Your Nirvana is assured if you have right view
-
What happens after Nirvana? Will we be "recycled" again and born into the upper realms? The Buddha said there were no sutras named "How to attain Nirvana" and "How to attain Enlightenment". Anybody care to explain?
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
What happens after Nirvana? Will we be "recycled" again and born into the upper realms? The Buddha said there were no sutras named "How to attain Nirvana" and "How to attain Enlightenment". Anybody care to explain?
Hi Demon Bane,
There are two kinds of Nirvana: Nirvana with remainder, Nirvana without remainder.
An Arhant has achieved Nirvana with remainder while he is alive: he has experienced the cessation of suffering, attachments, and delusion. Why is it called 'with remainder'? Since he is still alive, his sense aggregates are still functioning and perceiving.
Nirvana without remainder refers to an Arhant who has passed away - for him there is no further conditions perpetuating the chain of birth and death, he is freed from the cycle of rebirth, and enters into cessation without remainder. For an Arhant, there is no more further births: no more births even in the higher realms. Since even the sense aggregates have ceased to function and there is no more further arising/birth, it is said to be 'Cessation without remainder'. However, anyone before attaining Arhantship will still be 'recycled in the 6 realms'. That said, if you have right view, or you attain Sotapanna (1st out of 4 stages to Arhantship), you are already ensured no more births in lower realms and a straight path to Nirvana.
As for your statement that there were no sutras named "How to attain Nirvana" and "How to attain Enlightenment" - my reply would be that it would not be necessary to name it as such, because ALL sutras are about how to attain enlightenment. This is the purpose of Buddhism, after all. The purpose and intention of Buddha as stated by himself is clear: he states that the sole teaching he taught is the reality (and cause) of suffering and the end (and path/way towards the end) of suffering.
What does this mean? This means all his teachings are centered on Nirvana and enlightenment - his intention and purpose is not simply for us to cultivate mundane qualities or become a better person, etc, which are commonplace among other teachings. Even teachings on morality by the Buddha is simply 'part of the package' of the path that leads to enlightenment - he did not teach morality just so that we become a better person, but that we can have the conditions to reach enlightenment (but morality is by no means the only factor - other factors include samadhi and wisdom/insight).
Sorry for the late reply - was in Tekong doing high keys last weekend, couldn't bookout.
-
Originally posted by parn:
Thank you for clearing things up.I'm sorry for doubting you.
It's ok to doubt anything else... but the truth (the 'right view') once realized cannot be doubted... investigate, see the truth for yourself, that is what matters. This is not about blind faith or faith in what someone said... but about ariving at an inner unshakeable conviction about the way things truly are.
-
Originally posted by 2009novice:
thx AEN... for this link http://www.leighb.com/mn38.htm
I think there's the Twelve-linked Chain of Dependent Origination inside this article.
Have understood that consciousness is just an arising... but still got 1 last troublesome doubt...
Just to check, due to ignorance, our actions are affected. Be it good or bad, the karma is all "stored" in consciousness and enters the mother's womb right?
I feel funny that when I ask this question is like æ¬ æ‰“ lol
Haha... there is nothing æ¬ æ‰“ about your question.
8th Consciousness is also an insubstantial and momentary stream of consciousness... 8th consciousness is not a soul that reincarnates, don't be mistaken (though it is often mistaken to be a soul).
As Thusness said before, we must get rid of the entire idea of there being a 'place' where seeds are being 'stored'. 'Storage' is simply spoken out of convention.
There are always imprints and tendencies, nothing lost. It has always been like that. 'Stored' actually means an on going process to mean that the tendencies are there. But not to see it as a place keeping track of something.
So 8th consciousness is an insubstantial and momentary process of tendencies and imprints and action interacting - there is no entity, place, or 'soul' involved.
