Advice on Friends
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Advice on Friends
by Dza Patrul Rinpoche
A Good Friend Induces Good Habits
If you rely on a friend with knowledge, your intellect will increase.
If you rely on a friend with compassion, you will give birth to bodhichitta.
If you rely on a friend with contentment, your desires will decrease.
If you rely on a friend with generosity, you will give rise to a giving mind.
If you rely on a friend with a peaceful and restrained temperament, your mind-stream will become good.
From a friend with disillusionment with the world, you will become weary of samsara.
From a friend with renunciation, you will give rise to the wish for liberation.
From relying on a friend who cares more about the next life, you will remember to practice the Dharma.
Relying on a friend with few desires, you will give rise to contentment.
From a friend with diligence, your fortitude will become great.
If you associate with a sacred friend, your good qualities will be drawn out.
Relying on a friend with the wish for liberation, you will work for permanent happiness.
From a friend with a virtuous mind, you will give rise to a wholesome attitude.
From a friend with pure perception, you will generate faith.
If you associate with a friend endowed with wisdom, you will accomplish your ultimate aspirations.
These are the habits that come from good company.
The meaning, therefore, is to rely on virtuous friends!
A Bad Friend Induces Bad Habits
If you rely on friend with mental darkness, your wisdom will decrease.
Relying on a friend with anger, your mind-stream will become bad.
Following a friend with lust, you will be nostalgiac for youth.
If you follow a friend with avarice, stinginess will be born.
If you follow a friend with pride, you will remember your haughty position.
Following a friend without renunciation, you will be attached to this life.
Following a friend who seeks after the appearances of this life, you will forget about the next life.
From following a base friend, you will be attentive to commerce.
Following a friend concerned with profit, you will have a business-mind.
Following a friend with craving for wealth, you will be focused on collecting and hoarding.
Following a friend with laziness, you will become indolent.
Following a friend with distractedness, you will be carried away with this life.
Associating with a friend suffused with negativity, you will generate destructive thoughts.
Associating with a friend with no faith, you will be fixated on non-virtue.
These are the habits that come from bad company.
The meaning, therefore, is to abandon evil friends!
And so, at the request of Lama Rigdzin Gyamtso, this was done by Patrul. Virtue!
Translated by Erick Sherab Zangpo.
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The most important thing is not to attach to your friend whether good or bad and also to other people.
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Good guidelines on what to look out for in a friend or what kind of friends should one associate with.
However, it's not easy to judge if the people we meet do have any one of the good qualities and that these qualities will last throughout their lives. Similarly for those who we call friends. Some may be compassionate from the start and yet falter or even change to be someone indifferent to the sufferings of others.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Good guidelines on what to look out for in a friend or what kind of friends should one associate with.
However, it's not easy to judge if the people we meet do have any one of the good qualities and that these qualities will last throughout their lives. Similarly for those who we call friends. Some may be compassionate from the start and yet falter or even change to be someone indifferent to the sufferings of others.
Yes. That's why in addition to finding good friends (very important), it's important to always watch oneself... is one influenced by our friends (even supposedly good ones) in a negative way... and also... am I being a negative influence to our friends myself? Or am I a positive influence...
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Yes. That's why in addition to finding good friends (very important), it's important to always watch oneself... is one influenced by our friends (even supposedly good ones) in a negative way... and also... am I being a negative influence to our friends myself? Or am I a positive influence...
Influenced by good ones in a negative way? Can you elaborate?
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It took me a long time to realise the wisdom in this simple dictum.
Now, i am more careful.
Many great masters have talked about this in treatises, according to my poor memory, maybe in Sakya Lekshe by Sakya Pandita and also an treatise by Mipham Gyatso, it is a topic by itself.
One of Patrul Rinpoche's (A great realised master) frequent aspiration prayer is to always have be free from negative influences and friends in all his lives.
spnw07, no need to check people's character out, it's very difficult to do it that way. Just see if you get better after association. I think with a little reflection, one can generally tell the effects others have on oneself. Also, it is best to have friends who share the same kind of spiritual compass as oneself, not religion, but at least if they have the same kind of values, or values you are aspiring to.
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Thanks, wisdomeye.
