Dun follow the schizo master

• Weychin

  17 Jan 11, 01:00

  Go read your bible "You reap what you sow", Job 4:8 

  Are you truly penitent? Are you humble ?

  Is hoping that you are to be a better person too much to ask?

• 18th Vow

  17 Jan 11, 01:34

  It's all in the mind. Mind is so powerful than anything else. Amituofo
• Dawnfirstlight

  17 Jan 11, 10:02

  Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:

  
  Born with sinful nature a tendency to do bad things. I inherited it from my parents/ancestors.

  U gt go child care centre c childre snatch toys fight, so young the tendency already surfacing.

   

  
  

  If you continue to believe that you are a born sinner, you will tend to commit more sins and think that it is ok to commit sins.

  Children tend to snatch for toys but if their behaviour is being guided and they are being taught the right values, it can be corrected. This shows that wrong behaviours can be corrected because we are not born sinners. All we need is a good teacher to guide us along and bring out our Buddha nature which is our true nature.

• Pure Emptiness

  17 Jan 11, 10:56

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  Go read your bible "You reap what you sow", Job 4:8 

  Are you truly penitent? Are you humble ?

  Is hoping that you are to be a better person too much to ask?

  
  Yes, I believe in retribution that God gives. God can punish us. Did seen bad christians being punished before.

  Humble, yes. We should initiated God's humbleness. I am trying to be humble just like Jesus.

  Jesus being God became man and born in a stable. We should be humble like him. He even wash people's feet.

   

• Pure Emptiness

  17 Jan 11, 11:03

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  If you continue to believe that you are a born sinner, you will tend to commit more sins and think that it is ok to commit sins.

  Children tend to snatch for toys but if their behaviour is being guided and they are being taught the right values, it can be corrected. This shows that wrong behaviours can be corrected because we are not born sinners. All we need is a good teacher to guide us along and bring out our Buddha nature which is our true nature.

   

  We repent to God and ask God for forgiveness when we erred/sinned.

  I did not commit more sins just by believing in sinful nature. I merely accepted and acknowledged the fact that I do sinned before and I am a sinner.

  I consider myself to be a ten commandment obeying christian. I do not denny breaking the ten commandments but I try to obey It as much as I can.

  But we are saved by grace/faith in jesus christ as saviour not works. But true believers will perform good works like obeying commandments and going sunday worship volunteer work.

  Faith without deeds are dead. Good works are important too.

  And pls dun reply my post as you can see religious debate is a viscious circle.

  I challenge u go share buddhism with ur malay frenz u see if u can persuade them there's no Creator. I think they will box u. Will end up arguing and debating.

  Plus religion is really a sensitive issue. 

  This is my last post here. Tahboleh tahan lah.

• Dawnfirstlight

  17 Jan 11, 11:09

  Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:

   

  We repent to God and ask God for forgiveness when we erred/sinned.

  I did not commit more sins just by believing in sinful nature. I merely accepted and acknowledged the fact that I do sinned before and I am a sinner.

  I consider myself to be a ten commandment obeying christian. I do not denny breaking the ten commandments but I try to obey It as much as I can.

  And pls dun reply my post as you can see religious debate is a viscious circle.

  I challenge u go share buddhism with ur malay frenz u see if u can persuade them there's no Creator. I think they will box u.

  This is my last post here. Taboleh tahan lah.

  The reason why I corrected you that we are not born sinners because you posted the wrong views at Buddhist forum which will mislead others especially Buddhists thinking that we are born sinners which is not correct.

  If we are born sinners, why waste the effort to set 10 commandments to correct us and if we are born sinners, we can never be corrected which is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

• Pure Emptiness

  17 Jan 11, 11:18

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  The reason why I corrected you that we are not born sinners because you posted the wrong views at Buddhist forum which will mislead others especially Buddhists thinking that we are born sinners which is not correct.

  If we are born sinners, why waste the effort to set 10 commandments to correct us and if we are born sinners, we can never be corrected which is WRONG WRONG WRONG!

  
  Ok out of respect I wont post here anymore. I also dowan never ending heated arguement/debate online.

   

• Pure Emptiness

  17 Jan 11, 11:37

  I apologise for the damages caused by my posts. Pls forgive me.

  From now on I only post in other online christian forum.

• Zenist69

  17 Jan 11, 11:47

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  i also worry some buddhists and beginners(like our friend pure_emptiness, i think as our real life example) is put off by such dogmatism and went back to Christianity or some would rather convert to 三教 than be "buddhists". what's also the karma for putting people off?.