Please read carefully:
Glossary (from http://www.kheper.net/topics/Buddhism/Yogacara_glossary.html):
*Alaya-vijnana, or "store consciousness" -- one of the central technical terms of Yogacara (Vijnanavada, Vijnaptimatra) philosophy of Mahayana Buddhism. Early Buddhists taught about existence of six-fold consciousness, that is the conciousness of five types of perception (visual, audial, etc.) and of "mind" (manovijnana). The Yogacarins analysing the source of consciousness added two more kinds of consciousness. They are: klistamanovijnana, or manas, that is the ego-centre of an empirical personality, and alaya-vijnana which is the source of other kinds of consciousness. Alaya-vijnana is above subject-object opposition but it is not a kind of absolute mind: alaya-vijnana is momentary and non-substantial. Every sentient being with the corresponding to this being "objective" world can be reduced to its "own" alaya-vijnana. Therefore, classical Yogacara states the existence of many alayas.The Alaya-vijnana is a receptacle and container of the so-called "seeds" (bija), or elementary units of past experiences. These bijas project themselves as an illusionary world of empirical subjects and corresponding objects. All other seven types of consciousness are but transformations (parinama) of alaya-vijnana. In the course of its yogic practice a Yogacarin must empty alaya-vijnana of its contents. Thus the Yogacarin puts an end to the tendency of external projections of alaya-vijnana changing it into non-dual (advaya) wisdom (jnana) of Enlightened mind.
-
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
How one is reborn and enters into the mother's womb is an interesting topic. What I understand is as long as we do not have these senses attachment as stated in the Heart Sutra (æ— çœ¼ no eyes，耳 no ears，鼻 no nose，舌 no tongue，身 no body，æ„� no feelings), with just the "stored" consciousness (阿赖耶识) alone is unable to be reborn as there is no attachment in "stored" consciousness.
"Stored" consciousness (第八阿赖耶识) has good and bad karma, so it is the cause. Effects will only happen if there is a right condition to make things happen.
For example, just like you meet your enemy of your past life. Your "stored" consciousness will "throw out the seed", telling you to hate or do things to harm this enemy of your past life but if you are a Buddhist and have the right practice, you will change the situation.
Anybody, correct me if I'm wrong.
What you said is right - the seed must meet the condition to be manifested.
Except I would want to correct the part on Heart Sutra:
Heart Sutra is talking about Emptiness as the nature of all phenomena.
It is not talking about emptying attachments to phenomena... it is saying that all phenomena, though appearing, is empty of an independent or permanent existence since they arise interdependent with conditions. Their interdependent origination means they are empty of substantial/inherent existence.
Emptiness is the nature of reality... it is not a state or experience (including a state of 'no attachments'). Emptiness requires 'realization'.
Everything is by nature empty... as Thusness explained before in On Anatta (No-Self), Emptiness, Maha and Ordinariness, and Spontaneous Perfection:
If we observe thought and ask where does thought arise, how does it arise, what is ‘thought’ like. 'Thought' will reveal its nature is empty -- vividly present yet completely un-locatable. It is very important not to infer, think or conceptualise but feel with our entire being this ‘ungraspability’ and 'unlocatability'. It seems to reside 'somewhere' but there is no way to locate it. It is just an impression of somewhere "there" but never "there". Similarly “here-ness” and “now-ness” are merely impressions formed by sensations, aggregates of causes and conditions, nothing inherently ‘there’; equally empty like ‘selfness’.
This ungraspable and unlocatable empty nature is not only peculiar to ‘thought’. All experiences or sensations are like that -- vividly present yet insubstantial, un-graspable, spontaneous, un-locatable.
If we were to observe a red flower that is so vivid, clear and right in front us, the “redness” only appears to “belong” to the flower, it is in actuality not so. Vision of red does not arise in all animal species (dogs cannot perceive colours) nor is the “redness” an inherent attribute of the mind. If given a “quantum eyesight” to look into the atomic structure, there is similarly no attribute “redness” anywhere found, only almost complete space/void with no perceivable shapes and forms. Whatever appearances are dependently arisen, and hence is empty of any inherent existence or fixed attributes, shapes, form, or “redness” -- merely luminous yet empty, mere appearances without inherent/objective existence.
Likewise when standing in front of a burning fire pit, the entire phenomena of ‘fire’, the burning heat, the whole sensation of ‘hotness’ that are so vividly present and seem so real but when examined they are also not inherently “there” -- merely dependently manifest whenever conditions are there. It is amazing how dualistic and inherent views have caged seamless experience in a who-where-when construct.
All experiences are empty. They are like sky flowers, like painting on the surface of a pond. There is no way to point to a moment of experience and say this is ‘in’ and that is ‘out’. All ‘in’ are as ‘out’; to awareness seamless experience is all there is. It is not the mirror or pond that is important but that process of illusion-like phenomenon of the paint shimmering on the surface of the pond; like an illusion but not an illusion, like a dream but not a dream. This is the ground of all experiences.
