Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Hmm... In my understanding, right view should be established even before one starts practicing the rest of the eightfold path. This is why Buddha put Right View at the top of the list. Right view has many aspects, for example, moral law of karma, the three characteristics, suffering. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path#Right_view
If a person is not instilled right view of morality from the beginning, how else would he have properly practiced Sila? If a person is not instilled right view of the three characteristics, for example, how else could he have practiced Right Mindfulness?
That is why right view should be instilled right from the start and serves as a foundation for all the other factors of the noble path.
As the Buddha himself have said:
Anguttara Nikaya 10:121
This, btw, also explains why just having the right view alone can assure one's enlightenment. Because having right view will set off a chain effect and lead to the arising of the eightfold path.
That said, it is true that right mindfulness and concentration must be practiced as a follow up for right view to be 'actualized' and realized. As the wiki entry states: Right view begins with concepts and propositional knowledge, but through the practice of right concentration, it gradually becomes transmuted into wisdom, which can eradicate the fetters of the mind.
Let's say... a sound of bell ringing being heard.
Does the sound originate from the ear? Does it originate from the bell? No! Actually... it is much more complex than that.
The sound of airplane being perceived actually has various supporting conditions... the stick, the bell, the vibration of the air, the ears, the hand hitting the stick, and so on. These supporting conditions all come together and in that instantaneous moment a completely new phenomenon/arising of sound-consciousness has arisen.
Does sound-consciousness have an origin? It cannot be said to have a source, cause, agent, or origin. It does not come from the ears, it does not come from the air, the stick, the bell, and so on.
Rather, it is with the combination of these various supporting conditions, a new and complete phenomenon arises. This is thus called Interdependent Origination.
Repeat post, Admin pls remove. Thanks
Thanks AEN for the clear explanation.
in my experience, inititally when i start practice right view on morality and the three characteristic is based on readings and is dualistic and conditional in nature. then as one start to practice and experience some insights, right view is re-established and may differ slightly than what was initially thought. for e.g. the view on suffering when i first ever read the Four Noble truths is different from the view im seeing now.
so that's why i say right view is established with practice, not meaning that it's not impt to learn about right view from the start before practicing the Eightfold Path, but that the view is refined along the way.
Should I practise pureland at the same time as cultivating right view? Is it ok to do two at once?
Originally posted by Beautiful951:Should I practise pureland at the same time as cultivating right view? Is it ok to do two at once?
Singleminded recitation of the Buddha's name encompasses right view, because you are not entertaining deviant views. So yes, you are practicing two at once.
The recitation of the buddha's name is very simple, juz recite, and recite and recite singlemindedly.
Originally posted by Beautiful951:Should I practise pureland at the same time as cultivating right view? Is it ok to do two at once?
If you can gain the insight of Right View that will be most blessed.
Right View is the nature of seeing the world 'correctly', it will not contradict anything.
"And what is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the cessation of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called right view."
— DN 22
Originally posted by Beautiful951:Should I practise pureland at the same time as cultivating right view? Is it ok to do two at once?
pureland Buddha recitation school practice some sort different from ch'an and mind school. yes we can understand the right view and 4NT.
ch'an and mind school use the nature of Six Roots/Organs to experience the nature of Six Objects. that mean when the eye see all form object it is the nature of seeing experiencing the nature of all form �性�色性. when the ear listen to sound, it is the nature of hearing listening to the nature of sound 耳性闻声性 etcs. if u can do this u are Enlightened 明心�性, �性�佛. Normal people only use dualistic Six Roots to experience the defiled Six Objects, hence the mind attached. Most are explain in Shurangama Sutra.
pureland Buddha recitation method is simpler and equally effective if not more effective. how it work is when the eye see the external form, before the mind start to discriminate and attached to the form, u quickly change it to Amituofo. when the eye see, it's Amituofo. when the ear listen to sound, it's Amituofo. when the nose smell, it's Amituofo. when the tongue taste, it's also Amituofo. All is Amituofo! this is the brillant method by Pureland. problem is whether u know how to recite or in other word whether u know how to convert. when thoughts start to arise, quickly convert to Amituofo. if u do not know how, the mind will still wonder off and think off something else when reciting. then it will not be useful.
hope it's useful to know the idea behind Buddha recitation method. :-)
learn from MCK.
