Originally posted by Fantagf:Thanks. Where is 净宗 originate from? Actually, i am still confused about å�—æ— é˜¿å¼¥é™€ä½› and buddhism. It is like christianity with so many different denominstions.
I know there is recorded å�—æ— é˜¿å¼¥é™€ä½› free of charge. Could we get it from temples? Any place to get a different tune of å�—æ— é˜¿å¼¥é™€ä½›? The common one we hear is sometimes used for funeral.
Whatever we know about Buddhism are all originated from Buddha (Shakyamuni). For example, how do we know there are Kuan Shi Yin Pusa or Amitabha? We know because Buddha told us about their existence.
Amitabha has 2 "assistance" (disciples), one of them is Goddess of Mercy (Kuan Shi Yin Pusa) and the other is 大势至pusa. You will always see Goddess of Mercy on the left hand side of Amitabha and 大势至pusa on Amitabha's right hand side. Goddess of Mercy address Amitabha her master (师父).
Below are the many versions of chanting Amitabha :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE3nqWY83z8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcsBDv0G0hU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X1bocwr4C0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcg2ePRZ4EM&feature=related
Choose one of the version that suits you, I like the first version. The first version here is not so nice, there are nicer one but could not find at the website.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:So far I have not come across anybody who chants Amitabha died of a sudden death. Most of them die of old age or sickness, meaning there is still chance to recite Amitabha's name at deathbed. Like Master Chin Kong said, he witnessed many people who chant Amitabha, they are able to live and foretell their family members when Amitabha will be coming to fetch them to Pureland.
We always pray to Amitabha to bless us that we remain concious till our last breath. This prayer can be seen in some of scriptures but cannot recall exactly which scripture.
It does not matter if the person die of a sudden death or been converted to other religion at his last breath. As long as he chant Amitabha regularly, these happenings will not affect his chances to be born in Amitabha's Pureland.
Sorry, correction for the last paragragh to avoid misunderstandings.Should read as :
or been converted to other religion unwillingly at his last breath.
but Theravada tradition does not believe in Amitabha Buddha and other Pusa.
Originally posted by Rooney9:but Theravada tradition does not believe in Amitabha Buddha and other Pusa.
I do not know much about Theravada tradition. I think it is not that they do not believe, it is that they do not practice. There are many scriptures on Amitabha. Buddha told his disciples about Amitabha's Pureland. So, as long as Theravada tradition belongs to Buddhism, they will believe every word that Buddha said.
Master Chin Kong is also practicing 净宗.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
I do not know much about Theravada tradition. I think it is not that they do not believe, it is that they do not practice. There are many scriptures on Amitabha. Buddha told his disciples about Amitabha's Pureland. So, as long as Theravada tradition belongs to Buddhism, they will believe every word that Buddha said.Master Chin Kong is also practicing 净宗.
Many Theravadins do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic, since it is not found in their Pali canon which is the original set of scriptures that are passed down from Ananda's times.
I also addressed the issue here: Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha?
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Many Theravadins do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic, since it is not found in their Pali canon which is the original set of scriptures that are passed down from Ananda's times.
I also addressed the issue here: Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha?
What is Theravada tradition in Chinese ? What I understand is there are 3 main traditions (å�—ä¼ (Sri Lanka, Thailand,Vietnam etc),è—�ä¼ (Tibetian)ï¼ŒåŒ—ä¼ (China,Korea etc. Amitabha's Pureland is one from åŒ—ä¼ ). When Buddhism spread to China, only part of the sutras (大乘) were adopted. I understand that likewise for other places, only part of the sutras spread to å�—ä¼ and è—�ä¼ .
In these 2 sutras 阿密陀ç»�andæ— é‡�寿ç»�, it recorded the conversations between Buddha and Ananda. Buddha was telling Ananda about Amitabha's Pureland and how to practice in order to be reborn in Pureland.
I understand that Buddha spoke of different traditions is to allow us to choose the one that suits us because everybody has different level of wisdom.
Unlike other religion, Buddhists are free to go to any temples of different traditions. Meaning those who practice 净宗 is free to go to å�—ä¼ or è—�ä¼ temples.
I have amazing experience with Amitabha, thus strongly believe in Pureland.
Followings are interesting cartoons showing Buddha talking to his disciples about Amitabha's Pureland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8RoOnxrelw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl_428NBwWk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvNF_nU5R9Y&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oV47QAYaFQ&feature=related
Buddhists wish to be reborn in Amitabha's Pureland is because that place has no temptation and no sufferings, thus it is easier to attain nirvana.
I believe in rebirth.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Many Theravadins do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic, since it is not found in their Pali canon which is the original set of scriptures that are passed down from Ananda's times.
I also addressed the issue here: Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha?
