thank you all for all the information. this is really a very informative forum regarding buddhism. it certainly helped clear some doubts.
my husband asked one of the Seniors there regarding the xuefa. He said it was a Buddha name Yi Wan Guang Fo who taught the Master (hence the temple's name)
The senior clarified that the temple is no making any money out of the donations, hence its not possible that shifu is running the temple out of greed.The senior also told my husband to ask himself, whether the temple is doing him more harm then good. He said the more my husband try to search for an answer, the more frustrated he will be. Because in religion, there is never a right answer that is a confirmed answer.
To summarize, its to think simple and follow your heart.
Im sorry if it sounds confusing because im directly translating what the senior told my husband. hehe
you are damn stubborn. told you to enrol them on sunday buddhist classes to learn basic buddhism or read buddhism books for starters.
It will be good if someone here well verse in buddhism help me personally check out the temple.
From there, maybe can gain further insights and details and let me know what you think.
Im still very skeptical abt this temple la, even though i think its not a cult.
people are misled by these cults or new age sects professing to teach the Buddha's teaching. if you know your stuff well, you wont be misled isnt it.
just like if you have knowledge on investments, you wont be misled by the RM or wealth managers trying to invests in a fund that guarantee you 20% per annum. think about it, is that possible to achieve 20% per annum. thats when you start questioning the RM/WM on the strategies on achieving the returns.
no wonder a lot of people are hoodwinked and misled. first they are ignorant of what Buddhism is about. misconception/myths about Buddhism doesnt help either.
no wonder fake monks and cults can easily attract followers and then exploit and cheat/swindle them of their money and most importantly the malfeasance of spirituality.
rooney
i already told my husband. its up to him whether or not he wants to go. I cant force him right..
apparently, the temple never really teaches the basic of buddhism. after reading some threads in this forum, i think my knowledge now better than him!! haha
ya true then whats the point of asking here? already people here told you what they think. still need to check and verify when its pretty obvious.
Originally posted by prodigizz:apparently, the temple never really teaches the basic of buddhism. after reading some threads in this forum, i think my knowledge now better than him!! haha
so what. you cant force him to change his opinions.
Originally posted by prodigizz:It will be good if someone here well verse in buddhism help me personally check out the temple.
From there, maybe can gain further insights and details and let me know what you think.
Im still very skeptical abt this temple la, even though i think its not a cult.
its not a cult ,but the temple master is no realised person
its just like trying to follow someone not realised and after so many aeons and still not realised
shurangama sutra says
trying to cook sand to become rice,after thousand kalpa ,sand can never be rice
bohiruci
thats what i thought.
do you know of any reputable dharma centres that teaches in english?
people gave you information earlier, you stil asked the same question now? go google.
prodigizz: In Shurangama sutra, there are dozens of examples of how demons manifest in people appearing as Buddhas in their visions, and these people who saw the 'buddhas' then come out as masters and teachers and mislead people.
Be careful.
does the buddha exists or not exists after he attained final Nirvana? the Buddha did not answer this when asked cos he thought the questioner was already confused isnt it.
Example:
Further, as the person uses his mind to intently investigate inside
and outside,
his physical and spiritual souls, intellect, will, essence, and spirit
will
be able to interact with one another without affecting his body. They
will take
turns as host and guests. Then he may suddenly hear the Dharma being
spoken
in space, or perhaps he will hear esoteric truths being pronounced
simultaneously
throughout the ten directions. This state is called "the essence and
souls
alternately separating and uniting, and the planting of good seeds."