/\
Nirvana? but since you are practising Mahayana path, will you delay your enlightenment and practise the Bodhisatvva path until you attain Buddhahood?
Are you confident that all phenomena in your experiential universe is arising and passing away every moment?
Yes, its confirmed based on personal experience.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?
It is unlikely for me to perceive as this as "right view" because all phenonmena arise due to intentions or according to design/laws of creation. If there is no "doer", then you will not be reading this right now and the universe will be lifeless.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is inconstant and hence, unsatisfactory?
Yes, everyone experience "unsatisfactory" all the time anyway.
Are you confident that all phenomena arise due to causes and conditions?
Yes, by intentions and by design.
Originally posted by geis:Thanks AEN for the clear explanation.
in my experience, inititally when i start practice right view on morality and the three characteristic is based on readings and is dualistic and conditional in nature. then as one start to practice and experience some insights, right view is re-established and may differ slightly than what was initially thought. for e.g. the view on suffering when i first ever read the Four Noble truths is different from the view im seeing now.
so that's why i say right view is established with practice, not meaning that it's not impt to learn about right view from the start before practicing the Eightfold Path, but that the view is refined along the way.
Thanks... what you said is very true.
Our views keep getting refined and clarified according to practice and experiential insights.
Originally posted by Beautiful951:Should I practise pureland at the same time as cultivating right view? Is it ok to do two at once?
Yes, pure land requires you to have right view as well.
Think about it... does pure land require an understanding of impermanence? Yes. If dharmas were permanent... why seek rebirth in pure land. Does pure land require an understanding of unsatisfactoriness? Yes, all samsaric existence and posessions are ultimately transient, illusory, unsatisfactory. Does pure land require an understanding of non-self? Yes, if we believe there were truly something 'me' or 'mine' it will be condusive to grasping and self-contraction rather than letting go. Is pure land practice conducive to dispassion and detachment? Yes, by leaving away the attachments to samsara is the only way we can be born in pure land.
Right view aids and is essential to pure land practice. All practices be it zen, pure land, theravada, and so on have right view as foundation.
Hi AEN,
Regarding q2
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?
I read the link u pasted here...
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Suttas/Anattalakkhana/anattalakkhana.html
Quite "steep" leh
I drew references from Buddha's Four Foundation of Mindfulness... not sure whether is it applicable or not. For example,
Material form- that one I know is impermanent, therefore it is not self. The Mindfulness of all Dharma explains that there is no "lasting identities"... everything is formed by many "different parts" to make up that particular "part". Lack of any "part" and this form or "part" will cease... and so there is no self
Feelings- understand that feeling is also one of the Foundation of Mindfulness, and its impermance... this one ok... and so there is no self
Perception- this one I understands... even social scientists says that perceptions stem from cultures and this world got so many different cultures... different yardstick. But because we are born in particular ethnic groups and therefore we tend to follow and think our ethnic group is "normal" and others is abnormal. Therefore perception is quite warped sometimes... When we are babies, there is no self... OK this one correct
Mental formation- this one similar to what we call "thoughts"? Thoughts are always changing too. So there is no self... OK correct...
Last one: Consciousness... this one deep leh... I thought we all got consciousness...? if there is no consciousness... how do we function? maybe the Mindfulness of Dharma has already explain this...
Originally posted by SoulDivine:Are you confident that all phenomena in your experiential universe is arising and passing away every moment?
Yes, its confirmed based on personal experience.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?It is unlikely for me to perceive as this as "right view" because all phenonmena arise due to intentions or according to design/laws of creation. If there is no "doer", then you will not be reading this right now and the universe will be lifeless.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is inconstant and hence, unsatisfactory?
