Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Actually the purpose of Buddhism is not to climb to a higher realm. In Buddhism we recognise that *all* conditioned existence is bound up by suffering, birth and death, that even if he entered into the highest jhanic and formless dimension of existence and absorption, which natural lifespan can be billions of years, eventually one will drop back to other realms. In other words one has not overcome the uncontrolled cycle of rebirth.
Thus Buddhism actually seeks to *end* uncontrolled rebirth, rather than a rebirth in a higher realm of existence.
Also, Buddhism recognise the existence of gods, but we do not worship them because they are still beings in samsara. ('Buddhists' that worship gods are usually not Buddhists but Chinese tradition worshippers) Buddhists do pay their respects to Buddha, but not exactly the same as 'worship' - we treat Buddha as our greatest teacher.
As for whether liberation is achievable in 1 lifetime, I say it is possible. I personally know of people today who have achieved this. Is it easy? Well, it is not exactly easy, but not unachievable. Many people that I know today have reached various stages of enlightenment, and a few of them have indeed achieved liberation. These are just those that I know, there are many more that I do not know.
In Theravada, those who achieve liberation simply enters into cessation. In Mahayana, such liberation is not the end and the Buddhas will eventually 'wake' such beings back to continue their path to full Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. In Mahayana, bodhisattvas are liberated from samsara, freed from all sufferings, yet continues their path in samsara to guide beings to liberation.
Just curious, for people whom you know who achieved liberation in 1 lifetime, how do you know what exactly was their past prior to their one and only lifetime on Earth, and future path?
Imagine each lifetime as a step on a ladder, the last lifetime before enlightenment, is like the last step on the ladder, it appears as one lifetime, but it is the just the last step of ladder steps before it, just that we as outsiders, do not see the previous lifetimes.
Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Just curious, for people whom you know who achieved liberation in 1 lifetime, how do you know what exactly was their past prior to their one and only lifetime on Earth, and future path?
It could well be possible that these beings have followed a spiritual path from their past life, but I am also saying that it is definitely possible to attain liberation if one follows through the instructions.
Learning dharma is just like any subject like learning piano, you learn from those that gone through before, you practice time tested spiritual techniques, there will be a predictable pattern in how the insights unfold for those who follow a spiritual path, and by following the instructions you will attain the expected results. Whether someone is a natural talent and thus learning piano is no kick for him, or that someone does not have a natural talent but ascends at a slower rate, what is certain is that eventually they will 'master' it. Thus we cannot say that we will not be able to attain liberation in one life, it is certainly possible.
The Buddha himself assured that by practicing the 4 foundations of mindfulness, one can gain liberation or the 3rd stage of anagami in 7 days to 7 years time (though I suspect this is in a retreat setting). Personally the examples I witnessed... full liberation takes around 10 to 20 years (though I'm not saying it could be slower or faster than that, totally depends, just like whether you can graduate grade 8 in piano very quickly also depends).
There will be no future lifes for those liberated (unless they are in the Bodhisattva path).
Also if one attains the 1st stage of Sotapanna, one is assured full liberation in no more than 7 lifes (that is, if he dies before completing his path). If one attains 2nd stage of Once Returner, one is assured full liberation in no more than 1 life (that is, if he dies before completing his path). If one attains 3rd stage of Non Returner, one is assured that one will be reborn in the 4th jhana and attain arhatship there, if one dies before completing his path. And the 4th stage arhat of course, has transcended rebirth.
So what this means is that even if one does not attain full liberation, even to attain the first stage of enlightenment one is already 'in the conveyer belt' so to speak - irreversible.
Similarly in the Bodhisattva path, even though you cannot attain Buddhahood, even to attain 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva ensures one is in the conveyer belt.
Originally posted by geis:oh ok, will that lead to over-analysis?
Acknowledge your unhappiness, start with why am I unhappy? Each time I meet a doubt, eg. anger arising, I look for immediate cause, and if there is,and because I am not convinced, then I know that is not actual cause, because it does not affect "I" directly.
