Is Yi Kwan Tao Buddhism?

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 00:34

  Originally posted by WeeShun:

  wiser, so it shows something, you have not verfied for yrself personally the pen tray thingy. According to Ven Chin Kung, he bows to Jesus, Mary, Taoist Gods when he visits their place of worship, so what's wrong with you bowing to yikwantao's founder?
  
  Yikwantao rojaks all good teachings? then Ven CK never rojak?
  
  Yikwantao never teach people to not kill, do good and be good person?

  why should i verify myself personally when the yi kwan tao inner member shares with me what happened inside?

  It's good Ven Chin Kung respects all and bows to all. But i am sure he may not bow to the founder of yi kwan tao.  Why should i bow to the founder of yi kwan tao ? based on what reasons and what merits?

  Ven CK highlights the good teachings of others to complement his dharma teachings.

  Yi kwan tao rojaks the good teachings of others and used it as their principal teachings. See the difference?

   

• sinweiy

  14 Jan 11, 00:34

  Originally posted by Weychin:

   

  Off topic, is there a problem in posting in this forum?

  
  maybe traffic too high..u all really no need sleep...i working tomorrow...so...logging off soon....rest...

  Amituofo!

  /\

   

• Zenist69

  14 Jan 11, 00:38

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

   

  nice.

  MCK pay gratitutes to those "bothering" people. Amituofo.

  別的人找你麻煩的�毀謗你的�侮辱你的�陷害你的，一笑了之，為什麼？�的。他能傷害你什麼？能傷害你的身體。傷害�了你的自性，你的自性是金剛那羅延身，沒有辦法傷害的。這些毀謗�侮辱�陷害，給諸�說，好事�是壞事，�待這些人還�生感�的心，為什麼？他消我的業障。我們在六�裡頭無始劫來，你說造多少惡業，這業障怎麼消除？他們這些人用這個方法�我，我��敬敬的「阿彌陀佛�，完全接�，業障就消除。

  http://new.amtb-aus.org/tushuwenzi/ShowArticle2.asp?ArticleID=02-039-0232

   

  Nobody is looking for trouble with MJK. Its he himself looking for trouble, 自找麻烦。

• Fcukpap

  14 Jan 11, 00:42

  the change of position or the position of change......

  乾�大挪移

   

• Fcukpap

  14 Jan 11, 00:47

  

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 01:46

  Sinwei, the Buddhist concept of Karma does not involve a Deity or god above our heads as per believed by Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian. The Buddhist concept of Karma works well along with our 6 senses which stores in the 7th consicuousnes and ripens on the 8th Alaya.
  
  Buddhism is not a religion of a particular deity recording and rewarding us according to good and bad merits. From this i tell you i know, so my question back to you is, how do you know that Buddhism got a deity above your head in charge of rewards and record system ?

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 01:51

  weychin, Waterloo Guan Yin Temple has never considered itself Buddhism, it has always declared itself to be under the Xian Tian Dao lineage and Xian Tian Dao has a history of embracing all three religions as the core of their religions. They have another sister temple at Joo Jiat.
  
  But when Buddhist temple starts teaching and distributing and even preaching non buddhist teachings to Buddhists, problems arises. The Buddhist temple is responsible for propagating the teachings of the Buddha and not taoism, as Buddhists we build our foundation and grow on the path the Buddha had lead and taught to us not Laozi or Jesus path.
  

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 01:56

  sinweiy, it is not a matter of finding trouble. Honestly speaking, as a buddhist myself, I find it useless to find trouble with another buddhist but that does not equate to me for passively accepting someone who spreads non buddhist teachings in the name of "entry" for Buddhism. As I have mentioned to you, is the 5 precepts 10 wholesome deeds and the Singalovda sutra not enough for us buddhists that we have to seek taoist and confucian scriptures?
  
  Also I vouch for myself that the Dharma is my main concern not finding trouble, the reason why I spend a quater of businese profit to print Buddhist sutras to distribute all over the world instead of printing qurans, bibles, ganyipians?
  
  Namo Amituofo

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 02:02

  Wiser, why should you not verify for yourself then? Didn't the Buddha teach in the Kalama Sutta for us to test and verify by ourselves?
  
  According to Ven Chin Kung, all religions are the same .. Yikwantao says the same thing. what's so diff in their teachings now?
  
  Ven CK can rojak and Yikwantao cannot rojak?
  
  Also i repost the question to Sinwei, which of our pureland lineage master practise Namo Tai Shang Lao Jun to attain rebirth in pureland? Which of them rely on the Quran and Bible and go to pureland? Which sutra did the Buddha taught that?
  

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 02:54

  Weeshun why don't you verify what i had verify about Yi Guan Tao ? Why don't you go to redhill/sengkang and verify what i said is correct or not?

  You mindless printing of buddhist sutras are not representative of what you think you do is perfectly according to the teachings of buddha.  In fact Sakyamuni Buddha never write any book or print any sutra. So what you are doing is unorthodox. 