This is meaningful and useful.
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yes... friends are like "doors"... they can influence your thoughts.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Influenced by good ones in a negative way? Can you elaborate?
Yes. Just simple example. A person can be good in almost every way, yet he smokes. If because of your association with him you also came to learn smoking, that is bad. Every character has their own flaws, nobody is totally 'good' in that sense. And even if they are 'good', their personality is ever changing.
Also, there are even Zen masters and Tibetan masters who are drunkards, and there were also sex scandals. Even though Jack Neo seems like a nice guy but he also got involved in those things. Sometimes even supposedly good persons can be negative influence, we never know. I think it is good to learn what we can learn from people, but the negative side we have to make sure we don't learn as well.
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Originally posted by wisdomeye:
It took me a long time to realise the wisdom in this simple dictum.
Now, i am more careful.
Many great masters have talked about this in treatises, according to my poor memory, maybe in Sakya Lekshe by Sakya Pandita and also an treatise by Mipham Gyatso, it is a topic by itself.
One of Patrul Rinpoche's (A great realised master) frequent aspiration prayer is to always have be free from negative influences and friends in all his lives.
spnw07, no need to check people's character out, it's very difficult to do it that way. Just see if you get better after association. I think with a little reflection, one can generally tell the effects others have on oneself. Also, it is best to have friends who share the same kind of spiritual compass as oneself, not religion, but at least if they have the same kind of values, or values you are aspiring to.
I roughly get the drift of your main message. For my case, there are things I don't want to be too sure of when it comes to assessing myself or others (even if I do practise self-reflection), be it in a negative or positive way.In other words, I don't want to be too sure that any effect I get from association from others is definitely or necessarily good or bad even after self-reflection; cos I'm just an unenlightened person and people do change from time to time.
About looking about friends with the same kind of values or those I'm aspiring to, well, yes, this is indeed sound advice generally. I am indeed trying to search for such friends. However, sometimes this can quite difficult. Many personal and interpersonal factors are at play. No one party can or should be blamed entirely for a stagnant or failed friendship. After all, as the cliche goes, it takes both hands to clap.
The Buddha gave us guidelines on what counts as a good spiritual friend in the scriptures and it is also for us to try to be such friends to others as well.
However in reality certain relationships could end up simply being one-way till either party dies. This is why I have a deeper feel of what 'dukkha' is in the 1st Noble Truth and about the truth of impermanence.
Thanks for the advice. =)
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Yes. Just simple example. A person can be good in almost every way, yet he smokes. If because of your association with him you also came to learn smoking, that is bad. Every character has their own flaws, nobody is totally 'good' in that sense. And even if they are 'good', their personality is ever changing.
Also, there are even Zen masters and Tibetan masters who are drunkards, and there were also sex scandals. Even though Jack Neo seems like a nice guy but he also got involved in those things. Sometimes even supposedly good persons can be negative influence, we never know. I think it is good to learn what we can learn from people, but the negative side we have to make sure we don't learn as well.
Thanks AEN for the simple example. I can quickly grasp the gist of your point.
Indeed even supposedly good people can be negative influences at some point in time in our lives, therefore the message to everyone should be 'never be too sure', and 'always be alert and aware of changes around you and within you'.
The general advice that we learn only the good and make sure that we don't get influenced by the negative sides of a friend or acquaintance's personality is sound, yet in practice, it's not that simple.
For example, we learn good manners from our parents when they show it naturally and consistently towards others. We don't get influenced as easily through verbal teaching.
Likewise, if our parents have some bad habits, we may adopt them without knowing or finding anything wrong with them. It's a subconscious thing.
I always recall the Buddha's advice not to associate with the foolish. Yet there is another advice that we should exercise compassion and not push away those who are doing foolish things. I get confused at how to exactly put these two advice in daily practice.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
Thanks AEN for the simple example. I can quickly grasp the gist of your point.
Indeed even supposedly good people can be negative influences at some point in time in our lives, therefore the message to everyone should be 'never be too sure', and 'always be alert and aware of changes around you and within you'.
The general advice that we learn only the good and make sure that we don't get influenced by the negative sides of a friend or acquaintance's personality is sound, yet in practice, it's not that simple.