It is true that many Theravada Buddhists do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic.
Let me quote this passage from 'What Buddhists Believe' by Venerable Dr K Sri Dhammananda (4th Edition).
"...Although Theravada Buddhists respect Bodhisatvas, they do not regard them as being in the position to enlighten or save others before their own enlightenment. Bodhisatvas are, therefore, not regarded as saviours in a spiritual sense. In order to gain their final salvation, all beings must follow the method prescribed by the Buddha and follow the example set by Him. They must also personally eradicate their mental defilements and develop all the great virtues: no one can give them salvation.
Theravada Buddhists do not subscribe to the belief that everyone must strive to become a Buddha in order to gain Nirvana. However, the 'Bodhi' is used to refer to the qualities of a Buddha, or Pacceka Buddha and Arahant in expressions such as Samma Sam Bodhi, Pacceka Bodhi and Savaka Bodhi.
In addition, many of the Buddhas mentioned in the Mahayana school are not historical Buddhas and are therefore not given much attention by Theravada Buddhists.
The notion that certain Buddhas and Bodhisatvas are waiting in Sukhavati (Pure Land) for those who pray is a notion quite foreign to the fundamental Teachings of the Buddha. Certain Bodhisattvas are said to voluntarily remain in Sukhavati, without gaining enlightenment themselves, until every living being is saved. Given the magnitude of the universe and the infinite number of beings who are enslaved by ignorance and selfish desire, this is clearly an impossible task, since there can be no end to the number of beings in the whole universe.
...The belief of some people that the Bodhisatvas exist in a particular world system as some sort of divine beings is not consistent with the teaching of the Buddha. Bodhisatvas exist in any part of the world by cultivating the great virtues and precepts in order to gain enlightenment. They generally do so as human beings."
- Pg 29 and 30, Life and Message of the Buddha
To me, the above passage can or may have the effect of persuading a new Buddhist not to consider the Pureland teachings seriously.
Originally posted by Spnw07:It is true that many Theravada Buddhists do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic.
Let me quote this passage from 'What Buddhists Believe' by Venerable Dr K Sri Dhammananda (4th Edition).
"...Although Theravada Buddhists respect Bodhisatvas, they do not regard them as being in the position to enlighten or save others before their own enlightenment. Bodhisatvas are, therefore, not regarded as saviours in a spiritual sense. In order to gain their final salvation, all beings must follow the method prescribed by the Buddha and follow the example set by Him. They must also personally eradicate their mental defilements and develop all the great virtues: no one can give them salvation.
Theravada Buddhists do not subscribe to the belief that everyone must strive to become a Buddha in order to gain Nirvana. However, the 'Bodhi' is used to refer to the qualities of a Buddha, or Pacceka Buddha and Arahant in expressions such as Samma Sam Bodhi, Pacceka Bodhi and Savaka Bodhi.
In addition, many of the Buddhas mentioned in the Mahayana school are not historical Buddhas and are therefore not given much attention by Theravada Buddhists.
The notion that certain Buddhas and Bodhisatvas are waiting in Sukhavati (Pure Land) for those who pray is a notion quite foreign to the fundamental Teachings of the Buddha. Certain Bodhisattvas are said to voluntarily remain in Sukhavati, without gaining enlightenment themselves, until every living being is saved. Given the magnitude of the universe and the infinite number of beings who are enslaved by ignorance and selfish desire, this is clearly an impossible task, since there can be no end to the number of beings in the whole universe.
...The belief of some people that the Bodhisatvas exist in a particular world system as some sort of divine beings is not consistent with the teaching of the Buddha. Bodhisatvas exist in any part of the world by cultivating the great virtues and precepts in order to gain enlightenment. They generally do so as human beings."
- Pg 29 and 30, Life and Message of the Buddha
To me, the above passage can or may have the effect of persuading a new Buddhist not to consider the Pureland teachings seriously.
Most of the people I know of are either practicing Zen or Pureland. So I am curious what do you and most of the forumers here are practicing ? Can you let me know your practice in Chinese as I am not too sure about English Buddhist term ?
It is very difficult to gain enlightenment in this earthly world, thus most of us choose to go to Pureland to further practice. Everybody has different level of wisdom, that is why Buddha preached Pureland teachings for people like me.
Bodhisatvas are able to gain Nirvana anytime. It is because they know that sentiment beings need help and out of compassion they remain as Bodhisatvas. Their existence is something that we cannot deny. Especially Goddess of Mercy (Kuan Yin Pusa), there are many Buddhists and Taoists experienced and feel her presence.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:To s pnw : yes but you focus on pure land right? To dawn: check the thread I linked regarding authenticity of mahAyana sutras. These sutras don’t come from the historical manifestation of shakyamuni buddha. This does not mean they are not valid. As mahayanist I believe in the existence of pure land though i am not focusing on this path. As for the source of Mahayana sutras, they come from the pure visions of enlightened masters of the sambhogakaya or celestial manifestation of Buddha and his disciples, and these Mahayana sutras only appeared hundreds of years after the historical buddha’s passing away.