   Before the discovery of the Pureland sutra by one monk in one of the ancient dynasty of China, what did the buddhists practise ?  How did they go to the pureland?   I can tell you the buddhists may be practising exactly what Monk Jing Kong is talking about, confucianism.  Because this is more ancient in China than buddhism.  And Taoism is also more ancient than Buddhism in China. When the indian guru brings Buddhism into China, what do you think the newly converted buddhists practise then ? Pureland chanting? this has not even been discovered yet.

  Please go and study some buddhist history before you even mock at a  learned Senior Monk.

   

   

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 03:33

  Wiser, I  asked you to go to their HQ to verify because I was once a member of Yi Kwan Tao, it also very prevalent here in Taiwan. From my exprience in Singapore group, they do not practise "fu ji" the Y stick and sand thing, this is perfectly why i asked you to verify for yrself instead of hearing "someone says so"
  
  Buddhist sutras first appeared 500 years after the Buddha's Nirvana and in the peroid between, Buddhist teachings depends greatly on memorization and oral transmittion. Sutras were later insribed on leafs and with then people start to copy write them and slowly evolved into printing sutras, so with this unbroken lineage and rapid improvment to the present printing or even E-version of sutra, so what's so unorthordox here?
  
  The Buddhist sutras were not "discovered" by some ancient chinese people. It was obtained through various Buddhist masters by their trips to india to quest to bring back Buddhist scriptures to China, the more more well known one would be Hsuan Tsang.
  
  Before the official arrival of Buddhism in China, most people were practising confucianism, taoism or Shamanism and later Buddhism were introuduced to China royalty and later commoners. I have no disagreements that people were practising confucianism and taoism before Buddhism, however I would like to point out, first: we now have a perfect translation of buddhist sutras and system of Buddhism here in Singapore and in China now, do we still need to act as if there is no Buddhism? I can understand if there is no Buddhism and people are embracing confucian and taoist teachings and this further prove the importance on spreading the Dharma to more people so that they can listen, learn and practise the Dharma. Being unable to to encounter the Dharma is one of the eight unfortunate destiny. (Ba Nan Chu)  Thus in order for the welfare of all sentient beings we should spread and expose them to Buddhist teachings instead of Taoism, Confucianism, Christianity or even Islam.
  
  In the previous post which i was expecting you to answer on accusing the Wu Cheng Gong Fa as falungong thingy, it's quite basic Buddhism which i have posted to you and are you telling me its still a falungong thing?
  
  Here I am talking history to you..
  
  I forgot to tell you, Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian and Wen Chang Di Jun Ying Shi Wen as promoted by Venerable Chin Kung is a product of "Fu Ji" the "Pen and tray" thing you mentioned that cannot be believed. Don't believe? Do a research for yourself, don't just believe.
  
  I am nobody to mock at any senior monk nor fellow buddhist, I am only pointing out our own buddhist heritage of sutras is solely enough and I await your reply.
  
  Thank you and Namo Amituofo.

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 03:46

  http://taishandaojia.com.cn/html/19/t-20219.html
  
  
  --- 对佛教徒宣传�通《玉历�钞》等民间伪造善书的批评
  
  登陆过一些佛教网站，�尔也去佛教论�，有时也去一些�通佛教书�的书店看看，大致了解了一些情况，对于民间佛教信仰，令人最担忧的是：缺少正�，太迷信�
  看上去信佛的人很多，但正信的太少，迷信�是相当地盛行：执相的多，无�的少；求佛的人多，修行的少。。。。。。�担心如此下去，佛教会��迷信的代��，所以�得�在网上大声呼�：�倡正信，�对迷信�
  
  很多网站都在宣传�通一些如《玉历�钞》�《太上感应篇》�《三世因果�》这些内容，这都是�如法的。
  居士拿出自己的钱��书结缘，建立网站，�扬佛法，�心很好，但宣传的内容�好好的考虑一下。
  《玉历�钞》《太上感应篇》都�是佛法。有人说，这些书虽然�是佛法，但也�人行善，也讲因果，有什么�好？是的，它们是�人行善，但他们的善�标准有待商榷。它们也�倡因果，但它们所�倡的因果和正信佛法有�根本的���
  
  佛法所说的因果是科学ã€�朴素的é�“ç�†ï¼Œå¼ºè°ƒè‡ªä½œè‡ªå�—，一个人得到的ç§�ç§�或好或å��的果报，是因为他的念头，语言，行为，造了或善或æ�¶çš„“业”，并é�žä»€ä¹ˆé¬¼ç¥žçš„评判和惩罚。佛教虽然承认有鬼神的存在，但鬼神也å�—业力的支é…�。而佛法所说的“业”，æ„�为“造作”，或å�¯è§£é‡Šä¸ºä¸€ç§�
  “è¿�动”，一ç§�力é‡�，一个人由于对自我和外界事物的执å�–，而产生了ç§�ç§�è´ªã€�å—”ã€�痴的念头，造作了ç§�ç§�的语言和行为，而æ¯�一个æ„�念，语言，行为都会产生一ç§�力é‡�，这ç§�力é‡�ä¸�会消失，é�‡åˆ°ç¼˜è€Œæˆ�熟。
  
