关于初学佛从弟子规, 太上感应篇开始

• WeeShun

  22 Feb 11, 22:39

  zenist69, scriptures is not the only problem. The kind of "buddhism" taught by Venerable Jing Kong is very much amiss as well, as messy as the dizigui and ganyinpian issue.

   

   

• Zenist69

  22 Feb 11, 22:50

  Originally posted by realization:

  Not too long ago, a fellow forummer Geis posted about his accident while rafting.  I concluded that it's important to practise the Dharma while we can and not wait till tomorrow.

  Spending time on this argument is getting nowhere.  If something were to happen to our physical bodies tonight or tomorrow, I daresay the last thing on our minds would be about this issue over MCK. But if you tell me that the last thing on your mind during your last dying moments will really be about this topic, then all I can say is that this has consumed you... to your detriment.

  你一�我一�， �辩论到几时？

  Agree to disagree.

  If I just wanna reach self-realization, enlightenment, then of course u are right, I shouldn't be spending time debating on this Di Zi Gui issue. 'cause it doesn't bring me self realization. But from Mahayana Buddhism point of view, we cant be so selfish and care only about our own realization, enlightenment isn't it?

  I feel oblige to deal with this Di Zi Gui issue every now and then, 'cause this matter will cost unneccesary time and energy wasted for the newbie. Some of them might even turn away from Buddhism 'cause of Di Zi Gui.

  Look, let them newbie choose whether Buddhism is really for them or not. But to deceptively pass them some books which are not Buddhism, thats just not right! If u set out to buy xyz brand product, but some salesman insist to give u abc brand product and say they xyz and abc brand are all the same (which they are in fact not the same), isn't that cheating?? Isn't that unethical?? So why is it okay then to be dishonest and deceptive when comes to such even more important matter as spirtual matter, belief system matter??

  There are lots of variable factor unknown factor in this MJK sect pushing Di Zi Gui and Gan Yin Pian to the newbies! Therefore its dangerous and reckless to do that! So its best for them to stop doing it! Dun mess up the Buddhism 'market'! Dun taint Buddhism! Dun pass off books which are not Buddhism book as Buddhism book! Dun mislead people! Be honest and JUST PLAY IT STRAIGHT!

• Zenist69

  22 Feb 11, 22:54

  Originally posted by WeeShun:

  zenist69, scriptures is not the only problem. The kind of "buddhism" taught by Venerable Jing Kong is very much amiss as well, as messy as the dizigui and ganyinpian issue.

   

   

  Thats why I threw away all MJK books and dvd. 'cause I dun noe which part to trust! Some part okay, some part not okay (like asking people not to see doc when fall sick part)! Its mindboggling! How do I know which could be trusted?? So to be safe, I just threw them all away.

• Hun7qing77

  23 Feb 11, 01:17

  「哀哉? 哀哉? 哀哉?�

  更悲哀的是:

   

  佛第��懂得顶礼法师身上的袈裟.

• WeeShun

  23 Feb 11, 01:38

  "The man who wears the yellow-dyed robe but is not free from stains himself, without self-restraint and integrity, is unworthy of the robe. But the man who has freed himself of stains and has found peace of mind in an upright life, possessing self-restraint and integrity, he is indeed worthy of the dyed robe." - Dhammapada
  
  ��盲目的崇拜一件袈裟，袈裟穿在无德之人上也�是一�废布，穿在一个弘扬正法的人上就是�田衣。佛陀已�在法��里说的很清楚了。

  今天，传上你所谓袈裟的人比比皆是，真佛宗å�¢èƒœå½¦ï¼Œæ½®å·žå–„堂，民间神é�“设教有哪一个ä¸�是穿上这æ�¡è¢ˆè£Ÿå‘¢ï¼Ÿä¸ºä»€ä¹ˆä½ ä¸�求宫颈礼拜这些“穿袈裟”之人呢？
  
  袈裟其实�是一件代表众生的���田的衣，而这件袈裟是出家人三衣中必�的，这�是穿上袈裟就是�人礼拜供养，而是代表�弘护佛陀的法，众生的善�与正�止，这样具足德行的人穿上袈裟自然�为众生大�田。相�的一件袈裟穿在一个弘扬�佛乃至��佛法正�的人，此人穿袈裟犹如一�无益的�破布。
  