Just be kind to yourself, things will be easier once you have accomplish that!
Originally posted by Weychin:Imagine each lifetime as a step on a ladder, the last lifetime before enlightenment, is like the last step on the ladder, it appears as one lifetime, but it is the just the last step of ladder steps before it, just that we as outsiders, do not see the previous lifetimes.
Though I disagree that anyone on Earth now can just have 1 lifetime in total, but I shall not start a non-conclusive debate over this. As long as one feels that what one believes in makes him/her a better person, it's fine. :) But I just wish to share that every being will take many lifetimes (definitely more than 1) to learn what they need to learn before being liberated from the cycles of reincarnation, even for those very 'advanced and famous people' in the past, just that history recorded by men is limited.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Though I disagree that anyone on Earth now can just have 1 lifetime in total, but I shall not start a non-conclusive debate over this. As long as one feels that what one believes in makes him/her a better person, it's fine. :) But I just wish to share that every being will take many lifetimes (definitely more than 1) to learn what they need to learn before being liberated from the cycles of reincarnation, even for those very 'advanced and famous people' in the past, just that history recorded by men is limited.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Actually, in Buddhism, each of us have infinite past lives. Our samsaric existence is beginingless. There is no origin and beginning, we just roll on and on according to dependent origination, karma, causes and conditions.
Until we discover the dharma and become liberated.
Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Though I disagree that anyone on Earth now can just have 1 lifetime in total, but I shall not start a non-conclusive debate over this. As long as one feels that what one believes in makes him/her a better person, it's fine. :) But I just wish to share that every being will take many lifetimes (definitely more than 1) to learn what they need to learn before being liberated from the cycles of reincarnation, even for those very 'advanced and famous people' in the past, just that history recorded by men is limited.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Actually this is where Buddhism differs from new age, because we do not believe we have to 'learn all the lessons' in order to be liberated. By perceiving the luminous and empty nature of reality, we allow all our experiences and tendencies to self-liberate on its own accord.
As longchen (who used to be in new age so he knows these stuff), who I dare say is already highly enlightened (oh and btw just for your curiosity: based on his own past life memories he has been on the spiritual path for his past 3 lives, one as a tibetan monk, one as a european mystic, and now as a buddhist. He has remembered many other past lives, but not so much spirituality prior to the 3 lifetimes. Though this is the first life where he realised emptiness), says:
Hi Yunhaier,
Firstly, i would like to state that this is not definitive and it is impossible to fully describe this 'higher self/store alaya' state.
This 'state' seeks the resolution of fulfillments. Because of awareness of past lifes of the being, at that state there is the understanding of deathlessness. Therefore, death is not a concern at that level of consciousness. At that level, the seeking of resolution of 'unfinished business' drives the rebirth process..
Let me describe an example. In my previous life, I was a european soldier who participated in WW1. The war left a fearful imprint about the pain of war. 'High self/alaya' state seeks to resolve the trauma of war imprint. This drives the process of reborning in an environment where a similar scenario can be experienced. In this case, I am born in Sg who has a national service... must join army.
This joining of army is not a coincidence but is the karmic factor driven by the fear of war. A similar scenario is now manifested to recreate a similar feeling in order for the chance of resolution.
This 'higher self' is a very subtle sense of self that is different from the personality of a reborned being. Note: Experiencing this 'higher self' is not enlightenment. Note: the word 'self' is used here. Most new-age teaching will be based on this level of understanding. However, non-duality and emptiness are deeper mysteries that can still be veiled even when this 'higher self' state is being experienced.
Non-duality realisation, however, will function differently. That is, it is a turn-about insight and understands that no-separation has occured. Non-duality insight understands a deeper level of dynamics and do not seek to resolve in the typical way. It resolves by 'doing nothing'... instead of outward projection of activity.
