关于初学佛从弟子规, 太上感应篇开始

• Weychin

  20 Feb 11, 18:11

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Nobody say di zi gui is not a good book. And its not a matter whether di zi gui suits me or not. Its when lots of people from MJK camp, pushing di zi gui to newbie, this act whether its legit or not from buddhism point of view. If its not right, then stop doing it. Simple as that. Stop defending it and find excuse for it!

   

  
  Although I am not ecstatically happy now, I am comparatively less unhappy than before. This is what Buddhism means to me. What about you, going round and round. What about joining the people here in being contented and happy, bliss even!
• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 18:12

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  He's pushing di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian to newbies! Thats what he did. You wanna argue and said that act is pushing for morality? Okay, but he's pushing for di zi gui and tang shang gan yin pian to newbies! U cant deny the fact that he keep on pushing those two books for newbies to read! So stop your nonsense of keep on finding excuse for MJK!

  
  u then nonsense. his perspective is morality and cause and effect w/o the title.  

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 18:14

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  No, u people from MJK camp should stop the nonsense of pushing di zi gui to newbies. Di Zi Gui is not buddhism book. Stop the nonsense of pushing a wai dao books to newbies. U wanna talk about skillful means? Then look at the person whether he/ she into buddhism or not. If they are interested, procceed to recommend buddhism books to them. NOT pushing for di zi gui to newbies regardless! THATS NOT SKILLFUL MEANS!

  
  yes it's skillful mean, don't know how come u cannot see it's a skillful mean.

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 18:15

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  u then nonsense. his perspective is morality and cause and effect w/o the title.  

  But di zi gui is not a buddhism book! So why push di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian which are not buddhism book to people who are curious and interested in Buddhism? That doesn't make sense.

  Want newbie to learn morality? Then introduce them to buddhism book on that topic. Some buddhism text books, basic sutras on morality. Why go push for wai dao books? The nonsense is you MJK supporter on this issue.

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 18:19

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  yes it's skillful mean, don't know how come u cannot see it's a skillful mean.

  Pushing di zi gui to all newbies thats not skillful mean. Thats just plain silly. People already show interest in Buddhism, the logical move would be recommend them some buddhism books to read! Is this a difficult concept to grasp? Just go straight from point a to point b. Why introduce a detour?

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 18:25

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  
  Although I am not ecstatically happy now, I am comparatively less unhappy than before. This is what Buddhism means to me. What about you, going round and round. What about joining the people here in being contented and happy, bliss even!

  Am I happy talking to MJK supporters relentlessly finding excuses for MJK pushing for di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian? No. But I am doing it for a higher cause. Its the right thing to do. Less energy and time wasted for some future newbies here in our country.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 18:31

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  But di zi gui is not a buddhism book! So why push di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian which are not buddhism book to people who are curious and interested in Buddhism? That doesn't make sense.

  Want newbie to learn morality? Then introduce them to buddhism book on that topic. Some buddhism text books, basic sutras on morality. Why go push for wai dao books? The nonsense is you MJK supporter on this issue.

  as mentioned, it's too vast. since the two books already consolidated the more practical aspect of morality and stories of cause and effect, it's skillful to let newbies read less and understand more. simple as that. don't be attached to it's who's book. if so u can only read the sutra and not the commentries. even the sutras is recalled from Ananda.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 18:33

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Pushing di zi gui to all newbies thats not skillful mean. Thats just plain silly. People already show interest in Buddhism, the logical move would be recommend them some buddhism books to read! Is this a difficult concept to grasp? Just go straight from point a to point b. Why introduce a detour?

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  But di zi gui is not a buddhism book! So why push di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian which are not buddhism book to people who are curious and interested in Buddhism? That doesn't make sense.

  Want newbie to learn morality? Then introduce them to buddhism book on that topic. Some buddhism text books, basic sutras on morality. Why go push for wai dao books? The nonsense is you MJK supporter on this issue.

  as mentioned, it's too vast. since the two books already consolidated the more practical aspect of morality and stories of cause and effect, it's skillful to let newbies read less and understand more. simple as that. don't be attached to it's who's book. if so u can only read the sutra and not the commentries. even the sutras is recalled from Ananda.

   

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 18:35

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  
  Although I am not ecstatically happy now, I am comparatively less unhappy than before. This is what Buddhism means to me. What about you, going round and round. What about joining the people here in being contented and happy, bliss even!

  
  sigh, who open a can of worms again.

• Weychin

  20 Feb 11, 18:39

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Am I happy talking to MJK supporters relentlessly finding excuses for MJK pushing for di zi gui and tai shang gan yin pian? No. But I am doing it for a higher cause. Its the right thing to do. Less energy and time wasted for some future newbies here in our country.

