Someone asked me in MSN, how do you link the I AMness with Mind not inner, nor outer, nor in-between according to Shurangama Sutra.
He has logged off before I replied, and my reply is pretty long to be written in MSN so I thought of posting it here.
The I Amness is a powerful insight and glimpse of Mind. You experience and understand intuitively that this Mind is not the same as your body, your environment, or your thoughts. So when you realise this, you'll understand what Shurangama Sutra say that the Mind is not located in the body, outside the body, in between, or anywhere at all.
With the insight of I AMness, you no longer locate Mind as an atomic entity located somewhere in your head, your body, or elsewhere. Rather, Mind is like a vast field/opening of emptiness and pure awareness in which everything else arise, stays abit, and subsides. And because you Contain the world, you are not located 'in' the world. And this Mind, which isn't an object that arise and subside, itself is unborn and undying. It never moves. It has no coming nor going. Ten thousand things past through, it is unaffected and always IS. It is not just void and formless, it is also endowed with clear cognizance and presence. It is that which sees and witnesses these arising and passing (objects, thoughts, phenomena) but isn't itself affected by one bit of it. The Mind that you have now, and the Mind you realise when you attain Buddhahood, is still this Mind. Buddha has not gained it, sentient beings have not lost it, just not recognised it. So searching elsewhere for Buddha is the outer-path, realising your Mind is awakening.
However at this level of awakening there is still the tendency to divide Mind from all other objects. When you realise that all objects are not separate from this One Mind, this Mind is then experienced as ALL that are experienced -- all forms, all sounds, all taste, touch, smells, thoughts, appear as the luminous display of this One Mind. You do not feel separate as a witness of this display, you realise that the witness is not other than all these display that are the luminous display of your nature without inner or outer, subject and object division. In hearing, the sound hears, no separate hearer. In seeing, the scenery sees, no separate seer. This is the realisation of non-duality. Awareness is seen as unborn and undying, not identified with any particular object, it is non-local (not located in the head or anywhere) but is actually a field of knowing that is none other than all these display itself arising moment to moment. When you realise that, the sensation of being inside your body, or somewhere in the head disappears completely, you no longer feel that you are someone inside your body/head looking out at the world - leaving just the world as it is, which is none other than the Mind's display, Mind experiencing itself as everything. The container-contained dichotomy dissolves.
Then there is also the realisation of anatta and emptiness. See On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection
Nice ... can explain such cheem cheem theory ...see how fortunate sgforummers is...
:)
Originally posted by bohiruci:Nice ... can explain such cheem cheem theory ...see how fortunate sgforummers is...
:)
It's 'chim' only when the mind tries to comprehend things in terms of theories and concepts (and it will utterly fail because Mind is not an object and is totally ungraspable)... but what is the perceiver of these thoughts?
Just look within, turn the light around, and see your real nature as it is :) The Mind that is spoken here is not a mysterious object waiting to be found. It has no form, no shape, no colour, but in it the entire universe manifest. Never think that it is far away. You have never been separated from it at any moment. It is what you already are, and what everything is.
Is Shurangama sutra expounded by the Buddha?
"The Shurangama Sutra Is Definitely Authentic"
by the Venerable Tripitaka Master Hsuan Hua
(A talk given on January 21, 1978)
Translated by the Buddhist Text Translation Society
Recently, some Ph.D.'s and scholars have criticized the Shurangama Sutra. They claim it was invented by later generations and not spoken by Shakyamuni Buddha. They have spread this rumor and tried to destroy this Sutra, causing Buddhists who lack true understanding to doubt. These people, who stir up a fuss by repeating what others say, are truly pathetic.
