A question about Hell Money
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Hi. Before I start, let me clarify that I'm actually a Christian. However I believe in learning about different religions, so as to attain a greater knowledge about the world around me . I understand that in Singapore at least, Buddhism has some kind of 'alliance' with Taoism, leading to related pantheon and shared traditions, one of which is the burning of Hell assets.
Recently I accompanied my Buddhist aunts to the crematorium to help out with the physical side of all the rituals. They mentioned how they are gonna burn a car and TRILLIONS of dollars worth of hell money, and that my deceased ancestors will surely be having a bitching party in hell.
So I thought, wow. Isn't that wonderful? But then I thought abit and it occured to me that everyone else was also burning their ancestors just as much if not more, because my family is average income.
Therefore, won't hell's economy be highly inflated? End up, those trillions of dollars is worth Sgd 100. The car maybe missing the engine because it was so cheap for a branded car.
I am worried. Can someone tell me how this works?
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You have a point there according to supply and demand of economics.
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So my ancestors are not having as good a afterlife as my aunts think? When I asked them they were also kind of stumped and just assumed that things work out somehow. But I would like to have more opinions from Buddhists
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makes sense....I'm waiting here for a reply as well
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Originally posted by Sinphoniq:
Hi. Before I start, let me clarify that I'm actually a Christian. However I believe in learning about different religions, so as to attain a greater knowledge about the world around me . I understand that in Singapore at least, Buddhism has some kind of 'alliance' with Taoism, leading to related pantheon and shared traditions, one of which is the burning of Hell assets.
Recently I accompanied my Buddhist aunts to the crematorium to help out with the physical side of all the rituals. They mentioned how they are gonna burn a car and TRILLIONS of dollars worth of hell money, and that my deceased ancestors will surely be having a bitching party in hell.
So I thought, wow. Isn't that wonderful? But then I thought abit and it occured to me that everyone else was also burning their ancestors just as much if not more, because my family is average income.
Therefore, won't hell's economy be highly inflated? End up, those trillions of dollars is worth Sgd 100. The car maybe missing the engine because it was so cheap for a branded car.
I am worried. Can someone tell me how this works?
If one look into any Buddhist sutras, be it on the subject of ancestor worship, filial piety or the transference of merits, one would not be able to find any instructions regarding the offering of hell banknotes or any other representation of worldly material goods as offering to a deceased persons. What you have described above are just typical local Chinese traditional practices and customs that are passed down from one generation to another. Hell banknotes and all these other so called ‘hell assets’ are just nothing more than innovation of shrewd businessmen to cater to the needs of those who practice such Chinese customs. But it does serve the purposes of giving a person a sense that he/she still remembers a dearly departed one which is what Ching Ming is all about to the more traditional Chinese rather than the western tradition of laying flowers on a deceased person grave on their death anniversary. Take your chose.
Buddhism does not have any kind of ‘alliance’ with Taoism. It is a religion that is very tolerant of other people’s believes and practices. Buddhists believe in the six states of existence whether in the mental sense or in term of time and space. The whole of the Taoist pantheon of gods and demons can easily fit into these realms of existence without contradicting the Buddhist teaching. If the believers of other faiths find that certain deities in the Buddhist Mahayanist pantheon suit their needs, they are always welcome to adopt it into their religious beliefs as well. Buddhism is not a religion of commandments but of precepts. What is briefly stated here are just Buddhist take of the external world. If you are into finding your personal salvation, it is another matter altogether.
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I think you're confused and so are many others. I'm atheist but my parents are taoists so let me explain. In buddhism, there is only the buddha and bodhisattva. They believe in reincarnation and whether you're rich in your next life depends on your karma. They don't believe in burning money at all. A lot of the older singaporeans are taoists, not buddhists. Taoism believes in both taoist gods (chinese deities) and buddhas. In other words, buddhism doesn't include taosim while taoism includes buddhism. Burning money is the belief of taoists only. I think people always get confused because of ancient chinese tao shows. Shows like "journey to the west," where there is the monkey god and Buddha So to answer your question, nope, there is no alliance. If they include buddha, jesus, allah in their religion along with the other chinese gods they worship, it's still taoism and not an alliance since Buddhists, Christians and Muslims don't believe in taoist gods.
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I am also a traditional Chinese and proud of my heritage. During this period of remembrance to my ancestors which falls on the 5th of this month, I will still visit my deceased parents graves with my children, offer them the foods they always loved, light the candles and the three incense sticks and wish them 'Be well and happy wherever they may be'. Hopefully, this kind of tradition and simple ritual will still be carried on by my kids in future.
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Other than sending Hell Bank Notes by burning to the Dead,
Hell Bank Notes can be also sent to People who are still alive to curse them.
Some examples:
1) When someone or people who have wronged You and You want to seek revenge, You can't use knife (will be hanged by law or put in prison) to kill him but yet You want to do damage on Him. You can use black magic , or get ghosts to disturb them but You either need to engage a Taoist Sorcerer or Bomoh. What You can do is to send the person "Hell Bank Notes" to his/her house.
2) Keep Hell Bank Notes in Wallet/Purse or Bag. When You are being rob, You can pull out the Hell Bank Notes... which some designs can look so much like Singapore Dollars, US Dollars , China Yens.
3) In other Countries, shops are often robbed.. therefore keeping one side of Hell Bank Notes can come in handy. When robbers come in and ask You put cash into the bag..... You put tons of "Notes" into the bag... and the robbers run away with the Notes.
There are times when You are wrongfully accused of things You do not do... example... molest or stealing or whatever.... then You waste so much time in police station to explain and after few months , Your case close... and You wasted so much time.
