Originally posted by sinweiy:never mind, zero thought is kind to post from late Venerable Master Hsuan Hua in the link. don't say u dun know.
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/420304
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Life is full of uncertainty. No time to waste. Go straight to Buddhism, thats the safest path. Go study Confucianism, Daoism first, and then study Buddhism, that kind of talk, its for people who think they can afford to have detour. Disagree with Master Hsuan Hua.
:) ok.
Originally posted by WeeShun:wiser, let me give you the whole phrase incase you cut it to fit your argument.
大方广佛�严��第五�一如�出现�第三�七之二
原文：『奇哉ï¼�奇哉ï¼�æ¤è¯¸ä¼—生云何具有如æ�¥æ™ºæ…§ï¼Œæ„šç—´è¿·æƒ‘，ä¸�知ä¸�è§�？我
当教以圣é�“，令其永离妄想执著，自于身ä¸å¾—è§�如æ�¥å¹¿å¤§æ™ºæ…§ä¸Žä½›æ— 异。ã€�
All sentient beings have Buddha nature but due to ignorance and aversions, one is unable to know and see it. I (Buddha) will teach the Holy Dharma, enabling one to be released from ignorance to know oneself as the body of the tathagatha's profound wisdom is no different from the Buddha
What did the Buddha say? I teach the Holy Dharma which will enable people to realise ...... Did the Buddha say Laozi? Jesus? Confucius? Mohd?
Namo Amituofo
hahahah...weeshun you are truly what Buddha describe about. Ignorant . You are ignorant about other faith's wisdom. Is Buddha born in the same country and same era with Laozi, Jesus, Confucius ? So how you expect Buddha to mention their names? Are you using your brain to think correctly?
Please stop quoting Buddha's words to attack others. You do not understand the true wisdom of Buddha.
And one of the Holy dharma of Buddha is chakra and kundalini . You didn't realise it. So you are as ignorant as the others.
Om Mani Padme Hum
Originally posted by WeeShun:zenist69, you are right. Its already wrong to begin with non buddhist scriptures especially true in the Singapore context now.
The idea is not to bash Taoism, Confucianism or other religions. The simple message is START ON THE RIGHT PATH - the BUDDHA'S PATH.
Kudos again for your perserverence
Yeah. With so much disstraction in the modern Singapore already, to add another layer of distraction to the Dharma teaching, I think its doing disservice to Buddhism here. Agree, start on the right path - Buddha's Path.
U too, kudos for your perserverence and diligence.
Originally posted by Zenist69:Life is full of uncertainty. No time to waste. Go straight to Buddhism, thats the safest path. Go study Confucianism, Daoism first, and then study Buddhism, that kind of talk, its for people who think they can afford to have detour. Disagree with Master Hsuan Hua.
Life is full of uncertainty. No time to waste. Go straight to Christanity, thats the safest path. Go study Buddhism , first, and then study Christanity, that kind of talk, its for people who think they can afford to have detour. Agree with other faiths. ^^
Originally posted by WeeShun:I continue to ask again, why is wu cheng gong fa being accused by you as a Falungong thingy? You said the pen and tray thing canot be trusted, but tai shang gan yin pian as promoted by Ven Ck is a product of this pen tray thingy, can it be trusted? You need to be responsible for your words, do not argue for the sake of arguing
Why are you accusing me in the first place first? Why must you insist to accuse me of accusing wu cheng gong fa is a falungong thingy? I didn't say the pen and tray thing can't be trusted. Show me the sentence i say that. Why are you putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things i didn't say??
Originally posted by Wiser:
Why are you accusing me in the first place first? Why must you insist to accuse me of accusing wu cheng gong fa is a falungong thingy? I didn't say the pen and tray thing can't be trusted. Show me the sentence i say that. Why are you putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things i didn't say??
Peace............... Peace..................冷�。。。。。。。。冷�................ Please recite the following :
Amitayus pledge : May all have an enjoyable discussion so as to achieve "happiness, prosperity and progress for an idealistic nation building.
Originally posted by sinweiy:never mind, zero thought is kind to post from late Venerable Master Hsuan Hua in the link. don't say u dun know.
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/420304
/\
Here's my reply over there, to the thread starter:
"BuddhaDharma is all complete he said. But he put it as university level. Confucianism as primary school level, Daoism secondary school level.