Yet this ‘ungraspability and unlocatabilty’ nature is not all there is; there is also this Maha, this great without boundaries feeling of 'interconnectedness'. When someone hits a bell, the person, the stick, the bell, the vibration of the air, the ears and then the magically appearance of sound -- ’Tongsss…re-sounding…’ is all a seamless one happening, one experience. When breathing, it is just this one whole entire breath; it is all causes and conditions coming together to give rise to this entire sensation of breath as if the whole of universe is doing this breathing. The significance of this Maha experience is not in words; in my opinion, without this experience, there is no true experience of 'interconnectedness' and non-dual presence is incomplete.
The experience of our empty nature is a very different from that of non-dual oneness. ‘Distance’ for example is overcome in non-dual oneness by seeing through the illusory aspect of subject/object division and resulted in a one non-dual presence. It is seeing all as just ‘This’ but experiencing Emptiness breaks the boundary through its empty ungraspable and unlocatable nature.
There is no need for a ‘where-place' or a ‘when-time' or a ‘who-I' when we penetrate deeply into this nature. When hearing sound, sound is neither ‘in here’ nor ‘out there’, it is where it is and gone! All centers and reference points dissolve with the wisdom that manifestation dependently originates and hence empty. The experience creates an "always right wherever and whenever is" sensation. A sensation of home everywhere though nowhere can be called home. Experiencing the emptiness nature of presence, a sincere practitioner becomes clear that indeed the non-dual presence is leaving a subtle mark; seeing its nature as empty, the last mark that solidifies experiences dissolves. It feels cool because presence is made more present and effortless. We then move from "vivid non-dual presence" into "though vividly and non-dually present, it is nothing real, empty!". -
Originally posted by SoulDivine:
simpo_ is correct to say "will naturally understand why it is the truth and that it is the starting point of liberation dynamics."
By intention and design, everyone will lose the sense of seperation and the sense of " I " eventually. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUFLpTNMK1s
But for the time being, it is better to just assume that there is a " I " so that you can learn whatever you need to learn/experience/do when there is a seperate "self". Once you have realised "no-self", you cannot reverse back to "self" anymore, it is a point of no return.Quite right... but actually, even when you think you are a separate self, there is actually already no self... it's not that you haven't 'reach' no-self... it's that you didn't realise that always already, there is no self.
There is always ever just pure seeing, experiencing, action, happenings... no agent or self or experiencer or controller of these things can be found.
No-self is a dharma seal... the nature of reality... it is not a state of experience.
“Anything that is created must sooner or later die. Enlightenment is permanent because we have
not produced it; we have merely discovered it.”
- Chogyam TrungpaAnd as Thusness mentioned before:
...First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation or as its commonly expressed as ‘the observer is the observed’; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain.
To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically... -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Hi Demon Bane,
There are two kinds of Nirvana: Nirvana with remainder, Nirvana without remainder.
An Arhant has achieved Nirvana with remainder while he is alive: he has experienced the cessation of suffering, attachments, and delusion. Why is it called 'with remainder'? Since he is still alive, his sense aggregates are still functioning and perceiving.
Nirvana without remainder refers to an Arhant who has passed away - for him there is no further conditions perpetuating the chain of birth and death, he is freed from the cycle of rebirth, and enters into cessation without remainder. For an Arhant, there is no more further births: no more births even in the higher realms. Since even the sense aggregates have ceased to function and there is no more further arising/birth, it is said to be 'Cessation without remainder'. However, anyone before attaining Arhantship will still be 'recycled in the 6 realms'. That said, if you have right view, or you attain Sotapanna (1st out of 4 stages to Arhantship), you are already ensured no more births in lower realms and a straight path to Nirvana.
As for your statement that there were no sutras named "How to attain Nirvana" and "How to attain Enlightenment" - my reply would be that it would not be necessary to name it as such, because ALL sutras are about how to attain enlightenment. This is the purpose of Buddhism, after all. The purpose and intention of Buddha as stated by himself is clear: he states that the sole teaching he taught is the reality (and cause) of suffering and the end (and path/way towards the end) of suffering.
What does this mean? This means all his teachings are centered on Nirvana and enlightenment - his intention and purpose is not simply for us to cultivate mundane qualities or become a better person, etc, which are commonplace among other teachings. Even teachings on morality by the Buddha is simply 'part of the package' of the path that leads to enlightenment - he did not teach morality just so that we become a better person, but that we can have the conditions to reach enlightenment (but morality is by no means the only factor - other factors include samadhi and wisdom/insight).