What do you practice (in chinese please)?
yes it seems to be at odds with the teachings of the historical Buddha. I always felt that, but could not quite fathom whats wrong.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:What do you practice (in chinese please)?
Ren Cheng. I can't type Chinese now, please visit our Chinese website: http://www.humanbliss.com.sg
However, I am pretty non-sectarian and am not very confined to any particular sect.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:To s pnw : yes but you focus on pure land right? To dawn: check the thread I linked regarding authenticity of mahAyana sutras. These sutras don’t come from the historical manifestation of shakyamuni buddha. This does not mean they are not valid. As mahayanist I believe in the existence of pure land though i am not focusing on this path. As for the source of Mahayana sutras, they come from the pure visions of enlightened masters of the sambhogakaya or celestial manifestation of Buddha and his disciples, and these Mahayana sutras only appeared hundreds of years after the historical buddha’s passing away.
I have read some of the postings on the thread which you linked. I am just curious, if Pureland teachings are not Buddha's words, why Amitabha's sutras' contained the conversations between Buddha and Ananda ? In fact, the whole sutras are about their conversations about Amitabha's Pureland.
Anyway, I will not change path.
By the way, where will Buddhists who practice人乘 finally go to (Pureland or other Buddha's land)? I am very curious. Thanks.
Originally posted by Spnw07:It is true that many Theravada Buddhists do not consider Mahayana sutras as authentic.
Let me quote this passage from 'What Buddhists Believe' by Venerable Dr K Sri Dhammananda (4th Edition).
"...Although Theravada Buddhists respect Bodhisatvas, they do not regard them as being in the position to enlighten or save others before their own enlightenment. Bodhisatvas are, therefore, not regarded as saviours in a spiritual sense. In order to gain their final salvation, all beings must follow the method prescribed by the Buddha and follow the example set by Him. They must also personally eradicate their mental defilements and develop all the great virtues: no one can give them salvation.
Theravada Buddhists do not subscribe to the belief that everyone must strive to become a Buddha in order to gain Nirvana. However, the 'Bodhi' is used to refer to the qualities of a Buddha, or Pacceka Buddha and Arahant in expressions such as Samma Sam Bodhi, Pacceka Bodhi and Savaka Bodhi.
In addition, many of the Buddhas mentioned in the Mahayana school are not historical Buddhas and are therefore not given much attention by Theravada Buddhists.
The notion that certain Buddhas and Bodhisatvas are waiting in Sukhavati (Pure Land) for those who pray is a notion quite foreign to the fundamental Teachings of the Buddha. Certain Bodhisattvas are said to voluntarily remain in Sukhavati, without gaining enlightenment themselves, until every living being is saved. Given the magnitude of the universe and the infinite number of beings who are enslaved by ignorance and selfish desire, this is clearly an impossible task, since there can be no end to the number of beings in the whole universe.
...The belief of some people that the Bodhisatvas exist in a particular world system as some sort of divine beings is not consistent with the teaching of the Buddha. Bodhisatvas exist in any part of the world by cultivating the great virtues and precepts in order to gain enlightenment. They generally do so as human beings."
- Pg 29 and 30, Life and Message of the Buddha
To me, the above passage can or may have the effect of persuading a new Buddhist not to consider the Pureland teachings seriously.
That not all beings are born equal, that not all humans are born equal and not all conditions are equal .
Those who are fortunate to be born in the presence of Shakyamuni Buddha, not all, on seeing and hearing the Buddha, will renounce worldly ties and follow the Buddha's way.
Those are fortunate to born the period where Dharma florish, not all upon hearing the teachings of Buddha, will renounce worldly ties and enter monkhood.
Everything depends on conditions being ideal, if one by taking the "Three Refuges" or even by just reciting "Amitabha" name, creates affinity with Buddhism, that the seed that is stagnant, may sprout with conditions being ideal.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:I have read some of the postings on the thread which you linked. I am just curious, if Pureland teachings are not Buddha's words, why Amitabha's sutras' contained the conversations between Buddha and Ananda ? In fact, the whole sutras are about their conversations about Amitabha's Pureland.
Anyway, I will not change path.
By the way, where will Buddhists who practice人乘 finally go to (Pureland or other Buddha's land)? I am very curious. Thanks.