Yes, everyone experience "unsatisfactory" all the time anyway.
Are you confident that all phenomena arise due to causes and conditions?Yes, by intentions and by design.
The confidence of each individual's experience of arising and passing of phenomena comes from the single pointedness awareness of now.
Originally posted by Rooney9:Nirvana? but since you are practising Mahayana path, will you delay your enlightenment and practise the Bodhisatvva path until you attain Buddhahood?
It is a common misconception that if you practice the bodhisattva path, you are delaying your own enlightenment.
In fact, all true bodhisattvas are enlightened. Bodhisattvas that have entered even the 1st bhumi level have realized emptiness. In terms of realization, 1st bhumi can roughly correspond to Sotapanna level, while 6th bhumi is roughly corresponded with Arhatship. You have to go through 10 bhumis to reach Buddhahood.
Originally posted by parn:
If you need seek some form of assurance regarding attaining your own Nirvana, then I can assure you that true Nirvana is actually very distant from you.And why would you specify Christians as an example for questioning your assurance to Nirvana?
If you have such subjective opinions about Christians, then certainly your assurance to Nirvana is not truly assured.
Buddha says "There is no opinions in this world, the world have no opinions of you and you do not have a real opinion of the world. Everything that has happened, will happen, and is happening is not part of the world. The world is neither in the past, present or future. The world is You, You formed part of the world. You will never leave the world and the world will never leave you."
Amitatofu, there is no you or the world that you speaked of.
'If you need seek some form of assurance regarding attaining your own Nirvana, then I can assure you that true Nirvana is actually very distant from you.'
- Actually, no, if you need assurance it just means you still have doubts. But assurance is a good way to get people to investigate these things themselves. Otherwise, people would not be bothered.
For me, since I have realized the way things truly are, I no longer have doubts. I do not need assurance, I simply posted this to encourage people to investigate things a little for themselves.
My comment about Christians is just a joke... don't take it too seriously.
Originally posted by 2009novice:Hi AEN,
Regarding q2
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?
I read the link u pasted here...
http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Suttas/Anattalakkhana/anattalakkhana.html
Quite "steep" leh
I drew references from Buddha's Four Foundation of Mindfulness... not sure whether is it applicable or not. For example,
Material form- that one I know is impermanent, therefore it is not self. The Mindfulness of all Dharma explains that there is no "lasting identities"... everything is formed by many "different parts" to make up that particular "part". Lack of any "part" and this form or "part" will cease... and so there is no self
Feelings- understand that feeling is also one of the Foundation of Mindfulness, and its impermance... this one ok... and so there is no self
Perception- this one I understands... even social scientists says that perceptions stem from cultures and this world got so many different cultures... different yardstick. But because we are born in particular ethnic groups and therefore we tend to follow and think our ethnic group is "normal" and others is abnormal. Therefore perception is quite warped sometimes... When we are babies, there is no self... OK this one correct
Mental formation- this one similar to what we call "thoughts"? Thoughts are always changing too. So there is no self... OK correct...
Last one: Consciousness... this one deep leh... I thought we all got consciousness...? if there is no consciousness... how do we function? maybe the Mindfulness of Dharma has already explain this...
Whatever you said about four foundations of mindfulness is alright... however mindfulness is not a conceptualization process. Mindfulness means bare naked observation of reality... it is also what gives rise to direct experiential insight provided there is right view. Here's an article on mindfulness I consider a 'must-read' for everyone practicing Buddhism: Chapter 13 ...(Mindfulness - Sati)
About consciousness: in Buddhism, we do not say there is no consciousness. There is consciousness, but consciousness is not a Self. Consciousness is not an ultimate observer of objects... this is the ordinary being's thinking and even those with transcendental glimpses of the I AM Presence.