  
  If you are unhappy, you cannot teach people to be happy. Right or wrong, one learns not to cling so tightly. What higher cause do you wish to champion by fostering a friction. To plant Buddha seed , it will germinate according to prevailing conditions. With accordance with Four Noble Truths, and Eightfold Path, so to different mindset comes a myriad of teachings to suitable for different circumstances. Radiant is Amithabha, Buddha of Boundless Light, once the seed is planted if not ripened this life time, then may the Buddha Nature, slowly but surely in future lifetimes
• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 18:47

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  as mentioned, it's too vast. since the two books already consolidated the more practical aspect of morality and stories of cause and effect, it's skillful to let newbies read less and understand more. simple as that. don't be attached to it's who's book. if so u can only read the sutra and not the commentries. even the sutras is recalled from Ananda.

  Okay, so in MCK point of view, there are no buddhism books or sutras which do a good job introducing moraility, cause and effect to newbies like the wai dao books di zi gui and gan yin pian.

  About Ananda, even though the sutra are from his recollection, they are words spoken by Buddha. Di Zi Gui or gan yin pian are not words spoken by Buddha. There's a difference.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 19:01

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  About Ananda, even though the sutra are from his recollection, they are words spoken by Buddha. Di Zi Gui or gan yin pian are not words spoken by Buddha. There's a difference.

  yes, but those sutra commentries and "buddhism" book in the library are not words spoken by Buddha too. past Masters/People wrote them from the understanding of Buddhism. it's the same as someone understand Buddhism, telling people to read books that are useful.

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 19:04

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Okay, so in MCK point of view, there are no buddhism books or sutras which do a good job introducing moraility, cause and effect to newbies like the wai dao books di zi gui and gan yin pian.

  About Ananda, even though the sutra are from his recollection, they are words spoken by Buddha. Di Zi Gui or gan yin pian are not words spoken by Buddha. There's a difference.

  I really doubt it, that wai dao books di zi gui and gan yin pian do a better job in introduicng morality, cause and effect to newbies.  Buddhism so many books and sutras, cannot match di zi gui and gan yin pian in this aspect?? Must rely on wai dao books to do the job?? I dun believe it.

   

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 19:07

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  yes, but those sutra commentries and "buddhism" book in the library are not words spoken by Buddha too. past Masters/People wrote them from the understanding of Buddhism. it's the same as someone understand Buddhism, telling people to read books that are useful.

  But isn't it a stretch that no books in Buddhism could introduce morality, cause and effect to newbies like di zi gui and gan yin pian? Dun even have one book??? C'mon... that cant be true.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 19:17

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  But isn't it a stretch that no books in Buddhism could introduce morality, cause and effect to newbies like di zi gui and gan yin pian? Dun even have one book??? C'mon... that cant be true.

  
  introduce morality is one thing, laying out practically detail by detail is another.

  195++ cause and effect stories may also be consolitated from Buddhism sutra. or it's more modern cases. i'm not sure, as i'm not into it either. but say if Weychin consolitated all the Buddhist Stories and print in a book, we also can advocate newbies to read. it's a consolitation, simple.

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 19:20

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  to say it's good book and then say it's not suitable, is as good as saying it's not a good book. this is also "twisting and turning" from the mirror of the mind.

  Its from Buddhism point of view. Priority and weightage should be given to Buddhism books. Not say, good books means its good to introduce to newbies. Priority should be given to Buddhism books.

  I am not the one twisting and turning here.

• Zenist69

  20 Feb 11, 19:29

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  introduce morality is one thing, laying out practically detail by detail is another.

  195++ cause and effect stories may also be consolitated from Buddhism sutra. or it's more modern cases. i'm not sure, as i'm not into it either. but say if Weychin consolitated all the Buddhist Stories and print in a book, we also can advocate newbies to read. it's a consolitation, simple.

  Any basic buddhism textbook could do a good job taking care of introducing morality, cause and effect to newbies. No need to use wai dao books such as di zi gui and gan yin pian.

  Or say, sutra such as Dhammapada, doesn't it taking care of the morality aspect introducing morality to newbies?

• realization

  20 Feb 11, 19:38

  Not too long ago, a fellow forummer Geis posted about his accident while rafting.  I concluded that it's important to practise the Dharma while we can and not wait till tomorrow.

  Spending time on this argument is getting nowhere.  If something were to happen to our physical bodies tonight or tomorrow, I daresay the last thing on our minds would be about this issue over MCK. But if you tell me that the last thing on your mind during your last dying moments will really be about this topic, then all I can say is that this has consumed you... to your detriment.

  你一�我一�， �辩论到几时？

  Agree to disagree.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 19:43

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Any basic buddhism textbook could do a good job taking care of introducing morality, cause and effect to newbies. No need to use wai dao books such as di zi gui and gan yin pian.

