Originally posted by An Eternal Now:BTW I would like to add regarding Brahma.. that I have a friend who is a Dzogchen practitioner a.k.a Vajrahridaya whose past life is actually a Brahma.
I posted an article by him before in our forum which Thusness thinks is very well written: http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/376891
He described being a vast and powerful God and time was entirely different from the way we as humans consider it. It felt very ancient, from a human remembering the experience point of view. He also, at that point though saw that there are infinite Brahmas and infinite universes.
Because of his past life as a Brahma, he had a tendency for God like pride and certain level experiences that reify a Godhead, or a center of the universe type of thing, it's blissful, but he know it's not the realization of Buddhahood.
He was into Hinduism previously and was able to enter very subtle states of samadhi and cosmic consciousness, but after recognising Rigpa and the truth of dependent origination through conversation with Buddhist teacher Loppon Namdrol and meeting his guru Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, he converted to Buddhism.
I also have similar meditative experiences.
My own opinion is that this may correspond to a higher jhana plane. In newage term (for newage guys reading this forum..), this may correspond to roughly the 6th density, of which the universe consist of roughly 8 layers of densities/dimension. From this plane, it is also possible to 'see' the purpose of reincarnation as the present physical form. Time is different from that plane as compared to this physical one is because that plane has access to all incarnations simultaneously, but the manifestation (of its intentions) must stepdown onto the lower planes.
Beyond the 6th density, there is no mental formation to talk about or describe, in human terms.
My understanding is that everybody will experience similar thing if they access a similar jhana plane. This plane although very fine by comparision to gross mental formation, can have a subtle sense-of-self, if its Beingness is not understood.
Regards and, of course, don't take these words literally...
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:Buddha statues are made by human hands like a claypot.
Why bow down the the creation we made out of our hands?
We made it and we bow down to our creation?
Wads the difference between bowing down to a buddha and a claypot both r lifeless and handmade.
Y dont bow down to TV ?
weather u or worship or respect a statue . does a statues deserve worship or respect ?
does not the sculptor deserves mroe worship or respect ? He made it. Worship him . or respect him .haha LOL.
I was dumb to bow down to it lastime but I wont do it anymore.
If you do not know why we bow to Buddha, please do not comment. I know I bow to Buddha out of respect and remind me of his teachings.
Are you trying to say that the statue of Jesus and the cross in churches are made by God ? Think before you talk or you will look like a fool. Didn't you see the statue of Jesus or images of Jesus right in front of you when you pray in churches ? May be you can ask your church to remove it if you don't like the sight of statue as you find them stupid.
omg the talk is still on.
forum moderator pls lock it .
imagine when it hits ten pages.
Sorry for the inconvinience caused.
Sorry I admit i hate buddhism stuff But I promised i wont slander buddhism on this forum.
I cannot say I like buddhism because I would be lying.
But i promised I will stop posting slandering speech here.
PLs lock this thread.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:If you do not know why we bow to Buddha, please do not comment. I know I bow to Buddha out of respect and remind me of his teachings.
Are you trying to say that the statue of Jesus and the cross in churches are made by God ? Think before you talk or you will look like a fool. Didn't you see the statue of Jesus or images of Jesus right in front of you when you pray in churches ? May be you can ask your church to remove it if you don't like the sight of statue as you find them stupid.
I apologise for my speech.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I apologise for my speech.
You are forgiven because you are being brainwashed by pastor like Rony Tan. Don't just listen to what is being said, observe, find out and think logically. To me, I also don't like the idea of salvation by grace and having both good and bad people in heaven, it makes no difference from earth. It does not sound logical to me as well.
How to be happy if you are living in a palace with evil people around. Listen to Buddha, anybody can be born in heaven, JUST BE GOOD. To be born in heaven is not the ultimate aim of Buddhists.
Originally posted by longchen:I also have similar meditative experiences.
My own opinion is that this may correspond to a higher jhana plane. In newage term (for newage guys reading this forum..), this may correspond to roughly the 6th density, of which the universe consist of roughly 8 layers of densities/dimension. From this plane, it is also possible to 'see' the purpose of reincarnation as the present physical form. Time is different from that plane as compared to this physical one is because that plane has access to all incarnations simultaneously, but the manifestation (of its intentions) must stepdown onto the lower planes.
