To An Eternal Now, lets get this straight...

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 13:37

  To An Eternal Now, lets get this straight... Are u saying that Confucianism and Daoism, its moral education is the same as Buddhism moral education?

• An Eternal Now

  13 Jan 11, 13:39

  PMed you.

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 13:58

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  PMed you.

  Here's your answer to me:

  "I have not studied indepth so cannot give you a straight answer.

  But apparently many of the principles are quite compatible with the morality aspect of Buddhism.

  That said, morality is not enough for liberation."

  Here's what I am gonna say,

  Compatible but that doesn't mean that if one wanna study and practice Buddhism, one got to, have to use Confucianism and Daoism moral education moral teachings as entry and foundation to Buddhism.

  To insist Confucianism and Daoism moral education/ teaching is the only entry and foundation to Buddhism thats false view, thats unorthodox Buddhism.

• An Eternal Now

  13 Jan 11, 14:01

  Agree. It is not 'the only'. In fact Buddhism alone is enough and covers from foundations to advanced.

  Just that the principles are similar and found in other texts and even in society itself (in our non-religious civics and moral education teachings) - just that it is often overlooked.

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 14:13

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  Agree. It is not 'the only'. In fact Buddhism alone is enough and covers from foundations to advanced.

  Just that the principles are similar and found in other texts and even in society itself (in our non-religious civics and moral education teachings) - just that it is often overlooked.

  You said,

  "Agree. It is not 'the only'. In fact Buddhism alone is enough and covers from foundations to advanced."

  I say,

  Exactly. *Gassho* (�掌）。Thank you.

  But to a certain Buddhist Dharma Master (I will refrain from stating his name here), Confucianism and Daoism are the only entry and foundation to Buddhism. He didn't view Buddhism alone is enough or suitable to cover the foundation.

  Which is the reason, I feel oblige to bring it up. 'cause that kind of teaching from that certain Dharma Master, its unorthdox Buddhism.

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 14:34

  Why are you picking on this over 100 years old monk?  Did you study other buddhist schools/faiths to compare with what you consider unorthodox?

  This centurian monk has meditation centres that help many elderly to pass away in peace chanting Amituofo , some with Sariras after cremation.  This is not made public and splashing over headlines but those in the circle knows.

  Just because he emphazies the importance of Confusianism , you condemn him?

   

   

   

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 14:51

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  Why are you picking on this over 100 years old monk?  Did you study other buddhist schools/faiths to compare with what you consider unorthodox?

  This centurian monk has meditation centres that help many elderly to pass away in peace chanting Amituofo , some with Sariras after cremation.  This is not made public and splashing over headlines but those in the circle knows.

  Just because he emphazies the importance of Confusianism , you condemn him?

  I dun think its right for any Dharma Master to mislead people into thinking Confucianism and Daoism are the only entry and foundation to Buddhism. Am I wrong to highlight it, in case other people might get misinformation from that particular Dharma Master? Am I wrong to post a warning sign on unorthdox Buddhism which I chance upon?

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 15:09

  I think you are wrong to take an excerpt from one of his books and then conclude that this centurian monk wants the foundation to be based on Confucianism. Then you go around emphazing on just one point of his teachings among all his other dharma teachings.

  I am sure many know Monk Jing Kong starts from the sutra on Amituofo Buddha and teaches the 7 days of chanting Amituofo Buddha.

  By the way, nobody ever mentioned that Monk Jing Kong associate Daoism with Buddhism. Including his followers.  Only you.   Show me the article that says Daoism is the foundation to Buddhism.

• Dawnfirstlight

  13 Jan 11, 15:15

  LOCK! LOCK! LOCK!

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 15:28

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  I think you are wrong to take an excerpt from one of his books and then conclude that this centurian monk wants the foundation to be based on Confucianism. Then you go around emphazing on just one point of his teachings among all his other dharma teachings.

  I am sure many know Monk Jing Kong starts from the sutra on Amituofo Buddha and teaches the 7 days of chanting Amituofo Buddha.

  By the way, nobody ever mentioned that Monk Jing Kong associate Daoism with Buddhism. Including his followers.  Only you.   Show me the article that says Daoism is the foundation to Buddhism.