So what is consciousness? In http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
The Buddha reprimanded a monk who thinks that consciousness 'is that which feels and experiences, that which reaps the results of good and evil actions done here and there' and that 'this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else'.
Why is this monk reprimanded for holding such a view of consciousness? It is because he thinks that Consciousness is a soul, a Self that experiences and observes things and that this is ultimately that unchanging entity that transmigrates through different lifetimes.
The Buddha furthermore states that
"Foolish man, to whom do you know me having taught the Dhamma like this. Haven’t I taught, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet you, foolish man, on account of your wrong view, you misrepresent me, as well as destroy yourself and accumulate much demerit, for which you will suffer for a long time."'
Note that the Buddha is saying two things here: 1) Consciousness is a manifestation that dependently originates. 2) By holding on to the wrong view, you create much demerits for yourself and prevent your own enlightenment.
So it goes two ways: having right view ensures your enlightenment, while holding on to the wrong view prevents awakening and further to propagate these views as truth or worse as Buddha's words (called slandering) destroys yourself and accumulate a lot of demerits. This is why having this discussion in this forum is very important, it is my wish that everyone can attain Nirvana ASAP.
Now back to the topic of consciousness... now we understand that Consciousness is not a self, but a manifestation that dependently originates. It is an Arising... it is not a Self or a Soul, or an Observer/Experiencer/Feeler.
What kind of arising is called consciousness? The Buddha further explains:
"Bhikkhus, consciousness is reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. If consciousness arises on account of eye and forms, it is reckoned as eye consciousness. If on account of ear and sounds it arises, it is reckoned as ear consciousness. If on account of nose and smells it arises, it is reckoned as nose consciousness. If on account of tongue and tastes it arises, it is reckoned as tongue consciousness. If on account of body and touch it arises, it is reckoned as body consciousness. If on account of mind and mind-objects it arises, it is reckoned as mind consciousness. Bhikkhus, just as a fire is reckoned based on whatever that fire burns - fire ablaze on sticks is a stick fire, fire ablaze on twigs is a twig fire, fire ablaze on grass is a grass fire, fire ablaze on cowdung is a cowdung fire, fire ablaze on grain thrash is a grain thrash fire, fire ablaze on rubbish is a rubbish fire - so too is consciousness reckoned by the condition dependent upon which it arises. In the same manner consciousness arisen on account is eye and forms is eye consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of ear and sounds is ear consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of nose and smells is nose consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of tongue and tastes is taste consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of body and touch is body consciousness. Consciousness arisen on account of mind and mind-objects is mind consciousness.
"Bhikkhus, do you see, This has arisen?" "Yes, venerable sir". "Do you see it arises supported by That?" "Yes, venerable sir." "Bhikkhus, Do you see if the support ceases, the arising too ceases?" "Yes, venerable sir."
So we can see from here, there is no one single type of consciousness. There is actually six different types of consciousness, which arises due to interdependence and supporting conditions.
The act of hearing music depends on many things: the ears, the air, the speakers, and so on... that act of cognizance is an arising with supporting conditions.
Consciousness is a pure cognizance manifestation. There is no 'self' involved... there is no 'self' hearing, seeing, there is pure seeing, pure hearing, everything happening without an experiencer. This is the nature of consciousness. There is no 'you' in here watching the 'tree out there'... there is just the pure seeing of tree without a seer and external object being seen - there is no distance, only distantless pure visual consciousness.
Lastly, I believe you hear from Heart Sutra that the five skandhas are empty and that forms, feelings, perception, volition and consciousness are all empty. What does 'empty' mean? Doesn't mean they don't exist, but that they interdependently originate, are impermanent, non-self, and thus are without an inherent, permanent essence.
Consciousness is empty because it does not have an inherent, independent, permanent nature: consciousness is an act of cognizance that dependently originates with supporting conditions.
Everything we experience is an act of cognizance that appears to be solid, real, 'out there' but is actually just a dependently originated 'magic show'.
Thus the Buddha says in Phena Sutta that consciousness is like a magic trick:
Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.