Today, I will vouch for the authenticity of the Shurangama Sutra before the assembly. Not only the Shurangama Sutra, but also the Shurangama Mantra is authentic. The Shurangama Sutra is the Buddha's "true body" and the Buddha's sharira; no one can destroy it. If the Shurangama Sutra exists, then the Proper Dharma exists. If the Shurangama Sutra ceases to exist, then the Proper Dharma will also vanish. If the Shurangama Sutra is inauthentic, then I vow to fall into the Hell of Pulling Tongues to undergo uninterrupted suffering.
In the future, I hope that everyone will use their Dharma-selecting vision and not follow any careless Ph.D.'s or irresponsible scholars who do research on how the Shurangama Sutra is counterfeit. Don't let that rubbish influence you. Use your samadhi power to turn those states around. Why do some people claim that the Shurangama Sutra is false? Because their minds are not clear. They don't want the Proper Dharma to remain in the world. Instead of telling people to cultivate, they try to destroy the Dharma.
The Shurangama Sutra says, "If one doesn't cut off lust, one won't be able to leave the dust." This sentence alone is enough to prove that this Sutra is definitely and beyond a shadow of doubt the wonderful doctrine spoken by the Buddha. If one doesn't cast out thoughts of lust, one cannot transcend the Three Realms. If one doesn't cut off desire and love, it's impossible to attain the fruition of sagehood.
The Shurangama Sutra also says, "Trying to cultivate samadhi without cutting off lust is like cooking sand trying to obtain rice. It can't be done." If we contemplate the truth of this, we will know where the Treasury of the Proper Dharma Eye lies.
A genuine Buddhist will most assuredly support and protect the Shurangama Sutra and recite and uphold the Shurangama Mantra. From personal experience, I knowthat this Mantra's power is inconceivable.
I repeat my vow in order to emphasize that the Shurangama Sutra is an authentic, not a counterfeit, Sutra. If I am mistaken, then I vow to fall into the Hell of Pulling Tongues. I hope everyone is clear on this issue. Hold proper views and don't disappoint me!
Very good video related to the topic I just found.
Just a reminder for forummers who may find this confusing: this is not about concepts or figuring out or understanding what this means. This is not about meaning, this is about who you truly are, and this cannot be understood through a theory but by your own direct experience through self-inquiry and investigation.
Don't try to mentally understand reality/awareness/buddha-nature/Mind, whatever you want to call it. Thoughts can never figure out the true nature of Mind, Awareness. However humans have from beginingless time have gained the habit to try to understand things using the mind. This is not about bashing the intellect or the mind -- it works wonders in life and is something we can't do without, and even as I write this I am using thoughts, but nevertheless what I am pointing out is that the mind is the wrong, irrelevant tool for Self-Knowledge. If you want to know your true nature, (fixation on) thoughts is an obscuration because then, you're lost in the realm of objects, thoughts, ideas, trying to figure things out in the realm of thoughts, where you really should be turning within towards its source. It's not about having the right thought, it's about, what is aware of that thought? When you look within and have a good look at yourSelf, you realise you have always been the Source, never separated from It. It never needed to be figured out by the mind. It isn't a puzzle to be solved. Even if you think you solved an intellectual puzzle concerning the teachings, reality, etc, does that mean anything in terms of truly resolving with conviction what your real nature is? Nope. If you recognise this yourself, then it's all clear as a cloudless sun lit sky, no explanation is needed. Otherwise, 10000 explanations is not enough.
During the course of self-inquiry, thoughts may come up, but is naturally negated and then dropped as a result of persistent investigation. As Rupert Spira says, "The very best that the mind can do is to explore its own limits and come to the conclusion that it does not and cannot know what anything really is."