  佛陀如ç�­ä¹‹å‰�，魔王波旬跟佛陀宣说：“到了末法时期，我å�«æˆ‘çš„å¾’å­�徒孙混入你的僧团队ä¼�里，ä½�你佛家庙宇，穿你佛家袈裟，å�ƒä½ ä½›å®¶é¥­ï¼Œç ´å��你的佛法。 他们曲解你的ç»�典，破å��你的戒律ï¼�”

  佛陀�了魔王的�，久久无语，�一会，两行热泪缓缓�了下�。魔王�此，率众狂笑而去。

  所以请�者，三���盲目崇拜袈裟，闻�修，信解行�，这些都是需�我们一一去�实，哪怕是求生净土也必须建立正�，念佛三昧，信愿行�
  
  
  �无阿弥陀佛�

• MiddleWay87

  23 Feb 11, 02:39

  Hey guys.. i feel that there could be some video recording somewhere which Master Chin Kung mentioned clearly why he want to introduce Di Zi Gui/Tai Shang Gan Ying Pian. If you could find this recording, maybe u'd like to post it here for us to see.. thanks.

  Sometimes.. i mean for example only, no offence, not referring to anyone. If hear from ppl what another person said, might not be 100% accurate.

  I understand ur concerns. This might be better than continue argueing further. The debate been going on for some time, I'm also curious to see what Master Chin Kung said is the reason.

   

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 11:30

  Originally posted by MiddleWay87:

  Hey guys.. i feel that there could be some video recording somewhere which Master Chin Kung mentioned clearly why he want to introduce Di Zi Gui/Tai Shang Gan Ying Pian. If you could find this recording, maybe u'd like to post it here for us to see.. thanks.

  Sometimes.. i mean for example only, no offence, not referring to anyone. If hear from ppl what another person said, might not be 100% accurate.

  I understand ur concerns. This might be better than continue argueing further. The debate been going on for some time, I'm also curious to see what Master Chin Kung said is the reason.

   

  Here's a youtube video link to one of his speech related to di zi gui:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0y_H613Mk

  And here's the transcript of the video:

  "文摘æ�­éŒ„—大方廣佛è�¯åš´ç¶“（第二Ｏä¹�六）2010/2/1　檔å��：12-17-2096
  
  如果在家�學，你首先影響的是你一家，你一家人得度。從哪裡�起？你必須�知�佛法是

  ­å¸«é�“，師é�“一定是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上，淨業三ç¦�是學佛ä¸�管你是學哪個宗派ã€�哪個法門，­å®ƒæ˜¯æœ€é«˜çš„指導原則決定ä¸�能ç–�忽。三ç¦�頭一æ¢�ã€�頭一å�¥ã€Œå­�養父æ¯�，奉事師長ã€�，你å�šåˆ°­äº†æ²’有？人生在這個世間最大的æ�©äººï¼Œé¤Šè‚²ä½ çš„ã€�教導你的就這兩個人 - 父æ¯�ã€�è€�師，父æ¯�ã€�è€�師ä¸�知é�“å­�敬å�«èƒŒå¸«å�›é�“，大ä¸�å­�ã€�大ä¸�敬，那什麼樣的果報？自己­æƒ³ä¸€æƒ³å°±å�¯ä»¥çŸ¥é�“了，這是我們ä¸�能ä¸�知é�“的。我們一定è¦�克盡å­�é�“，從哪裡學起？學佛è¦�­å¾žã€Šå¼Ÿå­�è¦�》學起，佛法的根是《å��善業é�“》，《å��善業é�“》是建立在å­�é�“的基礎上。所以­å„’è·Ÿé�“是佛的根，沒有儒沒有é�“佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就ä¸�能æˆ�就了。你è¦�知é�“中國傳統­æ–‡åŒ–儒釋é�“是一家，決定ä¸�能分離的。形å¼�上有儒釋é�“，實際上沒有。
  