Revenge is very important but You wish to kill the person or the group of people... but Law don't permit You to kill... therefore the best way is use ghosts or just Send Hell Bank Notes.
Hell Bank Notes are best sent during their Important Festive Season, example Chinese New Year, Hari Raya and Divapali.
More on Hell Bank Notes >> http://prankmaster-international.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by Aik TC:
I am also a traditional Chinese and proud of my heritage. During this period of remembrance to my ancestors which falls on the 5th of this month, I will still visit my deceased parents graves with my children, offer them the foods they always loved, light the candles and the three incense sticks and wish them 'Be well and happy wherever they may be'. Hopefully, this kind of tradition and simple ritual will still be carried on by my kids in future.
What purpose do the incense sticks serve? Is it symbolic of something? And isn't Qing ming a taoist thing?
I'm also gonna attend qing ming, just to help out because I know they're gonna do the whole paper burning thing again.
And I should probably look for a Taoist forum if I wanna get more insight into how hell's economy works huh? -
Originally posted by sunny_jialing_day:
I think you’re confused and so are many others. I’m atheist but my parents are taoists so let me explain. In buddhism, there is only the buddha and bodhisattva. They believe in reincarnation and whether you’re rich in your next life depends on your karma. They don’t believe in burning money at all. A lot of the older singaporeans are taoists, not buddhists. Taoism believes in both taoist gods (chinese deities) and buddhas. In other words, buddhism doesn’t include taosim while taoism includes buddhism. Burning money is the belief of taoists only. I think people always get confused because of ancient chinese tao shows. Shows like “journey to the west,” where there is the monkey god and Buddha
So to answer your question, nope, there is no alliance.
If they include buddha, jesus, allah in their religion along with the other chinese gods they worship, it’s still taoism and not an alliance since Buddhists, Christians and Muslims don’t believe in taoist gods.
Haha you're right I am confused, so I gather that my relatives are actually misguided Taoists?
It's really odd because I quite like buddhism, thus I read alot about it. And then I see hundreds of these self proclaimed buddhists taking part in hungry ghost festival etc etc.
Which I believe is a Taoist thing? Because theres no such thing as a 1 month holiday in Buddhist Naraka.
And yeah journey to the west definitely played some part in my misunderstanding. I grew up watching sun wukong beating the crap out of the entire heavenly court, only to be defeated by a high five from Gautama Buddha. I love that show, interesting that Taoists believe it as part of their heavenly history. -
To find real Taoists and Taoist Masters to answer Your question,
You may go to http://sintua.com.sg
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Originally posted by Sinphoniq:
What purpose do the incense sticks serve? Is it symbolic of something? And isn't Qing ming a taoist thing?
I'm also gonna attend qing ming, just to help out because I know they're gonna do the whole paper burning thing again.
And I should probably look for a Taoist forum if I wanna get more insight into how hell's economy works huh?There are many intended use of incense sticks. Depending on the individuals, it could be used as a form of sacrificial offering, a way to convey wishes, prayers to the one it is directed to. In Buddhism, it is also used as a way to purify the surrounding area. Other religions do used them for physical item and spiritual cleansing purposes.
Ching Ming is observed by Chinese Buddhists, Taoists and those who are followers of Chinese folk religions. It is for the purpose of doing offering and paying their respect to departed ancestors and relatives.
As the Buddhists do not believe in burning those trillions and material hell assets to deceased persons, how hell economy works (which is highly speculative) is a non-issue to the Buddhists. You can try some Taoist forum sites for their takes on this subject.
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Originally posted by Super.kumantong:
To find real Taoists and Taoist Masters to answer Your question,
You may go to http://sintua.com.sg
Brilliant. If anyone still got any opinions, or are knowledgeable on Taoism, feel free to just reply here anyway.
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Originally posted by Aik TC:
There are many intended use of incense sticks. Depending on the individuals, it could be used as a form of sacrificial offering, a way to convey wishes, prayers to the one it is directed to. In Buddhism, it is also used as a way to purify the surrounding area. Other religions do used them for physical item and spiritual cleansing purposes.
Ching Ming is observed by Chinese Buddhists, Taoists and those who are followers of Chinese folk religions. It is for the purpose of doing offering and paying their respect to departed ancestors and relatives.
As the Buddhists do not believe in burning those trillions and material hell assets to deceased persons, how hell economy works (which is highly speculative) is a non-issue to the Buddhists. You can try some Taoist forum sites for their takes on this subject.
Thx alot for telling me man.
Christians also use incense during prayers. The smoke from our incense pots are symbolic of prayers floating up to heaven.
Technically the smoke doesn't do anything of course, we just like our ritual symbolism. -
Yeap a lot of people in Singapore, Taiwan and HK who call themselves buddhists are actually taoists. They're confused too xD The tibetans and indian buddhists are buddhists. Chinese think they're buddhists because when you go to taoist temples, there are buddha statues too. I would think that taoism got influenced by buddhism in 68AD. As India is just beside China, Buddhism spread over when the silk road was opened. Anyway, I find it amusing that Chinese believe in taoism where the gods are chinese (er lang deity, chang e, sun wu kong etc). Indians believe in hinduism or buddhism where god is indian (vishnu, krishna...). Caucasians believe that Jesus is caucasian (you can tell from the names, joseph, mary, etc) and Arabians in Allah. It seems that god appears to certain race only and religion depended on your geographic location xDOriginally posted by Sinphoniq:
Haha you're right I am confused, so I gather that my relatives are actually misguided Taoists?
It's really odd because I quite like buddhism, thus I read alot about it. And then I see hundreds of these self proclaimed buddhists taking part in hungry ghost festival etc etc.
Which I believe is a Taoist thing? