关于初学佛从弟子规, 太上感应篇开始

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 16:59

  "真正�到佛法了，现在这个世间无论在哪个国家地区，�的东西多，仿冒的�我这次回�虽然没几天，在新闻里头常常看到�湾钞 票有伪造的，那你就晓得，冒充�仿冒的佛法很多，如何能辨别佛法的真伪，这个我们�能�留�。从��师教导我们，教�学怎么样辨别？这个�《大��》里� 有，这就��；如果这个�《大��》里头没有收进去，那就���，�能是伪造的��的，�是真的。�《大��》为标准。..."

  -----转载自“净空法师对四ä¾�法的开示” http://bbs.ifeng.com/viewthread.php?tid=4098970###

  Ironically, for a Dharma Master who advocate a book outside of Buddhism as entry and foundation to Buddhism to say those words...

   

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 17:29

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  Zenist69  can you post the article that MJK said that Di zi Gui is the entry and foundation of Buddhism?  Have you mis-interpreted what he meant to convey?

  Secondly, what do you think then should be the entry and foundation of Buddhism?

  Thirdly, as a buddhist, what else do you study/chant/read beside Amituofo  ?  Don't tell me that is all you know and then you conclude that you are a Buddhist.

   

   

   

  "學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上。所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了。" 

  from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0y_H613Mk

  我们如果想在这一生当中�就，就从儒家的《弟�规》，这是儒家的根；�家的《感应篇》，《太上感应篇》是�教的根；佛门里 �的《�善业��》，是佛教的根。这三个根�是扎稳了，就�一棵树一样，根深蒂固，哪有��就的�你学�教，你会开悟；你念佛，你决定往生。如果没有这三 个根，就�常困难。尤其是儒家，儒家是根本的根本，比什么都��。希望大家�能够轻视它，一定��实，�懂得《弟�规》里�所讲的�义。它的��深广无尽，看你自己学习的功夫，你有一分功夫，你能解一分义，一分的义趣；你有�分功夫，你能解�分义趣。

  from http://hi.baidu.com/%CE%DE%C1%BF%CA%D9%D7%AF%D1%CF%C7%E5%BE%BB/blog/item/3e42aaca3873871393457e06.html

  1. I am sure there are more talks from him on the internet, that Di Zi Gui is the entry and foundation to Buddhism.

  2. As for what do u think should be the entry and foundation to Buddhism? Lots of choices. 法��, 四�二章�，basic Buddhist textbooks, etc etc.

  3. Baby Blues.

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 17:40

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  "學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上。所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了。" 

  from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0y_H613Mk

  我们如果想在这一生当中�就，就从儒家的《弟�规》，这是儒家的根；�家的《感应篇》，《太上感应篇》是�教的根；佛门里�的《�善业��》，是佛教的根。这三个根�是扎稳了，就�一棵树一样，根深蒂固，哪有��就的�你学�教，你会开悟；你念佛，你决定往生。如果没有这三个根，就�常困难。尤其是儒家，儒家是根本的根本，比什么都��。希望大家�能够轻视它，一定��实，�懂得《弟�规》里�所讲的�义。它的��深广无尽，看你自己学习的功夫，你有一分功夫，你能解一分义，一分的义趣；你有�分功夫，你能解�分义趣。

  from http://hi.baidu.com/%CE%DE%C1%BF%CA%D9%D7%AF%D1%CF%C7%E5%BE%BB/blog/item/3e42aaca3873871393457e06.html

  1. I am sure there are more talks from him on the internet, that Di Zi Gui is the entry and foundation to Buddhism.

  2. As for what do u think should be the entry and foundation to Buddhism? Lots of choices. 法��, 四�二章�，basic Buddhist textbooks, etc etc.

  3. Baby Blues.

  Baby blues...hahahaha......dun be blue....MJK world is his world, you can't possibly destroy it. It's mission impossible...hahahaha..

  anyway...MJK emphaized that Buddha Dharma is one of the three roots of Buddhism in his speech up there. He is using more than one root to build a solid foundation for his followers.

  As long as he is not using "playboy" magazine, i don't see what's wrong with his school of thoughts.