Is BuddhaDharma that difficult to grasp? If it is so difficult to grasp, what are those elementary Buddhist textbook for? For who? There are elementary buddhist text books for children, intermediate buddhist textbooks for young adult and so forth. Accoring to Ven Hsuan Hua logic, all the buddhist textbooks are for advance level. For the adults."
"One question pops into my mind. Did he practice what he preaches here in this dharma talk? His zendo �场, did he ask his disciples to go study Confucianism first, and then Daoism second, then Buddhism? I dun think so. Correct me if I am wrong, the City of Ten Thousand Buddha, their study program for their young monks, did it start from Confucianism?"
Yi Kwan Tao is Taoism
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:Peace............... Peace..................冷�。。。。。。。。冷�................ Please recite the following :
Amitayus pledge : May all have an enjoyable discussion so as to achieve "happiness, prosperity and progress for an idealistic nation building.
hahahaha..........i rather recite the pledge of Singapore . Irregardless of race, language and religion. to pledge ourselves as one united nation.
There is this great space
in which this moment takes space
There is a great Silence
That is listening to the thoughts ~~~ Adyashanti
Sinwei said: 法云地, all and all they truely awakened to emptiness and self. the idea are countless to be recordered. 法云地 eat metal also can become food. è¬å¦‚金山活佛 is one example in real life.
I am not asking about eat metal as food, I am asking explictly about which sutra did the Buddha teach about reciting Namo Tai Shang Lao Jun to Pureland at the point attaining the 10th Bhumi of Fa Yun Di??
The quest for enlightenment is the quest for truth or reality. It’s not a quest for ideas about truth—that’s philosophy. And it’s not a quest to realize your fantasies about truth—that’s fundamentalized religion. It’s a quest for truth on truth’s terms. It’s a quest for the underlying principle of life, the unifying element of existence.
In your quiet moments of honesty, you know that you are not who you present yourself as, or who you pretend to be. Although you have changed identities many times, and changed them even in the course of a single day, none of them fit for long. They are all in a process of constant decay. One moment you’re a loving person, the next an angry one. One day you’re an indulgent, worldly person; the next a pure, spiritual lover of God. One moment you love your image of yourself, and the next you loathe it. On it goes, identified with one self-image after another, each as separate and false as the last.
http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=writings_inner&writingid=30
wiser said: hahahah...weeshun you are truly what Buddha describe about. Ignorant . You are ignorant about other faith's wisdom. Is Buddha born in the same country and same era with Laozi, Jesus, Confucius ? So how you expect Buddha to mention their names? Are you using your brain to think correctly?
Please stop quoting Buddha's words to attack others. You do not understand the true wisdom of Buddha.
And one of the Holy dharma of Buddha is chakra and kundalini . You didn't realise it. So you are as ignorant as the others.
wiser: The Buddha was borned in India, no qualms about that right ? Different era from Laozi, Confucious and Jesus. Since the Buddha has never taught about them, Who are we to add them on to Buddhism? Based on what?
Also I am sad to tell you again that I have never attempted to degrade Taoism or another other religion, as a Buddhist, we do not see the need to bash another religion for the propagation of Buddhism. I repeat again, as a Buddhist we should wholey rely on the Buddha's teachings alone as our basic foundational entry all the way to final liberation. Just like myself a purelander as well as what master CK said, NAMO AMIUTUOFO alone and not recite mixing names of other Buddhas and Bodhisattvas in, just wholeheartly recite Namo Amituofo is suffice.
Similarly, Buddhism alone is enough for Buddhists becos the Buddha's teachings encompass all. UNLESS you want to pass me a message is that the wisdom of Taoism, Confucianism, islam and Christianity are absent and cannot be found in Buddhism as that we Buddhist have to resort to using their texts to preach as foundation entry to our Buddhists.
Ignorant or not is not a matter of your judgement, its a process from darkness to brightness wisdom.
Namo Amituofo
The Buddha was borned in India, no qualms about that right ? Different era from Laozi, Confucious and Jesus. Since the Buddha has never taught about them, Who are we to add them on to Buddhism? Based on what?
To reply : Based on the merits of the texts. Based on how useful the texts are to build a good foundation of personality with moral teachings. This is a good foundation for any practise of any religion including Buddhism.