On a related note:
There are many people (even Buddhist masters and teachers) with some level of attainment or realization who continue to think of Consciousness as an ultimate Self/Absolute. They call it 'buddha-nature' but they have not realized Anatta yet... they have certain glimpses of the luminous essence of pure Awareness but they have not realized the empty nature. They will think that there is a permanent Absolute within which all impermanent manifestation of consciousness arise and subside. They do not see that what they have experienced (the I AM Presence/thoughtless beingness) is simply one manifestation of pure awareness relating to the mind-realm, that in actuality all manifestations (including seeing, hearing, etc) are equally a manifestation of pure cognizance arising due to supporting conditions. I have been through this stage before.
They will say things like Buddha-nature is the ultimate and permanent Self beyond all five skandhas including impermanent consciousness. This is similar to the Hindus' view of Atman-Brahman. By propagating this view as Buddha's, they are in fact holding a position that will be put under the same scrutiny as Buddha did to Bhikkhu Sati, in other words these people are themselves 'destroying themselves and creating much demerits' by not teaching the right view and teaching it as if it is the Buddha's. Even though the intention may be sincere.
I beg to differ from the eternalistic/Hindu view that Buddha-nature is the Pure Consciousnes that transcends the five skandhas by putting it this way: Five Skandhas IS the Buddha-Nature. (just as Zen Master Hui-neng and Dogen puts it: Impermanence IS Buddha-Nature)
On this, I would like to quote from Lama Surya Das and Buddha himself:
Lama Surya Das:
http://www.dzogchen.org/teachings/talks/dtalk-95may22.html
I think this five skandha scheme is a very interesting one, in the sense that it can begin to raise some very interesting questions and help us dig deeper, rather than just having a vague, amorphous kind of understanding. We are individual. We are each responsible for ourselves and our karma and our relations. Our individuality is comprised of these five aggregates or skandhas. We can work with that. It is actually an expression of the Buddha-nature.
Now, doesn't anybody want to say, "I didn't hear anything about Buddha-nature in the five skandhas. Where's the Buddha-nature? Who made that up?" That's the right question. What Buddha-nature? I never said anything about it. Who made that up? What enlightenment? What nirvana? Who made all that stuff up? Is it in us or elsewhere? How to get from "here" to "there"?
We're all looking for something to hang our hopes on, but when we really get down to the present moment, to our own experience, to clear seeing, we come to what Buddha said: "In hearing there is only hearing; no one hearing and nothing heard." There is just that moment, that hearing. You might think, "Oh, a beautiful bird." How do you know it's a bird? It might be a tape recorder. It might be bicycle brakes squeaking. In the first moment, there is just hearing, then we get busy, our minds and concepts get involved. The Buddha went through all the five senses. "In seeing there is just seeing; no one seeing and nothing seen." And so on, with tasting, touching, smelling, and thinking. Thoughts without a thinker. In thinking there is just thinking. There is just that momentary process. There is no thinker. The notion of an inner thinker is just a thought. We imagine that there is somebody thinking. It's like the Wizard of Oz. They thought there was this glorious wizard, but it was just a little man back there behind the screen, behind the veil. That's how it is with the ego. We think there's a great big monkey inside working the five windows, the five senses. Or maybe five monkeys, one for each sense; a whole chattering monkey house, which it sometimes feels like. But is there really a concrete individual or permanent soul inside at all? It seems more like that the lights are on, but no one is home!
Buddha (Shurangama Sutra):
"Ananda, you have not yet understood that all the defiling objects that appear, all the illusory, ephemeral phenomena, spring up in the very spot where they also come to an end. Their phenomena aspects are illusory and false, but their nature is in truth the bright substance of wonderful enlightenment. Thus it is throughout, up to the five skandhas and the six entrances, to the twelve places and the eighteen realms; the union and mixture of various causes and conditions account for their illusory and false existence, and the separation and dispersion of the causes and conditions result in their illusory and false extinction. Who would have thought that production and extinction, coming and going are fundamentally the eternal wonderful light of the Tathagata, the unmoving, all-pervading perfection, the wonderful nature of True Suchness! If within the true and eternal nature one seeks coming and going, confusion and enlightenment, or birth and death, one will never find them."