  你看看中國自å�¤ä»¥ä¾†ï¼Œçœ‹çœ‹ã€Šé«˜åƒ§å‚³ã€‹ã€�《居士傳》，哪一個學佛的人沒有讀《四書》ã€�《­äº”經》？都學，基礎。哪一個學佛的人ä¸�念《感應篇》？ä¸�念《è€�莊》？統統學，é�“長也學­ä½›ï¼Œå„’家的這些è�–賢他也學佛，所以é�ŽåŽ»å„’釋é�“三個根都紮了，åƒ�鼎三足頂立，根深蒂固。­æ‰€ä»¥ç„¡è«–是學儒ã€�å­¸é�“ã€�學佛都有æˆ�就。學儒，æˆ�è�–æˆ�賢；學é�“，æˆ�神ã€�æˆ�仙，神仙；學佛­ï¼Œæˆ�ä½›æˆ�è�©è–©ï¼Œçµ±çµ±æœ‰æˆ�就。所以很多å�Œå­¸å•�我從哪裡學起？從《弟å­�è¦�》學起，《弟å­�è¦�­ã€‹æ²’有學到人都å�šä¸�好，怎麼能作佛呢？哪有這個é�“ç�†ï¼Ÿä¸�但è¦�學《弟å­�è¦�》，近代å�°å…‰å¤§­å¸«æ•™æˆ‘們è¦�把因果教育擺在第一。"

   Will it be the best to post what MJK say about di zi gui? I doubt so. After this, MJK supporters might argue argue argue finding more excuses for MJK.

  The thing is simple. Dun pass off something which is not Buddhism as Buddhism! Let me repeat wat I said to forum member realization,

  "...if u set out to buy xyz brand product, but some salesman insist to give u abc brand product and say they xyz and abc brand are all the same (which they are in fact not the same), isn't that cheating?? Isn't that unethical?? So why is it okay then to be dishonest and deceptive when comes to such even more important matter as spirtual matter, belief system matter??

  There are lots of variable factor unknown factor in this MJK sect pushing Di Zi Gui and Gan Yin Pian to the newbies! Therefore its dangerous and reckless to do that! So its best for them to stop doing it! Dun mess up the Buddhism 'market'! Dun taint Buddhism! Dun pass off books which are not Buddhism book as Buddhism book! Dun mislead people! Be honest and JUST PLAY IT STRAIGHT!"

• Weychin

  23 Feb 11, 12:53

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Here's a youtube video link to one of his speech related to di zi gui:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0y_H613Mk

  And here's the transcript of the video:

  "文摘�錄—大方廣佛�嚴經（第二Ｏ�六）2010/2/1　檔�：12-17-2096
  
  如果在家�學，你首先影響的是你一家，你一家人得度。從哪裡�起？你必須�知�佛法是

  ­師�，師�一定是建立在��的基礎上，淨業三�是學佛�管你是學哪個宗派�哪個法門，­它是最高的指導原則決定�能�忽。三�頭一��頭一�「�養父�，奉事師長�，你�到­了沒有？人生在這個世間最大的�人，養育你的�教導你的就這兩個人 - 父���師，父���師�知��敬�背師��，大���大�敬，那什麼樣的果報？自己­想一想就�以知�了，這是我們�能�知�的。我們一定�克盡��，從哪裡學起？學佛�­從《弟��》學起，佛法的根是《�善業�》，《�善業�》是建立在��的基礎上。所以­儒跟�是佛的根，沒有儒沒有�佛的根就沒有了，你學佛就�能�就了。你�知�中國傳統­文化儒釋�是一家，決定�能分離的。形�上有儒釋�，實際上沒有。
  
  你看看中國自�以來，看看《高僧傳》�《居士傳》，哪一個學佛的人沒有讀《四書》�《­五經》？都學，基礎。哪一個學佛的人�念《感應篇》？�念《�莊》？統統學，�長也學­佛，儒家的這些�賢他也學佛，所以�去儒釋�三個根都紮了，�鼎三足頂立，根深蒂固。­所以無論是學儒�學��學佛都有�就。學儒，���賢；學�，�神��仙，神仙；學佛­，�佛��薩，統統有�就。所以很多�學�我從哪裡學起？從《弟��》學起，《弟��­》沒有學到人都��好，怎麼能作佛呢？哪有這個��？�但�學《弟��》，近代�光大­師教我們�把因果教育擺在第一。"

   Will it be the best to post what MJK say about di zi gui? I doubt so. After this, MJK supporters might argue argue argue finding more excuses for MJK.

  The thing is simple. Dun pass off something which is not Buddhism as Buddhism! Let me repeat wat I said to forum member realization,

  "...if u set out to buy xyz brand product, but some salesman insist to give u abc brand product and say they xyz and abc brand are all the same (which they are in fact not the same), isn't that cheating?? Isn't that unethical?? So why is it okay then to be dishonest and deceptive when comes to such even more important matter as spirtual matter, belief system matter??