Sorry for the late reply - was in Tekong doing high keys last weekend, couldn't bookout.
Thanks for the insight.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Quite right... but actually, even when you think you are a separate self, there is actually already no self... it's not that you haven't 'reach' no-self... it's that you didn't realise that always already, there is no self.
Yep. This is true.
What we think of as 'self' is merely false assumption of knowingness taken as an individual's experience.
-
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Buddhist.Dictionary/dic3_a.htm
Anatt�: No-self, egolessness, soullessness, impersonality, absence of identity, is the last of the 3 universal characteristics of existence ti-lakkhana. This anatt� doctrine, which only is taught by a Buddha, teaches that neither within the bodily, material and mental phenomena of existence, nor outside of them, can be found anything at all, that in the ultimate sense could be regarded as a self-existing, real & same, ego-entity, identity, soul, self or independently existing substance. This is the central core doctrine of Buddhism, crucial for understanding the message & method of Buddhism. It is the only really specific Buddhist doctrine, with which the entire structure of the Buddhist teaching stands or falls. All the remaining Buddhist doctrines may, more or less, be found in other philosophic systems and religions, but the anatt� doctrine has been clearly and unreservedly taught only by the Buddha, wherefore the Buddha is known as the anatt�-v�di or 'Teacher of impersonality'. Whosoever has not penetrated this universal impersonality of all existence, and does not comprehend that in reality there exists only this continually self-consuming & self-referring process of arising and passing away of bodily, material and mental phenomena, and that there is no separate ego-entity or stable and same core neither within nor outside this process, he will not be able to understand Buddhism, i.e. the teaching of the 4 Noble Truths sacca, in the right light. He will think that it is his ego, his personality, that experiences suffering, his personality that performs good and evil actions and will be reborn according to these actions, his personality that will enter into Nibb�na, his personality that walks on the 8-fold path. This is the fatal 'personalist-view' sakk�ya-ditthi and self-deception m�na 'I Am' that keep beings wandering in Sams�ra. Thus it is said in Vis.M XVI:
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
Actions are, but no actor is ever found;
Nibb�na is, but no being exists that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler is seen.Whosoever does not understand the origin of conditionally arisen phenomena, and does not comprehend that all the actions are conditioned by ignorance, greed and hate, he thinks that it is an ego or self that understands or does not understand, that acts or causes to act, and that comes into existence at rebirth. He believes there exists an identity 'I' that has the sense-contact, that feels, desires, becomes attached, continues and at rebirth again enters a new existence as the same being... Vis.M XVII, 117.
While in the case of the first two characteristics it is stated that all constructions sabbe sankh�r� are impermanent and subject to suffering, the corresponding text for the third characteristic states that all states, all phenomena are no-self sabbe dhamm� anatt� M. 35, Dhp. 279. This is for emphasizing that the common false view of an abiding, same, constant, identical self or substance is neither applicable to any 'construction', whether internal or external, whether physical or mental nor to any conditioned phenomenon, nor to Nibb�na, the only Unconditioned Element asankhat�-dh�tu.
The Anatt�-lakkhana Sutta, the 'Discourse on the Characteristic of No-self', was the second discourse after Enlightenment, preached by the Buddha to his first five disciples, who after hearing it attained to perfect Nobility Arahatta.
The contemplation of no-self anattÄ�nupassanÄ� leads to the emptiness liberation suññatÄ�-vimokkha see. vimokkha. Herein the ability of understanding paññindriya is outstanding, and one who attains in that way the path of Stream-entry is called a Dhamma-devotee dhammÄ�nusÄ�ri see: ariya-puggala, at the next two stages of sainthood he becomes a vision-attainer ditthippatta; and at the highest stage, i.e. Nobility, he is called 'liberated by understanding' paññÄ�-vimutta.
For further details, see paramattha-sacca, paticca-samupp�da, khandha, ti-lakkhana, n�ma-rūpa, patisandhi
Literature: Anatt�-lakkhana Sutta, Vinaya I, 13-14; see: XXII, 59; tr. in Three Cardinal Discourses of the Buddha WHEEL 17. - Another important text on Anatt� is the Discourse on the Snake Simile Alagaddūpama Sutta, M. 22; tr. in WHEEL 48/49. Other texts in path. - Further: Anatt� and Nibb�na, by Nyanaponika Thera WHEEL 11; The Truth of Anatt�, by Dr. G. P. Malalasekera WHEEL 94; The Three Basic Facts of Existence III: Egolessness WHEEL 202/204
-
Very good, thanks for the insight.