Beyond the 6th density, there is no mental formation to talk about or describe, in human terms.
My understanding is that everybody will experience similar thing if they access a similar jhana plane. This plane although very fine by comparision to gross mental formation, can have a subtle sense-of-self, if its Beingness is not understood.
Regards and, of course, don't take these words literally...
I see.. interesting, thanks.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
You are forgiven because you are being brainwashed by pastor like Rony Tan. Don't just listen to what is being said, observe, find out and think logically. To me, I also don't like the idea of salvation by grace and having both good and bad people in heaven, it makes no difference from earth. It does not sound logical to me as well.How to be happy if you are living in a palace with evil people around. Listen to Buddha, anybody can be born in heaven, JUST BE GOOD. To be born in heaven is not the ultimate aim of Buddhists.
Well said...
I won't close the topic just because of this issue, but I'm sure Buddhists won't make a big fuss out of it.
remarking on symbols, Buddha statues has some kind of positive energy engendered in them due to the faith and sacredness of the worshippers... although it is said that Buddha statues are reminders of our innate Buddha nature and so on... but it could also be said that the statues themselves are also deep sources of blessings and can be indeed be considered inseparable from the Buddhas themselves.
In times of pure perception and faith, statues arise spontaneously out of rocks and so on... and statues come alive and give advice. This is a very frequent occurence in India / Tibet.
AEN, thanks the post you made on Maha Brahma is helpful. I did not know that the suttas had info on this area, although previously have heard some info on this area, but all hearsay, not actual sutta quotations.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
You are forgiven because you are being brainwashed by pastor like Rony Tan. Don't just listen to what is being said, observe, find out and think logically. To me, I also don't like the idea of salvation by grace and having both good and bad people in heaven, it makes no difference from earth. It does not sound logical to me as well.How to be happy if you are living in a palace with evil people around. Listen to Buddha, anybody can be born in heaven, JUST BE GOOD. To be born in heaven is not the ultimate aim of Buddhists.
I believe in God. because the universe is so complex someone must have created it.
I believed in salvation by grace .
because i think one sin u did u go hell forever. Good hard to define. we cursed ppl , scold vulgar etc i dun think there's any gd person. lustful thoughts so i believed in sinful nature as well. we children already snatched toys. the nature is there already. but children have limited ability to know from right from wrong.
thats my idea.
I apologised because i remember my pastor told me dun slander other ppl's religion.
then i felt remosrful.
I forgoten abt it so i slandered buddhism.
some churches dun believe in slandering other ppl's religion when sharing gospel around.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I believe in God. because the universe is so complex someone must have created it.I believed in salvation by grace .
because i think one sin u did u go hell forever. Good hard to define. we cursed ppl , scold vulgar etc i dun think there's any gd person. lustful thoughts so i believed in sinful nature as well. we children already snatched toys. the nature is there already. but children have limited ability to know from right from wrong.
thats my idea.
I apologised because i remember my pastor told me dun slander other ppl's religion.
then i felt remosrful.
I forgoten abt it so i slandered buddhism.
some churches dun believe in slandering other ppl's religion when sharing gospel around.
hi ironfist
there's no need for anyone of us to comment on your beliefs. there's pointers everywhere in this forum.
im happy for you that ur in a good church with a balanced pastor. if the teachings help you to be good then its good for you.
i wish u well :)
Originally posted by geis:hi ironfist
there's no need for anyone of us to comment on your beliefs. there's pointers everywhere in this forum.
im happy for you that ur in a good church with a balanced pastor. if the teachings help you to be good then its good for you.
i wish u well :)
ok
I lied lesser , swear lesser, curse ppl lesser , forgive ppl more.
so the teachigns are useful to me.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I believe in God. because the universe is so complex someone must have created it.I believed in salvation by grace .
because i think one sin u did u go hell forever. Good hard to define. we cursed ppl , scold vulgar etc i dun think there's any gd person. lustful thoughts so i believed in sinful nature as well. we children already snatched toys. the nature is there already. but children have limited ability to know from right from wrong.
thats my idea.
