan and
for that matter, for Buddhist monasteries in general, to become
full vegetarian?
A: I am happy the monastic authorities want to make this huge change.
That is really appreciable. I really support this type of change
coming up.
Q:Why does Rinpoche
feel that it is better to be vegetarian?
A:If the number of people who consume meat is reduced, it then automatically
reduces the number of people who kill the animals to meet the demand.
In this way, by becoming vegetarian, we contribute, to some extend,
the reduction in the number of animals killed.
Q:Why is it then in
old Tibet that the monasteries are rarely fully vegetarian?
A:In Tibet, there are many people who are strict vegetarian. Even
in the big monasteries where there are huge gatherings of monks,
they never eat non-vegetarian food. In the monk's individual quarters,
though, there might be some monks who eat meat as food.
Vegetarianism is something
not very new in Tibetan society. Generally, in the old Tibetan society,
most of the people try to avoid taking meat specifically killed
to feed individual person. This is evident in very level of Tibetan
society. Even in the scriptures of the Buddha, we have to avoid
taking such meat which is killed specially just to feed ourselves.
The texts prohibit us from taking this type of meat. That is the
common way of practice and instructions in the Buddha's teachings.
Especially in the Mahayana teachings when a person does intensive
practice of Bodhicitta, they are advised or prescribed to avoid
taking meat.
May all beings be free from fear, harm and danger.
May all beings be well and happy.
Send
your Comments & Queries to shian@ TheDailyEnlightenment.com
Visit the Vegetarian Society of Singapore: www.vegetarian-society.org
Copyright © 2003 by Shen Shian
I applaud those who promote vegetarianism and veganism. The issue on whether to be a vegan or vegetarian should be a personal one. Some crave for meat, some don't. You can only not want to eat meat when craving lessens.
thanks for the info though.
But I want to know did the Buddha ever said anything about being a vegetarian? did he uttered any word on this issue?
In Bible, God asking human beings to take good care of animals but after the Noah incident, human beings then allowed to take meat.
Similar in Buddhism, being vegetarian is an act of compassion, it is important in Mahayana.
so is eating meat considered as bad or bad karma created by eating meat?
Louis, yes, as I quoted above the Buddha have stated in a number of sutras about recommendation of not eating meat.
In fact there is an entire chapter on this in Lankatarava Sutra which you can find off the net.
This is a set of recommendations for aspiring Bodhisattvas (as Lankavatara sutra states, meat eating cuts the root of great compassion) and hence you only find them in Mahayana sutras.
Allow me the indulgence you of replying a few questions to refine my answers:-
1) Are you are Buddhist or aspiring to be one ?
2) Do you have a professed belief ?
3) How do you relate to animals, eg. are they capable of suffering ? Are they capable of feeling pain when you slaughter them for food. Are you able to empathise with them/
4) What is it that is bothering you that the above answers does not satisfy you?
5) What opinion do you have before posting and what is your present opinion?
Originally posted by Weychin:Allow me the indulgence you of replying a few questions to refine my answers:-
1) Are you are Buddhist or aspiring to be one ?
2) Do you have a professed belief ?
He is a Buddhist inclined to Theravada.
Originally posted by Louis dave36:so is eating meat considered as bad or bad karma created by eating meat?
Louis, it very much depends on which tradition you are inclined to. Vegetarianism is much stressed in Mahayana but it is seen differently in Theravada. Theravada Cannon does not have any Sutta or Vinaya rules that forbid meat to be consumed. However, the Buddha did make some conditions for meat to be eaten.
It's about being practical during the olden days. The monks who took the alms from the Laity cannot choose what they want to eat, and it would be very difficult to impose a vegetarian rule for both the Sangha and the Laity. This was the reason why the Buddha refused to implement the vegetarian rule when it was suggested by Devadatta, his cousin who tried to usurp the Sangha. (who died and went to Avicci hell after that).