-
If anybody here in this forum attain Nirvana or enlightenment, will any of u come back again to teach ? Or u would enjoy eternity in perfect bliss?
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If anybody here in this forum attain Nirvana or enlightenment, will any of u come back again to teach ? Or u would enjoy eternity in perfect bliss?
If I am able to attain Nirvana or enlightenment, I will enjoy eternity in perfect bliss. I always ask myself this question, why must I come back to spread the words of Buddhism, why can't I do it in this life instead. I won't say I'm teaching in this life because I'm still learning and not up to standard but I will try my best to spread Buddhism to others.
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If anybody here in this forum attain Nirvana or enlightenment, will any of u come back again to teach ? Or u would enjoy eternity in perfect bliss?
think both. there's no one of the other. A fully Enlightened beings will attained the Trikaya, where the manifested bodies will benefit/teach all sentient beings; the reward body is for one's own benefit; and the truth body is for benefit of both.however Buddhas will teach without any effort. they will be like mirror reflecting any objects that come in front of the mirror. when u ask them, they reflect the answer without any effort. when u don't ask them, they are as still and peaceful as a mirror.
/\
-
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If anybody here in this forum attain Nirvana or enlightenment, will any of u come back again to teach ? Or u would enjoy eternity in perfect bliss?
If I do attain Nirvana (eradication of the ten defilements and all sufferings) in future, I will want to continue the Bodhisattva path towards Buddhahood. -
Originally posted by Demon Bane:
If anybody here in this forum attain Nirvana or enlightenment, will any of u come back again to teach ? Or u would enjoy eternity in perfect bliss?
heehee... actually I don't know how to feel or think Nirvana is attained.. but must be something very peacefulbut one thing is certain, learning buddhism is a very joyful thing for me. U can say there is a blissful feeling in learning buddhism :D
-
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.043.than.html
Right view
"Friend, how many conditions are there for the arising of right view?"
"Friend, there are two conditions for the arising of right view: the voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view."
"And assisted by how many factors does right view have awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward?"
"Assisted by five factors, right view has awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward. There is the case where right view is assisted by virtue, assisted by learning, assisted by discussion, assisted by tranquility, assisted by insight. Assisted by these five factors, right view has awareness-release as its fruit & reward, and discernment-release as its fruit & reward."
-
another great sutta on right view
MN 117PTS: M iii 71Maha-cattarisaka Sutta: The Great Fortytranslated from the Pali byThanissaro BhikkhuI have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. There he addressed the monks: "Monks!"
"Yes, lord," the monks replied.
The Blessed One said, "Monks, I will teach you noble right concentration with its supports and requisite conditions. Listen, and pay close attention. I will speak."
"Yes, lord," the monks replied.
The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions.
[1] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no priests or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.
"And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents [asava], siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right view, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"And what is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are priests & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
"And what is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The discernment, the faculty of discernment, the strength of discernment, analysis of qualities as a factor for Awakening, the path factor of right view of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is free from effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right view that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"One tries to abandon wrong view & to enter into right view: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong view & to enter & remain in right view: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right view.
[2] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong resolve as wrong resolve, and right resolve as right resolve. And what is wrong resolve? Being resolved on sensuality, on ill will, on harmfulness. This is wrong resolve.
"And what is right resolve? Right resolve, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right resolve with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right resolve, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"And what is the right resolve that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill will, on harmlessness. This is the right resolve that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
And what is the right resolve that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The thinking, directed thinking, resolve, (mental) fixity, transfixion, focused awareness, & verbal fabrications of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right resolve that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"One tries to abandon wrong resolve & to enter into right resolve: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong resolve & to enter & remain in right resolve: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right resolve.
[3] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong speech as wrong speech, and right speech as right speech. And what is wrong speech? Lying, divisive tale-bearing, abusive speech, & idle chatter. This is wrong speech.