WeeShun, if you insist that everything should be the same in Buddha's era, i think you have to travel back in time to go and cultivate with Buddha himself. Even the sutras are not the same as back in Buddha 's times.
wiser said: hahahaha..........i rather recite the pledge of Singapore . Irregardless of race, language and religion. to pledge ourselves as one united nation.
Wiser, I too agree that Buddhist must learn to recongise and co-exist with followers of another religions, together regardless of race, langague or religon to make this mother earth into a better place for every sentient being to live in, this is the common humanism found in most religions I believe.
However while respecting, tolerating and recongising the existence abnd values of another religon, that does not equates to Buddhists start to spread and practise and propagate Non Buddhist texts to our own Buddhists.
Our famous Loyang Dua Pek Gong temple has the Malay Datuk Gong, Hindu Ganesh, Buddhist Earth Store Bodhisattva, Taoist deities all under the roof of one temple, is that what you consider Open mindedness and all embracing?
Namo Amituofo
Weeshun, that 's your opinions of reciting Amituofo name is good enough. It doesn't represent the others. Why are you forcing your opinions onto others?
There are many buddhists who prefer to recite the names of Medicine Buddha, Matreya Buddha, Goddes of Mercy and many other Bodhisattva Names.
You are really ignorant.
Om Mani Padme Hum
Originally posted by WeeShun:wiser said: hahahaha..........i rather recite the pledge of Singapore . Irregardless of race, language and religion. to pledge ourselves as one united nation.
Wiser, I too agree that Buddhist must learn to recongise and co-exist with followers of another religions, together regardless of race, langague or religon to make this mother earth into a better place for every sentient being to live in, this is the common humanism found in most religions I believe.
However while respecting, tolerating and recongising the existence abnd values of another religon, that does not equates to Buddhists start to spread and practise and propagate Non Buddhist texts to our own Buddhists.
Our famous Loyang Dua Pek Gong temple has the Malay Datuk Gong, Hindu Ganesh, Buddhist Earth Store Bodhisattva, Taoist deities all under the roof of one temple, is that what you consider Open mindedness and all embracing?
Namo Amituofo
Yes ! if you can accept it, you can be their believers. You can't go around bashing others to revert to your one way mind.
Even a Taoist Deity is better than you. He is a Deity while you are not.
wiser said: Why are you accusing me in the first place first? Why must you insist to accuse me of accusing wu cheng gong fa is a falungong thingy? I didn't say the pen and tray thing can't be trusted. Show me the sentence i say that. Why are you putting words in my mouth and accusing me of things i didn't say??
Wiser: I apologise for saying that you said the pen thing cannot be trusted, you said that the Pen and Tray thing is nothing similar to Buddhism.
I rephrase my question, Tai Shan Gan Yin Pian as promoted by Ven CK is a product of this pen and tray thingy which has nothing similar to Buddhism too.
As for Wu Cheng Gong Fa quoting the exact words you said "What is this Wu Cheng Gong Fa thing, it sounds more like a falungong thing"
However the crux of this 5 yana thing is asking you does even the most basic "Human Vechicle" discards the foundational of triple refuges and instead building the morals and standards on another religious text?
Thank you
Wiser said: Yes ! if you can accept it, you can be their believers. You can't go around bashing others to revert to your one way mind.
Even a Taoist Deity is better than you. He is a Deity while you are not.
Wiser: Errr... its their beliefs of cos, since Loyang Tua Pek Gong has never acclaimed itself to be associated with Buddhism. Just like what Dawnlight had said, as long Yi Kwan Tao does not associate with Buddhism, it does not matter but the problem is Yi Kwan Tao embraces and rojaks all and associates itself with Buddhism.
Also please point out since when did i bash another religon? I said we should always acknoledge the wisdom and values of other religions. Since when did i bash another religion ? I do not even see the need to bash another religion for the propagation of Buddhism, this is not Buddhism either!!
What we are now discussing is that Buddhists should not advocate non buddhist teachings as foundational entries to Buddhism because the Buddha has a full system from presch all the way to university.