I apologised because i remember my pastor told me dun slander other ppl's religion.
then i felt remosrful.
I forgoten abt it so i slandered buddhism.
some churches dun believe in slandering other ppl's religion when sharing gospel around.
No one will go to hell forever, just like no one will stay in heaven forever. In Buddhism, good and bad are well defined.
Buddhists need not to be perfect to go to heaven or Buddha's Pureland but must meet the minimum requirements. I shall not go into details on what are the minimum requirements as you are not a Buddhist.
You are right, this world is complex. Your God is a loving God, He will not create a world full of sufferings, natural disasters and human beings who have no defence against diseases.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I believe in God. because the universe is so complex someone must have created it.
you believe but I dun believe in god. creationist theories has been around since the ancient past for the past few thousand years, even earlier than christianity and judaism. science is starting to reveal the intracacies of the universe slowly and gradually. if you are interested, please read the post I posted recently on god idea by k sri dhammananda.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:Sorry I admit i hate buddhism stuff But I promised i wont slander buddhism on this forum.
I cannot say I like buddhism because I would be lying.
But i promised I will stop posting slandering speech here.
PLs lock this thread.
its people like you and pastor rony tan that people started hating christianity. that says a lot about your faith, thanks for proving that once again.
Hi Iron Fist
Great to see that you did apologise to the people on this forum for your harsh comment. Understand from your profile that you are from I Kuan Dao family.
Anyway as an ex Christian, I do understand how you feel. You desire very much to convert the people to your new found faith. You are like a modern day "St Paul". However, do consider what the bible said," Proverbs 19:2
It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way." Next, Jesus overcome his enemies through his acts of love and compassion. Even in Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. .James 2:26 ,"so faith without deeds is dead." Well is good that you consider living your new found faith life through your actions. 1 Timothy 4:12 ,"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."
Hence I hope you will consider my suggestion to stop putting down other's belief despite of the fact that you disagree with it. Chinese has a good saying, the World is so big, there a lot of things which is beyond human comprehension.
Recently I bounce into my ex church mate, who was trying to shuffle the gospel truth into me. Well as usual, I just smile and listen. Subsequently, she start to lead me into evangelical question and answer with the creation theory etc. I just told her, "Well you believe in a God creating this world. I need to respect your belief. It will not make a difference to me. Respect mean I can choose neither to disprove nor agree with you." She was confused and dumbfound. She just pray in tongue under her breathe. I ask her,"If one fine day, God told you there is no such place called HELL. Would you continue to LOVE and SERVE HIM." She could not really answer me but start to quote scripture. Perhaps she did not ever reflect on this controverse point.
As Bishop John Sponge Shelby(Why Christianity must change)," most churches taught absolutism, there is little room for relativism." (available in the library).
My 2 cents consideration. Do consider not to accept everything from the preacher as the gospel truth even they are from Mega Church capable of performing signs and wonders. Do learn and see the truth for yourself. There are many people attending churches for various motive. With this I end........
Gassho
Originally posted by reborn76:Hi Iron Fist
Great to see that you did apologise to the people on this forum for your harsh comment. Understand from your profile that you are from I Kuan Dao family.
Anyway as an ex Christian, I do understand how you feel. You desire very much to convert the people to your new found faith. You are like a modern day "St Paul". However, do consider what the bible said," Proverbs 19:2
It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way." Next, Jesus overcome his enemies through his acts of love and compassion. Even in Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. .James 2:26 ,"so faith without deeds is dead." Well is good that you consider living your new found faith life through your actions. 1 Timothy 4:12 ,"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."Hence I hope you will consider my suggestion to stop putting down other's belief despite of the fact that you disagree with it. Chinese has a good saying, the World is so big, there a lot of things which is beyond human comprehension.
Recently I bounce into my ex church mate, who was trying to shuffle the gospel truth into me. Well as usual, I just smile and listen. Subsequently, she start to lead me into evangelical question and answer with the creation theory etc. I just told her, "Well you believe in a God creating this world. I need to respect your belief. It will not make a difference to me. Respect mean I can choose neither to disprove nor agree with you." She was confused and dumbfound. She just pray in tongue under her breathe. I ask her,"If one fine day, God told you there is no such place called HELL. Would you continue to LOVE and SERVE HIM." She could not really answer me but start to quote scripture. Perhaps she did not ever reflect on this controverse point.