The sutras account does not refer to historical happening in india, but latter masters' pure vision of buddha and his disciples. In the past, original Buddhism which we now know as the Theravada tradition, there are no such teachings. Hundreds of years later the mahasanghika school broke off after the first few great buddhist councils held by the elders from Theravada due to many differences, and it was from this school that Mahayana sutras originated from, and it was not accepted by the original school of elders known as the Theravadin due to authenticity issues since they only accepted the words of the historical Buddha. Also the way Mahayana sutras are composed are in a very different style from the original scriptures as the former were in a style that are orally recited since that is the sole mode of passing down the scriptures until 1 century B.C. but Mahayana sutras often resembles long literary written pieces. Also for example as namdrol points out, the real vulture peak can't even hold more than a small group of monks at the summit let alone more than a thousand as depicted in lotus sutra and hence it is not a historical account but the pure visions of latter masters.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:Most of the people I know of are either practicing Zen or Pureland. So I am curious what do you and most of the forumers here are practicing ? Can you let me know your practice in Chinese as I am not too sure about English Buddhist term ?
It is very difficult to gain enlightenment in this earthly world, thus most of us choose to go to Pureland to further practice. Everybody has different level of wisdom, that is why Buddha preached Pureland teachings for people like me.
Bodhisatvas are able to gain Nirvana anytime. It is because they know that sentiment beings need help and out of compassion they remain as Bodhisatvas. Their existence is something that we cannot deny. Especially Goddess of Mercy (Kuan Yin Pusa), there are many Buddhists and Taoists experienced and feel her presence.
I am someone who's interested in understanding more about the 阿弥陀佛净土法门。There are others who are practising to achieve their final rebirth in either �师佛净土 or 弥勒��的兜率天内院.
If you wish to discuss this further, you can pm me.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Ren Cheng. I can't type Chinese now, please visit our Chinese website: http://www.humanbliss.com.sg
However, I am pretty non-sectarian and am not very confined to any particular sect.
I have gone to humanbliss website but could not find the answer I want.
Can you advise me how humanbliss Buddhists practice in order to be born in Amitabha's Pureland?
Buddhists who practice Pureland teachings are told to do good deeds sincerely so that we have accumulated enough merits to born in Pureland. Besides that, most importantly we must recite the name of Amitabha. What about HumanBliss Teachings ? I am interested to know.
Originally posted by Spnw07:
I am someone who's interested in understanding more about the 阿弥陀佛净土法门。There are others who are practising to achieve their final rebirth in either �师佛净土 or 弥勒��的兜率天内院.If you wish to discuss this further, you can pm me.
I see. I am determine to be born in Amitabha's Pureland. All this while, I thought Pureland teachings is the only teachings to Pureland. I did not know that there are other teachings which is also teaching Pureland.
I am asking AEN about humanbliss which is also teaching taking birth in Pureland.
soneone pointed out that pureland is like contrary to what the Buddha has taught? it is akin to praying to god to go heaven. so did historical Buddha expounded the that there is Amitabha Buddha in the West? anyone care to clarify?
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no2e.htm
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:I have gone to humanbliss website but could not find the answer I want.
Can you advise me how humanbliss Buddhists practice in order to be born in Amitabha's Pureland?
Buddhists who practice Pureland teachings are told to do good deeds sincerely so that we have accumulated enough merits to born in Pureland. Besides that, most importantly we must recite the name of Amitabha. What about HumanBliss Teachings ? I am interested to know.
Many people in Chinese Buddhism teach a mixture of Zen and Pure Land. As for my own Master, he used to learn from a pure land master (Ven Xue Song), then after that learnt from a zen master (Ven Dong Chu), he teaches chanting and meditation depending on the person's circumstance and conditions.
Only in Japan is the distinction between pure land and zen very distinct, where Zennists don't practice pure land, pure landers don't practice Zen. Then again, in Vajrayana, pure land method is also taught and many people also get reborn in pure land through Tibetan/Tantric/Vajrayana Buddhism, though Tibetan Buddhism/Vajrayana does not have a sect that focuses solely on pure land.
As for my Master's teachings, he puts it this way: �禅�净,既禅既净,
显密�修,行解相应
Originally posted by Rooney9:soneone pointed out that pureland is like contrary to what the Buddha has taught? it is akin to praying to god to go heaven. so did historical Buddha expounded the that there is Amitabha Buddha in the West? anyone care to clarify?
I think my thread in Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha? already answered it very clearly.
The authorship isn't so important, it's the wisdom and content in the sutra that is more important.
Just because the Nirmanakaya manifestation did not teach the Mahayana canon does not mean they are not valid as there is the Sambhogakaya level of Buddha vision. However the original Theravadins did not accepted this.
Anyway there are indeed many people who have reborn in pure land and there were many signs, and my Master has been there and returned with evidence through the major mark of Buddha he developed.