  Its from his dharma talk. His view, that Confucianism and Daoism are the entry and founation to Buddhism is pretty clear here in this below dharma talk. Its not out of context excerpt.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0y_H613Mk

  "如果在家�學，你首先影響的是你一家，你一家人得度。從哪裡�起？你必須�知�佛法是

  ­å¸«é�“，師é�“一定是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上，淨業三ç¦�是學佛ä¸�管你是學哪個宗派ã€�哪個法門，­å®ƒæ˜¯æœ€é«˜çš„指導原則決定ä¸�能ç–�忽。三ç¦�頭一æ¢�ã€�頭一å�¥ã€Œå­�養父æ¯�，奉事師長ã€�，你å�šåˆ°­äº†æ²’有？人生在這個世間最大的æ�©äººï¼Œé¤Šè‚²ä½ çš„ã€�教導你的就這兩個人 - 父æ¯�ã€�è€�師，父æ¯�ã€�è€�師ä¸�知é�“å­�敬å�«èƒŒå¸«å�›é�“，大ä¸�å­�ã€�大ä¸�敬，那什麼樣的果報？自己­æƒ³ä¸€æƒ³å°±å�¯ä»¥çŸ¥é�“了，這是我們ä¸�能ä¸�知é�“的。我們一定è¦�克盡å­�é�“，從哪裡學起？學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上。所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了。你è¦�知é�“中國傳統­æ–‡åŒ–儒釋é�“是一家，決定ä¸�能分離的。形å¼�上有儒釋é�“，實際上沒有。
  
  你看看中國自å�¤ä»¥ä¾†ï¼Œçœ‹çœ‹ã€Šé«˜åƒ§å‚³ã€‹ã€�《居士傳》，哪一個學佛的人沒有讀《四書》ã€�《­äº”經》？都學，基礎。哪一個學佛的人ä¸�念《感應篇》？ä¸�念《è€�莊》？統統學，é�“長也學­ä½›ï¼Œå„’家的這些è�–賢他也學佛，所以é�ŽåŽ»å„’釋é�“三個根都紮了，åƒ�鼎三足頂立，根深蒂固。­æ‰€ä»¥ç„¡è«–是學儒ã€�å­¸é�“ã€�學佛都有æˆ�就。學儒，æˆ�è�–æˆ�賢；學é�“，æˆ�神ã€�æˆ�仙，神仙；學佛­ï¼Œæˆ�ä½›æˆ�è�©è–©ï¼Œçµ±çµ±æœ‰æˆ�就。所以很多å�Œå­¸å•�我從哪裡學起？從《弟å­�è¦�》學起，《弟å­�è¦�­ã€‹æ²’有學到人都å�šä¸�好，怎麼能作佛呢？哪有這個é�“ç�†ï¼Ÿä¸�但è¦�學《弟å­�è¦�》，近代å�°å…‰å¤§­å¸«æ•™æˆ‘們è¦�把因果教育擺在第一。"

  Base on this dharma talk, and I had came across a few MJK fan, pushing Di Zi Gui for newbie Buddhist to read, and I go think about it, I know I have to sound off the alarm. People should know about it that Jing Kong Dharma Master teaching the part where he emphaize Confucianism and Daoism as entry and foundation to Buddhism, its unorthdox Buddhism.

  
  

• Amitayus48

  13 Jan 11, 15:38

  Actually your post also benefit many readers who visit this forum although the insight provided may not answered the doubt 一粒眼根， 永为�� mah.

  It would be nice if  you share your insight of enlightenment based on sutra here so that we can enjoy and be enlightened.

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 15:40

  There is absolutely no mention of Daoism in the article up there.  Do you know what is Daoism in the first place?   (don't tell me your mandarin is so lousy that you mix up the two words filial piety with daoism, hahahahah )

  Filial Piety is a good virtue.  Monk Jing Kong is emphazing on that. Nothing wrong.

  Unless you yourself hate the thought of Filial Piety ( you hate your parents?).

  I can only conclude something is wrong with you for trying to get others to agree with you to condemn Monk Jing Kong over a chapter in one of his books.

  To me, that article is more historical story telling then emphazing the foundation of Buddhism. 

   

   

• Amitayus48

  13 Jan 11, 15:41

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  LOCK! LOCK! LOCK!

  hahahaha how come the lips cannot open and close!

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 15:54

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  There is absolutely no mention of Daoism in the article up there.  Do you know what is Daoism in the first place?   (don't tell me your mandarin is so lousy that you mix up the two words filial piety with daoism, hahahahah )

  Filial Piety is a good virtue.  Monk Jing Kong is emphazing on that. Nothing wrong.

  Unless you yourself hate the thought of Filial Piety ( you hate your parents?).

  I can only conclude something is wrong with you for trying to get others to agree with you to condemn Monk Jing Kong over a chapter in one of his books.

  To me, that article is more historical story telling then emphazing the foundation of Buddhism. 

   

   

  ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION on Daoism in the article? U better go check your eyesight...

  "...所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了。..."

  Its a false view, and unorthdox Buddhism for Jing Kong Dharma Master to think that Confucianism and Daoism are the only entry and foundation to Buddhism. The reason, Buddhism do cover the entry and foundation to Buddhism! No need to go into Buddhism via Confucianism and Daoism. Its unorthodox Buddhism and its a false view to think otherwise.