Originally posted by Weychin:Impermanence is a principle, not substance, an inviolable, inevitable truth, if you will.The confidence of each individual's experience of arising and passing of phenomena comes from the single pointedness awareness of now.
The "doer" is also a rising and passing of phenomena, as each perception is created, the former one dies. The transition for one perception to the next is seemingly seamless, that often , the "doer" is thought as permanent.As long as there is a perceived "doer", arising and falling will subsist.And as long as "doer" subsist, arising and falling of the doer also will be unceasing, seemingly endless, therefore unsatisfactory.The arising and falling of phenomena is self evident, can therefore be verified, but if should the arising and falling of phenomena be claimed to be by intent, and design, if then, the originator, not subject to change and therefore, permanent, have to self evident . Or is originator, subject to change, therefore, impermanent, hence just a phenomena, in rising and passing?
Is intent the doer or controller of things, or is it just a supporting condition for another manifestation? If intention is the controller of things, who is the controller of intent?
No origination or agent can be found, just a flow of interdependence.
Originally posted by SoulDivine:Are you confident that all phenomena in your experiential universe is arising and passing away every moment?
Yes, its confirmed based on personal experience.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?It is unlikely for me to perceive as this as "right view" because all phenonmena arise due to intentions or according to design/laws of creation. If there is no "doer", then you will not be reading this right now and the universe will be lifeless.
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is inconstant and hence, unsatisfactory?
Yes, everyone experience "unsatisfactory" all the time anyway.
Are you confident that all phenomena arise due to causes and conditions?Yes, by intentions and by design.
There are intentions, but intentions are not the 'doer'.
Intention is part of the 'being done'! Intention arises, which serves as a supporting condition for further arisings. There is no denying the importance of intentions in influencing and affecting our every moment of living. Intentions have an important role in life. But intention itself is not a doer: it is an arising with supporting conditions as well.
If intention is a doer, then who is the doer of intention? You'll need an infinite regress of intentions... which is not the case.
'No Self' does not mean no arisings... it just means all there is is arisings! Whatever you call 'your self' is really just these arisings... no self, no agent, doer, perceiver could be found could be found apart from this arising and passing phenomena.
Reading this is happening right now without a doer and perceiver - it is simply pure perception without a perceiver.
There is no 'you' in here reading the words 'over there'... you are the screen, the computer, the music playing, everything arising so to speak... though there is no 'you'.
The universe is lifeless because it is purely spontaneous emergence (but it is spontaneity with supporting conditions) without 'doers' and 'perceivers' - but on the other hand Universe IS Consciousness and Life itself.
Originally posted by SoulDivine:
Are you confident that all phenomena arising is without self, arising without an agent, experiencer, doer?It is unlikely for me to perceive as this as "right view" because all phenonmena arise due to intentions or according to design/laws of creation. If there is no "doer", then you will not be reading this right now and the universe will be lifeless.
Hi SoulDivine,
Right View as taught by the Buddha is true. It is also the point whereby the liberation dynamics gets really started. When right view (no-self insight, etc) is established, 'you' will naturally understand why it is the truth and that it is the starting point of liberation dynamics.
No, the Buddha's essential core teaching has not be distorted or misintepreted. It is deep... deeper than most people are willing to explore.
Hope that you don't jump to a conclusion just yet...
Don't wish to write too much but for you to find out for yourself....plus the right view to too direct and short for lengthy words to express.
simpo_ is correct to say "will naturally understand why it is the truth and that it is the starting point of liberation dynamics."