"And what is right speech? Right speech, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right speech with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right speech, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"And what is the right speech that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? Abstaining from lying, from divisive tale-bearing, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter. This is the right speech that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
"And what is the right speech that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The abstaining, desisting, abstinence, avoidance of the four forms of verbal misconduct of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right speech that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"One tries to abandon wrong speech & to enter into right speech: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong speech & to enter & remain in right speech: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right speech.
[4] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong action as wrong action, and right action as right action. And what is wrong action? Killing, taking what is not given, illicit sex. This is wrong action.
"And what is right action? Right action, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right action with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right action, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"And what is the right action that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? Abstaining from killing, from taking what is not given, & from illicit sex. This is the right action that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
"And what is the right action that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The abstaining, desisting, abstinence, avoidance of the three forms of bodily misconduct of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right action that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"One tries to abandon wrong action & to enter into right action: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong action & to enter & remain in right action: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right action.
[5] "Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong livelihood as wrong livelihood, and right livelihood as right livelihood. And what is wrong livelihood? Scheming, persuading, hinting, belittling, & pursuing gain with gain. This is wrong livelihood.
"And what is right livelihood? Right livelihood, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right livelihood with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in the acquisitions [of becoming]; and there is noble right livelihood, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"And what is the right livelihood that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones abandons wrong livelihood and maintains his life with right livelihood. This is the right livelihood that has effluents, sides with merit, & results in acquisitions.
"And what is the right livelihood that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path? The abstaining, desisting, abstinence, avoidance of wrong livelihood of one developing the noble path whose mind is noble, whose mind is without effluents, who is fully possessed of the noble path. This is the right livelihood that is without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.
"One tries to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter into right livelihood: This is one's right effort. One is mindful to abandon wrong livelihood & to enter & remain in right livelihood: This is one's right mindfulness. Thus these three qualities — right view, right effort, & right mindfulness — run & circle around right livelihood.
"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, right resolve comes into being. In one of right resolve, right speech comes into being. In one of right speech, right action... In one of right action, right livelihood... In one of right livelihood, right effort... In one of right effort, right mindfulness... In one of right mindfulness, right concentration... In one of right concentration, right knowledge... In one of right knowledge, right release comes into being. Thus the learner is endowed with eight factors, and the arahant with ten.
"Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? In one of right view, wrong view is abolished. The many evil, unskillful qualities that come into play with wrong view as their condition are also abolished, while the many skillful qualities that have right view as their condition go to the culmination of their development. In one of right resolve, wrong resolve is abolished... In one of right speech, wrong speech is abolished... In one of right action, wrong action is abolished... In one of right livelihood, wrong livelihood is abolished... In one of right effort, wrong effort is abolished... In one of right mindfulness, wrong mindfulness is abolished... In one of right concentration, wrong concentration is abolished... In one of right knowledge, wrong knowledge is abolished... In one of right release, wrong release is abolished. The many evil, unskillful qualities that come into play with wrong release as their condition are also abolished, while the many skillful qualities that have right release as their condition go to the culmination of their development.
"Thus, monks, there are twenty factors siding with skillfulness, and twenty with unskillfulness.
"This Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty has been set rolling and cannot be stopped by any contemplative or priest or deva or Mara and Brahma or anyone at all in the world.
"If any priest or contemplative might think that this Great Forty Dhamma discourse should be censured & rejected, there are ten legitimate implications of his statement that would form grounds for censuring him here & now. If he censures right view, then he would honor any priests and contemplatives who are of wrong view; he would praise them. If he censures right resolve... right speech... right action... right livelihood... right effort... right mindfulness... right concentration... right knowledge... If he censures right release, then he would honor any priests and contemplatives who are of wrong release; he would praise them. If any priest or contemplative might think that this Great Forty Dhamma discourse should be censured & rejected, there are these ten legitimate implications of his statement that would form grounds for censuring him here & now.
"Even Vassa & Bhañña — those teachers from Okkala who were proponents of no-causality, no-action, & no-existence — would not think that this Dhamma discourse on the Great Forty should be censured & rejected. Why is that? For fear of criticism, opposition, & reproach."
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words.
-
About compassion and no-self? Is it possible to have compassion together with the understanding of no-self?
-
When one is standing on the goal, the path no longer IS : that is nirvana, spirit, godliness, exsitential grace
-
Originally posted by Beautiful951:
About compassion and no-self? Is it possible to have compassion together with the understanding of no-self?
Closest I can come close to without bullshitting is acting out of selflessness.
