Originally posted by Spnw07:Wow, good work there, dawnfirstlight. =)
I wish I had met Buddhists like you when my family was half Buddhist, half taoist many years ago.
You even tried to talk to Yi Guan Dao? That's really some courage there. By the way from what I have researched about Yi Guan Dao, the followers seem to believe in a Supreme God which is in every aspect above Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.
My church have members from there too tian dao/ yi guan dao .
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:An eternal now y dun u teach me how to deal with my buddhsit frenz and relatives?
they are hard to deal with .
What did they tell you?
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:An eternal now y dun u teach me how to deal with my buddhsit frenz and relatives?
they are hard to deal with .
Iron fist,
wow, u mean you used to recite the diamond sutra/ heart sutra? many people had miraculous response from that... i myself love that sutra... one of my acquaintance, she is a folk-religion-taoist medium (tang-kee), she recite this sutra everyday. Until her sutra text gave rise to strong smell of sandalwood naturally...
you definitely have positive roots. one day will ripen, despite your trying not to... heehee.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Iron fist,wow, u mean you used to recite the diamond sutra/ heart sutra? many people had miraculous response from that... i myself love that sutra... one of my acquaintance, she is a folk-religion-taoist medium (tang-kee), she recite this sutra everyday. Until her sutra text gave rise to strong smell of sandalwood naturally...
you definitely have positive roots. one day will ripen, despite your trying not to... heehee.
when I young i recited.
heart sutra is easier 250 words. i can memorsied that time.
diamond sutra due to the length my grandma guided me.
I din memorised that.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What did they tell you?
dun eat so much meat gt bad karma
some buddhism beliefs like rebirth ertc six realms many other
they asked me read buddhism books too. read less bible
they said i got bad roots so i dun understand buddhism. Xia Xia Geng ppl
n other rude stuff.
well when i went to church i dun believe initially but there's many miracles like every month got alot.
then my skin problems healed .
then i believed.
when young gt do the muyu also beat with stick one.
drum exercise haha lol funny.
just throw away the muyu from storeroom during new year spring cleaning.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:well when i went to church i dun believe initially but there's many miracles like every month got alot.
then my skin problems healed .
then i believed.
IF miracles can happen almost every month, please tell your pastor or whoever doing the healing to open a clinic please..."miracles" in religions are overused.
Originally posted by RoyFang:IF miracles can happen almost every month, please tell your pastor or whoever doing the healing to open a clinic please..."miracles" in religions are overused.
thats y i believed ma.
at first i dun believe when i go.of coz nt all ppl expirienced miracles but i seen a decent no of such miracles.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Iron fist,wow, u mean you used to recite the diamond sutra/ heart sutra? many people had miraculous response from that... i myself love that sutra... one of my acquaintance, she is a folk-religion-taoist medium (tang-kee), she recite this sutra everyday. Until her sutra text gave rise to strong smell of sandalwood naturally...
you definitely have positive roots. one day will ripen, despite your trying not to... heehee.
what are roots ? my buddhist aquintances said i xia xia geng. so rude de.
low roots. I think i dun need roots . haha
Geng is root in english right ?
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
dun eat so much meat gt bad karmasome buddhism beliefs like rebirth ertc six realms many other
they asked me read buddhism books too. read less bible
they said i got bad roots so i dun understand buddhism. Xia Xia Geng ppl
n other rude stuff.
1) tell them tibetan and thai monks eat meat. dont eat meat is only in yi guan dao, buddhism allows eating meat, though mahayana encourages (but not a must) vegetarianism
2) tell them by that logic they should read bible too
3) you can ask them back if they imply they themselves are shang shang geng ppl
Hi Wisdomeye
Your question: Why did I convert to Buddhism? .....
In my teenage years, I used to attend charismatic church with a circle like minded Christian peers. At that point in time, it was fun and hippy if you would compare it to a temple when it was rather boring and dull.
I was a very stauch Christian after my first baptism of holy spirit with initial sign of speaking in tongue due to my friend demonic possession case. Of course, I was affected by the incident which further convince me that I need to go for my water baptism. Against my mum will I went ahead with the decision. In the years to come, I was very deeply rooted in the church activities.