  There are lots of variable factor unknown factor in this MJK sect pushing Di Zi Gui and Gan Yin Pian to the newbies! Therefore its dangerous and reckless to do that! So its best for them to stop doing it! Dun mess up the Buddhism 'market'! Dun taint Buddhism! Dun pass off books which are not Buddhism book as Buddhism book! Dun mislead people! Be honest and JUST PLAY IT STRAIGHT!"

  
  When practicing Confucianism, one becomes a sage When practising Taoism, one become a immortal, When practising buddhism, one becomes a bodhisattva. Studying the classics is to be a superior man, without values one cannot be a good person , how then can one be a good Buddhist? If you are a chinese, within a chinese culture,you will more likely to be exposed to taoism and confucianism, both being chinese in origin, more firmly entrenched than buddhism. If you are a Buddhist, you will hold it higher than others, as such your conduct must be higher than others. How do we do that? By first learning from others, then you will hold youself higher than others, and without reproach.
• realization

  23 Feb 11, 13:04

  Zenist, why are you now specifically pointing out that you said "such and such" to me? 

  I don't know if you realized it but the way you phrase it is as if I said it's okay to be dishonest and deceptive when it comes to spiritual matters and belief systems. Am I being dishonest or "not playing it straight"?

  Your previous message to me written yesterday at 10:50 pm is fine, because it was within the context of me exhorting all concerned about this topic to stop arguing back and forth... to no avail. 

  That Sinweiy chose to take my words as an exclusive comment to you and those against MCK, is his prerogative, but I have said in no uncertain terms previously that I understand where you are coming from and why you are doing this.... except that I cannot agree with going on and on about the topic when others have obviously already heard you.

  All I have been saying is that such back and forth argument is doing no one any good because both sides are resolutely standing their ground.  Expecting others to come round to your way of seeing things when others don't want to is, in layman terms, akin to forcing someone who doesn't love you to love you back.

• Amitayus48

  23 Feb 11, 13:19

  Di Zhi Gui is meant for many leaders as the conduct of harmony amongst countries and the well beings of its citizen rest on the onus of these leaders. So if u opined otherwise, it means that all leaders should act unbecoming and leads the nation and its citizen to astray

  Awesome & inspirtional aspect of Di Zhi Gui
  Human beings, regardless of nationality, race, or religion - everyone - should be loved equally. We are all sheltered by the same sky and we all live on the same planet Earth.
  
  One is of high station, one must be kind and forgiving. Using force to make people submit doesn't make their hearts submit. Only using reason to make people submit will cause there to be no mutterings. Better to give more and take less. When about to do unto others, first ask yourself; if you don't want it yourself, then stop immediately. One wants to repay kindness and forget grudges. Repaying grudges is short; repaying kindness is long.
  
  In the morning one must wash the hands plus rinse the mouth. After returning from urinating and defecation, one always cleans the hands. First follow one's station in life; second suit the family's financial situation. With food and drink do not be picky. Eat just enough, not excessively. While still young, don't drink alcohol; being drunk is a most ugly sight. Upon seeing others being good, think of becoming equally good. Even when far below them, gradually get better. Publicizing other people's shortcomings is in itself evil. People hate it very much, and troubles arise. Admonishing each other to do good builds up both parties' virtue.

  Amitabha _/\_

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 13:36

  Originally posted by realization:

  Zenist, why are you now specifically pointing out that you said "such and such" to me? 

  I don't know if you realized it but the way you phrase it is as if I said it's okay to be dishonest and deceptive when it comes to spiritual matters and belief systems. Am I being dishonest or "not playing it straight"?

  Your previous message to me written yesterday at 10:50 pm is fine, because it was within the context of me exhorting all concerned about this topic to stop arguing back and forth... to no avail. 

  That Sinweiy chose to take my words as an exclusive comment to you and those against MCK, is his prerogative, but I have said in no uncertain terms previously that I understand where you are coming from and why you are doing this.... except that I cannot agree with going on and on about the topic when others have obviously already heard you.

  All I have been saying is that such back and forth argument is doing no one any good because both sides are resolutely standing their ground.  Expecting others to come round to your way of seeing things when others don't want to is, in layman terms, akin to forcing someone who doesn't love you to love you back.