  佛法所说的因果，既包å�«äº†ä¸–间哲学所说的因果，“如å�ƒé¥­æ˜¯å› ï¼Œé¥±äº†æ˜¯æžœï¼Œé¥±äº†æ˜¯å› ï¼Œå¤§å°�便是果。”也包å�«çœ‹æ™®é€šäººçœ‹ä¸�è§�的三世因果。有情众生æµ�转生死的å‰�å› å�Žæžœåœ¨ä½›æ³•çš„å��二因缘里有é€�彻的分æž�。
  
  太虚大师曾�指出，世俗人通常对因果存有两��正确的认识：一�是无因无果的断�论；一�是神�设教的因果观：�人�了善，神就�佑；�了�，神就惩罚.(详�〈太虚大师全书〉第二编〈三世因果〉）。
  而〈玉历�钞〉〈太上感应篇〉是典型的神�设教的书�，它们所
  说的因果就是太虚大师所批评的因果观。它们所宣扬的善�标准，是神�
  设教的善�标准，带有明显的迷信�想。
  有人说：“什么是迷信，什么ä¸�是迷信，你说得清å�—？å®�å�¯ä¿¡å…¶æœ‰ï¼Œä¸�å�¯ä¿¡å…¶æ— ã€‚”是的，迷信与ä¸�迷信之间没有ç»�对的界é™�，但有一个大致的标准。正信的佛教徒应以佛所说为标准，用佛è�©è�¨æ‰€è¯´çš„ç»�论æ�¥è¡¡é‡�。所以在佛陀的八正é�“里，第一就强调的是正è§�，其次是正æ€�维。
  
  下�是对这些书的简�分�：
  〈〈玉历å®�钞〉〉是以é�“教信仰为主的一本神é�“设教的书。在《玉历å®�钞》里编造了一个孟婆汤的传说，用æ�¥è§£é‡Š“人为什么ä¸�能记忆å‰�生”，å�Œæ—¶å�ˆè™šæž„了一个孟婆这样的人物，说孟婆是汉代人，但是请想一想，孟婆之å‰�è°�æ�¥å®Œæˆ�这一任务？事实上佛教对这些早有客观
  的解释，人死的时候，四大分离，生死间�过深度的�迷，表层�识早已消散，惟有阿赖耶识还在，中阴身在业力的推动下投生到相应的境界里。�新投胎�的人，由
  于�世的惑，无法回忆起�世，因为一般人的�识无法深入到阿赖耶识里，�有少数深入禅定的人�以在定中看到�世的影象。还有�个别人，�生�想清净�纯，妄念较少，还留有�世的记忆。这�人一般出现在山区农�。
  根�佛教�典，犯有较严�罪�的人�会感得地狱之果报，而有些轻一点的罪�，虽然也会�到相应的果报，但还�至于下地狱，而在玉历�钞里，很多
  看上并�严�的过失，都�下地狱而且����惨烈的刑法。
  让人��怀疑：阎罗王怎么连轻�都把���了？
  
  
  还有一些，看�没有什么罪过的，居然也�下地狱。
  如“妇人生产未超过二å��天，就接近井ã€�ç�¶ã€�洗涤衣æœ�，将血污之衣ã€�晾在高处，并污秽到了神明”。此罪庆归其妇一家之长的有三分；妇人则有七分之罪。
  
  如“衣裙上绣龙凤åƒ�，衣æœ�器皿上雕刻绘画太æž�图ã€�日月ã€�北斗星ã€�寿星ã€�王æ¯�ã€�å’Œå�ˆäºŒä»™ï¼Œå¯¹ç�€åŒ—方天空便溺哭泣,éš�便呼å�«ç¥žä½›çš„å��å�·ã€‚。。。。。" 佛教ä¸�但ä¸�ç¦�止呼å�«ä½›è�©è�¨çš„å��å�·ï¼Œå��而æ��倡在行ä½�å��å�§ä¸­å¿µä½›ï¼Œå¤§å£°å¿µä½›ï¼Œæ—¥å¸¸ç”Ÿæ´»ä¸­ä¸€å�¥ä½›å�·è„±å�£è€Œå‡ºæ˜¯å¾ˆå¹³å¸¸çš„事情。
  