The initial change was when I went oversea for my further studies. Being away from my Christian peers. I have a lot of time for myself. I begin to read a Buddhist book written by Dalai Lama without the typical "demonic connotation". I used to sneer at Buddha thought as pessimistic teaching especially the 1st noble truth. In life there is suffering. However, when I am on my own after all the busy activities socialising, exam prep and etc. I realise the profoundity of this simple truth. After all, you do not need to be Buddha to realise that. Beside Buddha did not claim that you need to believe in him in order for the truth to be realised. The more I reflect on the 1st and 2nd noble truths. The more I being to appreciate Buddha teaching. Of course, in the midst of all this self reflection, I still continue to serve and attend church due to my connection. In fact, I had a dream when an evil unseen being was going after me. I was very frightened that I start to cast the being away in god's name. For some reason, it did not go away and suddenly I chanted, "Namu Guan Shi Yin Pusa." The being stop his approach and I was awake. I wonder how can I chant that when I have been attending church for 10 years. Something spiritual is awaking within me.
The utlimate turning point was when I came back from oversea. To me there was nothing wrong being a Christian and Buddhist. After all, it is quite common in the west as Buddhist is a practice not a religion. However, due to my family's concern I decided to make the choice. Which mean I might lose a group of Christian social peers due to their lack of understanding. Of course, I did receive the typical anti Buddhist sneers and comment from them but I can't be bother. To me if you are my friend then you need to respect my choice.
Eversince I begin to embark my Buddhist journey from the basic Theravada Buddhism to Mahanayana. As I was always looking out for the ultimate sutra to be used for my practise, in the end I settle for Lotus Sutra which co insight with the dream I mentioned. If you happend to read, Chapter 25 of Lotus Sutra, "Universal door" you will realise how compassionate Guan Yin is to all sentient beings both believer and non believer in assisting us. Well I would like to thanks those little things that happened along the way to lead me to where I am. I am still learning.
If you ask me, do I miss the church. Yes, I still enjoy some of the smoothing songs. Well I think Buddhist temple, do need to change some of the style to cater to the needs of youth. Some temple or group has already embarked on the change process.
May Buddha out of compassion continue to raise up more Earth Spring Bodhisattvas to lead Singapore Buddhist to a new height.
Gassho
Namu Myo Ho Renge Kyo
the so called miracles or faith healing are placebo effect. so it is not a miracle after all. if you can get your skin diseases cured at your church and since god is so almighty, can get cancer, heart and HIV patients convert to christianity and get them cured in church?
Buddha never used his powers to cure illnesses and neither did he used it to impress people so that they may follow his teachings. there is no need to do that as you need to realise the truth yourself. The Buddha said he is a teacher only, you yourself need to walk the path and realised the truth yourself.
Originally posted by RoyFang:IF miracles can happen almost every month, please tell your pastor or whoever doing the healing to open a clinic please..."miracles" in religions are overused.
its a placebo effect. there are research on this topic. its not so a miracle after all.if got miracle, why not get to cure those people who have cancer? since can cure skin diseases, why not perform a miracle to cure those who have cancer?
I watched a tv documentary on sai baba. sai baba once used to perform a trick, where he conjured a gold out of nothing. a critic said if he can made a gold out of nothing, why not made gold for the poor and give it to them? Yes he is right. if he can make gold out of nothing, why not made gold and distribute it to all the poor in the world, esp Africa.
if rely on miracles or faith healing, there is no need to study so hard for a medical degree. no need to carry out research to find cure for cancer and HIV virus. spend so much money and effort on this, why not use miracles instead?
there is no need to go see doctor when you are sick, just go to church and have it cured by miracle. when you have cancer, no need to go to hospital to have surgery or have chemotherapy cos church got miracle and can have you cured.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:when I young i recited.
heart sutra is easier 250 words. i can memorsied that time.
diamond sutra due to the length my grandma guided me.
I din memorised that.
that is rote learning. whats the use if you do not understand what was being said?
anyone can do rote learning, even a 7 year old child can do it.
for someone who hated Buddhism (due to ignorance and ill will as taught by the Buddha), I dunno what is there to discuss about here when in your mind, Buddhism is a satanic sect. I reckoned in your mind, SATAN masqueraded as the Buddha and so are other religions as well, including their founder.
Actually I pity them as they are trapped within their own paradigm and teachings. Buddha has taught to his followers that they too also need to let go of the dhamma. He gave this parable. once you crossed the river, will you still want to carry the shaft/boat with you once you reached the destination? for someone who is enlightened and one who rely on a divine being for teachings, there is a huge difference here. an enlightened being is no more deluded and have rid himself of ill will, craving and ignorance. the latter is still deluded and is further away from the truth. the so called truth he received is not his, but from an external source.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:
I tell u no religion can have all their believers shutting up and nt slandering people.
such things do happen.