By intention and design, everyone will lose the sense of seperation and the sense of " I " eventually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUFLpTNMK1s
But for the time being, it is better to just assume that there is a " I
" so that you can learn whatever you need to learn/experience/do when
there is a seperate "self". Once you have realised "no-self", you
cannot reverse back to "self" anymore, it is a point of no return.
Originally posted by SoulDivine:simpo_ is correct to say "will naturally understand why it is the truth and that it is the starting point of liberation dynamics."
By intention and design, everyone will lose the sense of seperation and the sense of " I " eventually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUFLpTNMK1s
But for the time being, it is better to just assume that there is a " I " so that you can learn whatever you need to learn/experience/do when there is a seperate "self". Once you have realised "no-self", you cannot reverse back to "self" anymore, it is a point of no return.
Hi Souldivine,
Thanks for replying. I more or less agree.
I now busy and overseas... kind of hard to write somemore...
Regards
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Whatever you said about four foundations of mindfulness is alright... however mindfulness is not a conceptualization process. Mindfulness means bare naked observation of reality... it is also what gives rise to direct experiential insight provided there is right view. Here's an article on mindfulness I consider a 'must-read' for everyone practicing Buddhism: Chapter 13 ...(Mindfulness - Sati)
About consciousness: in Buddhism, we do not say there is no consciousness. There is consciousness, but consciousness is not a Self. Consciousness is not an ultimate observer of objects... this is the ordinary being's thinking and even those with transcendental glimpses of the I AM Presence.
So what is consciousness? In http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
The Buddha reprimanded a monk who thinks that consciousness 'is that which feels and experiences, that which reaps the results of good and evil actions done here and there' and that 'this consciousness transmigrates through existences, not anything else'.
Why is this monk reprimanded for holding such a view of consciousness? It is because he thinks that Consciousness is a soul, a Self that experiences and observes things and that this is ultimately that unchanging entity that transmigrates through different lifetimes.
The Buddha furthermore states that
Note that the Buddha is saying two things here: 1) Consciousness is a manifestation that dependently originates. 2) By holding on to the wrong view, you create much demerits for yourself and prevent your own enlightenment.
So it goes two ways: having right view ensures your enlightenment, while holding on to the wrong view prevents awakening and further to propagate these views as truth or worse as Buddha's words (called slandering) destroys yourself and accumulate a lot of demerits. This is why having this discussion in this forum is very important, it is my wish that everyone can attain Nirvana ASAP.
Now back to the topic of consciousness... now we understand that Consciousness is not a self, but a manifestation that dependently originates. It is an Arising... it is not a Self or a Soul, or an Observer/Experiencer/Feeler.
What kind of arising is called consciousness? The Buddha further explains:
So we can see from here, there is no one single type of consciousness. There is actually six different types of consciousness, which arises due to interdependence and supporting conditions.
The act of hearing music depends on many things: the ears, the air, the speakers, and so on... that act of cognizance is an arising with supporting conditions.
Consciousness is a pure cognizance manifestation. There is no 'self' involved... there is no 'self' hearing, seeing, there is pure seeing, pure hearing, everything happening without an experiencer. This is the nature of consciousness. There is no 'you' in here watching the 'tree out there'... there is just the pure seeing of tree without a seer and external object being seen - there is no distance, only distantless pure visual consciousness.
Lastly, I believe you hear from Heart Sutra that the five skandhas are empty and that forms, feelings, perception, volition and consciousness are all empty. What does 'empty' mean? Doesn't mean they don't exist, but that they interdependently originate, are impermanent, non-self, and thus are without an inherent, permanent essence.
Consciousness is empty because it does not have an inherent, independent, permanent nature: consciousness is an act of cognizance that dependently originates with supporting conditions.
Everything we experience is an act of cognizance that appears to be solid, real, 'out there' but is actually just a dependently originated 'magic show'.