Higher self seeks to resolve by fullfilling the desires or through whatever understanding that it has accumulated in the past life experiences... and this becomes the purpose of life. Non-duality sees a deeper dynamics at work and resolves through releasing the desires.
Do you roughly understand?
-------------
Hi RJ,
Thank you for writing and sharing. I perfectly understood what you are talking about. Karmic lessons, cycle of life and lifeplans, these are what I have meant by 'Higher self' level purposes. As said, this are the 'seed intentions' for the reincarnation. As mentioned above, this level is not really concerned about physical deaths of individual lifetimes, it is more concern about learning karmic lessons, resolution, completion of life plans and so on so forth.
There is no right or wrong. This is one perspective from a specific level.
However, may i also invite you to take a deeper evaluation of Buddhism, especially its teaching about no-self/non-duality and emptiness. We need not discard what we already know, but insights into non-duality and emptiness will give us a new perspective that may not be incompatible with what you already know. :)
I hope the other forummers are not too protective of what is Buddhism or is not. This is just my sharing with our friend.
Prior to enlightenment, there is bound to be one last, last time!
That's what ending of cessation means!
There is a very good article that talks about the various approach to resolving one's psychological issues and problems.
Very complete. Also explains how self-liberation 'works' as compared to other approaches.
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2008/11/reflection-and-presence-dialectic-of.html
Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
Maslow's theory is more suited for management studies than for spiritual growth, as we can concurrently develop different aspects of ourselves, instead of having to learn/satisfy 1 need first before proceeding to the next. Imagine the situation if everyone is only concerned with meeting their personal survival and ego needs, at the expense of every other aspect. :)Which is why a person's chosen path and actions (in current lifetime) can determine to a great extent how long (as in how many lifetimes) he/she needs to mature spiritually.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Though Maslow studies is highly used in Management, but it dealth with human behaviour, which human behaviour is a daily basis, not just too restricted to Management, it is a more general guidelines towards the daily life our emotinon.
Agreed, that spiritual path is many lifetimes, that also depending on which religion are you refering to, for Buddhism, yes. Our mind consist of the phsycial activities, mental activities and the spiritual activities, greatly if the later two could be balance, one could not achieve spiritual growth as well.
From what i know, a enlightened person will not declare that he is enlighten, if he did, there is a thing called clinging to "self". We can see or sense someone is enlighten, as the speech and thoughts are very enlightening, but that is our perception, and it is not adviceable to tell othters our perception is guarantee true.
Originally posted by Bodhi hut:
From what i know, a enlightened person will not declare that he is enlighten, if he did, there is a thing called clinging to "self". We can see or sense someone is enlighten, as the speech and thoughts are very enlightening, but that is our perception, and it is not adviceable to tell othters our perception is guarantee true.
Actually it is not true that an enlightened person cannot declare his enlightenment. (though in our culture, enlightenment is still quite taboo, so usually only close students were being informed) The Buddha declare his enlightenment, and in Buddha's times all his students' attainments are well known. As for Longchen, there is a qualified lineage teacher from the Mahasi Sayadaw tradition from who mentioned which stage of enlightenment he is at. I will not divulge the details.
Btw, it is also wrong to say that enlightened beings cannot say the word 'I'.
Enlightened beings continue to use the word 'I' for conventional uses. The Buddha said this before. So it is perfectly fine to say 'I am awakened' while simultaneously understanding that there is no self.
Rather than shrouding enlightenment in a mist of taboos, I hope people can become more open on the topic of enlightenment.
As Daniel Ingram puts it:
"Imagine a world where the dharma was just like anything else
you wanted to learn, like playing piano or mathematics. You studied with
people who were not afraid to tell you what they were capable of, you
practiced techniques that everyone expected to work, you talked honestly
with your fellow dharma adventurers about what was going and helped
each other to progress, you attained to the expected results, and when
you did so, you were not ridiculed or made to shut up about it, but
instead were viewed as one more successful practitioner of the art who
was there to support those coming up and also still learning from
others."
