To An Eternal Now, lets get this straight...

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 18:20

  皈�佛，生生世世�皈�外�天魔；
  　皈�法，生生世世�信奉外�邪教；
  　皈�僧，生生世世�跟�外�门徒。
  
  my goodness, where did you copy this three vows from ? how come you people can make up your own three vows?  Which buddhist sect are you from Zenist69? who is your dharma master?

  I only know the very positive three vows....Follow the Buddha and vow to reach the utmost wisdom in the Dharma Sea.

  Zenist69, the ultimate wisdom can only be realised by yourself , through your own cultivation.  It should not be human's words and laws that you must follow to a tee.

  Then you are just being "brainwashed" and "manipulated' by the singular human you worship.

   

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:22

  I copied the 3 vows?
  
  Ermm.. see if sinweiy or dawnlight want to answer you if I made up this three vows myself?
  
  But one thing for sure, you have never been through the refuge vow taking ceremony.

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 18:24

  Wee shun which temple you go to ? which dharma master you follow. 

  My dharma vows are a level you can't reach yet. 

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:26

  1) �等善男�善女人今天自愿�心皈�佛，以佛为师，生生世世�皈�外�天魔，

  �等能��到?
  
  2) �等善男�善女人今天自愿�心皈�法，以法为师，生生世世�信奉外�邪教，
  
  �等能��到?
  
  3) �等善男�善女人今天自愿�心皈�僧，以僧为师，生生世世�跟�外�门徒,
  
  �等能��到?
  
  
  my question is
  �等能��到?
  
  
  
  p/s: I am not zenist69

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 18:29

  of course i know you are not zenist69.

   

  which temple you go to to take these vows, who is your dharma master?

   

  same question to zenist 69.

   

   

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:31

  My body is my temple, the teachings of the Buddha is my master. I am not sure of your high and deep dharma vows but I do not that the refuge vows are NOT made up as you have accused of.
  
  And forgot to tell you, refuge vows are the most basic foundational aspect of all vows, even using the 5 vechicle common dharma (Wu cheng gong fa) the Triple gems is stil the foundation. So no matter how high and how deep or unimagineable dharma vows you have, when you basic is built wrong on erronous view, its like a drop of poison which will pollute the vast ocean of dharma.

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:32

  How about you tell me which temple do you go to and which dharma master you follow since i shared with you mine?

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 18:35

  Goodness. you people got the cheeks to critize a buddhist monk when you people dare not even say which temple you go to take these weird 3 vows.

  You didn't even dare to reveal the name of your dharma master yet you critize another dharma master.

   

   

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:41

  Err.. i took my refuge under the guidance of Master Hsing Yun, this i am very glad to share with you. However I do not belong to any temples.
  
  Also I demand you to apologise for calling this three basic foundational refuge vows as weird vows, this not only misleads others but also a deep disrespect for the authentic flow of the Triple Refuges Vow.
  
  Just to share with you, this refuge vows is not composed by me or master hsing yun, its a common refuge vow shared by almost all chinese mahayanist Buddhist.
  
  I demand a apology or the moderator should do something to such accusations.

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 18:43

  Just for your info, this three alien and weird vows as proclaimed by you, read here:
  
  http://www.fgs.org.tw:81/gate/gb/www.fgs.org.tw/master/mastera/books/system/religionize/05.htm

  皈�三�的程�

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• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 18:58

  my generation and your generation is different.   You follow Monk Xin Yun.

  So two different groups here.  Very political.

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:04

  Errr ... again, this refuge vow is not composed by Master Hsing Yun, refuge vows do not change with times, it has always been like this.
  
  Like it or not, this is the fact.
  
  Since I have shared with you generously, should you on courtesy share with me too which temple and which master you follow?
  
  Esp your "Generation" kind of refuge vow and your "generation" kind of Master .. I might be an eye opener. The Dharma is bright like the moon, there is nothing to hide but everything to share.
  

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:06

  I forgot to add on, I do not follow "Master Hsing Yun", it just happened that my Refuge taking was certified under the auspice of Master Hsing Yun.
  
  Thank you

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 19:08

  The 3 refuge vows changes with different temples (not all used such lengthy version) and in different generation, it is not exactly the same.

  During my generation, only the 1) and 3) are taken.  the no 2) are just recently added.

  There are temples who used the first 5 buddhist vows as refuge vows. The term you mentioned what gong fa sounds more like fa lun gong than buddhism.  Normally, i am used to hearing the five precepts and not five vehicle gong fa.

   Any way, Monk Hsing Yun has his own way of doing things.  He is also a powerful monk.

  I follow my chakra and kundalini now. My body is my temple.

  My first teacher is Sakyamuni Buddha.

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:09

  Also I demand you to apologise openly to the forum that you accused the sacred buddhist refuge vows as "three weird vows"
  
  Namo Amituofo

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 19:15

  you demand ?!!!!  hahahaha...........

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:19

  Err.. again, the refuge vows does not changes with temples, all chinese mahayana Buddhists abide and take this refuge vow. The only difference might only be the procedure and ceremony wise, the Vows has not been changed.
  
  I request again to know which temple and master you are following|? Wouldn't it be basic courtesy for you to answer me since I have shared with you so generously upon your questioning?
  