  I reuse that message which i wrote to u, 'cause I find it useful. Doesn't mean that u are the one supporting MJK on this issue. Not towards u, really. My apology for the misunderstanding and unskillfulness in my communication.

  As for you and other kind forum members concerning that the debate regarding pushing di zi gui and gan yin pian to newbie is going nowhere, well dun be.  IMHO, the messages here in this thread from the past few days, the debate had took a turn, it turn out more clear and direct, exhaustive, played all out and had reach its final end.  (Unless someone could come up with something new.)

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 13:40

  Originally posted by Amitayus48:

  Di Zhi Gui is meant for many leaders as the conduct of harmony amongst countries and the well beings of its citizen rest on the onus of these leaders. So if u opined otherwise, it means that all leaders should act unbecoming and leads the nation and its citizen to astray

  Awesome & inspirtional aspect of Di Zhi Gui
  Human beings, regardless of nationality, race, or religion - everyone - should be loved equally. We are all sheltered by the same sky and we all live on the same planet Earth.
  
  One is of high station, one must be kind and forgiving. Using force to make people submit doesn't make their hearts submit. Only using reason to make people submit will cause there to be no mutterings. Better to give more and take less. When about to do unto others, first ask yourself; if you don't want it yourself, then stop immediately. One wants to repay kindness and forget grudges. Repaying grudges is short; repaying kindness is long.
  
  In the morning one must wash the hands plus rinse the mouth. After returning from urinating and defecation, one always cleans the hands. First follow one's station in life; second suit the family's financial situation. With food and drink do not be picky. Eat just enough, not excessively. While still young, don't drink alcohol; being drunk is a most ugly sight. Upon seeing others being good, think of becoming equally good. Even when far below them, gradually get better. Publicizing other people's shortcomings is in itself evil. People hate it very much, and troubles arise. Admonishing each other to do good builds up both parties' virtue.

  Amitabha _/\_

  Like I said, Di Zi Gui is a good book. And the issue is not whether di zi gui is a good book or not.

• WeeShun

  23 Feb 11, 13:51

  Amitayus, I second zenist.
  
  Nobody says that Di Zi Gui and Tai Shang Gan yin Pian or even the Bible or Tao Te Ching is not a good book. Infact, all religious scriptures regardless good or bad to us, should be duly respected.
  
  The problem now is respecting these scriptures does not equate to bring them into Buddhism and making it as a fundamental entry to Buddhism. Because Buddhism had already developed its own set of family values, moral codes and social responsibility as taught in elementry Buddhist sutras such as Sutra or the hundred parables, the Mangala Sutta and the Singalovada Sutta. All those values taught in those non-buddhist scriptures are found in our very own Buddhist sutras and what more? What we our Buddhist sutras teaches might be absent from others sutras, thus as Buddhists, we should honestly put total reliance on the Buddha and his teachings from elementry to final graduation. The Buddha had laid the path clearly for us and there is no need to even bring in non buddhist scriptures for Buddhists to build our fundamentals, this is conceptually and practically wrong from beginning, middle and end.
  
  Follow the Buddha !
  Practise the Dharma !
  Befriend the Sangha !
  
  simple right ?

• Weychin

  23 Feb 11, 14:49

  Have I now become a spokesman for Reverend Jing Kung? Ha! Ha! Firstly Rev Jing Kung is promote peace and harmony, without which Buddhism cannot spread effectively, so his mission is not incompatible. He applies public relations and social interaction to reduce discrimination and thus friction among the different religions There are four keys to his mission:- 1) charity - in the; bodhisattva's way to end craving, in social conduct; acts of generosity. to foster goodwill, creating precedence of mutual kindness 2) kind or considerate words 3) helpful way of conduct 4) together or mutual involvement To these end, one must be humble, not self righteous, or holier than thou, to show respect for others highest beliefs. Compassionate of the highest order :- Origins of major religions derive out of goodwill, sincerity and therefore compassion towards man. Just as it is said Avalokeshvara, out compassion in the various 32 forms to save setients beings from suffering. So when Jing Kung Fashi bows, he is bowing to Avalokeshvara, embodiment of compassion. Just as image of Jesus invokes the spirit of compassion, so to is believers of other faiths, the image of Buddha or Bodhisattve is representative of compassion. Learning from other religions:- Seeing the Buddha nature in all things:- When we read and learn from any sources, when we benefit from, is is because when person who wrote it benefit us. So we learn to be grateful, in buddhist lingo Mudita. Because we are able to understand the noblest of their principles, we are the manifest wisdom and respect. That being Buddhist is being able to embody nad embrace everyone, everything. Without compassion and sincerity, one learns nothing. Witht discrimantion, one shuns from learning and becomes stagnant, and one cannot grow, creating contradictions among the different religions and sects Where are contradictions, one can not be truly happy.. Jing Kung Fashi acknowledges there are unhealthy trends of protelyzing by some, but it is unhealthy because it closes avenues for learning and understanding. All things being inherently empty:- When a person reaches a stage non duality, there is no division between right or wrong. As all is part of phenomena arising from mind. Anyway, thank you for this link, I am now able to see another aspect of Reverend Jing Kung from this. It should us the great compassion and wisdom of Buddhism. That I can still grow to be even better! Thank you again! OM MANI PADME HUM
• Dawnfirstlight