  MJK is really trying to change the history of Buddhism by incorporating China's ancient wisdom together with Buddha Dharma. Buddhism will not only be wisdom from India.

   

   

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 17:59

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  Baby blues...hahahaha......dun be blue....MJK world is his world, you can't possibly destroy it. It's mission impossible...hahahaha..

  anyway...MJK emphaized that Buddha Dharma is one of the three roots of Buddhism in his speech up there. He is using more than one root to build a solid foundation for his followers.

  As long as he is not using "playboy" magazine, i don't see what's wrong with his school of thoughts.

  MJK is really trying to change the history of Buddhism by incorporating China's ancient wisdom together with Buddha Dharma. Buddhism will not only be wisdom from India.

   

   

  - I am not that ambitious and destructive. Just try and remind as much people as I could within my capability. I guess just a few people at best. But its worth trying.

  - There's a sequence and priority. FIRST, its Di Zi Gui. Followed by Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian. Then other books. There's a priority given to those two books, Di Zi Gui and Gan Yin Pian. And Di Zi Gui is his super duper important book, the first book for the newbie Buddhist to read. After Di Zi Gui, still not yet Buddhism book hor, after Di Zi Gui is Tai Shang Gan Yin Pian, a Daoist book.

  - Nothing wrong for people of other religion, or any non Buddhist. But its wrong from Buddhism point of view. 'cause Di Zi Gui is not a Buddhist book.

  - Call it MJK religion then. Dun call it Buddhism.

   

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 18:44

  from the paragraph you post of MJK speech, he didn't and he never mention the three books in that sequence. You interpret it as such.

  baby blues, i would suggest you see a doctor for your blue? Maybe you are having a mild depression and you read too much into a school of religion. Buddhism is a religion.

   You should save yourself first before you can take up any task to save others.

  Buddhism can't save you from depression. Only medicine can.

• sinweiy

  22 Jan 11, 19:00

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  Sorry, off topic a bit as I could not find the post which I asked you about absolute right and wrong. Let me asked again, will the person who found his Buddha nature  differentiate right and wrong in real life but will not 起无明. Or the person who is enlightened will not care who is right or wrong in real life and just stay out of right and wrong even though there is right and wrong.

   

  http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/420618

  i think they can pretend in real life, but what they care more is for the person to see beyond good and bad.

  /\

• pureland_zen

  22 Jan 11, 19:17

  佛也会��....

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 19:27

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  from the paragraph you post of MJK speech, he didn't and he never mention the three books in that sequence. You interpret it as such.

  baby blues, i would suggest you see a doctor for your blue? Maybe you are having a mild depression and you read too much into a school of religion. Buddhism is a religion.

   You should save yourself first before you can take up any task to save others.

  Buddhism can't save you from depression. Only medicine can.

  If u dun believe me, u could go ask an honest, senior MJK supporters. They will tell u its true.

  Mahayana Buddhism would go take up task no matter. No need to wait until dun noe when.

  I am not depressed. Baby blues is a comic strip.

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 19:39

  Originally posted by pureland_zen:

  佛也会��....

  å°±ä¾�法ä¸�ä¾�人ä¸�就没问题å�—? MJK ä¸�就说了å�—？“这个ç»�《大è—�ç»�》里é�¢ 有，这就å�¯é� ï¼›å¦‚果这个ç»�《大è—�ç»�》里头没有收进去，那就ä¸�å�¯é� ï¼Œå�¯èƒ½æ˜¯ä¼ªé€ çš„ã€�å�‡çš„，ä¸�是真的。ä¾�《大è—�ç»�》为标准。” 大è—�ç»�里é�¢æœ‰æ²¡æœ‰å¼Ÿå­�规？没有。è°�犯规了？MJK。就是这么简å�•ã€‚

• pureland_zen

  22 Jan 11, 19:56

  imo MCK said
  學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上.
  its mean tat we must learn to 「�養父�，奉事師長�，its the � we must learn .
  MCK said entry to buddhism we must 從《弟��》學起 but does 'entry to buddhism' realli mean to 'enter buddhism'?