  
  仔细查看，破绽百出，这里�一一列举了
  
  <太上感应篇》是é�“æ•™å�‡æ‰˜è€�å­�之å��作的。观其内容无é�žè¿˜æ˜¯å¼ºè°ƒï¼š“天地有å�¸è¿‡ä¹‹ç¥žï¼Œä¾�人所犯轻é‡�，以夺人算。算å‡�则贫耗，多逢忧患；人皆æ�¶ä¹‹ï¼Œåˆ‘祸éš�之，å�‰åº†é�¿ä¹‹ï¼Œæ�¶æ˜Ÿç�¾ä¹‹ï¼›ç®—尽则死。
  　　å�ˆæœ‰ä¸‰å�°åŒ—斗神å�›ï¼Œåœ¨äººå¤´ä¸Šï¼Œå½•äººç½ªæ�¶ï¼Œå¤ºå…¶çºªç®—。å�ˆæœ‰ä¸‰å°¸ç¥žï¼Œåœ¨äººèº«ä¸­ï¼Œæ¯�到庚申日，辄上诣天曹，言人罪过。月晦之日，ç�¶ç¥žäº¦ç„¶ã€‚凡人有过，大则夺纪，å°�则夺算。”
  功德和过失�岂是一个加�法能算清的？
  ç»�末一段，迷信色彩就更浓了。“晦腊歌舞，朔旦å�·æ€’；对北涕唾å�Šæººï¼Œå¯¹ç�¶å�Ÿå’�å�Šå“­ï¼›å�ˆä»¥ç�¶ç�«çƒ§é¦™ï¼Œç§½æŸ´ä½œé£Ÿï¼›å¤œèµ·è£¸éœ²ï¼Œå…«èŠ‚行刑；唾æµ�星，指虹霓；辄指三光（指日ã€�月ã€�星之光），久视日月......如是等罪å�¸å‘½éš�其轻é‡�，夺其纪算。算尽则死；死有余责，乃殃å�Šå­�å­™” æµ�星，彩虹，日月等等，都是æž�普通的自然现象，编造者å�´æŠŠè¿™äº›çœ‹æˆ�神秘的东西，手指一下都ä¸�å�¯ä»¥ï¼Œçœ‹ä¹…了也ä¸�行，都有罪过。这是一ç§�的愚昧的庶物崇拜，也说明了一些å�¤ä»£äººè‡ªç„¶ç§‘学方é�¢çŸ¥è¯†çš„è´«ä¹�。
  
  至于所谓的《佛说三世因果ç»�》，根本ä¸�是佛说的，本æ�¥å�«ä¸‰ä¸–因果文，查汉文〈大è—�ç»�〉，里é�¢æ²¡æœ‰å®ƒã€‚一般我们看到的本å­�，å‰�é�¢æ²¡æœ‰“如是我闻”一类的è¯�，也没有译者，没有翻译的年代。但有的版本上ä¸�知é�“è°�也给它å‰�é�¢åŠ äº†ä¸€æ®µ“如是我闻”之类的è¯�，堂而皇之的冒充起佛ç»�æ�¥ï¼Œä½†
  �冒者的水平毕竟有�，还是看上去��。高僧翻译出�的佛�文笔�会差到这�程度。从三世因果文的行文�看是民间浅白的歌谣形�，（编造者的文化水平应该�高，�书的年代估计�会早于民国），从它宣扬的内容�看是宣扬因果报应，但它的所讲的具体的因果对应关系是�是就是那样呢？
  
  这些民间伪造善书，还有一个共å�Œç‰¹ç‚¹æ˜¯ä¹¦æœ«ä¸�å…�都è¦�加上一段å�°èµ å®£ä¼ è¿™äº›ä¹¦ä¼šå¾—到如何如何的ç¦�报，ä¸�ä¿¡å�ˆå¦‚何如何地é�­åˆ°æ�¶æŠ¥çš„è¯�。如《玉历å®�钞》å�·æœ«è¯´“å�°åˆ·æµ�通玉历得ç¦�报，ä¸�信玉历è¦�é�­æ�¶æŠ¥ï¼Œæ”¶è—�玉历必有奇祸。”是伪造者惯用的伎俩，这主è¦�还是怕别人ä¸�信。
  目的很明确，就是�让人大�的宣传�通这些书。有些疑神疑鬼的人出于
  “å®�å�¯ä¿¡å…¶æœ‰ï¼Œä¸�å�¯ä¿¡å…¶æ— ”的想法，害怕真的é�­åˆ°ä»€ä¹ˆæŠ¥åº”，ä¸�æ•¢ä¸�信，于是花钱大é‡�å�°åˆ·æµ�通，这也是这些书能够æµ�传这麽广泛的原因。还有些人虽然觉察出他的欺骗性，但出于一ç§�“å��正是åŠ�善，也许能改善社会风气”的心æ€�，也ä¸�去戳穿它。
  这些书，真能起到改善社会风气的作用�？客观地说，民国以�应该是能起到一些作用的，而到了今天，它的作用就值得怀疑了。我们�以看到，那些胡��为的人一般是�信这些的，信这些的大多数是一些善良�实的人。
  