  Or say, sutra such as Dhammapada, doesn't it taking care of the morality?

  
  u miss the " introduce morality is one thing, laying out practically detail by detail is another."

  Dhammapada(not a sutra but a consolitation) is not so specific on morality. but fair enough.

• sinweiy

  20 Feb 11, 20:06

  Originally posted by realization:

  Not too long ago, a fellow forummer Geis posted about his accident while rafting.  Geis went on to conclude that it's important to practise the Dharma while we can and to practice it now (that's how I understood the purpose of that post).

  Spending time on this argument is getting nowhere.  If something were to happen to our physical bodies tonight or tomorrow, I daresay the last thing on our minds would be about this issue over MCK. But if you tell me that the last thing on your mind during your last dying moments will really be about this topic, then all I can say is that this has consumed you... to your detriment.

  你一�我一�， �辩论到几时？

  Agree to disagree.

   

  yea, if they stay on the healthy discussion track, it's fine, if not then it's unhealthy.

  你一�我一� remind me of a debating method by Tibetan monks.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEN7kWJzL1g

  at least they smile when debating. :)

  /\

   

• Zenist69

  21 Feb 11, 10:52

   

• Amitayus48

  22 Feb 11, 13:27

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

   

  yea, if they stay on the healthy discussion track, it's fine, if not then it's unhealthy.

  你一�我一� remind me of a debating method by Tibetan monks.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEN7kWJzL1g

  at least they smile when debating. :)

  /\

   

  ※日期：一ä¹�七ä¹�å¹´å��一月ä¹�日　地点：承天禅寺　年龄：八å��å…«å²�‘å�ªæœ‰é‚£äº›ä¸�开化ã€�ä¸�明ç�†çš„人，æ‰�会把ä¸�实在ã€�没有的事情拿æ�¥èµ·å¦„想烦æ�¼ï¼Œè¿™ä¹Ÿæ˜¯ä¸€ç§�妄念愚痴。’
  
  ※日期：一ä¹�七ä¹�å¹´å��一月七日　地点：承天禅寺　年龄：八å��å…«å²�‘念佛是最简便的，ä¸�åƒ�æŒ�咒还须费脑筋，无论å�šä»€ä¹ˆäº‹ï¼Œå¿ƒå†…默念佛å�·ï¼Œæœ‰å¿µåƒ�没念似的，æ�’常如此，æ‰�能有æˆ�就，念佛是最基本的，密宗也è¦�念佛。’
  
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  Amtabha and you are blessed�

• WeeShun

  22 Feb 11, 15:34

  为佛弟å­�。å�ªç§° “如是我闻”ä¸�称颂 “太上曰”
  为佛弟�。�佛�学，�佛�修，�佛莫作。�佛勿皈。�佛�弘�
  

  
  阿弥陀佛

• WeeShun

  22 Feb 11, 19:45

  哀哉�哀哉�哀哉�
  作者：廖国民
  

  在佛教界有一�说法，�佛教目�已��到末法时期了。所谓末法时期，就是「佛教从衰微到�亡时期�。�说末法时期时「佛法分化������得严�，社会风气�好，信外��邪师传法的人多于信正法的人。��佛��佛寺庙�佛�等开始�质，甚至最�还会��存在。时间为一万年。�
  
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  当这事的纷纷扰扰正方兴未艾之际，我竟然�在网络上看到在我国有�少弟�的净空法师的一段演讲视频。这个视频的标题让我错愕：〈真神�有一個，在佛教變�佛陀；在基�教變�耶穌；在伊斯蘭教變真主�〉他在该视频表示：「我确确实实肯定宇宙之间�有一個真神。�他说「所有宗教的神圣都是这个真神的化身�。所以耶稣是释迦牟尼的化身，释迦牟尼也是「耶稣的化身，上�的使者�。
  
  以��法师们的开示，常是心生欢喜，�称 "Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!"，�「善哉�善哉�善哉��这一次我�悲从中�，默念「哀哉�哀哉�哀哉��

   

  • 廖国民 - 马佛é�’å‰�总会长
                    现任马佛é�’顾问
    
  • Liau Kok Meng
    Ex Chairman of Young Buddhist Association of Malaysia
    Current Advisor to Young Buddhist Assiciation of Malaysia
    
• Zenist69

  22 Feb 11, 22:37

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

   

  yea, if they stay on the healthy discussion track, it's fine, if not then it's unhealthy.

  你一�我一� remind me of a debating method by Tibetan monks.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEN7kWJzL1g

  at least they smile when debating. :)

  /\

   

  Why did u delete away my msg? Its a legit reply.

  Morality base on whose morality? Confucianism and Daoism morailty are not Buddhism morality. They are not the same.

  To push Di Zi Gui and Gan Yin Pian to newbie, thats propagating Confucianism and Daoism.