My fav stall in boon lay market where i go buy meat She is a taoist and her son is a buddhist. He also tell his mom not to sell meat.
she dun agree her son also scold. remember she is a toaist duabeigong. taoist do nt really believe in karma of killing animals. also scold each other's religion.
funny right ?
My church has one the old lady converted to christian but the family quarrel over buddhist or christian. both sides scold each other religion too.
since the deceased has converted y dun respect her decisions.
eventually the deceased do buddhist funeral because the family voted more on buddhsit funeral.
they wanna do buddhist to make better conditions for rebirth., also ended up quarrelling.
things do happen.
my ex colleagues family quarrel over taoist or buddhist ritual too. also ended up scold each other religion.
When there are religions they r bound to be conflicts.
there are some buddhsit who slandered christianality in eternal hope too.
Hello Ironfist,
First I hope in the future you do not use the words such as:
Hate, Slander and Bash in vain.
You are a christian and your god is "love", which is good, and "hate", the opposite of love is "evil', therefore bad. Your body is the temple of god,so if you are unable to love and can only hate, there not much god inside you is'nt it?!
Slander is making false accusations and bashing is to verbally hit with violence.
Just because you do not like what people are saying does'nt neccessarily make it false, just only proves you don't like like it. To prove slander, you must prove the statements made untrue!
Comments made in other forums, I do not read, anyway, I am not my blubber's keeper!
To answer your first statement about the buddhist son who scolded the mother for selling meat. The son had the right intentions,perhaps like you, meaning well, but he lacked the skillfull means to go about it, Buddhism is also about skillful means if you do not know.
Anyway, he do not understand what livelihood really means, it means you need it to survive, therefore cannot abandon it just like that! That why right livelihood is important, because we cannot change it easily, especially if you are old.
The problem for non christians with christians is some of them are self righteous, pay lips service about love and do not respect other people religion. As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong, christians are the only religion I know in Singapore to harass dying people in hospitals.
Religion is an identity, a sense of belonging to, so many people including lay buddhist is sensitive to it. Many taoist and buddhist or even christians are nominal one, eg. they are born in a family of that religion. Most of the time it is the sense belonging they are trying to protect, not really the religion! Just like you trying defend your religion without fully understand what people writng about!
Like I said about slandering and bashing, have you been reading what the articles are trying to say?!
Yes, Rony Tan is not the only one, but he is a community leader, who instead fostering better community ties, just to promote his religion, is tearing up a multicultural Singapore, and what do you know, he is slandering,because he can be proven false!
If somebody is lying once, you may dismiss it, but if you allow him continuously say the same lies over and over again, then people start to take it as gospel truth. Do you wish to see Singaporeans fighting in the streets?!
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Initially, when we do not know about their level of understanding of Buddhism, we may praise them by saying, “Oh! You have such good affinity with Buddha and Bodhisattva that you can even see their images!” But it is wrong if we always praise them like this. If they report dreams like this for more then 3 times, you have to tell them, “The Mara is here, you have seen the Mara! All the Zen masters advise to obliterate the Buddha when the Buddha appears, and obliterate the Mara when the Mara appears [1].” We cannot praise them any more because they have already developed an attachment to forms.
Oh this part is very.... somehow very meaningful to me....
haha...
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:I known a south Korean frenz who has these problems too devout buddhist fighting with devout christians.
His father's dharma centre master also criticise christianality .
As u see there's some religious problems in South korea too.
They also fight with stuff like funeral etc beliefs.
If anybody criticizes you, what you' re doing or criticize your religion, it is natural to get angry.
For a buddhist, it is a good opportunity to reflect for sometimes we are self absorbed and forget what we are doing. People always quarrel over things other than the real reason anyway, in this instance, I am generalising, just like you do!
And for what it is worth, the people over here engage you with honesty and sincerity, whenever possible, reply you with a counter answer, do you not agree?
Hi xXIron_fistXx,
i prefer buddhism because.... somehow the books i read is still applicable to our daily life. I mean I can experience it in my life. Not something that I disagree i will appear as profane or something.. So far i still thinks it hold logic... and everything rises from our mind... the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin.... all desire something pleasant... something good... then our mind would start acting on it... without realising it... not realising whether will it hurt other people in the process... all buddha has taught is something very close to our daily life that we never notice.