  
  有人说，��是�人行善，真的�的�有什么关系？这�说法�完全对。
  他们�善的功德是值得肯定的，但作为佛门弟�应该对它们所带�的负�影�有所觉察。正信的佛�应该清醒的认识到，宣扬这些民间伪善书的��过失：
  首先，我们�认识到把这些伪造善书和正信佛教的典�放在一起�通宣传会影�佛教的形象，造�一些人对佛法的误解。这就好比一个�家精���的画展，里边�然放了几幅技巧拙劣的画作，无疑�低了整个展览的��，干扰了观众的视觉，从而影�了人们对整个画展的�象。往往容易引起一些知识分�的�感，甚或造�谤法之因。
  第二，编造者虽然目的是�善，但由于其智慧�低，本身的�论水平有�，佛��分，所造的东西在�善的�时也带有一些低级幼稚的迷信�想。大乘佛教里唯有登地以上的��和精通五明的学者�有造论的资格。那些民间信仰者所编造的东西，能把人带上正确的�路�？
  第三，他们æ��倡的因果观和佛教的因果观是ä¸�å�Œçš„，很容易混淆一些人对佛法所说的因果的ç�†è§£ã€‚他们宣扬一些莫å��其妙的ç¦�戒如“ä¸�å�¯å¯¹åŒ—而涕
  ，手指æµ�星ã€�彩虹ã€�久视日月”等等，正类似佛陀所批评的ç¦�戒å�–è§�。
  
  第四，有些书（如《玉历å®�钞》）渲染鬼神气氛，夸大地狱的æ��怖，编造谎言，用”信我就得ç¦�，ä¸�ä¿¡å°±é�­æ®ƒ”æ��å�“善良的è€�百姓。
  
  第五，佛法强调“平常心å�³æ˜¯é�“”，而疑神疑鬼的想法ã€�神秘的心æ€�会给佛法的修行带æ�¥ç§�ç§�çš„éšœç¢�，一些ç�€ç›¸å…¥é­”的例å­�，都和这ç§�神秘的心æ€�有关。
  
  第六，有人说，这些是给一些�根人的应机之说。这�说法也是�对的。�管学生的接�能力强还是弱，�师都应该教给它纯正的教法。就好比一个天资�高的学生跟�师学英语，是�是因为这个学生�是太�明�师就�教给他纯正的英语而是教一些河��英语或�四��英语呢？佛说八万四�法门正是对应����的根基，难�还�够用�？
  民国期间，�光大师曾�教人看〈太上感应篇〉《文昌��阴骘文》等的书。那是因为神�设教的信仰当时在民间�为盛行，几乎家家户户如此，而��乱七八糟的会�门更是猖�，如一贯���善社�罗祖教�弥勒教�大乘教�圆顿教。。。。。。等等等等，�光大师�得以，教看�教的感应篇等书，
  因其虽然�是佛法，但总比��邪魔外�好得多，那也是大师为应当时之机�得以的方便之举。而当今的时代，科学观念深入人心，多数人对迷信色彩较浓的东西敬而远之，因此�扬佛法似应以�性�科学�正信为主。
  
  第七，弥勒è�©è�¨æ‰€åˆ¶å®šçš„ç‘œç�ˆè�©è�¨æˆ’四根本é‡�戒中的第四戒就是说åƒ�似法戒：“若诸è�©è�¨è°¤è�©è�¨è—�。爱ä¹�宣说开示建立åƒ�似正法。于åƒ�似法或自信解或éš�他转。是å��第四他胜处法。如是å��为è�©è�¨å››ç§�他胜处法。”
  所谓“åƒ�似正法”å�³ä¸�是佛法，或ä¾�附佛法的外é�“。“或自信解”就是自己建立一套，“éš�他转”是信å�—并弘扬他人的邪说。若è�©è�¨å¦‚是而行，就是犯下了根本的é‡�戒。太虚大师曾谆谆告诫学人：“此一æ�¡ä¸ºè�©è�¨æœ€ç´§è¦�之关头，学者其勿忽诸ï¼�”（这里的解释引自济群法师的〈瑜ç�ˆè�©è�¨æˆ’〉è¦�义。）
  
  第八，对于外�，佛教并�排斥，对于��有传统的外�和高水平的外�，佛教也欢喜赞�。
  但为了维护佛法的纯正性，佛教徒�应�人宣说外�法。对于外�
  典�佛教徒也�是��以看，但�看哪一部分，如�家�庄的学说，值得一看，而如果�把外�糟粕的部分拿�学习，还�人推�，这是�妥当？
  
  
  除了本文所讨论三本书外。很多民间信仰的伪造善书和一些早已被�定的伪�还相当�行。这些现象�映了我国当�的民间佛教信仰状况。相当一部分佛教徒对佛教的基本教�的认识模糊，对佛法抱有相当严�的误解，仅有的是一�盲目的宗教热情。
  
  
  �百姓对佛法�了解，情有�原。但令人�憾的是，很多颇有影�的佛教网站还在宣传推�这些书�，甚至一些很有�气的法师也在推�这些东西，实在令人觉得悲哀啊。
  
  　　　但是，迷信止于智者。有正�，有洞察力的佛��会任这�现象蔓延，广���心的佛�有责任维护佛法的纯正性，有责任把正信的佛法宣传给广大信众。

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 03:50

  Weeshun ,  are you a Taiwanese ? 

  The person who showed me the written poem by the sand tray is a Singaporean.  That was over 20 years ago.  I know that Yi Guan Tao has some great changes in their belief system as compared to 20 years ago.

  What you have experienced and what i know through a third party may be different in different times.