  23 Feb 11, 15:15

  Originally posted by Zenist69:

  Like I said, Di Zi Gui is a good book. And the issue is not whether di zi gui is a good book or not.

  Actually any book that can lead people to Buddha's dharma is a good book. Since Di Zi Gui can lead so many people to recite Amitabha and Buddha's dharma, it is indeed a very good book.

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 15:16

  Originally posted by Weychin:

  Have I now become a spokesman for Reverend Jing Kung?
  Ha! Ha!
  Firstly Rev Jing Kung is promote peace and harmony, without which Buddhism cannot spread effectively, so his mission is not incompatible.
  He applies public relations and social interaction to reduce discrimination and thus friction among the different religions

  There are four keys to his mission:-

  1) charity – in the; bodhisattva’s way to end craving, in social conduct; acts of generosity. to foster goodwill, creating precedence of mutual kindness

  2) kind or considerate words

  3) helpful way of conduct

  4) together or mutual involvement

  To these end, one must be humble, not self righteous, or holier than thou,
  to show respect for others highest beliefs.

  Compassionate of the highest order :-

  Origins of major religions derive out of goodwill, sincerity and therefore compassion towards man. Just as it is said Avalokeshvara, out compassion in the various 32 forms to save setients beings from suffering. So when Jing Kung Fashi bows, he is bowing to Avalokeshvara, embodiment of compassion.
  Just as image of Jesus invokes the spirit of compassion, so to is believers of other faiths, the image of Buddha or Bodhisattve is representative of compassion.

  Learning from other religions:-

  Seeing the Buddha nature in all things:-

  When we read and learn from any sources, when we benefit from, is is because when person who wrote it benefit us. So we learn to be grateful, in
  buddhist lingo Mudita. Because we are able to understand the noblest of their principles, we are the manifest wisdom and respect. That being Buddhist is being able to embody nad embrace everyone, everything. Without compassion and sincerity, one learns nothing.

  Witht discrimantion, one shuns from learning and becomes stagnant, and one cannot grow, creating contradictions among the different religions and sects Where are contradictions, one can not be truly happy.. Jing Kung Fashi acknowledges there are unhealthy trends of protelyzing by some, but it is unhealthy because it closes avenues for learning and understanding.

  All things being inherently empty:-

  When a person reaches a stage non duality, there is no division between right or wrong. As all is part of phenomena arising from mind.

  Anyway, thank you for this link, I am now able to see another aspect of Reverend Jing Kung from this. It should us the great compassion and wisdom of Buddhism. That I can still grow to be even better!

  Thank you again!

  OM MANI PADME HUM

   

  All I know is that it is wrong to pass Di Zi Gui off as Buddhism book to the newbie. So the MJK camp should stop doing it. Simple as that.

  AMTF

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 15:18

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  Actually any book that can lead people to Buddha's dharma is a good book. Since Di Zi Gui can lead so many people to recite Amitabha and Buddha's dharma, it is indeed a very good book.

  It's a good book nobody deny that. But it might not lead people to Buddha Dharma, or recitation of Amitabha. Its an act of deception, being dishonest, to pass Di Zi Gui off as Buddhism book to the newbie. Di Zi Gui is no Buddhism book.

• Zenist69

  23 Feb 11, 15:48

  Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:

  Actually any book that can lead people to Buddha's dharma is a good book. Since Di Zi Gui can lead so many people to recite Amitabha and Buddha's dharma, it is indeed a very good book.