It
is a temporary state and does not indicate sagehood. If he does not
think he
has become a sage, then this will be a good state. But if he considers
himself
a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Further, when the person's mind becomes clear, unveiled, bright, and penetrating, an internal light will shine forth and turn everything in the ten directions into the color of Jambu-river gold. All the various species of beings will be transformed into Tathagatas. Suddenly he will see Vairochana Buddha seated upon a platform of celestial light, surrounded by a thousand Buddhas, who simultaneously appear upon lotus blossoms in a hundred million lands. This state is called "the mind and soul being instilled with spiritual awareness." When he has investigated to the point of clarity, the light of his mind will shine upon all worlds. This is a temporary state and does not indicate sagehood. If he does not think he has become a sage, then this will be a good state. But if he considers himself a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Further, as the person uses his mind to intently investigate that wondrous light, he will contemplate without pause, restraining and subduing his mind so that it does not go to extremes. Suddenly the space in the ten directions may take on the colors of the seven precious things or the colors of a hundred precious things, which simultaneously pervade everywhere without hindering one another. The blues, yellows, reds, and whites will each be clearly apparent. This state is called "excessively subduing the mind." It is a temporary state and does not indicate sagehood. If he does not think he has become a sage, then this will be a good state. But if he considers himself a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Further, as the person uses his mind to investigate with clear
discernment until
the pure light no longer disperses, he will suddenly be able to see
various
things appear in a dark room at night, just as if it were daytime,
while the
objects that were already in the room do not disappear. This state is
called
"refining the mind and purifying the vision until one is able to see
in
the dark." It is a temporary state and does not indicate sagehood. If
he
does not think he has become a sage, then this will be a good state.
But if
he considers himself a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons'
influence.
Further, when his mind completely merges with emptiness, his four
limbs will
suddenly become like grass or wood, devoid of sensation even when
burned by
fire or cut with a knife. The burning of fire will not make his limbs
hot, and
even when his flesh is cut, it will be like wood being whittled. This
state
is called "the merging of external states and the blending of the four
elements into a uniform substance." It is a temporary state and does
not
indicate sagehood. If he does not think he has become a sage, then
this will
be a good state. But if he considers himself a sage, then he will be
vulnerable
to the demon's influence.
Further, when his mind accomplishes such purity that his skill in
purifying
the mind has reached its ultimate, he will suddenly see the earth, the
mountains,
and the rivers in the ten directions turn into Buddhalands replete
with the
seven precious things, their light shining everywhere. He will also
see Buddhas,
Tathagatas, as many as the sands of the Ganges, filling all of space.
He will
also see pavilions and palaces that are resplendent and beautiful. He
will see
the hells below and the celestial palaces above, all without
obstruction. This
state is called "the gradual transformation of concentrated thoughts
of
fondness and loathing." It does not indicate sagehood. If he does not
think
he has become a sage, then this will be a good state. But if he
considers himself
a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Further, as the person uses his mind to investigate what is profound
and far
away, he will suddenly be able to see distant places in the middle of
the night.
He will see city markets and community wells, streets and alleys, and
relatives
and friends, and he may hear their conversations. This state is called
"having
been suppressed to the utmost, the mind flies out and sees much that
had been
blocked from view." It does not indicate sagehood. If he does not
think
he has become a sage, then this will be a good state. But if he
considers himself
a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Further, as the person uses his mind to investigate to the utmost
point, he
may see a Good and Wise Advisor whose body undergoes changes. Within a
brief
interval, various transformations will occur which cannot be
explained. This
state is called "having an improper mind which is possessed by a
Li-ghost,
a Mei-ghost, or a celestial demon, and without reason speaking Dharma
that fathoms
wondrous truths." It does not indicate sagehood. If he does not think
he
has become a sage, then the demonic formations will subside. But if he
considers
himself a sage, then he will be vulnerable to the demons' influence.
Ananda, these ten states may occur in Dhyana as one's mental effort
interacts
with the form Skandha.
Dull and confused living beings do not evaluate themselves.
Encountering such
situations, in their confusion they fail to recognize them and say
that they
have become sages, thereby uttering a great lie. They will fall into
the Relentless
Hells.
In the Dharma-ending Age, after the Tathagata enters Nirvana, all of
you should
rely on and proclaim this teaching. Do not let the demons of the
heavens have
their way. Offer protection so all can realize the unsurpassed Way.
AEN
Yes, i agree with you on that.
It's interesting cos I actually heard some of the cases happening before... my Master actually 'subdued' (non forcefully) the spirits causing a person to claim they are arhat and have powers, etc.
more from shurangama sutra, which also warns of 'He often talks about spiritual powers and self-mastery. He may cause people to see visions of Buddhalands, but they are unreal and arise merely from the ghost's power to delude people. ':
Further, in the unhindered clarity and wonder that ensues after the
feeling
Skandha is gone, this good person is untroubled by any deviant mental
state
and experiences perfect, bright concentration. Within Samadhi, his
mind craves
spiritual powers and all manner of transformations, so he investigates
the source
of transformations as he greedily seeks for spiritual powers.
At that time a demon from the heavens seizes the opportunity it has
been waiting
for. Its spirit possesses another person and uses him as a mouthpiece
to expound
the Sutras and the Dharma.
This person, truly unaware that he is possessed by a demon, also
claims he has
reached unsurpassed Nirvana. When he comes to see that good person who
seeks
spiritual powers, he arranges a seat and speaks the Dharma. The
possessed person
may hold fire in his hands and, grasping a portion of it, put a flame
on the
head of each listener in the Fourfold Assembly. The flames on top of
their heads
are several feet high, yet they are not hot and no one is burned. Or
he may
walk on water as if on dry land; or he may sit motionless in the air;
or he
may enter into a bottle or stay in a bag; or he may pass through
window panes
and walls without obstruction. Only when attacked by weapons does he
feel ill
at ease. He declares himself to be a Buddha and, wearing the clothing
of a lay
person, receives bows from Bhikshus. He slanders Dhyana meditation and
the moral
regulations. He scolds his disciples and exposes people's private
affairs without
fear of ridicule or rejection.
He often talks about spiritual powers and self-mastery. He may cause
people
to see visions of Buddhalands, but they are unreal and arise merely
from the
ghost's power to delude people. He praises the indulgence of lust and
does not
condemn lewd conduct. He uses indecent means to transmit his Dharma.
This is a powerful nature spirit: a mountain sprite, a sea sprite, a
wind sprite,
a river sprite, an earth sprite, or a grass-and-tree sprite that has
evolved
over long ages. It may be a dragon-goblin; or a Rishi who has been
reborn as
a goblin; or again a Rishi who, having reached the end of his
appointed time,
should have died, but whose body does not decay and is possessed by a
goblin.
In its old age it has become a demon. It disturbs and confuses the
good person.
But when it tires of doing so, it will leave the other person's body.
Then both
the disciples and the teacher will get in trouble with the law.
You should be aware of this in advance and not get caught up in the
cycle of
transmigration. If you are confused and do not understand, you will
fall into
the Relentless Hells.
..............
Further, in the unhindered clarity and wonder that ensues after the feeling Skandha is gone, this good person is untroubled by any deviant mental state and experiences perfect, bright concentration. Within Samadhi, his mind craves revelations from afar, so he pours all his energy into this intense investigation as he greedily seeks for imperceptible spiritual responses.
At that time a demon from the heavens seizes the opportunity it has been waiting for. Its spirit possesses another person and uses him as a mouthpiece to expound the Sutras and the Dharma.
This person, completely unaware that he is possessed by a demon, claims he has reached unsurpassed Nirvana. When he comes to see that good person who seeks revelations, he arranges a seat and speaks the Dharma. He briefly appears to his listeners in a body that looks a hundred or a thousand years old. They experience a defiling love for him and cannot bear to part with him. They personally act as his servants, tirelessly making the Four Kinds of Offerings to him. Each member of the assembly believes that this person is his former teacher, his original Good and Wise Advisor. They give rise to love for his Dharma and stick to him as if glued, feeling they have obtained something unprecedented.
The good person is beguiled and fooled into thinking the other is a Bodhisattva. Attracted to the other's thinking, he breaks the Buddha's moral precepts and covertly indulges his greedy desires.