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Actually this is where Buddhism differs from new age, because we do not believe we have to 'learn all the lessons' in order to be liberated. By perceiving the luminous and empty nature of reality, we allow all our experiences and tendencies to self-liberate on its own accord.
As longchen (who used to be in new age so he knows these stuff), who I dare say is already highly enlightened (oh and btw just for your curiosity: based on his own past life memories he has been on the spiritual path for his past 3 lives, one as a tibetan monk, one as a european mystic, and now as a buddhist. He has remembered many other past lives, but not so much spirituality prior to the 3 lifetimes. Though this is the first life where he realised emptiness), says:
John Welwood:
The subtle spiritual pitfall of psychological work is that it can reinforce certain tendencies inherent in the conditioned personality: to see ourselves as a doer, to always look for the meaning in experience, or to continually strive for “something better.” Although psychological reflection can certainly help people move forward in important ways, at some point even the slightest desire for change or improvement can interfere with the deeper letting go and relaxation that are necessary for moving from the realm of personality into the realm of being, which is only discoverable in and through nowness – in moments when all conceptualizing and striving cease.
When we let experience be as it is, instead of seeking to alter it in any way, the focus of inner work shifts in an important and powerful way. No longer is our experience something apart from us that we need to change or resolve; instead, the focus widens to a larger field: how-we-are-with-our-experience. And when we relate to our experience in a more spacious, allowing way, it becomes less problematic, because we no longer exist in an I-It, subject-object tension with it.
Although the main aim of psychotherapy is to reduce psychological distress and increase self-understanding, rather than to overcome divided consciousness, I nonetheless felt a need to practice therapy in a way that was more congruent with the nondoing quality of meditative presence. I was also inspired in this vision by moments in my own personal work when opening to my experience just as it is has brought me into a fuller sense of presence – a kind of “being-without-agenda,” which led to a powerful sense of stillness, acceptance, and aliveness. Such moments afforded a glimpse of what lay on the other side of divided consciousness: being at-one with myself in a new and deeper way.
Me (previous thread):
While having a conversation with a friend yesterday I noticed something.
There is just one thought happening spontaneously, one action happening spontaneously at every moment.. but the sense that a 'me' led to a thought or action is actually an illusion... is also just an arising thought... therefore any effort or action to control thoughts or do anything is also the result of the illusion, theres actually just a presently arising thought. There is always only presence and spontaneous arising... theres nothing 'we' can ever do or have ever done.
The sense that theres something that must be
done to experience
presence is also really just story, actually
there is always just a
thought, an action arising in presence.. only in
concepts do we
create a sense of distance and a need and a
'doer' to fulfill
certain
things like getting rid of certain thought or
feeling to 'reach'
presence.. in direct nonconceptual looking one
sees there is just
always just presence and spontaneous arising.
(seeing that there is no 'doer' really has an effect in surrendering to the present moment/'what's spontaneously happening' instead of seeking resolution to issues/situations by 'doing')
I think there may be good reasons for enlightenment to remain shrouded.
first, it doesn't make people more anxious or goal oriented and set up all kinds of expectations, competitiveness
second, it discourages pride
third, it invites obstacles
where it is needed for such things to be made known, it has always been made known eg, declaring the next lineage holders etc.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:I think there may be good reasons for enlightenment to remain shrouded.
first, it doesn't make people more anxious or goal oriented and set up all kinds of expectations, competitiveness
second, it discourages pride
third, it invites obstacles
where it is needed for such things to be made known, it has always been made known eg, declaring the next lineage holders etc.
1) I actually see 'goal oriented' in a positive light. In fact that is one of the good things of making enlightenment less obscure: so that people know its possible, that people have done it, that ordinary people like me can do it too. Competitiveness can also become a positive force - that is, if it is a friendly healthy competition, and not one that turns relationship sour. I actually see this as good - we must use whatever emotions we have to steer us to enlightenment. Nothing wrong. If let's say my wife is becoming more enlightened than me, I will want to buck up in my practice and realise what my wife has realised! lol.. Incidentally, Daniel Ingram and others have in fact encouraged "competitive team sport" dharma friendship.