For example, we learn good manners from our parents when they show it naturally and consistently towards others. We don't get influenced as easily through verbal teaching.
Likewise, if our parents have some bad habits, we may adopt them without knowing or finding anything wrong with them. It's a subconscious thing.
I always recall the Buddha's advice not to associate with the foolish. Yet there is another advice that we should exercise compassion and not push away those who are doing foolish things. I get confused at how to exactly put these two advice in daily practice.
Remember the story of Mencius mother, who moved house three times because of the bad habits he picked up while in different abodes?
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dear spnw07,
actually, the advice given by Paltrul Rp and what i commented are not meant to be hard-and-fast rules... you can adapt it to your situation as you deem fit. There are many other factors like your karmic connections and so on... and if you feel that any part doesn't help, just ignore it. Maybe someone else will find it useful.
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friends influence us, likewise we also influence our friends.
there's a reason why we know our friends. some become close ones while most only remain at superficial level.
honestly everyone has a dark side, and being a closer friend gives us the 'privilege' to see more of this dark side. a spouse is one who will have the most chance to learn to live with this. and whether one will pick up the bad stuff depends on the mental maturity and capacity at the point in time. but prevention is better than cure.
i picked up smoking when i was 15 from schoolmates. these schoolmates are now still the closest friends of mine and we are not exactly bad people, only difference is some of the things which some of them do now i will not approve and not follow, unlike when we were 15. but that doesnt hurt our friendship abit cos these are the dark side that we have to work with along the way.
anyway on a side note, yes im still working on my smoking habit, and one necessary action to take is to reduce contact with people whom i have habitually smoke with. also i believe training up on samadhi meditation will help strenghten mindfulness.
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Good points...
Anyway I think this is very true:
SN 45.2PTS: S v 2CDB ii 1524Upaddha Sutta: Half (of the Holy Life)translated from the Pali byThanissaro BhikkhuI have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Sakyans. Now there is a Sakyan town named Sakkara. There Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."1
"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.
"And how does a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, develop & pursue the noble eightfold path? There is the case where a monk develops right view dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. He develops right resolve ... right speech ... right action ... right livelihood ... right effort ... right mindfulness ... right concentration dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. This is how a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, develops & pursues the noble eightfold path.
"And through this line of reasoning one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life: It is in dependence on me as an admirable friend that beings subject to birth have gained release from birth, that beings subject to aging have gained release from aging, that beings subject to death have gained release from death, that beings subject to sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair have gained release from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. It is through this line of reasoning that one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life."
Notes
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- As AN 8.54 points out, this means not only associating with good people, but also learning from them and emulating their good qualities.
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u know there is a saying. oh god, pls protect me from my friends
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
I always recall the Buddha's advice not to associate with the foolish. Yet there is another advice that we should exercise compassion and not push away those who are doing foolish things. I get confused at how to exactly put these two advice in daily practice.
I guess there's a difference between not avoiding them and befriending them. We don't avoid people... we don't have prejudices against certain people due to their behaviors etc... and we still help them when they need help. But doesn't mean we have to learn from them or become close to them.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
u know there is a saying. oh god, pls protect me from my friends
Very well done!
Put a wig on you!
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
I guess there's a difference between not avoiding them and befriending them. We don't avoid people... we don't have prejudices against certain people due to their behaviors etc... and we still help them when they need help. But doesn't mean we have to learn from them or become close to them.
How do you differentiate between avoiding and becoming close to them?
In order not to become close, one would have to keep some form of physical or emotional distance away from such people. That is my understanding and experience so far.
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Originally posted by Spnw07:
How do you differentiate between avoiding and becoming close to them?
In order not to become close, one would have to keep some form of physical or emotional distance away from such people. That is my understanding and experience so far.
There is no need to avoid people but don't keep finding him also. Avoid engaging in unvirtuous and unnecessary speech and action. If lets say someone who loves gambling walks up and talk to you, if you just walk away it would be inappropriate. There is no need to avoid talking to him just because he loves gambling. But if you start to discuss about gambling and get tempted and think you want to gamble with him, then you're wrong. Also, if he invites you out to gamble, avoid it.
It is also better to spend more time associating with wise people.