Maybe Christianity is suitable for you. We are all like eating buffet and we choose which food we like to eat. LOL.
If we can all respect differences wouldnt that be great? U can meet Jesus and I go buddhist paradise meet my buddhist friends for tea. (Just joking LOL)
==Miraculous Power ==
If a wicked man can become a pure religious man, this according to Buddhism, is a practical miracle.
To those who say why pray or worship an idol which is made of clay, wood or gold, here is the reply to your query.
Are Buddhists Idol Worshippers?
Buddhists are not idol worshippers but ideal worshippers.
Although it is customary amongst Buddhists to keep Buddha images and to pay their respects to the Buddha, Buddhists are not idol worshippers. Idolatry generally means erecting images of unknown gods and goddesses in various shapes and sizes and to pray directly to these images. The prayers are a request to the gods for guidance and protection. The gods and goddesses are asked to bestow health, wealth, property and to provide for various needs; they are asked to forgive transgressions. The 'worshipping' at the Buddha image is quite a different matter. Buddhists revere the image of the Buddha as a gesture to the greatest, wisest, most benevolent, compassionate and holy man who has ever lived in this world. It is a historical fact that this great man actually lived in this world and has done a great service to mankind. The worship of the Buddha really means paying homage, veneration and devotion to Him and what He represents, and not to the stone or metal figure. The image is a visual aid that helps one to recall the Buddha in the mind and to remember His great qualities which inspired millions of people from generation to generation throughout the civilized world. Buddhists use the statue as a symbol and as an object of concentration to gain a peace of mind. When Buddhists look upon the image of the Buddha, they put aside thoughts of strife and think only of peace, serenity, calmness and tranquillity. The statue enables the mind to recall this great man and inspires devotees to follow His example and instructions. In their mind, the devout Buddhists feel the living presence of the Master. This feeling makes their act of worship become vivid and significant. The serenity of the Buddha image influences and inspires them to observe the right path of conduct and thought.
An understanding Buddhist never asks favours from the image nor does he request forgiveness for evil deeds committed. An understanding Buddhist tries to control his mind, to follow the Buddha's advice, to get rid of worldly miseries and to find his salvation. Those who criticize Buddhists for practising idol worship are really misinterpreting what Buddhists do. If people can keep the photographs of their parents and grandparents to cherish in their memory, if people can keep the photographs of kings, queens, prime ministers, great heroes, philosophers, and poets, there is certainly no reason why Buddhists cannot keep their beloved Master's picture or image to remember and respect Him. What harm is there if people recite some verses praising the great qualities of their Master? If people can lay wreaths on the graves of beloved ones to express their gratitude, what harm is there is Buddhists too offer some flowers, joss-sticks, incense, etc., to their beloved Teacher who devoted His life to help suffering humanity? People make statues of certain conquering heroes who were in fact murderers and who were responsible for the death of millions of innocent people. For the sake of power, these conquerors committed murder with hatred, cruelty and greed. They invaded poor countries and created untold suffering by taking away lands and properties of others, and causing much destruction. Many of these conquerors are regarded as national heroes; memorial services are conducted for them and flowers are offered on their graves and tombs. What is wrong then, if Buddhists pay their respects to their world honored Teacher who sacrificed His worldly pleasures for the sake of Enlightenment to show others the Path of Salvation? Images are the language of the subconscious. Therefore, the image of the Enlightened One is often created within one's mind as the embodiment of perfection, the image will deeply penetrate into the subconscious mind and (if it is sufficiently strong enough)can act as an automatic brake against impulses. The recollection of the Buddha produces joy, invigorate the mind and elevates man from states of restlessness, tension and frustration. Thus the worship of the Buddha is not a prayer in its usual sense but a meditation. Therefore, it is not idol worship, but 'ideal' worship. Thus Buddhists can find fresh strength to build a shrine of their lives. They cleanse their hearts until they feel worthy to bear the image in their innermost shrine. Buddhists pay respects to the great person who is represented by the image. They try to gain inspiration from His Noble personality and emulate Him. Buddhists do not see the Buddha image as a dead idol of wood or metal or clay. The image represents something vibrant to those who understand and are purified in thought, word and deed. The Buddha images are nothing more than symbolic representations of His great qualities. It is not unnatural that the deep respect for the Buddha should be expressed in some of the finest and most beautiful forms of art and sculpture the world has ever known. It is difficult to understand why some people look down on those who pay respect to images which represent holy religious teachers.
