I think we've all forgotten the good deeds that Ven Ming Yi did to the Buddhist community and to Ren Ci Hospital. He served as the Secretary-general of SBF for quite a number of years, and did a lot of good things during his tenure. I know because i was a devotee at Foo Hai Monastery, and Ven Ming Yi was my first Refuge Teacher. I really don't understand the reasoning behind SBF's stance now. If they wanted to discipline him they could have done it before he was sent for detention, why wait till after the temple's celebratory dinner in order to do so? It really makes no sense to me, personally.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
I know 2 of them who are long time devotees from Foo Hai Monastery. One is my neighbour and another is my close friend. They are fiercely defensive. Reasons for being so supportive are as follows :1) They witnessed what Ven. Ming Yi had gone through when he built Foo Hai Monastery from a run down temple. According to them, today's Foo Hai does not come easy. Ven. Ming Yi had gone through a lot of hardship (in terms of raising funds and hard work monitoring when rebuilding).
2) They witnessed what Ven. Ming Yi had gone through when Ren Ci was a poor hospital. Again, the hard work Ven. Ming Yi put in to raise funds (he contributed from his own pockets) and building it to today's Ren Ci.
3) They had seen the other side of Ming Yi which we have not seen. There was a couple approached Ven. Ming Yi many years ago to adopt their son as they could not afford to raise their child. Ven. Ming Yi brings the child up personally and did not send the child to orphange.The child is still in the temple. He is a teenager now.
I bear witness that what they said is true. In fact, i remember playing with the boy in example (3) when he was really still a small boy, this was in 1995. Ven Ming Yi had taken over a really run-down temple, but started to build up the temple as well setting up Ren Ci Hospital. Not only that, in 1993 Foo Hai held one of the first Buddhist Youth Camps held in Singapore. He's done a lot of good service for the Buddhist community in Singapore and i don't think we should forget that. Yes, money corrupts but religious figures are not saints either.
Originally posted by sanath:I think we've all forgotten the good deeds that Ven Ming Yi did to the Buddhist community and to Ren Ci Hospital. He served as the Secretary-general of SBF for quite a number of years, and did a lot of good things during his tenure. I know because i was a devotee at Foo Hai Monastery, and Ven Ming Yi was my first Refuge Teacher. I really don't understand the reasoning behind SBF's stance now. If they wanted to discipline him they could have done it before he was sent for detention, why wait till after the temple's celebratory dinner in order to do so? It really makes no sense to me, personally.
SBF is under pressure from other Buddhist leaders and lay Buddhists to take action due to the $1000 per table dinner.
Originally posted by sanath:I bear witness that what they said is true. In fact, i remember playing with the boy in example (3) when he was really still a small boy, this was in 1995. Ven Ming Yi had taken over a really run-down temple, but started to build up the temple as well setting up Ren Ci Hospital. Not only that, in 1993 Foo Hai held one of the first Buddhist Youth Camps held in Singapore. He's done a lot of good service for the Buddhist community in Singapore and i don't think we should forget that. Yes, money corrupts but religious figures are not saints either.
All the good cannot be erase but as a Sangha community, he should be subjected to the Vinaya rules as well. He should learn from the Buddha teaching that "gain, honour and fame" is the biggest obstacle to the path.
No one is sending him to the gallow but he should let go and return to the path.
Ming Yi is reaping the karma of his actions now isnt he. he has suffered jail time for the punishment of his misdeeds and now his reputation are in tatters.
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:SBF is under pressure from other Buddhist leaders and lay Buddhists to take action due to the $1000 per table dinner.
Which to me, is none other than "politics". An aquaintance put it quite aptly in Facebook:
so sad to see this happening. i cannot understand
why these people just cannot give ven m.y. some space for him to be
comfortable and give him a chance to move forward. who is perfect in
this world? is it not because of our imperfection that
we now have to strive and practice for perfection? if not, then we
would have been buddhas and great saints now. even if he had made
mistake and done wrong in the past, the government had taken their
actions and he had already served his dues. why is there another set of
community (formal, informal or as individual) coming up to try to pass
"judgement" or even demand for an apology. what is the objective? is it
to boost one's ego?? don't forget that whenever we point our index
finger at someone (wrong), we always have 3 other fingers pointing back
at us. where is the compassion that we stress so much and learn in our
faith?
I guess if this does not stop and continues further, we
could really see for ourselves who are the "real practitioners" . Action
speak louder than words!
I agree.
Originally posted by SevenEleven:All the good cannot be erase but as a Sangha community, he should be subjected to the Vinaya rules as well. He should learn from the Buddha teaching that "gain, honour and fame" is the biggest obstacle to the path.
No one is sending him to the gallow but he should let go and return to the path.
I don't think he broke any of the 4 major rules that requires him to be defrocked. But i do agree that he does need to do repentance, maybe to other senior monks or senior disciples, but i don't see the need for SBF to step-in and harp on the issue of the dinner.
Originally posted by sanath:I don't think he broke any of the 4 major rules that requires him to be defrocked. But i do agree that he does need to do repentance, maybe to other senior monks or senior disciples, but i don't see the need for SBF to step-in and harp on the issue of the dinner.
Isn't SBF responsible for all the Buddhist matters in Singapore ? SBF is doing for the sake of the Buddhist community and Buddhism in Singapore. Buddhists will lose faith in Buddhism if some Buddhist community continue to splurge on the gala dinners. This is the first time and if this is not stopped, there will be more to come. SBF is right, they 以大局为�。Buddhists contributions are for the temples and charitable deeds, not for anybody to splurge on unneccesary things.