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i think firstly, we shd assess our own ability honestly. Are we likely to be influenced by others in a negative way, if yes, then it may be better to avoid totally those who can influence.
In your heart, you can always pray for them and wish them well, but if you think that you want to help them then it is up to you, assess your own ability to help them. Don't assess wrongly then be influenced negatively rather than being able to help others.
My assessment is that usually negative energy is much stronger than whatever positive qualities we have. Because becoming a better person is always a uphill climb, we are always having to deal with the negativities inside ourselves already.
If we can't help ourselves, it's difficult to change others. If we help ourselves and be very positive models, i think others will naturally be inspired to change.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
There is no need to avoid people but don't keep finding him also. Avoid engaging in unvirtuous and unnecessary speech and action. If lets say someone who loves gambling walks up and talk to you, if you just walk away it would be inappropriate. There is no need to avoid talking to him just because he loves gambling. But if you start to discuss about gambling and get tempted and think you want to gamble with him, then you're wrong. Also, if he invites you out to gamble, avoid it.
It is also better to spend more time associating with wise people.
The only way I can eliminate any possibility of him inviting me out to gamble and not having to explain myself to his satisfaction every time is to avoid him completely.
But thanks AEN for your example. It aids my understanding as different but possible real-life scenarios are included.
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Originally posted by wisdomeye:
i think firstly, we shd assess our own ability honestly. Are we likely to be influenced by others in a negative way, if yes, then it may be better to avoid totally those who can influence.
In your heart, you can always pray for them and wish them well, but if you think that you want to help them then it is up to you, assess your own ability to help them. Don't assess wrongly then be influenced negatively rather than being able to help others.
My assessment is that usually negative energy is much stronger than whatever positive qualities we have. Because becoming a better person is always a uphill climb, we are always having to deal with the negativities inside ourselves already.
If we can't help ourselves, it's difficult to change others. If we help ourselves and be very positive models, i think others will naturally be inspired to change.
I especially agree with the part about negative energy usually being much stronger than whatever positive qualities we have.
It's true that if we can't help ourselves, it's difficult to help others. Yet in my opinion, sometimes we don't have to wait or push ourselves too hard to become very positive models; we don't have to harbour any thought of seeing any change that we want to see when extending our help.
Just help because you want to at that particular moment and that you believe that you have something to contribute, even though it might not solve the problem at hand immediately or completely.
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hi spnw07,
i'm not talking about helping anyone in general. I'm saying, when you meet negative people, wanting to help them change or whatever...
ok, some people are mixtures of good and bad, then for that, you have to weigh pros and cons. I mean, i am not you and for such matters, one has to use one's own judgement. there is no point trying to be so specific down to the smallest detail, because every situation is different. u will find that no theory in the world is foolproof, one always has to adapt it to the situation.
then, there is the matter of emotion and karmic debt and all that, one may be so attached to someone even though he/she is overtly harming you... for that, i only have one word: boh-pian!
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Originally posted by wisdomeye:
hi spnw07,
i'm not talking about helping anyone in general. I'm saying, when you meet negative people, wanting to help them change or whatever...
ok, some people are mixtures of good and bad, then for that, you have to weigh pros and cons. I mean, i am not you and for such matters, one has to use one's own judgement. there is no point trying to be so specific down to the smallest detail, because every situation is different. u will find that no theory in the world is foolproof, one always has to adapt it to the situation.
then, there is the matter of emotion and karmic debt and all that, one may be so attached to someone even though he/she is overtly harming you... for that, i only have one word: boh-pian!
Wanting to help negative people change right? The key word you used was 'help'...
There are people who wish to know the details for every different situation, so what we can do to help such people is to share with them our life experiences and disclose those details that we are comfortable with disclosing. But if we don't have something to share or don't want to share, then it's ok too.
It appears you felt I was looking for a foolproof theory but I am not. Like you said one always has to adapt according to the situation. I'm someone who learns from the experiences of others since we all have different views and feelings towards what we experience.
I learn as much as I can from people who wish to share.
Seeing that my comments has somehow made you feel rather frustrated or uncomfortable, let's put this aside and discuss something that we can share freely and understand each other more readily.