We don't resolve the confusion of the mind by dealing with the mind, trying to replace one confused concept with clearer concepts. Whatever concepts we have, are simply thoughts arising and subsiding, nothing to cling to. The end of ignorance is not by having a clearer concept, rather, it is to cease all false identifications, including to all concepts, thoughts, feelings, body, etc. This is achieved only by clear knowing of our true nature, by realising what you truly are, and nothing less. And in case you think that since the answer isn't found in the mind, that it should therefore be found in thoughtlessness, that's not it either. No experience, even the experience of thoughtlessness, is going to resolve this. Self-realisation does not mean you cannot have thoughts, feelings, etc, (and you may be a master at entering deep meditative states without thoughts, but nevertheless it's impossible to not have them in daily living for practical purpose) it's just that you no longer identify yourself as those thoughts, concepts, feelings, etc, and thus life flow through more smoothly because you no longer grasp and chase after those phantoms. Then, whether you have thoughts or not is no longer an issue. Thoughts are just part and parcel of reality, no different from what you see, what you hear, etc. No need to reject any part of them.
Thoughts emanate out of the clear thoughtless, formless consciousness that underlies and gives rise to all thoughts and all forms. The objects that are perceived through consciousness can never grasp it's source. Thoughts can never grasp or know it's source. Thoughts are themselves objects perceived by and through consciousness. Only Consciousness knows, for IT is the all-knowing power. Consciousness perceives and manifests as thoughts, but thoughts don't perceive consciousness. Only The Source, Pure Consciousness knows itself.
What is the source of thoughts? What is it in you, that is the source of all your whole world (thoughts, feelings, sensory perceptions), without which nothing is? Know your innate luminosity that is the source of everything, by turning the light around and just be.
When we turn within, we won't find a particular object that we could point to and say, 'ah, that is Awareness' (all objects are displayed in and as awareness but awareness is not limited to/by any one object) -- for whatever objects perceived through awareness is not itself the all-perceiving Awareness -- so instead of finding an object which we can see, we actually discover our original nature as vast luminous space encompassing the entire universe. The Seer cannot be seen (for what's seen are objects seen by the Seer), but in it, everything is perceived. It's all-encompassing. It's not that it's 'everywhere in the universe' (it's not objective), but rather, the 'everywhere' is itself occuring in and as the all-encompassing Consciousness. Don't get stuck at any states and experiences and inquire relentlessly, 'to whom is this occuring?', 'Who is aware?', 'Who am I?' -- the purpose of this is not to answer it by concepts, otherwise it will lose its purpose, which is to look within than get stuck on the level of thoughts and experience. By the way to say that Awareness is a 'Seer' is not exactly right, because eventually the Witness will dissolve into all that is witnessed, or rather the practitioner realises that the Witness is not other than whatever is witnessed. There is just One Witnessing, not divided into witness/witnessed. However the first step is to first recognise and realise the I AM, the Witness.
This is actually so simple, direct, and close (not in a sense of short distance, but in a sense of having NO distance at all) and intimate: it is what you already are. Any attempt to grasp it is to miss the point: when you're already at the North Pole, any movement towards anywhere is a movement away from that center. Any seeking (to understand, to experience, etc) is a movement away from what we already are. When we realise what we are, we see why we've been missing it: it's too simple and direct. This is why it's constantly overlooked, because the mind is always 'looking outwards', even when it comes to spirituality -- still trying to figure out a way to understand or experience It (whatever it is seeking), while all the while going in the wrong directions -- looking Away from the True Source. It is because of our constant identification and fixation on our thoughts, feelings and perceptions, that we do not notice what has been always and already here.
Also... by attempting to mentally comprehend reality, we have reduced the ungraspable living reality it into a dead concept, an object of grasping, which is an illusion. A passage from the 6th Patriarch Hui-Neng's Platform Sutra came to my mind:
"One day the Master said to the congregation, "I have something with no head, no tail, no name, no label, no back, no front: do you recognize it?"
Shen-hui came forth and said, "This is the original source of all buddhas, my buddha-nature."
The Master said, "I just told you it has no name or label; then you immediately call it the original source, the buddha-nature. Later on, when you have a bunch of thatch covering your head, you will still just be a follower of intellectual understanding.""
Seeing the utter futility of the mind with regards to self-knowledge, keep the advise by Tilopa in mind:
Let go of the past.