The calm and serene image of the Buddha has been a common concept of ideal beauty. The Buddha's image is the most precious, common asset of Asian cultures. Without the image of the Buddha, where can we find a serene, radiant and spiritually emancipated personality? But the image of the Buddha is appreciated not only by Asian or Buddhists. Anatole France in his autobiography writes, 'On the first of May, 1890, chance led me to visit the Museum in Paris. There standing in the silence and simplicity of the gods of Asia, my eyes fell on the statue of the Buddha who beckoned to suffering humanity to develop understanding and compassion. If ever a god walked on this earth, I felt here was He. I felt like kneeling down to Him and praying to Him as to a God. Once a general left an image of the Buddha as a legacy to Winston Churchill. The general said, 'if ever your mind gets perturbed and perplexed, I want you to see this image and be comforted.' What is it that makes the message of the Buddha so attractive to people who have cultivated their intellect? Perhaps the answer can be seen in the serenity of the image of the Buddha. Not only in color and line did men express their faith in the Buddha and the graciousness of His Teaching. Human hands wrought in metal and stone to produce the Buddha image that is one of the greatest creations of the human genius. Witness the famous image in the Abhayagiri Vihara in Sri Lanka, or the Buddha image of Sarnath or the celebrated images of Borobudur. The eyes are full of compassion and the hands express fearlessness, or goodwill and blessings, or they unravel some thread of thought or call the earth to witness His great search for Truth. Wherever the Dhamma went, the image of the great Teacher went with it, not only as an object of worship but also as an object of meditation and reverence. 'I known nothing,'says Keyserling,' more grand in this world than the figure of the Buddha. It is an absolutely perfect embodiment of spirituality in the visible domain.'
A life so beautiful, a heart so pure and kind, a mind so deep and enlightened, a personality so inspiring and selfless -- such a perfect life, such a compassionate heart, such a calm mind, such a serene personality is really worthy of respect, worthy of honour and worthy of offering. The Buddha is the highest perfection of mankind. The Buddha image is the symbol, not of a person, but of Buddhahood -- that to which all men can attain though few do. For Buddhahood is not for one but for many: 'The Buddhas of the past ages, the Buddhas that are yet to come, the Buddha of the present age; humbly I each day adore.' However, it is not compulsory for every Buddhist to have a Buddha image to practise Buddhism. Those who can control their mind and the senses, can certainly do so without an image as an object. If Buddhists truly wish to behold the Buddha in all the majestic splendor and beauty of His ideal presence, they must translate His Teachings into practice in their daily lives. It is in the practice of His Teachings that they can come closer to Him and feel the wonderful radiance of His undying wisdom and compassion. Simply respecting the images without following His Sublime Teachings is not the way to find salvation. We must also endeavor to understand the spirit of the Buddha. His Teaching is the only way to save this troubled world. In spite of the tremendous advantages of science and technology, people in the world today are filled with fear, anxiety and despair. The answer to our troubled world is found in the Teaching of the Buddha.
Originally posted by xXIron_fistXx:I indeed chanted it before. all 32 chapters of diamond sutra and heart sutra.
The problem is my grandma asked me to do ah.
she guided me with the recitation.
when i young i also gt bow to buddha ah. my grandma gt bring me go buddhist places.
refuge i think my grandma when i young gt bring me take refuge. my parents no religion so they din care.
I gt no buddhist knowledge. I so young that time.
But sometimes i am really angry when i met my buddhist frenz or relatvies they challoenged me to solve Koan .
they do scold me sometimes. I din even evangelise them.
this is certainly true.
One will not become a true Buddhist just by chanting. Buddhism is not about chanting. 佛法是心法. You have chanted Diamond Sutra (金刚�). Do you know why it is called 金刚� and what it is being said ?
I believe your relatives are concerned for you, it is only that they express it in the wrong manner. Anyway, since now you are already a Christian, my advise to you is to be good. If you read the bible correctly, Jesus mentioned only those who are good are allowed to enter the heaven.
If you ever read the obituaries in Straits Times, have you ever wondered why miracles do not work on every christians ? Of course, dying of old age is a natural process but what about the young ones ? You are one of the lucky one that miracles healing work on you.
hey dawn why you talk to a young little girl who is ignorant and does not respect other religions one. all christians are like that one lar, say ur satanic or u r going to hell. to hell with their nonsense I tell you. if got god, ask them to proof it.