2) If one wants to be proud, he will be proud regardless of whether he announces his attainment.
3) I am not aware of any obstacles, apart from possible controversies it may cause (especially when there are all kinds of people, not everyone may be that spiritually mature, some may even be doubtful that enlightenment exists)
Thank you Weychin and AEN for the valuable advice and article.
yes such doubts are perceived as thoughts, just the content is uncanny. a closer investigation will be helpful.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:1) I actually see 'goal oriented' in a positive light. In fact that is one of the good things of making enlightenment less obscure: so that people know its possible, that people have done it, that ordinary people like me can do it too. Competitiveness can also become a positive force - that is, if it is a friendly healthy competition, and not one that turns relationship sour. I actually see this as good - we must use whatever emotions we have to steer us to enlightenment. Nothing wrong. If let's say my wife is becoming more enlightened than me, I will want to buck up in my practice! lol
2) If one wants to be proud, he will be proud regardless of whether he announces his attainment.
3) I am not aware of any obstacles, apart from possible controversies it may cause (especially when there are all kinds of people, not everyone may be that spiritually mature, some may even be doubtful that enlightenment exists)
a bit tired today... juz brief discuss ok...
1) goal oriented, will always be a problem... daily diligence no need for knowing peoples' enlightenment... there are already many examples around. Someone is ordinary or not is not easy to say. One can always think that anyone enlightened has practised in prev lives... no matter how ordinary they look
2) announce, people flock around, high attention, make you think higher of yourself. pride is greatest obstacle of practitioner.
3) other obstacles, i dun want to say too much about this part... there will be. announce more, attract more, like throwing challenge out.
think there are pros and cons to both positions.
important thing is to realize that the 3 characteristics still apply either way.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
a bit tired today... juz brief discuss ok...1) goal oriented, will always be a problem... daily diligence no need for knowing peoples' enlightenment... there are already many examples around. Someone is ordinary or not is not easy to say. One can always think that anyone enlightened has practised in prev lives... no matter how ordinary they look
2) announce, people flock around, high attention, make you think higher of yourself. pride is greatest obstacle of practitioner.
3) other obstacles, i dun want to say too much about this part... there will be. announce more, attract more, like throwing challenge out.
Many people think that practice is a very private, personal matter, and while there is some points to it, I also see otherwise.
As Daniel Ingram points out, "Keep the company of other friends who are good practitioners and teachers and talk with them regularly and honestly about your thoughts on the dharma, your own practice, teaching, your relationships with students, and the rest: external reference points help a lot to keep us real and down-to-earth. Dharma should be a team sport, and teaching even more so."
and
It is interesting that my first really inspiring teacher who was open about attainments and really down to earth about talking about real practice was a woman: Subhana Barzaghi. Her simple "you can do it and we can talk about it like anything else" style was part of my early inspiration for going in the direction I did with my book and this place. Of all the people I sat with since, she still remains one of the most inspiring of the bunch. She is also the only person I know who holds dual Vipassana and Zen lineages, and this an inspiration for me to read across traditions and a confirmation that they must be talking about the same thing.
Buddha also in many occasions adviced his students to have strong spiritual friendship and openly discuss and help each other on the spiritual path. We can share and gain insights from each other in this way.
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Sakyans. Now there is a Sakyan town named Sakkara. There Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."1
"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.
"And how does a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, develop & pursue the noble eightfold path? There is the case where a monk develops right view dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. He develops right resolve ... right speech ... right action ... right livelihood ... right effort ... right mindfulness ... right concentration dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. This is how a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, develops & pursues the noble eightfold path.