Let go of the future.
Let go of the present.
Do not analyze.
Do not meditate.
Just be.
I hope the readers haven't learnt anything from this, but dropped everything. May the clouds of ignorance dissipate in all sentient beings and the pure sun of Awareness reveal itself.
“So many words you have learnt, so many you have spoken. You know everything, but you do not know yourself. For the self is not known through words, only direct insight will reveal it. Look within, search within.” – Nisargadatta Maharaj
“Here, form is emptiness and emptiness is form.
Here is no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue.
Here is no birth or decay or death.
Therefore the Bodhisattva ceases to tremble,
For what could go wrong?”
(‘To Be and not To Be’, p.171)
“Ten thousand times, O Holy One, I have recited your precious words announcing that form is emptiness. Ten thousand times! But the forms that this despicable monk comes across are full. Bark encloses solid timber, right to the heart of the tree. Broken stones turn out to be stone all through. Wounded men are plainly made of flesh and blood. Even empty pots are brim-full of air.”
(Ibid. p.172)
The compassionate Buddha promises to equip Chiao with his own “specimen form that is plainly empty” that will always be to hand, with many clues that will point the monk to it, even though others will not see it. Chiao is understandably overwhelmed with this enlightening gift, for as a Buddhist monk he would love to realize that which so many have failed to grasp over the many centuries since the Buddha had walked the Earth. Moreover, the Buddha arranges for Chiao’s eyes, ears, tongue and nose to be amputated, in line with the passage from the Heart Sutra quoted above. Although reassured that this will be beneficial and not painful at all, doubts remain in Chiao, in that he cannot comprehend exactly how his sample emptiness could be or contain anything without ceasing to be empty. In reply to the monk’s query, the Buddha reassures him with the following words:
“Only give it a trial, Chiao, and you’ll find it all makes good sense. Just now it may sound to you quite impossible, but I promise that you will be able clearly to see that your own absolutely speckles Void contains innumerable forms. Or rather that it is those forms, which are infinite in number and scope and variety. Your own personal parcel of emptiness, though small enough for you to handle all over, will be visibly packed with the blazingly colorful, gigantic, rip-roaring world. And therefore as big, if not bigger, than that world.”
(Ibid. p.173)
Here, the Buddha talks of how Nirvana is realized in the midst of Samsara, and that beyond the world of opposites they in fact merge into the seamlessness that is enlightenment. This Void contains all that is experienced, and because it is void of any separate substance, it is the very objects and processes that appear in it. On top of all this excellent news the Buddha reveals that wherever the monk goes he will be able to see the dissolving of duality whenever he chooses to observe the facts of the present moment. Chiao, however, has one more thing that troubles him regarding this matter, which is that the sutra states that there is no decay or death, and yet to his dismay he notices that he is made of “very perishable stuff indeed.” Indeed, the next morning when he awakes, the dream remains just a dream, and he fails to notice the “specimen form that is plainly empty” that the Buddha had promised would be his. He laments this to the novice Tsung who suggests that perhaps Chiao already possesses the boons offered in the dream, but that he fails to see them. The latter dismisses this idea as nonsense, preparing to recite the Heart Sutra for the ten-thousandth-and-first time, apparently incapable or unwilling of taking heed of the Buddha’s final words to him the night before:
“Instantly on waking, everything I have promised shall be yours, on these conditions. You must really want it, and you must let it in, open yourself to it, actually look at it and look out of it, instead of thinking about it and believing in it. In actual fact, it’s already yours anyway, unconditionally, whether you choose to let it in or not.”