  imo its the ��的基礎 we must have to learn buddhism.
  MCK said 所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了.imo he mean without å­�é�“的基礎,你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了.
  so wats wrong with tat MASTER ZENIST69

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 20:53

  Originally posted by pureland_zen:

  imo MCK said
  學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上.
  its mean tat we must learn to 「�養父�，奉事師長�，its the � we must learn .
  MCK said entry to buddhism we must 從《弟��》學起 but does 'entry to buddhism' realli mean to 'enter buddhism'?

  imo its the ��的基礎 we must have to learn buddhism.
  MCK said 所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了.imo he mean without å­�é�“的基礎,你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了.
  so wats wrong with tat MASTER ZENIST69

  MJK错在设定外书为佛教入门，佛教的基础。佛教本身就包�弟�规的一切�念，�需��外书�作佛教入门，佛教基础。

  ��，设定外书为佛教入门，基础，是�法佛教的规矩。

  他的身份是佛弟�，法师。如�讲�，奉事師長, 他就应�循佛陀教诲，佛教的规矩。

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 21:37

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTC81QEeTfE
  
  无�心 生�报 无��
  无�� 生�� 爱相连
  为何�视而�� 规矩定方圆
  悟性 悟觉 悟空 心甘情愿
  
  放下 颠倒梦想 放下云烟
  放下 空欲色 放下悬念

   

  for Zenist69 this phrase in this new movie theme is very suitable for you

   ä¸ºä½•å�›è§†è€Œä¸�è§� 规矩定方圆

• geis

  22 Jan 11, 22:22

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  This is actual practice. Its Mahayana Buddhism. If many people are mislead by some all charming person, shouldn't one voice out the concern, warning people about it? Its not a rumor. Di Zi Gui is not a Buddhist book.

  oh well

  just some last words in this topic

  in committing a deed 4 processes occur: 

  1) intention

  2) preparation

  3) enactment

  4) culmination of the deed

  each has its own karma to follow through.

  your intention may be good, but in this specific case it is based on a narrow perception of another's deed. and even if you are correct, the means by which you try to reach out this message is less than skillful.

  what if you have misunderstood? and have created unfounded doubts in other practitioners' minds? what others say is their karma, what we say is ours.

  anyway, mahayanist or theravada or pureland or whatever other faiths all are different approaches. there is only one Dharma.

  you mentioned ä¾�正法，ä¸�ä¾�方便法

  this is such a wonderful advice from your master. most advices' crucial point is in the unspoken, and here the unspoken is to tell us to practice hard properly :) 

  if one practices right, dizigui can also be an entrance to the dharma realizations. if one don't practice right, the best dharma sutra is but a copy of fashion magazine.

  anyway signing off this and related topic

  may all be well and happy :)

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 22:45

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTC81QEeTfE
  
  无�心 生�报 无��
  无�� 生�� 爱相连
  为何�视而�� 规矩定方圆
  悟性 悟觉 悟空 心甘情愿
  
  放下 颠倒梦想 放下云烟
  放下 空欲色 放下悬念

   

  for Zenist69 this phrase in this new movie theme is very suitable for you

   ä¸ºä½•å�›è§†è€Œä¸�è§� 规矩定方圆

   ä½›é™€æ‰€è®¾çš„规矩，是有他è€�人家的智慧，é�“ç�†çš„。ä¸�能éš�æ„�ç ´å��规矩。

  我已说了，佛教包�了弟�规的�念，没必�用外书�代替佛书。

  �说，世事无常。对佛教开始感兴趣的人们，佛弟�应抱�mai tu liao! （�迟疑）心�就介�入门佛书给他们，而�是给他们读些似佛教但�是真正佛教的外书，绕一圈�把他们引入佛教。里�有太多的�能性，和�数 (variables)。这是掉以轻心，�负责任的。与此，我觉得有必�对净空宗，�出批评。

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 22:52

  Originally posted by geis:

  oh well

  just some last words in this topic

  in committing a deed 4 processes occur: 

  1) intention

  2) preparation

  3) enactment

  4) culmination of the deed

  each has its own karma to follow through.