Having said this, it cannot be seen that Theravada 'encourages' meat-eating. It just means " it's OK to consume meat and one does not have to beat his chest about it and thinks he has accumulated demerit and going to hell by doing so. There is a Sutta when the past Buddha debated with a vegetarian ascetics. I can give you the link if you want to read about it.
However, if becoming a vegetarian helps you in your practice of buddhism , why not? We all know vegetarianism is good for our health and our eco-system.Just don't get too attached to it.
I choose to be a vegetarian because I don't want another "LIFE" suffer and be kill just because of me.
I am not 100% vegetarian yet, but I feel if i manage to eat one less piece of meat, mean there will be one less killing.
Originally posted by Rodney 9
But I want to know did the Buddha ever said anything about being a vegetarian? did he uttered any word on this issue?
In the theravadin sutras vegetarianism is not mandatory. In fact during Buddha's time a huge conflict broke out between devadatta and Buddha. Devadatta wanted Buddha to imposed a dietary restriction of vegetarianism saying that it is only compassionate to do so. Hinduism and many vedic-based religion also encourages vegetarianism. If you go to south india you could hardly find any shop selling meat. You can but you have to travel very far. Devadatta lead away from Buddha a group of monks who were sympathetic to devadatta's position of vegetarianism.
Devadatta's purpose was done more out of jealousy than real compassion. He tried to kill Buddha shortly after the split.
Buddha then taught what we now call white meat.
Originally posted by Louis Dave 36 :
so is eating meat considered as bad or bad karma created by eating meat?
Buddha knew how we create karma and this was why white meat criteria was recommended. If we are a direct party to the killing of the animal then our karma would be heavy. If the meat is purchased off the shelf and the meat was not killed EXPLICITLY for us then the meat is just protein. Any mental projections we have on it is entirely from our delusions.
The karma created in consuming meat within a community setting is one of collective karma. Buddha did not teach explicitly or directly what collective karma could do to us but in several sutras, particularly the jatakas he did mentioned how a group of people taking a particular set of actions will also face group consequences. The slaughtering of his clansmen was a good example of collective karma.
By and large most collective karma, unless it is very grave such as mass murder or harming arahants, buddha, pacceka buddha etc. are very weak in nature. If I am not mistaken it came under the category of ahosi karma. These karma are very weak and its effects could easily be annulled by having kind and loving thoughts and actions.
Why was it that in mahayana sutras that vegetarianism was so actively promoted ? It goes to the heart of the practice that you use. Some mahayana deities emphasised strongly the heart energy and anything that promotes compassion - real or not- would help the practice. Mahayana practised if it does not promote vegetarianism would look hypocritical as a mahayanist took a vow to help all sentient beings. The 6 paramitta is the basis and path that is adopted for liberation. This is the path of service or bakti in hinduism.
Theravadin's path and basis is one of wisdom and compassion.
Having said this let me state that vegetarianism is a lot better for health than consuming meat. But vegetarianism practised wrongly will cause a lot of harm and I am speaking from experience here. Indian vegetarianism is very healthy and if chinese vegetarianism were to adopt some of the philosophy and foundation of ayurvedic vegetarian cooking the health of vegetarians would be a lot better. I have seen how many vegetarians are quite sickly mainly because they do not know how to choose their food correctly.
It was to Buddha's wisdom that he had allowed his followers to decide for themselves.
Originally posted by Sgforumposter:In the theravadin sutras vegetarianism is not mandatory. In fact during Buddha's time a huge conflict broke out between devadatta and Buddha. Devadatta wanted Buddha to imposed a dietary restriction of vegetarianism saying that it is only compassionate to do so. Hinduism and many vedic-based religion also encourages vegetarianism. If you go to south india you could hardly find any shop selling meat. You can but you have to travel very far. Devadatta lead away from Buddha a group of monks who were sympathetic to devadatta's position of vegetarianism.
Devadatta's purpose was done more out of jealousy than real compassion. He tried to kill Buddha shortly after the split.
Buddha then taught what we now call white meat.
Buddha knew how we create karma and this was why white meat criteria was recommended. If we are a direct party to the killing of the animal then our karma would be heavy. If the meat is purchased off the shelf and the meat was not killed EXPLICITLY for us then the meat is just protein. Any mental projections we have on it is entirely from our delusions.
The karma created in consuming meat within a community setting is one of collective karma. Buddha did not teach explicitly or directly what collective karma could do to us but in several sutras, particularly the jatakas he did mentioned how a group of people taking a particular set of actions will also face group consequences. The slaughtering of his clansmen was a good example of collective karma.
By and large most collective karma, unless it is very grave such as mass murder or harming arahants, buddha, pacceka buddha etc. are very weak in nature. If I am not mistaken it came under the category of ahosi karma. These karma are very weak and its effects could easily be annulled by having kind and loving thoughts and actions.
Why was it that in mahayana sutras that vegetarianism was so actively promoted ? It goes to the heart of the practice that you use. Some mahayana deities emphasised strongly the heart energy and anything that promotes compassion - real or not- would help the practice. Mahayana practised if it does not promote vegetarianism would look hypocritical as a mahayanist took a vow to help all sentient beings. The 6 paramitta is the basis and path that is adopted for liberation. This is the path of service or bakti in hinduism.
Theravadin's path and basis is one of wisdom and compassion.
Having said this let me state that vegetarianism is a lot better for health than consuming meat. But vegetarianism practised wrongly will cause a lot of harm and I am speaking from experience here. Indian vegetarianism is very healthy and if chinese vegetarianism were to adopt some of the philosophy and foundation of ayurvedic vegetarian cooking the health of vegetarians would be a lot better. I have seen how many vegetarians are quite sickly mainly because they do not know how to choose their food correctly.
It was to Buddha's wisdom that he had allowed his followers to decide for themselves.
Good information there. Thanks :P I find chinese vegetarian food a bit too oily and salty.
But I want to know did the Buddha ever said anything about being a vegetarian? did he uttered any word on this issue?--Rooney9
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however, as a mendicant, relying on alms, a monk cannot refuse what ever is offered, unless it was made known to the monk that the animal is slaughtered for his consumption.
yes Rooney9, and true, that it's difficult for the monk to refuse, however, they can still wash away the meat when they were brought back though. this i believe is at the later part of Buddha's "career" targeted toward the bodhisattva path.
Appreciation of the "Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra"
"Nirvana Sutra" on Vegetarianism
In the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, the Buddha gives his final instructions on the matter of vegetarianism, insisting that his followers should not eat meat or fish and that even vegetarian food that has been touched by meat should be washed before being eaten. If a meal is offered to a Buddhist monk or nun which contains a lot of meat, then it is not permissible for the monk or nun just to pick out the non-meat portions and leave the rest: the whole meal must be rejected - so strictly does the Buddha wish his injunction against meat-eating to be upheld.
Here is the whole relevant section – a mini-seminar between the Buddha and his Bodhisattva follower, “Maha-kasyapaika-gotra” - on vegetarianism, from the Tibetan version of the Mahaparinirvana Sutra:
Then Maha-Kasyapaika-gotra asked, “If it is very important to uphold the
impropriety of meat-eating, would it not then be wrong to give meat to those
who do not want meat?”
[The Buddha replied:] “Excellent, noble son, excellent! You have understood
my intention. One who protects the authentic Dharma should not do that.
Noble son, henceforth I do not permit my sravakas [disciples] to eat meat. If I
have said that [one should view] the country’s alms-food as the flesh of one’s
son, how could I permit the eating of meat? I teach that the eating of meat
cuts off Great Loving-kindness [maha-maitri].”
“Blessed One, why did you permit the eating of meat that was blameless in
three respects?”
“Because I stipulated these three types of blameless as a provisional basis of
training; I now discard them.”
“Blessed One, what was your intention in talking of the ninefold great benefit
and the abandoning of the ten types of meat?”