(Ibid. p.175)
This charming tale of Douglas Harding’s
is beautiful in its simplicity, which is most suitable when realizing
the simplicity of the message it contains. This message hinges on the
last quotation above, in which the emphasis is put on opening up to the
way it is right now, focusing solely on the emptiness that lies at the
heart of one’s being. But is Chiao correct in his assumption that this
is no more than a pleasant dream, and that clinging to doctrines and
rituals is more likely to lead to spiritual awakening than simply paying
attention? Thanks to Douglas Harding, we neither have to rely on
“thinking about it and believing in it” or disbelieving in it. We can
test the hypothesis presented in this salient story by using techniques
invented and promoted by a man that I was privileged to have met on
several occasions. He was someone not so much full of himself, but full
of the world, and because of this his words (and ‘experiments’) are all
the more worthy of our attention.
Douglas Harding often used the word ‘experiment’ to describe his style of investigation into what he called “seeing who I really, really am.” These experiments do not require a laboratory or tertiary knowledge of the sciences; they do require an open mind, however, for if conducted in the shadow of long-held views & opinions, their results may well be misunderstood. Let’s start with one of the most basic experiments developed by Douglas, usually referred to, for reasons that will become obvious, ‘the Pointing Experiment’:
Do you get it, dear reader? At heart, you do not exist; instead there is a void that’s full of the world: “Form is emptiness, and emptiness is form.” The objects and creatures, not to mention people, that you encounter exist in the light of this naked awareness, that itself is not a thing as such, and was therefore described by Douglas as ‘No-thing.’ Everything lives in this knowing, which itself is simply capacity for things and processes to occur in, without any sense of individuality or separateness. (Of course, unless this awareness is completely surrendered to, the sense of self will continually be reborn, with what Douglas referred to as a ding-dong battle between selflessness & selfishness.) One objection to all this may be that it is centered on the sense of sight, and anything dependent upon a particular sense cannot lead to true spiritual freedom. A second experiment might help to answer this apparently powerful argument: ‘The Listening Experiment’:
Again, as with visual data, does not the nature of sounds differ to that which hosts them, in that the sounds have specific qualities, whilst the emptiness only finds form in the arising of audible things? This silence has the same (lack of) qualities that we noticed with the pointing experiment; it is the knowing that accepts all sounds for what they are, neither liking nor disliking them, but simply being the spaciousness in which they find expression. (It is the ego that has likes & dislikes, and that too can be seen to exist in the context of this naked awareness.) Alongside vision & hearing, the third focus for these short series of experiments will be thoughts themselves:
Here, thoughts are seen as so many mental mirages appearing and disappearing in the quiet space that sees them. It is emptiness itself, the capacity for things & processes to occur in, and yet no division can be detected at all – it is the thoughts that it contains. If emotions are observed in the same manner, they too can be seen to exist in this dispassionate void, as can the remaining physical senses of taste, touch, and smell. All phenomena can be experienced as arising in this formless, soundless, and thoughtless awareness, that, paradoxically is the very things that occur in it, as no separation can be found. And, in this transcendence of one’s self that includes all others, genuine happiness and compassion can be found. A happiness that is not the result of certain people’s actions or particular events taking place, but a quiet bliss that accompanies experience, and a compassion that is independent of the biases of the personality, but which goes out to any being in need that is encountered.
If all this sounds way too good to be true, or just a bunch of airy-fairy ‘spiritual’ talk, the challenge is to try it out. Do the experiments described above, taking as much time as you need to see what they are getting at, and then take that awareness and apply it to everyday life. Don’t be like Chiao, who knows every word of the Heart Sutra by heart, but has no inkling of how to apply its teachings to his life. In doing so, you may find that ‘Buddha Space’ to which this blog’s title partially refers; at the very least, you’ll have a new & interesting mindfulness practice to experiment with. You might even be surprised what you can achieve without any ‘you’ to get in the way, engrossed in the realization that “emptiness is form and form is emptiness.”
'To Be and not To Be, that is the answer' by Douglas Harding can be obtained from The Headless Way website, a link to which can be found to the right of this page.
"Mind is like a vast field/opening of emptiness and pure awareness in which everything else arise, stays abit, and subsides. And because you Contain the world, you are not located 'in' the world. And this Mind, which isn't an object that arise and subside, itself is unborn and undying. It never moves. It has no coming nor going."