  Yi Guan Tao absorbed many teachings from other faiths to use in their speeches. I am not surprised if they take Tai Shang Gan Ying Jing from Taoism.  Tai Shang Lao Ren is a Taoist Deity.

  Singapore is a multi-religion society, being a true blue Singaporean, i am used to be open minded and accept different beliefs systems as long as they don't bring harm to others.

  What i perceive Monk Jing Kong 's recent spreading is his acceptance and tolerance of others' teachings beside his own main core belief.  I don't see anything wrong in that.  

  Buddhist monks had travelled to India to bring back the sutras but translation may have lost the gems in some of the teachings.  And if the monks add in their own perception , the true meanings are gone forever.  For eg, chakra and kundalini.

   I disagree with you that the propagation of Buddhism lineage of sutras is purely enough. This is a very narrow and closed mindset.

   

  Thank you and Namaste

   

   

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 04:11

  Yes, I may have to agree that in the past Yikwantao does have that but something for sure is that now in singapore, they do not have that. This is why i asked you to verify for yourself before pointing your fingers with a knowledge from 20 years ago.
  
  Yi kwan Tao takes in not only Tai Shang Lao Jun, the take in almost all Buddha, Jesus , Mohd, Confucious.
  
  I have always respected the fact that the society is a multi religious one, as Buddhists, we do not see another religion as evil, satanic or wrong. However, while living in a multi religious society it does not mean Buddhism should be Multi-faith, the purity of the Dharma should at kept at all times. Accepting them and propgating them is two different issues.
  
  From your assumption, the "gem" lost in the process of translating Buddhist sutras obtained from india and these "lost gems" are found in Taoism and Confucianism or even bible and quran? How do you know that? Did Hsuen Tsang or Kumarajiva say that? or it was pure assumption from your side?
  
  Call me narrow minded for only printing Buddhist sutras for free distribution.
  Call me narrow minded for only honouring the Buddha and not Laozi or Jesus on my altar.
  
  This is why I started this topic, cos Yi kwan Tao accepts all Gods and all religions, they are not narrow minded.
  
  I am still awaiting for you to tell me why the wu cheng gong fa building its foundational aspect on the refuge of triple gems has been accused by you as being a falungong thingy? And also you said that the "Pen and Tray" thing cannot be trusted but tai Shang Gan Yin Pian as propagated by Ven CK is a product of this pen and tray, can it be trusted now?
  
  p/s: when you see a Buddhist temple honouring only the Buddha, call that temple a narrow minded temple. When you see a Venerable monk preaching only the Buddha's teaching and not other religion's scripture, call him a narrow minded monk. When you see a Buddhist college that only teaches Buddhism and not another religion, call it a narrow minded Buddhist college. It seems like quite a large number of "narrow minded" temples, buddhists, sanghas and buddhist colleges we have here.. just take a look.   Yi Kwan Tao most open minded! All embracing ~

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 04:26

  Weeshun, according to you, any temple with a buddha in it will be buddhism?

  What is buddhism? You have forgotten the essence of Buddhism.  It is to seek the truth of life. It is wisdom.  It is to see the universe as it is , beyond human's dimension and human's perception of this one dimensional sphere.

  Buddhism is not books. Wisdom should not be restricted to only what the Buddha teaches.  I am sure confucianism, Islam, Christanity , Taoism have their own aspect of wisdom and enlightenment.

  Why must you restrict your seeking of truth to only Buddhism?

  All these battles of words, does it really serve you any better in finding the truth of this universe?

  Can you see beyond words in books? Can you see your own gem in yourself instead of seeking outside.

  How does it improve your wisdom winning others' only in words and not even experiencing your own gem inside of you?

  Have you really seen what Sakyamuni Buddha has seen?

   

   

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 04:43

  My answer to you?
  
  《善生�净三归�》云：
  
  （一）�三归已，造作痴业，�外�法自在天语，以是因缘，失于三归。
  　　
  （二）若有造作���业，为��故，修于善事，如市场法（好比市场作买�，以求利为先），其心�能怜悯众生，如是之人�得三归。
  
  （三）若人信其（神）能救一切怖�，礼拜外�，是人则失三归�法。
  
  
  As i said, please continue to call me narrow minded for ONLY propagating and accepting the teachings of the Buddha.
  
  As Buddhists, we do not seek the truth, we follow the Truth well taught by the Buddha which is excellent in the beginning, in the middle and in the end.

  Please do not misunderstand me that I say that Islam, Christianity, Taoism and Confucianism has no wisdom and values in them. The problem now is since there are values in them, so we buddhists start to rever them, pray them, learn them and propagate them? Issn't this what Yi kwan Tao is doing? Yi Kwan Tao embraced all the above religions, accepts their truth and wisdom.
  
  First you said that the Buddhist translators has lost the gem in the process in translating the buddhist scriptures from sanskrit to chinese and then now you tell me the gem is in me, what are you talking about? The Gem parable appeared in the dharma lotus sutra which was a parallel to our Buddha nature and i cannot connect it to practising and promoting  another non buddhist religion as a Buddhist practise.
  