“Because those pronouncements were stipulated to restrict the eating of
meat; they are also withdrawn.”
“Blessed One, what was your intention in stating that meat and fish are
wholesome foodstuffs?”
“I did not say that meat and fish are wholesome foodstuffs, but I have said
that sugar-cane, winter-rice, ordinary rice, wheat, barley, green lentils,
black lentils, molasses, sugar, honey, ghee, milk and sesame oil are
wholesome foodstuffs. If I have taught that even the various garments for
covering the body should be dyed an unattractive colour, then how much
more so [i.e. undesirable] attachment to the taste of meat foods!”
“In that case, does it not follow that the five milk products, sesame, sesame
oil, sugar-cane sap, conch-shell, silk and so forth also violate the precepts?”
“Don’t cleave to the views of the Nirgranthas [Jains]! I have imposed the
bases of training upon you with a different intention: I stipulate that you
should not even eat meat blameless in the three respects. Even those
meats other than the ten [previously forbidden] kinds should be abandoned.
The meat of corpses should also be abandoned. All creatures sense the odour
and are frightened by meat-eaters, no matter if they are moving around or
resting. If a person eats asafoetida or garlic, everybody else feels
uncomfortable and alienated – whether in a crowd of many people or in the
midst of many creatures, they all know that that person has eaten them.
Similarly, all creatures can recognise a person who eats meat and, when they
catch the odour, they are frightened by the terror of death. Wherever that
person roams, the beings in the waters, on dry land or in the sky are
frightened. Thinking that they will be killed by that person, they even swoon
or die. For these reasons, Bodhisattva-mahasattvas do not eat meat.
Even though they may appear to eat meat on account of those to be
converted, since they do not actually eat ordinary food, then how much less
so meat! Noble son, when many hundreds of years have elapsed after I have
gone, there will be no stream-enterers, once-returners, non-returners or
arhats. In the age of the Dharma’s decline, there will be monks who preserve
the vinaya and abhidharma and who have a multitude of rituals, but who also
look after their physical well-being, who highly esteem various kinds of meat,
whose humours are disturbed, who are troubled by hunger and thirst, whose
clothing looks a fright, who have robes with splashes of colour like a cowherd
or a fowler, who behave like cats, who assert that they are arhats, who are
pained by many hurts, whose bodies will be soiled with their own faeces and
urine, who dress themselves well as though they were sages [munis], who
dress themselves as sramanas [ascetic wanderers], though they are not,
and who hold spurious writings to be the authentic Dharma. These people
destroy what I have devised – the vinaya, rites, comportment and the
authentic utterances that free and liberate one from attachment to what is
improper, selecting and reciting passages from each of the sutras according
to their inclinations. Thus there will appear [bogus] sramanas, sons of
Shakyamuni [the Buddha], who will claim that, ‘According to our vinaya, the
Blessed One has said that alms of meat-stuffs are acceptable’ and who will
concoct their own [scriptures] and contradict each other.
“Moreover, noble son, there will also be those who accept raw cereals, meat
and fish, do their own cooking and [stock-pile] pots of sesame oil; who
frequent leather-makers, parasol-makers and royalty …
The person I call a monk is one who abandons those things.”
“Blessed One, what should be done by monks, nuns, upasakas [male lay
followers of Buddhism] and upasikas [female lay followers of Buddhism],
who depend upon what is offered to them, to purify alms-food that contains
meat in such places where the food has not been verified?”
“Noble son, I have taught that it does not contradict the vinaya in any way if
they wash it [i.e. the non-meat food] with water and then eat it. If it appears
that the food in such places contains a lot of prepared meat, it should be
rejected. There is no fault if one vessel touches another but the food is not
actually mixed together. I say that even meat, fish, game, dried hooves and
scraps of meat left over by others constitute an infraction. Previously,I taught
this in cases arising from the needs of the situation. Now, on this occasion, I
teach the harm arising from meat-eating. Being the time when I shall pass
into Parinirvana, this is a comprehensive declaration.”
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