He is fond of saying, in a past life, in a certain incarnation, I rescued a certain person who was then my wife (or my mistress, or my brother). Now I have come to rescue you again. We will stay together and go to another world to make offerings to a certain Buddha." Or he may say, "There is a Heaven of Great Brilliance where a Buddha now dwells. It is the resting place of all Tathagatas. Ignorant people believe his ravings and lose their original resolve.
This is a pestilence ghost that in its old age has become a demon. It disturbs and confuses the good person. But when it tires of doing so, it will leave the other person's body. Then both the disciples and the teacher will get in trouble with the law.
You should be aware of this in advance and not get caught up in the cycle of transmigration. If you are confused and do not understand, you will fall into the Relentless Hells.
all the more important for people who does not know what Buddhism is about. I have heard people telling me that buddhists cannot eat beef?
Originally posted by prodigizz:thank you all for all the information. this is really a very informative forum regarding buddhism. it certainly helped clear some doubts.
my husband asked one of the Seniors there regarding the xuefa. He said it was a Buddha name Yi Wan Guang Fo who taught the Master (hence the temple's name)
The senior clarified that the temple is no making any money out of the donations, hence its not possible that shifu is running the temple out of greed.The senior also told my husband to ask himself, whether the temple is doing him more harm then good. He said the more my husband try to search for an answer, the more frustrated he will be. Because in religion, there is never a right answer that is a confirmed answer.
To summarize, its to think simple and follow your heart.
Im sorry if it sounds confusing because im directly translating what the senior told my husband. hehe
Can I ask how the senior knows how the donation is spent on? Does the temple have any paper works- (with independent auditing from external firm) that can verify what he said is true?
Secondly, why will there be frustration? I think it is perfectly appropriate for one to find out more about what one is spending his time on and what exactly is he learning on. I don't think one will want to learn something blindly, without knowing what one is getting oneself into in the first place?
The Buddha had spoken about discerning religious teaching. Actually, Buddha has invited us to inquire on his teachings, investigate whether what he taught is true or not and also to clarify any doubts. If the teaching is authentic and spoke the truth about life, then one should be able to verify it because it is the truth. There is no fear of questioning the teachings in Buddhism. There will be gradual clarity as one clear their misconception while progressing on the path.
o Discerning Religious Teachings
The Buddha instructs the Kalama People on which basis one should decide which religious teaching to accept as true. The Buddha tells the Kalamas to not just believe religious teachings because they are claimed to be true by various sources or through the application of various methods and techniques. He urges that direct knowledge from one's own experience should be called upon. He counsels that the words of the wise should be heeded and taken into account when deciding upon the value of a teaching. This is not a dogmatic acceptance but rather a constantly questioning and testing acceptance of those teachings which can be proven to reduce suffering.
Originally posted by prodigizz:rooney
i already told my husband. its up to him whether or not he wants to go. I cant force him right..
Please maintain harmony, do not insist if it brings friction!
Maybe you can suggest that he accompany you to have vegetarian lunches in one of the temples. As you understand more of orthodox Buddhist practice, slowly relate to him!
Make it family affair, the old folks too!
Weychin
Yes, i dont want our discussion to turn into arguments. I've suggested that he learn from some reputable temples and also feeding him with information i've gotten here. He's slowly absorbing.
Isis
The most absurd thing the Senior said when my husband asked why was Kwan Gong's statue placed there as Kwan Yu is considered to be of folk religion?
The Senior said actually Kwan Gong had been bestowed the Boddhisattva title when in Heaven.
gosh... isnt this extreme?
Actually Guan Gong is considered as a dharma protector, I believe he is respected as a worldly protector in Buddhism. Some people consider him a Bodhisattva, but I don't know who actually said that. To be a Bodhisattva you must be enlightened. From the story, it seems he is a worldly spirit who then took a vow to protect Buddhism.