  1 and 3 ? Oh No... you can chose to take refuge only in 1) Buddha and 3) Sangha? What kind of generation are you from? Since when Buddhism advocate Duo Gem? Triple Gems has always been the core of Buddhism. 如求�三皈弟�先称法，�称佛，��三皈，因为三��次有差别，��颠倒。《�婆多论》
  
  
  Also Wu Cheng Gong Fa 五乘共法，is not a Falungong thingy, it again basic Buddhism. Since when the 5 Yana Common Dharma became a falungong thing? Or you want to tell me "YOUR GENERATION" don't have wu cheng gong fa?

• Wiser

  13 Jan 11, 19:21

  Sigh ! 

   

  ��皈�（和尚念一�，皈�者��念一�）
  1..皈�佛，皈�法，皈�僧。
  　皈�佛两足尊，皈�法离欲尊，皈�僧众中尊。
  　皈�佛竟，皈�法竟，皈�僧竟。（一拜）
  3.皈�佛，皈�法，皈�僧。
  　皈�佛，生生世世永�堕地狱；
  　皈�法，生生世世永�堕畜生；
  　皈�僧，生生世世永�堕饿鬼。
  　皈�佛竟，皈�法竟，皈�僧竟。（一拜）

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:21

  Yesh, I demand for the clearity of false accusations for calling sacred Buddhist refuge vows as WEIRD.
  
  Refuge vows are not weird, it's meant for Buddhists like us to uphold and live it.
  
  Apologise please, thank you.
  
  
  Moderators kindly take note.

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:24

  errr .. so i can only say, the refuge vows you took was incomplete ? Or your refuge vows encouraged and allowed you to take refuge in non buddhist sutras and beings?

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:28

  Gosh, now you tell me Sakyamuni Buddha is your teacher? You mean your refuge vow taking was certified under the auspice of the Buddha himself?
  
  it would be quite surpising to know that Sakyamuni Buddha taught you 1 and 3 refuge vows in chinese as you claimed.
  
  Namo Amituofo

• WeeShun

  13 Jan 11, 19:35

  五乘共法

  發增上生心，修集生人生天的正常法門，是佛法中的下士�。這也就是出世�法的根基，所以�為五乘共法。這是說：修出世的三乘�法，雖�求人天果報，但�能�具足這人天功德。這如從新竹去臺北，雖�必在桃園下車，��能�經歷到桃園的旅程。如但以求生人間天上為目標，就�為人乘，天乘，是佛教的共世間法。如儒家，近於人乘；�教，耶教，回教，通於天乘。既然一般世間法，也�能��生人生天的目的，那未求生人間天國的人，何必一定�歸�三寶，修學佛教的五乘共法呢？佛法並沒有說，求生人間天上，�歸�三寶，修佛教的人天乘��。�是，如歸�三寶而修五乘共法，�但更為穩當，而且已進入佛乘的大門。���上�進，就�直入出世法了。�之，如信其他宗教，雖也能生人生天，但沒有在三寶中�集善緣，或�而引起�必�的固執（宗教的�見）。��人天法而進入出世法的大�，�但�能貫通，�而壅塞了。所以�是求生人間，天國，歸�三寶，在佛法中修行，也比歸信其他宗教好得多�
  
  So is this a falungong thing? or your generation don't have this again?
  
  Namo Amituofo

• sinweiy

  13 Jan 11, 20:15

  erm seem like "children" fighting with one another de. and a grandpa, looks on with a more let go mind. :) how old u all huh?  somemore 2 buddhists, think how people will see and judge buddhism? bad image know?

  wiser, see ur level of cultivation. if u can apologise, i salute ur cultivation - å¿�.

  as i mentioned before, to me 外é�“ real meaning is 心外求法之外é�“. Externalist of the MIND. so even if the vows are true, i'm fine, just depend on interpretation. to me, the website's messager that slander, name calling, take word out of context and using harsh words are the 外é�“. can i also ask for apologise?

  邪教 will be really evil cult that teach sucide killing and stuff.

  think best don't fixed on a view too soon. as we get older and experience more, wisdom/realisation can change and up a level. also respect ur teacher 100% who ever it may be. pls don't target on MCK. he's not the only masters who advocate oneness of religion. last time also have, now also have. if u only target him alone, then i think u are not targeting because of his teaching, but the person itself. u can say the teaching of wat wat wat is not correct etc. but pls don't target any masters unless they really teach evil, killing sucide and stuff. if ordain person break the precepts, ok la. can forgive, no one is perfect mah. use the silience treatment as not to destroy the image of buddhism for years to come.

  Long live Buddhadharma.

  thank you!

  AMTF! 

  /\

• pureland_zen

  13 Jan 11, 20:25

  hi everybody wat does orthodox Buddhism mean ?

   

• sinweiy

  13 Jan 11, 20:36

  Originally posted by pureland_zen:

  hi everybody wat does orthodox Buddhism mean ?

   

  
  to me:-

  "Those who teach a Dhamma for the abandoning of passion, for the abandoning of aversion, for the abandoning of delusion — their Dhamma is well-taught." AN 3.72 - Ajivaka Sutta

  see the Buddha use the word "their".

  last time also got Brahma religion person came to learn Buddhism from Buddha. Buddha told them no need to change religion. they can still attain arahathood.

  /\