  I continue to ask again, why is wu cheng gong fa being accused by you as a Falungong thingy? You said the pen and tray thing canot be trusted, but tai shang gan yin pian as promoted by Ven Ck is a product of this pen tray thingy, can it be trusted? You need to be responsible for your words, do not argue for the sake of arguing.
  
  A temple with a Buddha only is a Buddhist temple ~(many buddhist temples used to have taoist deities along with the Buddha and after reforming, these deities are removed. Don't believe? Check out Poh Ming Tse, Fa Hua Si and many others) arent they all so narrow minded as to remove these taoist deities?
  A temple or venerable who preaches only Buddhism is a Buddhist temple.
  
  I have not seen what the Buddha seen, but as long i follow what the Buddha taught , I will see what the Buddha sees. To see what the Buddha sees is to follow what the Buddha taught not what Lao Jun or Jesus taught. The Buddhs said: He who sees the Dharma sees me and he who sees me sees the Dharma.
  
  Namo Amituofo

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 04:49

  The chakra system in your body is your gem.  The kundalini arising through your chakra is your buddha nature. That's what Sakyamuni Buddha first remark about when he reached enlightenment (merging with the universe) .

  " how strange, everyone has buddha nature, just that they don't realise it ".

  First phrase of enlightenment.

   

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 04:50

  You did not answer my questions. =)

• Wiser

  14 Jan 11, 04:52

  You didn't see my answers

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 04:57

  wiser, let me give you the whole phrase incase you cut it to fit your argument.
  
  大方广佛�严��第五�一 如�出现�第三�七之二
  
  原文：『奇哉�奇哉�此诸众生云何具有如�智慧，愚痴迷惑，�知��？我
  
  当教以圣�，令其永离妄想执著，自于身中得�如�广大智慧与佛无异。�
  
  All sentient beings have Buddha nature but due to ignorance and aversions, one is unable to know and see it. I (Buddha) will teach the Holy Dharma, enabling one to be released from ignorance to know oneself as the body of the tathagatha's profound wisdom is no different from the Buddha
  
  
  What did the Buddha say? I teach the Holy Dharma which will enable people to realise ...... Did the Buddha say Laozi? Jesus? Confucius? Mohd?
  
  
  Namo Amituofo

• WeeShun

  14 Jan 11, 04:58

  I continue to ask again, why is wu cheng gong fa being accused by you as a Falungong thingy? You said the pen and tray thing canot be trusted, but tai shang gan yin pian as promoted by Ven Ck is a product of this pen tray thingy, can it be trusted? You need to be responsible for your words, do not argue for the sake of arguing

• Dawnfirstlight

  14 Jan 11, 08:56

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  That's right. Yi Kuan Dao only teaches people to do good. It does not lead people to liberation. Therefore it is not Buddhism.

  Furthermore, it mislead people into thinking that what it teaches is the same as Buddhism, and has cult-like behaviors (like secret initiation and swearing to get lightning strike etc). This is why Yi Kuan Dao is listed in this forum as a cult and not some other non-Buddhist religions and teachings.

  Yes, you are correct. Yi Kuan Dao is definitely not Buddhism. Their behaviour has cult-like behaviours :

  1) they believe upon "conversion" to yi-kuan dao, their names will automatically remove from hell. In Buddhism, we don't believe in this, our behaviour matters.

  2) the followers were made to swear that if they leve the sect, they will be strike by lightning (五雷轰顶). It is a kind of threat. Buddhism does not threaten its followers.

  3) It does not lead people to liberate.

  4) they are very secretive, did not open their door to the public except those who have converted and those who are going to be converted. Buddhism opens its door to everyone, Buddhism believes in 普渡众生。

  5) they pray to è€�æ¯�娘, their final destination is go back to  è€�æ¯�娘.  Buddha did not tell us that è€�æ¯�娘 is a Buddha. There is no mention of è€�æ¯�娘 in any Buddhist sutra.

   

• Amitayus48

  14 Jan 11, 09:02

  Originally posted by Fcukpap:

  the change of position or the position of change......

  乾�大挪移

  hahaha!! 乾�大挪移 (应生佛 / 化生佛) is like fruit elaborated in the Flower Adornment Sutra but it require �阳真� before you really enjoy it. Suggest to visit Shaolin Temple

  

  

   

  ä¹�阳神功乃《ä¹�阳真ç»�》上的武功，出自金庸å°�说。练到最å�Žå¤§å…³ï¼Œå¿…须熬过全身燥热自焚之苦，或得å��师指点，打通全身所有几百个穴é�“，æ‰�真正练æˆ�“ä¹�阳神功”，å�¦åˆ™å�ªæ˜¯ç§¯å­˜ä¹�阳内力，施展内力ä¸�能淋漓尽致，战斗å�Žå®¹æ˜“泄气过度致死，例å­�如å�Œè§‰è¿œã€‚ 练æˆ�神功å�Žï¼Œå†…力自生速度奇快，无穷无尽，普通拳脚也能使出ç»�大攻击力；防御力无å�¯åŒ¹æ•Œï¼Œè‡ªåŠ¨æŠ¤ä½“功能å��弹外力攻击，æˆ�金刚ä¸�å��之躯；习者轻功身法胜过世 上所有轻功精妙高手；更是疗伤圣典，百毒ä¸�侵，专门克破所有寒性和阴性内力。ä¹�阳神功èž�会贯通武学至ç�†ï¼Œç»ƒæˆ�å�Žå¤©ä¸‹æ­¦å­¦é™„拾皆å�¯ç”¨ã€‚

  

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  14 Jan 11, 09:08

  Originally posted by WeeShun:

  Eternal, How do you assume that Yi Kwan Tao does not lead to liberation?
  