  It is not dogmatism. Its just wise advice:

  “对于一个åˆ�信佛教的人æ�¥è¯´ï¼Œç ”究异教的义ç�†æ˜¯æ²¡æœ‰å¿…è¦�的，所以佛教主张学佛有余，å�¯ä»¥ç”¨ä¸‰åˆ†ä¹‹ä¸€çš„时间去看外书，å�¦åˆ™ï¼Œè‡ªé¡¾ä¸�暇，那有闲工夫去研读异教的书ç±�呢？”     

                        --- 圣严法师

  If people are put off by such view, then maybe Buddhism is not for them.

• Zenist69

  17 Jan 11, 11:55

  Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:

  
  Ok out of respect I wont post here anymore. I also dowan never ending heated arguement/debate online.

   

  I heard it from some Dharma Master, one way to gauge whether one's practice is on the right path, is to review after certian time period, whether one's agony and trouble had increase or decrease. If agony and trouble increases over time, that means one is not on the right path.

  Instead of Buddhism, would Christianity brings your more happiness, less trouble and agony over time? Time will tell.

   

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  17 Jan 11, 18:04

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  I heard it from some Dharma Master, one way to gauge whether one's practice is on the right path, is to review after certian time period, whether one's agony and trouble had increase or decrease. If agony and trouble increases over time, that means one is not on the right path.

  Instead of Buddhism, would Christianity brings your more happiness, less trouble and agony over time? Time will tell.

   

   

  You are correct. I heard about it too but for Buddhist beginners, please do not expect immediate effect. It takes time to see the positive effect. Afterall, we have many negative karma to clear before we experience bliss in life. I believe I'm on the right path and will make sure I'm always on the right path.

• Wiser

  17 Jan 11, 18:11

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  It is not dogmatism. Its just wise advice:

  “对于一个åˆ�信佛教的人æ�¥è¯´ï¼Œç ”究异教的义ç�†æ˜¯æ²¡æœ‰å¿…è¦�的，所以佛教主张学佛有余，å�¯ä»¥ç”¨ä¸‰åˆ†ä¹‹ä¸€çš„时间去看外书，å�¦åˆ™ï¼Œè‡ªé¡¾ä¸�暇，那有闲工夫去研读异教的书ç±�呢？”     

                        --- 圣严法师

  If people are put off by such view, then maybe Buddhism is not for them.

  Correction, it should be 圣严法师 is not for them.  Not Buddhism.

• sinweiy

  17 Jan 11, 20:30

  i think born good or born "sinner", both can be interpreted/"twisted" correctly in Buddhism. if want to hear from 圣严法师, i give 圣严法师. i respect him too. his interpretion same as what i think too.

   

  §ä½›æ•™æ˜¯ä¸»å¼ äººæ€§æœ¬å–„论的å�—？

   

  这是中国儒家�想中的问题，孟�讲人性本善，��讲人性本�，扬雄主张人性是善�混�，公孙�主张人性无善无�。究竟那一个的主张较对？大致上，�人喜欢�在孟�的一边，因为孔孟�是儒家的正统�想。

   

  因此，也å�¯ä»¥è¯´ä½›æ•™æ˜¯ä¸»å¼ äººæ€§æœ¬å–„论的。佛说‘大地众生皆具如æ�¥æ™ºæ…§å¾·ç›¸’，一切众生皆有佛性。这是主张佛教性善论的根æ�®ã€‚

   

  事实上，佛教虽�说是性善论，也�说是性�论，佛教的本质，�是既�属于性善论，也�属于性�论。

   

  众生皆有佛性，是性善论；众生皆由于无始以�的无明覆障而致尚未�佛，这是性�论。因为，性善论者�以防�而还归于善，性�论者则�以去�而�其善；两者观点��，目的�是一样。所以，佛教�以左�逢�而适其所适。

  若从根本上说，儒家的性善论也好，性�论也好，他们都是仅仅讨论当下一生的本性问题，说性本善与性本�，是从哇哇堕地时算起的，今生以�的善�行为──业，他们没有能力追究，今生死�的善�行为，他们也无从�追究。孟���了�性价值，所以说性善，��著眼在物性的转�，所以说性�，其实，他们都�看到了一�而忽略了�一�。从这一点上说，佛教既�性善论，也�性�论。因为，佛教看众生，是从无始以�看起，一直看到最终的目的达�──�佛，从当下的一生根本�能论断善�；在众生�说，善的佛性与�的无明，根本就是难兄难弟，分割�开，有佛性的时候，就已有了无明，它们是一体的两�，在生死，是无明，出生死，是佛性。物性是从无明开出，�性是由佛性�芽。所以，说我们的本性是善，固然�对，是�，也是�对。若从当下的一生而言，善与�，�性与物性，乃是与生俱�，投于善则善，投于�则�。（注�）