--------------
In Chinese Buddhism, Guan Yu is revered by most practicing Buddhists as Sangharama Bodhisattva (simplified Chinese: ä¼½è“�è�©è�¨; traditional Chinese: ä¼½è—�è�©è–©,; pinyin: Qíelán Púsà) a protector of the Buddhist dharma. Sangharama in Sanskrit means 'community garden' (sangha, community + arama, garden) and thus 'monastery'. The sangharama refer to a group of devas and spirits who guard Buddhist monasteries, the dharma, and the faith itself. Over time and as an act of syncreticism, Guan Yu was seen as a representative sangharama guardian of the temple and the garden in which it stands. His statue is usually located on the far left of the main shrine, opposite his counterpart, Skanda.
According to Buddhist legends, in 592, Guan Yu manifested himself one night before Ch'an Master Zhiyi, the founder of the Tientai school of Buddhism, along with a retinue of spiritual beings. Zhiyi was then in deep meditation on Yuquan Hill (玉泉山) when he was distracted by Guan Yu's presence. Guan Yu then requested the master to teach him about the dharma. After receiving Buddhist teachings from the master, Guan Yu took refuge in the triple gems and also requested the Five Precepts. Henceforth, it is said that Guan Yu made a vow to become a guardian of temples and the Dharma. Legends also claim that Guan Yu assisted Zhiyi in the construction of the Yuquan Temple (玉泉寺), which still stands today.
In the historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Luo Guanzhong wrote that Guan Yu manifested himself to a monk named Pujing (普淨) on Yuquan Hill on the night of his death, with his spirit shouting "Return my head!" From Pujing, Guan Yu sought the Buddhist teachings and entered the faith after being told by Pujing "Where should Yan Liang, Wen Chou, and the guardians of the five passes whom you have slain seek their heads?" While this being a modification of the "true" account, Pujing did exist in history. The location at which Pujing built a grass hut for himself was where the Yuquan Temple was later built on.
Oh but the 'Kwan Gong had been bestowed the Boddhisattva title when in Heaven.' is confirm wrong even if kwan gong is a bodhisattva, which I doubt.
A Bodhisattva isn't bestowed the title. A Bodhisattva becomes a bodhisattva when he becomes enlightened. There is no 'bestowal'. You cannot be bestowed enlightenment. You must realise it yourself.
And btw, what's up with the heaven part anyway, it's not like heaven is the home base of Buddhas. Buddhas don't belong to worldly states of existence, though they may appear to help us, they don't live in heaven.
Originally posted by prodigizz:bohiruci
thats what i thought.
do you know of any reputable dharma centres that teaches in english?
Amitabha Buddhist Centre offer English Dharma Lesson starting from Beginner
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~chungsa/
and KMSPKS Kong Meng San Phor Kark See Monastery
http://www.kmspks.org/kmspks/index.htm
You can also join my working adult group for simple dharma discussion -online mode
pm me to find out more :)
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh but the 'Kwan Gong had been bestowed the Boddhisattva title when in Heaven.' is confirm wrong even if kwan gong is a bodhisattva, which I doubt.
A Bodhisattva isn't bestowed the title. A Bodhisattva becomes a bodhisattva when he becomes enlightened. There is no 'bestowal'. You cannot be bestowed enlightenment. You must realise it yourself.
And btw, what's up with the heaven part anyway, it's not like heaven is the home base of Buddhas. Buddhas don't belong to worldly states of existence, though they may appear to help us, they don't live in heaven.
hahahah! eternal ur reply is so funny...home base..ha!
yes they dun live in heaven
from what i know after studying chinese history and buddhism,
i thot that guan gong is the jie lan pu sa which protects the dharma and temples. however, i thot that it is because of the chinese history and culture then chinese buddhist decided that jie lan pu sa should take the form of guan yu due to his so called title in chinese history 战神or so called war god. i think is just different explanation of how the buddhas became immortals.
buddhism is actually from India, so...IMO, i think some of the chinese cultural god or bodhisattva in buddhism are actually added in by the chinese themselves...no doubt, there are high chances of a chinese getting enlightened actually and i believe greatly that there are many chinese getting enlightened as buddhism, only in china, then did it gained greater popularity.