Originally posted by sanath:Which to me, is none other than "politics". An aquaintance put it quite aptly in Facebook:
so sad to see this happening. i cannot understand why these people just cannot give ven m.y. some space for him to be comfortable and give him a chance to move forward. who is perfect in this world? is it not because of our imperfection that we now have to strive and practice for perfection? if not, then we would have been buddhas and great saints now. even if he had made mistake and done wrong in the past, the government had taken their actions and he had already served his dues. why is there another set of community (formal, informal or as individual) coming up to try to pass "judgement" or even demand for an apology. what is the objective? is it to boost one's ego?? don't forget that whenever we point our index finger at someone (wrong), we always have 3 other fingers pointing back at us. where is the compassion that we stress so much and learn in our faith?
I guess if this does not stop and continues further, we could really see for ourselves who are the "real practitioners" . Action speak louder than words!I agree.
I see the demand for an apology is not that Ven. Ming Yi had made a serious mistake. As the $50,000 was not for his own use. According to my friends, Ven. Ming Yi is the type of person who hardly turns down anybody who approach him for help including long term commitment like bringing up a child. However, I see the apology is more for ruining the name of Buddhism due to the unfortunate incident.
I think the important thing is not about putting anyone down or promoting anyone to a higher "in-charge" status. Any action should have solely the intention for the preservation of Buddhism.
Also, there are so many Buddhist cults around teaching externalist practices masquerading in the form of Buddhism - I think that is more dangerous.
We are in no position to handle the situation too, it's best to let it go and let things take their course. What we can do is work hard in our own cultivation, graduate, and come back to teach and transform beings.
Hope he'll repent. Can he still be a monk? There are rumours that he can no longer be a monk....is it true?
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Isn't SBF responsible for all the Buddhist matters in Singapore ? SBF is doing for the sake of the Buddhist community and Buddhism in Singapore. Buddhists will lose faith in Buddhism if some Buddhist community continue to splurge on the gala dinners. This is the first time and if this is not stopped, there will be more to come. SBF is right, they 以大局为�。Buddhists contributions are for the temples and charitable deeds, not for anybody to splurge on unneccesary things.
Not all Buddhist centers in Singapore are affiliated to SBF, Foo Hai Monastery is though. It's not the first time that gala dinners have been held; maybe it's the first in honour of a monk whose just been released from prison, but gala dinners have been held as fundraising activities for temples and centers. Maybe the media is harping on the issue as Ven Ming Yi was just released from prison, if not, no one would be making a hoo-haa on the issue. The dinner was Foo Hai Monastery's way of commemorating Ven Ming Yi's 20th year as abbot of the temple; it just so happened that it was held after his release from prison.
Originally posted by Demon Bane:Hope he'll repent. Can he still be a monk? There are rumours that he can no longer be a monk....is it true?
Look at my above reply to SevenEleven. If misappropriation of funds (which were not for his own use, he didn't pocket the money) is considered a violation of the precept against stealing, then he can be defrocked.
Looks like the SBF have decided to drop its idea of bringing Ven. Ming Yi to task and moved on to other things.
A pro tem disciplinary committee would be set up to decide if Ven Ming Yi should be demoted or defrocked, provided he steps forward voluntarily, said the report. Ven Ming Yi, 48, the founder and former chief executive of Ren Ci Hospital, was sentenced to six months in jail and served four months for charges related to misappropriation of funds. |
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Originally posted by sanath:Look at my above reply to SevenEleven. If misappropriation of funds (which were not for his own use, he didn't pocket the money) is considered a violation of the precept against stealing, then he can be defrocked.
1 of the 5 precepts is no lying. Falsifying accounts is against no lying precept.
Looks like this issue is still red hot in today’s Sunday Times.
Originally posted by Aik TC:
Looks like this issue is still red hot in today’s Sunday Times.
Communist movement and racial tension of the past also occasionally surfaced in the newspaper instead of moving forwards, be optimistic and acknowledge peace and loving society from within. It is normal for samsara world kind of modus operandi as they love to.
well...
if u ask me, me tink dat...
1stly, it is none of singapore buddhist federation's bizness to judge him.
2ndly, it is oso none of aik tc's bizness on whom they wan to invite frm or to whrever.
Certain things are maybe unpleasant to know and discussed about, but again, it may be a matter of see no evil, hear no evil, and speak of no evil to some, and the whole thing will eventually go away?
u hv juz asked urself a qn.
Like to have your opinion too.
Originally posted by Hello Kitty:well...
if u ask me, me tink dat...
1stly, it is none of singapore buddhist federation's bizness to judge him.
2ndly, it is oso none of aik tc's bizness on whom they wan to invite frm or to whrever.
None of my business? It is an issue that concerned the Buddhist faith, and I am happens to be a Buddhist. To you, what are forums for, by the way?
Originally posted by Aik TC:
Certain things are maybe unpleasant to know and discussed about, but again, it may be a matter of see no evil, hear no evil, and speak of no evil to some, and the whole thing will eventually go away?
If no one teach Monk Ming Yi what is Buddhism all about, he will still continue to do things that are hurtful to Buddhism. Hope that the senior monks will go and see him and tell him what is monkhood all about.
They may not be able to do much to Ven. Ming Yi when he still has a large following of devotees to sustain him. But the SBF certainly need to tighten the rules and regulations with regards to wayward monks, especially the less established ones that have to depend on SBF affiliates for their daily needs and sustenance.
Most Buddhists would have at least taken their refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. These are the three pillars of Buddhism. The collapses of any one of these would mean the end of the religion as well.
Ven. Ming Yi case involves the Sangha, and the issue of errant monks will certainly need to be addressed sooner or later. It may fade away after sometimes if nothing is done, but ultimately another errant monk will surface again in future, and the problems will still be there to be resolved. Better to solve it now where possible, and spare the pains for future Buddhists to settle on this issue.