  And even if it does not lead to liberation, why cant we consider Yi kwan Tao as foundational gates of entry to Buddhism then ?

  Yi kwan tao does not open its door to the public, only to its members. Don't you see something is very wrong here which does not tally with what Buddha taught. No wonder, MCK is smart, he did not say use yi kwan tao as foundational gates of entry to Buddhism. He sees it but you don't.

• reborn76

  14 Jan 11, 10:21

  Hi Wee Shun

  Yi Kwan Dao is a good religion as it taught people to do good deeds through upholding moral duties.

  However, under the definition of Buddhism, it does not equate to a Buddhist. As it does not seek refuge in the 3 treasures namely; Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.When one pray to Kwan Yin, it does not imply he is a Buddhist. Prayer were answer out of compassion assistance of Bodhisattvas and our merits.

  Beside, the objective of people is to seek entry into heaven whereas Buddhist objective is seek enlightment and enter to nirvana. When one cease to be reborn into 6 path of existence. 

  Please refer to the below article for further reading.

  http://tw.group.knowledge.yahoo.com/huchingju-88/article/view?aid=5335

   

  佛教入門��嚴法師著

  附錄：日蓮正宗與一貫�也是佛教嗎？

  第二次世界大戰��之後，日本興起了富士山大石寺派的日蓮正宗，亦�創價學會，其所建立的政黨則�為公明黨。該宗以日蓮（西紀一二二二～一二八二）為教祖，�定�度釋迦牟尼佛的地�，說什麼釋迦是化佛，日蓮是本佛；釋迦佛已涅盤，乃是�去的佛，日蓮�是本來佛，�在化世，而且永久化世。其雖以高唱「�無妙法蓮�經�的經題為專修法門，�於共有二�八�的《法�經》���其中的第二「方便���第�六「如來壽���，�謂斷章�義；而��排斥佛教的其他經論�所有的�宗�派。故有日本學者將日蓮的宗教狂熱�其排斥異己的行為，比作基�教的耶穌，其信仰的方�，與其說是佛教，毋寧說是神�教的亞�。其乃是日本民�化了的神�教，如一定�說與佛教有關，也�將之歸類為「附佛法的外��，絕��是淵�自�度的正統佛教。

  自明�開始，中國盛行儒�釋��三教�和之說，到了民國之後，繼承白蓮教等秘密�社的餘系，而於民間�行儒�釋���耶�回的五教�一之說，他們截��家教義，兀自��，自圓其說，�之為一貫�。雖說主唱五教一貫，實則是以佛教的彌勒信仰�濟公傳說，�《金剛經》�《心經》�《六祖壇經》�《維摩詰經》等經，作為其掛羊頭賣狗肉的�論�據。說什麼釋迦牟尼佛已經退�，�今由無生��派彌勒掌天盤；�說什麼禪宗自六祖慧能之後，�傳俗人，所以一貫�亟力詆毀佛教的出家僧尼。他們�於尚未入其�門的人，���稱是佛教；將奉祀天燈為中心的天壇，也�稱為佛堂，然在入門接�點傳師點了玄關之後，�被告知他們信的是天�，其信徒之間則以�親互稱。他們的�想觀念和入教的儀�，�與佛教��，他們用佛經，��說佛法，而是採用他們得自鸞壇��媒的所謂�訓，來任�解釋佛經。佛教的��先賢無�主張以佛法解釋佛法，皆謂：「�經解經是佛說，離經一字�魔說。��見，一貫�雖唱五教一貫，實則是以佛教其��侵�，並圖�而代之的�象。他們自己沒有歷��沒有教主�沒有教義，�歪曲佛教的歷�，��佛教的教主，混淆佛教的教義。明明自稱天�，崇拜虛構的無生��明明上�，信仰�媒�乩童所宣講的神話，竟�利用佛堂�佛��佛��佛經作幌�。佛教以佛�法�僧三寶為信仰的中心，是公開的��性的；一貫�也借用三寶之�，�以抱��（雙掌�抱的手勢）�點玄關（眉心�點，與�相通）�五字真言（無太佛勒）的�訣為三寶，乃是神秘的�感性的。

  總之，日本的日蓮正宗，和中國的一貫�，既然�是正統的佛教，也永���能與佛教��，性質��，層次��，目的尤其��。

  Gassho

  Namu Myoho Renge Kyo