• geis

  13 Jan 11, 15:56

  Originally posted by Amitayus48:

  hahahaha how come the lips cannot open and close!

  lips are for kissing :p

• An Eternal Now

  13 Jan 11, 15:58

  I believe MCK is talking about 儒 and � as principles rather than as a religion.

  Obviously you don't need to study Confucianism and Taoism (though it would be good) in order to be enlightened in Buddhism.

  If this were the case, then Buddhists who do not live in China would never have the chance to be enlightened... or Buddha's students in India 2500 years ago would not have a chance to be enlightened.

  Rather, I believe MCK is talking about 儒 and � as principles (though related to those religions) that are fundamental to Buddhism, and that if you remove these principles, you remove the root of Buddhism.

• 18th Vow

  13 Jan 11, 16:01

   

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 16:08

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  I can only conclude something is wrong with you for trying to get others to agree with you to condemn Monk Jing Kong over a chapter in one of his books.

  To me, that article is more historical story telling then emphazing the foundation of Buddhism. 

  I am sure its not just one dharma talk he emphasize on Di Zi Gui, and Confucianism as the foundation to Buddhism.

  "如果能把弟�规�实，真的�到，纵然没有�三皈五戒，念佛都决定往生。"

   

  http://hi.baidu.com/%CE%DE%C1%BF%CA%D9%D7%AF%D1%CF%C7%E5%BE%BB/blog/item/3e42aaca3873871393457e06.html

• Amitayus48

  13 Jan 11, 16:08

  Originally posted by geis:

  lips are for kissing :p

  

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 16:18

  hahahaha.........whose lips kissing who ?   

   

  Zenist.....do you know that Buddhism comes from India ?  It's indian guru who brings teachings of Indian guru to China which become the foundation of Buddhism.

  Now monk Jing Kong is trying to include a bit of china roots into his teachings.

  When he says Tao, he means the Way . He doesn't mean Taoism/Daoism.

  I think your mandarin is not up to the level to understand his teachings.

   

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 16:18

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  I believe MCK is taling about 儒 and � as principles rather than as a religion.

  Obviously you don't need to study Confucianism and Taoism (though it would be good) in order to be enlightened in Buddhism.

  If this were the case, then Buddhists who do not live in China would never have the chance to be enlightened... or Buddha's students in India 2500 years ago would not have a chance to be enlightened.

  Rather, I believe MCK is talking about 儒 and � as principles (though related to those religions) that are fundamental to Buddhism, and that if you remove these principles, you remove the root of Buddhism.

  Are the principles of Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism the same? Are they interchangable? Correct me if I am wrong, I dun think they are the same. There might be some similarities, compatibility, but one cannot subtitute Buddhism with other teachings isnt it? In this aspect, MJK teaching its unorthdox Buddhism when he put emphasis on Daoism and Confucianism as entry and foundation to Buddhism.

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 16:20

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  I am sure its not just one dharma talk he emphasize on Di Zi Gui, and Confucianism as the foundation to Buddhism.

  "如果能把弟�规�实，真的�到，纵然没有�三皈五戒，念佛都决定往生。"

   

  http://hi.baidu.com/%CE%DE%C1%BF%CA%D9%D7%AF%D1%CF%C7%E5%BE%BB/blog/item/3e42aaca3873871393457e06.html

  Zenist refering to your quote , i will include this one ,

   

  even without 三皈五戒，念佛
  you can also achieve enlightenment/buddhahood with your own chakra system and kundalini.

   

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 16:22

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Are the principles of Daoism, Confucianism and Buddhism the same? Are they interchangable? Correct me if I am wrong, I dun think they are the same. There might be some similarities, compatibility, but one cannot subtitute Buddhism with other teachings isnt it? In this aspect, MJK teaching its unorthdox Buddhism when he put emphasis on Daoism and Confucianism as entry and foundation to Buddhism.

  
  All present Buddhism is already unorthdox when you consider they have already detour from ancient Indian Buddhism.

  Are you sure they are 100% buddhist teachings as taught by Sakyamuni Buddha?

   

• Zenist69

  13 Jan 11, 16:23

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  hahahaha.........whose lips kissing who ?   

   

  Zenist.....do you know that Buddhism comes from India ?  It's indian guru who brings teachings of Indian guru to China which become the foundation of Buddhism.

  Now monk Jing Kong is trying to include a bit of china roots into his teachings.

  When he says Tao, he means the Way . He doesn't mean Taoism/Daoism.

  I think your mandarin is not up to the level to understand his teachings.

   

  When he advocate people should study Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian, a Daoist text, he is in fact talking about Daoism.

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 16:26

  So what's wrong with studying another text?  When your views are opened up , you improve your visions, your boundaries, your mental thinking.

   

  Right now, you are just stepping on the same spot, sprouting the same words and refusing to move one step further.

  Others are improving while you are stagnent.  Binded by your narrow visions and narrow mind.

  You are definitely not a Zenist.  You should change your ID.