Thus the Buddha says in Phena Sutta that consciousness is like a magic trick:
Form is like a glob of foam; feeling, a bubble; perception, a mirage; fabrications, a banana tree; consciousness, a magic trick — this has been taught by the Kinsman of the Sun. However you observe them, appropriately examine them, they're empty, void to whoever sees them appropriately.
thx AEN... for this link http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
I think there's the Twelve-linked Chain of Dependent Origination inside this article.
Have understood that consciousness is just an arising... but still got 1 last troublesome doubt...
Just to check, due to ignorance, our actions are affected. Be it good or bad, the karma is all "stored" in consciousness and enters the mother's womb right?
I feel funny that when I ask this question is like æ¬ æ‰“ lol
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
'If you need seek some form of assurance regarding attaining your own Nirvana, then I can assure you that true Nirvana is actually very distant from you.'
- Actually, no, if you need assurance it just means you still have doubts. But assurance is a good way to get people to investigate these things themselves. Otherwise, people would not be bothered.
For me, since I have realized the way things truly are, I no longer have doubts. I do not need assurance, I simply posted this to encourage people to investigate things a little for themselves.
My comment about Christians is just a joke... don't take it too seriously.
Thank you for clearing things up.
I'm sorry for doubting you.
Originally posted by 2009novice:thx AEN... for this link http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
I think there's the Twelve-linked Chain of Dependent Origination inside this article.
Have understood that consciousness is just an arising... but still got 1 last troublesome doubt...
Just to check, due to ignorance, our actions are affected. Be it good or bad, the karma is all "stored" in consciousness and enters the mother's womb right?
I feel funny that when I ask this question is like æ¬ æ‰“ lol
How one is reborn and enters into the mother's womb is an interesting topic. What I understand is as long as we do not have these senses attachment as stated in the Heart Sutra (æ— çœ¼ no eyes，耳 no ears，鼻 no nose，舌 no tongue，身 no body，æ„� no feelings), with just the "stored" consciousness (阿赖耶识) alone is unable to be reborn as there is no attachment in "stored" consciousness.
"Stored" consciousness (第八阿赖耶识) has good and bad karma, so it is the cause. Effects will only happen if there is a right condition to make things happen.
For example, just like you meet your enemy of your past life. Your "stored" consciousness will "throw out the seed", telling you to hate or do things to harm this enemy of your past life but if you are a Buddhist and have the right practice, you will change the situation.
Anybody, correct me if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:How one is reborn and enters into the mother's womb is an interesting topic. What I understand is as long as we do not have these senses attachment as stated in the Heart Sutra (æ— çœ¼ no eyes，耳 no ears，鼻 no nose，舌 no tongue，身 no body，æ„� no feelings), with just the "stored" consciousness (阿赖耶识) alone is unable to be reborn as there is no attachment in "stored" consciousness.
Nice... getting more n more interesting...
I can see which point u coming from... (Heart Sutra) somethingsomething æ— çœ¼è€³é¼»èˆŒèº«æ„�ï¼Œæ— è‰²èº«é¦™å‘³è§¦æ³•ï¼Œæ— çœ¼ç•Œä¹ƒè‡³æ— æ„�识界somethingsomething
the æ— æ„�识界 u mean is this part right?
But earlier the Heart Sutra got this part, stated that GuanShiYin Pusa 照�(english I don't how to translate) 五蕴 (the 5 skandha: perception, feelings, mental formations, form, consciousness) 皆空，度一切苦厄
So I also not sure if Right View here can refer to eradicate ignorance (or the skandha too) and obtain final goal: Nirvana...! Lol...
"Stored" consciousness (第八阿赖耶识) has good and bad karma, so it is the cause. Effects will only happen if there is a right condition to make things happen.
Sorry this 第八阿赖耶识 i never read before...
For example, just like you meet your enemy of your past life. Your "stored" consciousness will "throw out the seed", telling you to hate or do things to harm this enemy of your past life but if you are a Buddhist and have the right practice, you will change the situation.
Anybody, correct me if I'm wrong.
Haha... same like u... I also looking for other views
Hi Dawn, please open and read.