"And through this line of reasoning one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life: It is in dependence on me as an admirable friend that beings subject to birth have gained release from birth, that beings subject to aging have gained release from aging, that beings subject to death have gained release from death, that beings subject to sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair have gained release from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. It is through this line of reasoning that one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life."
you know something AEN,
i would like to confess something. I like it when others are open, but i am not so comfortable with being open myself... curiosity perhaps... keke
please dun hammer me hor...
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Many people think that practice is a very private, personal matter, and while there is some points to it, I also see otherwise.
As Daniel Ingram points out, "Keep the company of other friends who are good practitioners and teachers and talk with them regularly and honestly about your thoughts on the dharma, your own practice, teaching, your relationships with students, and the rest: external reference points help a lot to keep us real and down-to-earth. Dharma should be a team sport, and teaching even more so."
and
It is interesting that my first really inspiring teacher who was open about attainments and really down to earth about talking about real practice was a woman: Subhana Barzaghi. Her simple "you can do it and we can talk about it like anything else" style was part of my early inspiration for going in the direction I did with my book and this place. Of all the people I sat with since, she still remains one of the most inspiring of the bunch. She is also the only person I know who holds dual Vipassana and Zen lineages, and this an inspiration for me to read across traditions and a confirmation that they must be talking about the same thing.
Buddha also in many occasions adviced his students to have strong spiritual friendship and openly discuss and help each other on the spiritual path. We can share and gain insights from each other in this way.
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Sakyans. Now there is a Sakyan town named Sakkara. There Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."1
"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.
"And how does a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, develop & pursue the noble eightfold path? There is the case where a monk develops right view dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. He develops right resolve ... right speech ... right action ... right livelihood ... right effort ... right mindfulness ... right concentration dependent on seclusion, dependent on dispassion, dependent on cessation, resulting in relinquishment. This is how a monk who has admirable people as friends, companions, & colleagues, develops & pursues the noble eightfold path.
"And through this line of reasoning one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life: It is in dependence on me as an admirable friend that beings subject to birth have gained release from birth, that beings subject to aging have gained release from aging, that beings subject to death have gained release from death, that beings subject to sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair have gained release from sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair. It is through this line of reasoning that one may know how admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life."
aiyo AEN, one can discuss and share and so on... it's no problem. i have nothing against that... but attainments... attain this level, that level, frankly speaking... if a person needs to be motivated by this, quite short-term IMO... i think better they look at impermanence, suffering and so on to spur themselves to practice. the standard way.
i agree with need for sharing, dharma friends and so... so why else, i'm here... cos of you guys are also dharma friends... right?
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
aiyo AEN, one can discuss and share and so on... it's no problem. i have nothing against that... but attainments... attain this level, that level, frankly speaking... if a person needs to be motivated by this, quite short-term IMO... i think better they look at impermanence, suffering and so on to spur themselves to practice. the standard way.i agree with need for sharing, dharma friends and so... so why else, i'm here... cos of you guys are also dharma friends... right?
my personal view: whatever we're all learning or trying to achieve, at the end of the day, do we hope to also help others around us, with our increased knowledge, awareness or enlightenment? or is it purely a personal goal and hence personal victory at the end of the day? I truly hope everyone can agree honestly that it's the first case.
All the masters that i've known has said,
spiritual practice is to make oneself go beyond the self-centredness and build up the strength to help others.
becoming Buddha is always for the sake of benefitting others.
Rainbow body also for the sake of benefitting others.
My teachers, the most outstanding quality about them, is not their high realisations or miracles. It is their love. I have never felt more loved by anyone ever.. so unconditionally and it is unbelievable. If u ever felt such kind of love, u will never ever forget it. And i can't forget it either. This is my initiation to what bodhichitta means.
These teachers, they are always very human, and they do not have to do anything special or say anything special, but everyone around them is transformed. Even animals change. This is due to the power of their motivation or bodhichitta.
Buddha has said, if one had great compassion, it would encapsulate all of his teachings.