In vipassana meditation, we are supposed to note body, feelings, thoughts and dhammas or mental objects. We note anything that passes through our 5 senses and mind without grasping. Just noting the rising and falling phenomenon of thoughts and sensations as impermanent, unsatisfactory and not self. That means we try to disidentify from these conditioned phenomenon and get into pure awareness without making any mental commentaries or judgements. ie. being aware just like a hotel owner watching guests coming and leaving the hotel. The "guests" are not the owner. One just watches feelings as feelings and thoughts as thoughts without clinging.
In a way the process of letting go is supposed to remove the defilements/kilesas bit by bit and uncover the naked awareness free from greed, hatred and delusion.
Originally posted by Pegembara:In vipassana meditation, we are supposed to note body, feelings, thoughts and dhammas or mental objects. We note anything that passes through our 5 senses and mind without grasping. Just noting the rising and falling phenomenon of thoughts and sensations as impermanent, unsatisfactory and not self. That means we try to disidentify from these conditioned phenomenon and get into pure awareness without making any mental commentaries or judgements. ie. being aware just like a hotel owner watching guests coming and leaving the hotel. The "guests" are not the owner. One just watches feelings as feelings and thoughts as thoughts without clinging.
In a way the process of letting go is supposed to remove the defilements/kilesas bit by bit and uncover the naked awareness free from greed, hatred and delusion.
Hi Pegembara, welcome. I don't find any problem with your approach. It is important to first realise the naked pure awareness behind all experiences, the I AM. However, I do not consider this as Vipassana in the traditional Pali sutta or Mahasi Sayadaw approach. (the Thai forest tradition approach is a little different)
This is something I addressed to Emanrohe in the thread On Tibetan Buddhism. And also The Three Speed Transmission
The approach you are talking about is not the 1st Gear practice of Vipassana/Shamatha, but rather it is the 2nd Gear practice: Abiding as I AM/Witness or practicing Self-Inquiry of Who am I?
In this approach one lets go, sometimes with the aid of seeing phenomena's impermanence, and then as a result, disidentifying with all transient phenomena and as a result of letting go of our pinpointed fixation on objects (guests), one discovers oneself as not the guests but the Host, which isn't an object but this vast, unlimited luminous aware space behind All experiences and witnessing all experiences.
At this stage, though one feels a sense of freedom and release from identification to finite objects, there is still a duality between the Witness and the Witnessed. One hasn't gone beyond identification to this vast space to realise the non-duality of awareness and forms.
When one realises that the Witness isn't separate but is not other than all that is Witnessed, this is then realising Non-Duality, and one transitions to the 3rd Gear. Pure Awareness is no longer seen as 'behind' experiences, but arises AS the passing sound, the sight, the thoughts. The duality between guest and host is transcended.
The person who practices 2nd Gear, realises the I AM, can then move on to realise non-duality, but the 2nd and 3rd gear is not the same thing.
Similarly when we practice the 1st Gear of the classical Shamatha/Vipassana, awareness is still dualistic (a sense of standing back, watching), but when one gets to the Anagami stage, one realises non-duality. So all approaches eventually will result in Non Dual realisation if one practices rightly and have the right views. However, the approach is a little different, for example if you practice 1st Gear you may not have the I AM insight, but you will experience a moment of Fruition/Cessation when you reach Sotapanna. The 1st Gear emphasize investigating the nature of phenomena to attain progressive and developmental stages of insights (the 16 nanas), the 2nd Gear emphasize on realising one's nature as this vast witnessing presence, the I AM, and abiding in this timeless, non-developmental, ever-present I AMness behind all experiences.
Anyway my post to Emanrohe elaborates more.
I should also note that the realisation of non-duality (third gear) is also not the final realisation, as explained in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
Thank you for your kind attention and advice.