Namo Amituofo
Smb66x said: Yi Kwan Tao is Taoism
Smb66x: Taoism does not acknowledge them as even a branch set of Taoism, their teachings rojak too many religions in it and is aganist the basic tenets of Taoism. However you might wish to contact Taoist Mission or Taoist Federation to clarify your doubts or contact Priest Weiyi www.weiyi.sg to understand for yourself why Yi Kwan Tao is neither Buddhism nor Taoism.
Wiser said: Even a Taoist deity is better than you.
Wiser: I agree fully, in terms of merits, these high taoist deities are much more better than me and any common humans. No disagreements on that, these deities have done loads of meritrious deeds to be loved and honoured by sentient beings while we still have to work and have worries about life.
However, I would like to point out that as a Buddhist, we also find it more fortunate to be borned as a human being in this world, because the Buddha taught that it is only in this human form and enviroment that is conducive that one practises and attains enlightement which is not shared by the kind of enviroment which deities and gods lives in.
This is perfectly the reason why as Buddhists, esp when we are in this human form, we should treasure, practise, learn and propagate the Buddha's teachings to all corners of the world.
Namo Amituofo
Ignorant or not, I bow to the Buddha nature within you. Nobody is uncapable of attaining Enlightenment if they practise the Buddha's way, soley the Buddha's way is suffice.
Amitabha Buddha vowed to recieve anyone who singlely and wholeheartedly calls and meditates upon his name. Amitabha's name alone is suffice for my Pureland destination.
Namo Amituofo
wiser reply : Based on the merits of the texts. Based on how useful the texts are to build a good foundation of personality with moral teachings. This is a good foundation for any practise of any religion including Buddhism.
WeeShun, if you insist that everything should be the same in Buddha's era, i think you have to travel back in time to go and cultivate with Buddha himself. Even the sutras are not the same as back in Buddha 's times.
Wiser: Are you implying that any religous texts as long with merits of doing good should be added into the foundational entry for Buddhism? I questioned you many times, does the Buddha has no teachings regarding the foundtional entry to Buddhism as that we have to resort to using non buddhist texts to be built as a Buddhist entry? This is why i quoted you the Wu Cheng Gong Fa, this is the MOST foundational entry to Buddhism and to further, the standard of Karma and reward system as recorded in Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian is not in accord with the Buddha's teaching, the Buddha had already taught the Dharma and paved the way for us, all we need to do is to honestly and sincerely follow the Buddha's path and not try to seek more paths outside Buddhism.
We do not need to go back to India, all we need to do is to follow what the Buddha has left for us not what Laozi, Confucious, Jesus or Mohd has left. Just as I quoted you "He who sees the dharma sees me and he who sees me sees the dharma" Thus said 3.91, Buddhism is nothing "cheem" all you need to do now is just clearly follow the teachings the Buddha had left for us and we will be able to see him just as we see ourseleves when we practise his teachings.
Namo Amituofo
Wiser said: Weeshun, that 's your opinions of reciting Amituofo name is good enough. It doesn't represent the others. Why are you forcing your opinions onto others?
There are many buddhists who prefer to recite the names of Medicine Buddha, Matreya Buddha, Goddes of Mercy and many other Bodhisattva Names.
You are really ignorant.
Wiser: Yes, according to the Pureland Sutras and the Vow that Amitabha Buddha made, soley calling and meditation upon the name of Namo Amituofo is enough to be reborned in Pureland. This is not my personal opinon, it is taught in the Pureland Sutras as well as all Pureland Masters.
I have to also agree that there are many Buddhists who might have more karmic affinity with other Buddhas and Bodhisatvas thus reciting and meditating upon their names, its perfectly fine and healthy to do that, Nothing wrong at all. If they have a special karmic affinity with so and so Buddha and Bodhisattva, by all means recite their names and practise their Dharma door, this is still under the umbrella shield of the Buddha's teachings. I respect other dharma methods which the Buddha taught even when I find Pureland Buddhism the most suitable for me. This is also the reason why as I Pureland Buddhist, I print not only Pureland Sutras for free distribution, I print Hua Yen Sutras, Suragama Sutras, Prajna Sutras etc as well. As long they are teachings of our Buddha Sakyamuni, we should all accept and propagate it and not teachings not taught by the Buddha.
p/s: Guan Yin Pusa or Avalokitesvra Bodhisattva should not be called a Goddess, incase readers gets confused.