   

  照这么说�，佛教是�于扬雄的善�混�论了？那也�是，佛教主张：无明烦�，是�以����而分分断除的，无明断尽了佛性也就圆�了，这就��断烦����，了生死入涅槃。在生死的凡夫�中，烦�是�，佛性是善；一旦�了��，入了涅槃，根本也没有善��言。善�问题，仅是世间法中的观念，出世法中，乃是无善无�的。善别于�，有善必有�，所以佛教的目的，既�讲�，也�讲善。其实善�问题，纵是世间法中，也是没有�对的，正�毒��以毒死人也�救活人，良��以救人也�能�人一样。因此，圣�的佛��，他们本身固然没有善��言，他们看众生也没有善�的区别，唯有如此，�能怨亲平等而�普度众生。善与�，�过是凡夫众生的自我执著而已。但这也��于公孙�的无善无�，因为在现实世间的凡夫�上，人性并�没有善�，出世之�，�没法加上善�的�目。

   

  正因为佛教的善�观念，是没有永�性的，是�彻底废除掉的，如果一定�给佛教加上一个关于人性的甚么论，那就�好勉强地��善�解脱论�。

  http://boruo.goodweb.cn/books/0014.htm

   

  Buddhanature is originally good.  while our beginless ignorance is the "original sin". :) but buddhism is about liberating from both good and bad karma å–„æ�¶è§£è„±è®º and return to the Original True Buddhanature.

  hence i mentioned, when one's non deluded, all gates can be turn into a through Buddhism gate if u know how. 门门也讲的通.

  /\

• 2009novice

  17 Jan 11, 23:20

  Originally posted by Pure Emptiness:

  
  I am over 21 , i am matured enough to make spiritual decision.

  I can even vote in the next GE if there's no walkover.

  Why tell me wad to do? Do u think u r a bigshot?

  Why do u tell wad comes around goes around to me? I dun believe in Karma.

  The good thing is my self esteem has greatly increased. My walking posture and decisiveness has greatly increased. Used to walk with heads down.

  The problem with keep on changing religion is self esteem n indecisiveness, when that is reduced, of cos I can make a religious decision.

  The root of the problem has been significantly reduced.

  I also pray to God to support me to lose some weight. I am making good progress with weight loss too.

  God is great he really reduced my urge for snacks and tibbits. I already lost some weight now.

  
  That's good.

  Hope that you can lead a good life under God's guidance.

   

• Dawnfirstlight

  18 Jan 11, 12:59

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  Correction, it should be 圣严法师 is not for them.  Not Buddhism.

  
  圣严法师 is definitely for me. I like his �诵:

  Busy with nothing, growing old.
  Within emptiness, weeping, laughing
  Intrinsically, there's no "i"
  Life and death, thus cast aside.
  by Master Sheng-Yan

  无事忙中�，空里有哭笑；本�没有我，生死皆�抛

  He was an enlightened monk!

• Weychin

  18 Jan 11, 13:58

  Originally posted by 18th Vow:

  It’s all in the mind. Mind is so powerful than anything else.

  Amituofo

  
  As long the mind directed to doing positive things, Om Mani Padme Hung
• 18th Vow

  18 Jan 11, 15:25

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  
  As long the mind directed to doing positive things, Om Mani Padme Hung

   

  Yes u r right man! Positive mind = Positive action = Positive environment and harmony

  Amituofo

• Dawnfirstlight

  18 Jan 11, 17:49

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  i think born good or born "sinner", both can be interpreted/"twisted" correctly in Buddhism. if want to hear from 圣严法师, i give 圣严法师. i respect him too. his interpretion same as what i think too.

   

  §ä½›æ•™æ˜¯ä¸»å¼ äººæ€§æœ¬å–„论的å�—？

   

  这是中国儒家�想中的问题，孟�讲人性本善，��讲人性本�，扬雄主张人性是善�混�，公孙�主张人性无善无�。究竟那一个的主张较对？大致上，�人喜欢�在孟�的一边，因为孔孟�是儒家的正统�想。

   

  因此，也å�¯ä»¥è¯´ä½›æ•™æ˜¯ä¸»å¼ äººæ€§æœ¬å–„论的。佛说‘大地众生皆具如æ�¥æ™ºæ…§å¾·ç›¸’，一切众生皆有佛性。这是主张佛教性善论的根æ�®ã€‚