Originally posted by wisdomeye:All the masters that i've known has said,
spiritual practice is to make oneself go beyond the self-centredness and build up the strength to help others.
becoming Buddha is always for the sake of benefitting others.
Rainbow body also for the sake of benefitting others.
My teachers, the most outstanding quality about them, is not their high realisations or miracles. It is their love. I have never felt more loved by anyone ever.. so unconditionally and it is unbelievable. If u ever felt such kind of love, u will never ever forget it. And i can't forget it either. This is my initiation to what bodhichitta means.
These teachers, they are always very human, and they do not have to do anything special or say anything special, but everyone around them is transformed. Even animals change. This is due to the power of their motivation or bodhichitta.
Buddha has said, if one had great compassion, it would encapsulate all of his teachings.
wow, well said! though I don't know who your teachers are, but if you can feel such love from them, they must be truly worthy teachers. though the postings and articles in this forum seldom talk about love for people, it's really an extremely important aspect that needs to be learnt and felt, if spiritual growth is to occur. Although I'm not here to intentionally irritate any Buddhists, and I keep getting reminded that Buddhism is not about learning life/karmic lessons, and more about about losing attachments and achieving emptiness and awareness, wisdomeye's (a Buddhist) words above express much of what I've been trying to say.
How many of you truly feel that the day when you lose all attachments to this world, and no longer have 'normal human feelings' like love or feelings for people or situations around you, is the day you've finally achieved enlightenment? I know this question may not be very well phrased, but it's hard to express everything in written words.
I'm just giving my observation as an 'outsider' in this forum: when you have true compassion and love for others (people, animals, environment, etc), you don't need to say anything and others will just naturally feel it from you, and naturally want to learn from you and be like you, so that they can in turn love and help others. Though I can explain this phenomenon in terms of how positive energy works in the Universe, and its positive effects on people, but it's not appropriate for me to share it here. Anyhow, this is the case with wisdomeye's teachers' positive effect on their students. This is the true mastery of spirituality, regardless of what religion or faith (including free thinkers) someone has.
Hope more forumers could share your views on this.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:wow, well said! though I don't know who your teachers are, but if you can feel such love from them, they must be truly worthy teachers. though the postings and articles in this forum seldom talk about love for people, it's really an extremely important aspect that needs to be learnt and felt, if spiritual growth is to occur. Although I'm not here to intentionally irritate any Buddhists, and I keep getting reminded that Buddhism is not about learning life/karmic lessons, and more about about losing attachments and achieving emptiness and awareness, wisdomeye's (a Buddhist) words above express much of what I've been trying to say.
How many of you truly feel that the day when you lose all attachments to this world, and no longer have 'normal human feelings' like love or feelings for people or situations around you, is the day you've finally achieved enlightenment? I know this question may not be very well phrased, but it's hard to express everything in written words.
I'm just giving my observation as an 'outsider' in this forum: when you have true compassion and love for others (people, animals, environment, etc), you don't need to say anything and others will just naturally feel it from you, and naturally want to learn from you and be like you, so that they can in turn love and help others. Though I can explain this phenomenon in terms of how positive energy works in the Universe, and its positive effects on people, but it's not appropriate for me to share it here. Anyhow, this is the case with wisdomeye's teachers' positive effect on their students. This is the true mastery of spirituality, regardless of what religion or faith (including free thinkers) someone has.
Hope more forumers could share your views on this.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
Compassion naturally arises when "I" disappears as root cause suffering, the belief that "I" is solid and permanent disappears!
We or "I" is the cause of our own suffering and very often the cause of suffering of others. When "I" disappears, phenomena of selflessness emerges. Because I am at ease with myself and others, loving kindness and compassion naturally arises, only it does not have a name!
Put it this way, I am kind because I an naturally kind and not because I am trying to be kind. Or to reap karmic benefits.
The beautiful things about developing loving kindness and compassion is the ordinariness of it, not "I" doing compassion !
Just an ordinary state of occurrence!