  How would Di Zi Gui lead one to recite Amitabha and Buddha's Dharma, would u kindly explain?

• WeeShun

  23 Feb 11, 16:05

  weychin,

  Nobody is aganist compassion, peace and harmony. Did I even suggest starting a war aganist non-buddhist religions and their believers? I suggested we respect them and their beliefs. So intolerance was never a point here.
  
  What's the problem here now is he has imported non-buddhist teachings into Buddhism and what's worst? instead of complementing Buddhist teachings, such teachings he imported in goes aganist the basic tenets of the Buddhist Faith.
  
  The Buddha was never a God nor an incarnate of God, this is a well known belief shared by Buddhists across all traditions and the Buddha was aganist the belief of a "Almighty God" in control of all human beings. Such a belief in God should never be mixed into the flow of Buddhism.
  
  Secondly, according to Pureland Buddhist teachings, all purelanders rely on the name of Amituofo and his vow power to gain rebirth in the Pureland, there are various options from the ten recitation methods for purelanders ranging from mouth recitation to samadhi or visualisation recitation but again Ven Jing Kong is now promoting that we can rely on the bible and quran and gain rebirth in Amituofo's Pureland, this is untrue of what the Buddha nor all pureland grandmasters taught. Purelanders singlely and wholeheartly rely on Amituofo and not on bibical nor quranic teachings. Almost all well learned Purelanders knows that Pureland is not Heaven. Neither Buddhism nor Christianity/ Islam offered rebirth in Pureland either ways but a new age teaching by Ven Jing Kong again.
  
  Get it clear again, weychin. this is not a case of disharmony, intolerance or religious bashing and never a religion was ever bashed in all my replies. The root problem now is the purity of the Buddha's teachings !
  
  No discrimination to any religons nor scriptures here but respecting common spaces and importing them into Buddhism and thus making Buddhism more and more unclear is the problem now.
  
  As a Buddhist, we rely ONLY on the triple gems. is this call discrimation ???
  
  
  namo amituofo

• WeeShun

  23 Feb 11, 16:40

   

  《涅槃ç»�》云：“若归ä¾�三å®�，是谓正近事，终ä¸�应归ä¾�，诸馀天神等。”

  
  《善生�净三归�》云：
  　　（一）�三归已，造作痴业，�外�法自在天语，以是因缘，失于三归。
  　　（二）若有造作���业，为��故，修于善事，如市场法（好比市场作买�，以求利为先），其心�能怜悯众生，如是之人�得三归。
  　　（三）若人信其（神）能救一切怖�，礼拜外�，是人则失三归�法。

  
  《涅槃�》云：归�于僧伽，�共外��。

• Weychin

  24 Feb 11, 02:55

  You pay lip service to compassion, peace and harmony without knowing what it effort it entails. You take the peace you enjoyed for granted. You are prejudiced against Reverend Jing Kung. You feel so strongly about inclusion of educational materials from prevailing moral ethics and beliefs. Prejudicial also means being intolerant.Specifically , Daoist and Confucianist teaching in particular,because it is because the followers have an affinity with these values, that Jing Kung use them as entry level reference to initiate them into common moral principles before moving to core Buddhist practices and cultivation. To non buddhist who only know God as the Highest principle,the key word being Highest, and not God. As an expression of the ultimate one can reach, is what Jing Kung is relating, Buddha Nature. Yet you feel offended, simply because you believe there is no God. Then how would you like to relate Buddha Nature to non believers and how would you like them to respect Buddha Nature and in doing so, respect your beliefs as a Buddhist? It is already not easy being a human, much less born in a time and place where the Dharma will thrive.Thus, being a Buddhist is also about conditions being ripe. You take being a Buddhist for granted. As a Buddhist,you rely on Buddhist practices taught by you teacher to cultivate yourself not only spiritually but morally. Morality is good, it forms a good base to begin cultivation to enlightment. It is important but not the most.So, the faster you get tempered into being morally upright the faster you can settle into the actual practice of calm abiding and insight training. Moral conduct, if you can see, is fairly universal. If you do not yet have the affinity with Buddhism in this life, the best you can hope for a non believer, is for them, themselves to create good karma and positive affinity with Buddhism. How do we create good karma, by being morally upright, kind deeds and peace of mind. So we encourage non believers by helping them being the best they can be, and also have a positive impression of Buddhism. If that being good for non believers, via their respective scriptures, so be it. Do not under estimate the importance of affinity. You can bring the cow to the water, you cannot make it drink. The cow must want to drink. Recommending the scriptures of others' religions does'nt mean embracing other faiths, neither does it mean you stop reading Buddhist scriptures or abandoning your Buddhist practices. Or abandoning our refuges or or vows? Would you? I won't. So does it mean that if you read a bible or the koran you will lose faith in Buddhism? Possibly, as the reality is, if you are inclined towards the concept of a creator, you will veer towards a Godhead anyway. But if your karmic affinity is strong, you will never be disillusioned. Instead, you will have an expansiveness of heart, your paramitas will strengthened immensely. What the Reverend is doing ,is not discriminating between Buddhist and non Buddhist, all are equally important. Creating a peripheral conditions of peace and harmony is extremely helpful for growth and spread of Dharma. I still do have discrimination, therefore I find him admirable.
• WeeShun