   

  事实上，佛教虽�说是性善论，也�说是性�论，佛教的本质，�是既�属于性善论，也�属于性�论。

   

  众生皆有佛性，是性善论；众生皆由于无始以�的无明覆障而致尚未�佛，这是性�论。因为，性善论者�以防�而还归于善，性�论者则�以去�而�其善；两者观点��，目的�是一样。所以，佛教�以左�逢�而适其所适。

  若从根本上说，儒家的性善论也好，性�论也好，他们都是仅仅讨论当下一生的本性问题，说性本善与性本�，是从哇哇堕地时算起的，今生以�的善�行为──业，他们没有能力追究，今生死�的善�行为，他们也无从�追究。孟���了�性价值，所以说性善，��著眼在物性的转�，所以说性�，其实，他们都�看到了一�而忽略了�一�。从这一点上说，佛教既�性善论，也�性�论。因为，佛教看众生，是从无始以�看起，一直看到最终的目的达�──�佛，从当下的一生根本�能论断善�；在众生�说，善的佛性与�的无明，根本就是难兄难弟，分割�开，有佛性的时候，就已有了无明，它们是一体的两�，在生死，是无明，出生死，是佛性。物性是从无明开出，�性是由佛性�芽。所以，说我们的本性是善，固然�对，是�，也是�对。若从当下的一生而言，善与�，�性与物性，乃是与生俱�，投于善则善，投于�则�。（注�）

   

  照这么说�，佛教是�于扬雄的善�混�论了？那也�是，佛教主张：无明烦�，是�以����而分分断除的，无明断尽了佛性也就圆�了，这就��断烦����，了生死入涅槃。在生死的凡夫�中，烦�是�，佛性是善；一旦�了��，入了涅槃，根本也没有善��言。善�问题，仅是世间法中的观念，出世法中，乃是无善无�的。善别于�，有善必有�，所以佛教的目的，既�讲�，也�讲善。其实善�问题，纵是世间法中，也是没有�对的，正�毒��以毒死人也�救活人，良��以救人也�能�人一样。因此，圣�的佛��，他们本身固然没有善��言，他们看众生也没有善�的区别，唯有如此，�能怨亲平等而�普度众生。善与�，�过是凡夫众生的自我执著而已。但这也��于公孙�的无善无�，因为在现实世间的凡夫�上，人性并�没有善�，出世之�，�没法加上善�的�目。

   

  正因为佛教的善�观念，是没有永�性的，是�彻底废除掉的，如果一定�给佛教加上一个关于人性的甚么论，那就�好勉强地��善�解脱论�。

  http://boruo.goodweb.cn/books/0014.htm

   

  Buddhanature is originally good.  while our beginless ignorance is the "original sin". :) but buddhism is about liberating from both good and bad karma å–„æ�¶è§£è„±è®º and return to the Original True Buddhanature.

  hence i mentioned, when one's non deluded, all gates can be turn into a through Buddhism gate if u know how. 门门也讲的通.

  /\

  There are many real cases which prove our true nature is good. I remembered few years ago, there was a high profile case of shooting 独眼龙.

  He was a gangster and had shot a man and tried to kill the man's wife but the rifle got jammed. He converted to Buddhist in jail, repented and donated his organs after he was hunged for his crime. This just got to show 人之�，性本善. 人人都有��之心。

• sinweiy

  18 Jan 11, 20:07

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  There are many real cases which prove our true nature is good. I remembered few years ago, there was a high profile case of shooting 独眼龙.

  He was a gangster and had shot a man and tried to kill the man's wife but the rifle got jammed. He converted to Buddhist in jail, repented and donated his organs after he was hunged for his crime. This just got to show 人之�，性本善. 人人都有��之心。

  ya, no doubt, MCK did mentioned that we can see it in a new born baby. but i forget what the baby did.

  then again, without a previous karma, one won't be born into this world.

  /\

• Herzog_Zwei

  22 Jan 11, 09:55

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  Yeah, I believe you are living in hell. Only those who are living in hell will curse and swear. I have no comments if that is the path you choose but please don't cross your path to heaven. When you are in Rome, do what the Romans do. When you are in wisdom bliss, speak what we speak, don't speak hell language here.

   Give yourself a chance to experience heaven.

   

  If I curse and swear at nothing, can anyone be hurt by it? If nothing is hurt then what harm is done?

  I just pointed out the parrellels of following someone who is blind and expected to be lead home to be akin to chanting in vulgarities and hoping for enlightenment. If the blind can lead someone home, then chanting vulgarities can lead to enlightenment. Period.