  your intention may be good, but in this specific case it is based on a narrow perception of another's deed. and even if you are correct, the means by which you try to reach out this message is less than skillful.

  what if you have misunderstood? and have created unfounded doubts in other practitioners' minds? what others say is their karma, what we say is ours.

  anyway, mahayanist or theravada or pureland or whatever other faiths all are different approaches. there is only one Dharma.

  you mentioned ä¾�正法，ä¸�ä¾�方便法

  this is such a wonderful advice from your master. most advices' crucial point is in the unspoken, and here the unspoken is to tell us to practice hard properly :) 

  if one practices right, dizigui can also be an entrance to the dharma realizations. if one don't practice right, the best dharma sutra is but a copy of fashion magazine.

  anyway signing off this and related topic

  may all be well and happy :)

  Let me cut to the chase and tell u people why I care so much about this. Its my reply to other forum member 'wiser', let me paste it here in bold fonts:

  佛陀所设的规矩，是有他�人家的智慧，��的。�能��破�规矩。

  我已说了，佛教包�了弟�规的�念，没必�用外书�代替佛书。

  �说，世事无常。对佛教开始感兴趣的人们，佛弟�应抱�mai tu liao! （�迟疑）心�就介�入门佛书给他们，而�是给他们读些似佛教但�是真正佛教的外书，绕一圈�把他们引入佛教。里�有太多的�能性，和�数 (variables)。这是掉以轻心，�负责任的。与此，我觉得有必�对净空宗，�出批评。

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 22:59

  why ? u scared many buddhists will become confucian scholars or taoists? Okay what.  If some people decide confucianism is their choice of faith for their life, who are you to say it's wrong ? 

  May be Confucian himself is already in Amituofo Buddhaland waiting for his followers to go there after living a life as taught by him.

  If more people started to spark greater interest in Daoism, that's fine too. All road lead to Rome, you never heard of meh?  We will have more accomplised Taoists out there who at least know the meanings of a Taoist Sutra.  Better than just hold 3 incense sticks and pray pray.

  MJK may have created new Taoists , new Confucian Scholars or a mixture of all three with his school of thoughts.  Make this a better world to live in , isn't it ? ^^

  We have more Saints .

   

• Zenist69

  22 Jan 11, 23:08

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  why ? u scared many buddhists will become confucian scholars or taoists? Okay what.  If some people decide confucianism is their choice of faith for their life, who are you to say it's wrong ? 

  May be Confucian himself is already in Amituofo Buddhaland waiting for his followers to go there after living a life as taught by him.

  If more people started to spark greater interest in Daoism, that's fine too. All road lead to Rome, you never heard of meh?  We will have more accomplised Taoists out there who at least know the meanings of a Taoist Sutra.  Better than just hold 3 incense sticks and pray pray.

  MJK may have created new Taoists , new Confucian Scholars or a mixture of all three with his school of thoughts.  Make this a better world to live in , isn't it ? ^^

  We have more Saints .

   

  Another possibility, they just lose interest altogether. Newbies, they wanna noe more about Buddhism, not about how they should brush teeth in the morning, and bow to old folks. And getting into daoism, they could just go suck into sexual techniques and wat not, and go into a totally different decadent path.

  From Buddhist point of view, the best way is to lead them to Buddhism. Forget about detour to Confucianism nor Daoism. Thats for closet Confucist and Daoist. They might like it to get them newbie Buddhist to go on detour. Not a good idea from Buddhist point of view.

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 23:15

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Another possibility, they just lose interest altogether. Newbies, they wanna noe more about Buddhism, not about how they should brush teeth in the morning, and bow to old folks. And getting into daoism, they could just go suck into sexual techniques and wat not, and go into a totally different decadent path.

  From Buddhist point of view, the best way is to lead them to Buddhism. Forget about detour to Confucianism nor Daoism. Thats for closet Confucist and Daoist. They might like it to get them newbie Buddhist to go on detour. Not a good idea from Buddhist point of view.

  Huh ?!! where did you get this idea that Daoism is teaching sexual techniques?

  You are slandering Daoism, you know.  Very bad.   Do you know there is now a Taoism College in Singapore that you need to study 3 years to get a diploma?  You think they teach sex techniques ?