-
Originally posted by Beautiful951:
About compassion and no-self? Is it possible to have compassion together with the understanding of no-self?
"no-self" to me is not-self not literally No self.it's part of wisdom. compassion need wisdom like a bicycle. the front wheel is the wisdom that do the steering. the back wheel is the compassion that is the powering force.
Wisdom without compassion is useless. Compassion without wisdom is unskilful and pointless.
/\
-
just half a cent worth.
the term used commonly, no-self, will be discerned differently.
on the literal front, it points to the annihilation of the self; the non-existence of a person. this is the view of the logic mind, and the subjective view is the basis from which such an understanding arises.
when the process is first seen, there is a sense of detachment from phenomena, in the form of a witness observing the arising and falling.
onwards, it is observed that even the witness is just a mirage, dependently arisen from the different thoughts that arised, in turn arisen from the conditions that are present. there's a sense of freedom in knowing and allowing the sense of self to come and go. sometimes this sense stays longer, depending on what we're doing on hand, as well as the habitual tendencies. but generally the view can be 'accessed' with ease.
in a sense, one can intuit that the sense of self is already no-self, in all aspects of the language.
feel free to add pointers, correct this view if it's wrong.
-
Originally posted by geis:
just half a cent worth.
the term used commonly, no-self, will be discerned differently.
on the literal front, it points to the annihilation of the self; the non-existence of a person. this is the view of the logic mind, and the subjective view is the basis from which such an understanding arises.
when the process is first seen, there is a sense of detachment from phenomena, in the form of a witness observing the arising and falling.
onwards, it is observed that even the witness is just a mirage, dependently arisen from the different thoughts that arised, in turn arisen from the conditions that are present. there's a sense of freedom in knowing and allowing the sense of self to come and go. sometimes this sense stays longer, depending on what we're doing on hand, as well as the habitual tendencies. but generally the view can be 'accessed' with ease.
in a sense, one can intuit that the sense of self is already no-self, in all aspects of the language.
feel free to add pointers, correct this view if it's wrong.
Hi Geis,
I am so happy for you !
Congrats!! :)
-
Originally posted by simpo_:
Hi Geis,
I am so happy for you !
Congrats!! :)
huh no la, still very much deluded and desires driven leh :)
-
Originally posted by geis:
just half a cent worth.
the term used commonly, no-self, will be discerned differently.
on the literal front, it points to the annihilation of the self; the non-existence of a person. this is the view of the logic mind, and the subjective view is the basis from which such an understanding arises.
when the process is first seen, there is a sense of detachment from phenomena, in the form of a witness observing the arising and falling.
onwards, it is observed that even the witness is just a mirage, dependently arisen from the different thoughts that arised, in turn arisen from the conditions that are present. there's a sense of freedom in knowing and allowing the sense of self to come and go. sometimes this sense stays longer, depending on what we're doing on hand, as well as the habitual tendencies. but generally the view can be 'accessed' with ease.
in a sense, one can intuit that the sense of self is already no-self, in all aspects of the language.
feel free to add pointers, correct this view if it's wrong.
Yes, the Witness is simply a mirage!
The sense of there being a 'Witness' of phenomena is simply a thought... in that thought, there is just a thought! There is no witness of thought... the witness of thought is simply a thought, a self-referencing thought. There is always just in thinking just thoughts. And in the hearing, just sound, there is no hearer of sound... just the self-luminous and self-accomplishing process of hearing. And so on... The sense of self is simply another sensation, a sensation that does not actually refer to anything: it is just a sensation without a sensor. A thought of self is also simply an empty thought, an empty label or story that does not refer to anything substantial. Everything is just like this... You do not come to see the mountain, the mountain simply 'sees'/'reveals' by itself without a seer... this has always been the case.
When it's seen that thoughts and sensations that imply self are actually not self but is simply a pure sensation happening to nobody, then it's coming and going becomes self-liberating. (Like you said, the sense of self is already no-self!) Otherwise, thoughts and sensations that imply self are clung to, solidifed, reified, and leads to a chain of suffeirng.
The annihilation of self is based on a false view of self: that it has existence to begin with, and is solid, real, etc.
By seeing the absence of an agent, or a solid, separate, permanent, controlling/perceiving self, such a view is overthrown... what remains is the arising and subsiding of arisings according to conditions.
How can there be a 'self' to annihilate when no 'self' is found to begin with?