As Bishop John Sponge Shelby(Why Christianity must change)," most churches taught absolutism, there is little room for relativism." (available in the library).
My 2 cents consideration. Do consider not to accept everything from the preacher as the gospel truth even they are from Mega Church capable of performing signs and wonders. Do learn and see the truth for yourself. There are many people attending churches for various motive. With this I end........
Gassho
the tian dao one is my frenz . he din use this acct anymore.
My family has no tian dao background.
My family lastime is buddhist grandma , mother father free thinker , me lastime grandma ask me recite sutra gt recite but certainly nt buddhsit . grandpa taoists.
Now parents christians le.
I wont post anti buddhsit stuff on this forum de relax .
this rooney is funny. I go where he go where. Isnt that against buddhism teachings ?
stop following my posts.
Originally posted by reborn76:Hi Iron Fist
Great to see that you did apologise to the people on this forum for your harsh comment. Understand from your profile that you are from I Kuan Dao family.
Anyway as an ex Christian, I do understand how you feel. You desire very much to convert the people to your new found faith. You are like a modern day "St Paul". However, do consider what the bible said," Proverbs 19:2
It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way." Next, Jesus overcome his enemies through his acts of love and compassion. Even in Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. .James 2:26 ,"so faith without deeds is dead." Well is good that you consider living your new found faith life through your actions. 1 Timothy 4:12 ,"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity."Hence I hope you will consider my suggestion to stop putting down other's belief despite of the fact that you disagree with it. Chinese has a good saying, the World is so big, there a lot of things which is beyond human comprehension.
Recently I bounce into my ex church mate, who was trying to shuffle the gospel truth into me. Well as usual, I just smile and listen. Subsequently, she start to lead me into evangelical question and answer with the creation theory etc. I just told her, "Well you believe in a God creating this world. I need to respect your belief. It will not make a difference to me. Respect mean I can choose neither to disprove nor agree with you." She was confused and dumbfound. She just pray in tongue under her breathe. I ask her,"If one fine day, God told you there is no such place called HELL. Would you continue to LOVE and SERVE HIM." She could not really answer me but start to quote scripture. Perhaps she did not ever reflect on this controverse point.
As Bishop John Sponge Shelby(Why Christianity must change)," most churches taught absolutism, there is little room for relativism." (available in the library).
My 2 cents consideration. Do consider not to accept everything from the preacher as the gospel truth even they are from Mega Church capable of performing signs and wonders. Do learn and see the truth for yourself. There are many people attending churches for various motive. With this I end........
Gassho
I tell u no religion can have all their believers shutting up and nt slandering people.
such things do happen.
My fav stall in boon lay market where i go buy meat She is a taoist and her son is a buddhist. He also tell his mom not to sell meat.
she dun agree her son also scold. remember she is a toaist duabeigong. taoist do nt really believe in karma of killing animals. also scold each other's religion.
funny right ?
My church has one the old lady converted to christian but the family quarrel over buddhist or christian. both sides scold each other religion too.
since the deceased has converted y dun respect her decisions.
eventually the deceased do buddhist funeral because the family voted more on buddhsit funeral.
they wanna do buddhist to make better conditions for rebirth., also ended up quarrelling.
things do happen.
my ex colleagues family quarrel over taoist or buddhist ritual too. also ended up scold each other religion.
When there are religions they r bound to be conflicts.
there are some buddhsit who slandered christianality in eternal hope too.
If u think pastor rony tan is the only one who slandered you r wrong.
it's just that he did it more openly.
He is still wrong in slandering .
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Well said...
I won't close the topic just because of this issue, but I'm sure Buddhists won't make a big fuss out of it.
better close it in case it goes on .
Originally posted by Rooney9:its people like you and pastor rony tan that people started hating christianity. that says a lot about your faith, thanks for proving that once again.
If you do what he does does it make any difference ?
I known a south Korean frenz who has these problems too devout buddhist fighting with devout christians.
His father's dharma centre master also criticise christianality .
As u see there's some religious problems in South korea too.
They also fight with stuff like funeral etc beliefs.