  Do read more accurate information on Taoism before you anyhow say ha.  You are not talking Right Speech now.

  You are insulting your ancestors. Taoism originated from China. It's easy to study and get a diploma but you need the right talent and calibre to be a priest.

  It's harder to be a real Taoist priest than a dharma teaching reverend.

• Fcukpap

  22 Jan 11, 23:22

  Originally posted by Wiser:

  Huh ?!! where did you get this idea that Daoism is teaching sexual techniques?

  You are slandering Daoism, you know.  Very bad.   Do you know there is now a Taoism College in Singapore that you need to study 3 years to get a diploma?  You think they teach sex techiques ?

  Do read more accurate information on Taoism before you anyhow say ha.  You are not talking Right Speech now.

  err....as a matter of fact....taoism does refer to the harmony and union of sexes....the yin yang or so called joining energy or essences 房中术..

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 23:24

  Originally posted by Fcukpap:

  err....as a matter of fact....taoism does refer to the harmony and union of sexes....the yin yang or so called joining energy or essences 房中术..

  really ?!!  show me the article or the name of the book that say so.

   

  how shallow idea you have of Taoism.

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 23:29

  

  New Taoist College to offer diploma course Sun, Dec 14, 2008 The Straits Times

  Sun, Dec 14, 2008 The Straits Times

  By April Chong The first Taoist College in Singapore is set to open on Dec 21 and plans are under way for it to offer a diploma programme in Taoist studies. Such programmes are currently offered only by institutions in places such as China, Hong Kong and Taiwan

  newspaper article here

  http://news.asiaone.com/News/Education/Story/A1Story20081212-107366.html

   

• Fcukpap

  22 Jan 11, 23:31

  err...before the word shallow, perhaps you could also ask if yours are deep enough... ;p

  there are some sources....but i wont show you just becos u ask for it....

  taoism is not just a religious text of the past.......it is a way of life as well...

• Wiser

  22 Jan 11, 23:33

  Originally posted by Fcukpap:

  err...before the word shallow, perhaps you could also ask if yours are deep enough... ;p

  there are some sources....but i wont show you just becos u ask for it....

  taoism is not just a religious text of the past.......it is a way of life as well...

  
  definitely deeper than you.  You won't show or you CAN'T show ?

• Weychin

  23 Jan 11, 00:06

  Hello Zenist69, you are confusing relevance of Daoism to support your point. Confucianism and Daoism has always existed in China, Social conduct is has always been what it is, merely codified by Confucius. Chinese science, medicine, astrology, warfare, agriculture,alchemy among other things is always under Taoism . The principle of Dao, or the way, is to follow nature, or the way of nature. The symbol of yin/yang is the flow of nature forces. Continuity of the family line for the chinese is important, that why there also a sex manual call Su Nu Jing, or the plain girl classics, it initiates married couples to bedroom arts. This is the layman guide to family life as it forms the basis of sole nucleous unit, the family. That being said, there are also "Kong" meng or "emptiness" door as there are also harnessing of sexual energies in Daoist cultivation. If you have taken in vow in celibacy, obviously you would not engage in sexual activities, obviously. You are on thin ice, if you are insinuating that a Chinese monk is encouraging copulation. If you are a layman couple, you are going to have sex because this is what couple do! You have convoluted ideologies! Let me tell of the hippies who went to India, attracted by Tantric arts, some of them becomes devout Buddhist practitioners. If you are really into Buddhism, you should seek tonsure, close yourself from smoke and fire of the world. There is no pure Buddhist culture whatsoever, feel free to help me find a pure Buddhist culture. Buddhism has always been taught in relation to contemporary values and culture, even in the Buddha's time. There always the devotee, layman and monastic practitioners.
• Weychin

  23 Jan 11, 00:18

  Whatever the Buddha taught is always in the context of contemporary culture of his times, if you really want to embrace Buddhism, you take up the precepts, as time goes by, you take up more and more precepts, slowly detaching yourself . Also Buddhism is not practiced in just one lifetimes, sometimes you move forward sometimes you retreat, such is the life in samsara.