  24 Feb 11, 05:27

  double post

• WeeShun

  24 Feb 11, 05:27

  multi post

• WeeShun

  24 Feb 11, 05:27

  multi post

• WeeShun

  24 Feb 11, 05:54

  you are entitled to your own belief, nobody can change anyone. It is only through proper reasoning and if your case, your "reasoning" comes not from a Buddhist viewpoint but from your own personal view, what more can I do ? This is happening because your foundation upon Buddhism is not built through basic tenets but through a parallel and similarity with other religion level.
  
  First you accuse me of being intolerant and uncompassionate to other religions and after that you found no evidence of me aganist any other religons then now youiu start accusing me of paying lip service. If the purpose of our exhcnage here is to "win over" someone, then it would be completely useless, I am saying this to you and myself, because the basic motivation of exchanging here is for each other to reason and exlpore to truth by each of our further investigations.
  
  To a Buddhist who knows God as the highest? We would still tell them, a right view should be established, Buddha is not God. We would not start compromising and agreeing with them that Buddha is God, this is not even a skillfull mean here. And the Greatest problem here now is "There is only One true God, it appears as Buddha in india, kongzi in china, jesus in ....." Such beleifs are not even right to start with. Do a research on 净空怪论 on gooogle, you will be able to read many other people's comments both positive and negative and its up to you to make your own decision, but let me remind you, our moderator Eternalnow had said clearly that a "Almighty creator God" is considered as a false view and not allowed in this forums, are you trying to saying EternalNow is being intolerant or embracing the basic tenets of Buddhism?
  
  Also Buddha nature and God is not parallel, the Buddha did not teach this either. Infact, Buddha nature (Ven Jing Kong touched on Dharma nature not Buddha nature) it again is his own assumption tha "Buddha nature" is God.
  
  Further, you claim that I take being Buddhist for granted which is not true because as a Buddhist, I seek refuge and rely only on the Buddha and his teachings and not other teachings. On the same time as a serious purelanders, i would only rely in Amituofo but not Bible and Quranic teachings to gain rebirth in Pureland. Can You please tell me, which Pureland Teaching or Pureland Master told us that we can rely on bible and quran to gain rebirth in Amituofo??
  
  Again, if you find nothing wrong with Ven Jing Kong teachngs, Can you please explicty tell me what's wrong with YI Guan Tao???? There teachings is almost totally same as Ven Jing Kong now.
  
  Recommending other people's scripture? This is not the problem now, Buddhists are very open minded people, if their teachings are not aganist morality, Buddhism have no reason to be aganist them and their scriptures but this is not equalvalient to mixing them into Buddhist practises, in the case of relying on bible and quran for rebirth in Pureland.
  
  Again, i ask .. is there anything wrong for a Buddhist to solely seek refuge and practise only the Buddha and his teachings?
  
  Lastly, you accuse me of hearsay and wanted "evidence" I gave you evidence and you know find new excuse, this is perfect example of peole who cannot analyse. But luckily people like "realization" can speak from a neutral point of view corresonponding to Buddhist teachings and also "dawnlight" who held up his/her promise to "shutup" on Mck issue but he/she also went further by clarifying what's wrong with Ven Jingkong after watching the video. This is what I call, investigation and not blind belief.
  
  In Buddhism, investigation is always encouraged. It is easy to correspond anything to your own mind but hard to reconcile with Buddhism. I suggest you go back to the basic tenets of the Buddhist Faith.
  
  
  
  Namo Amituofo ~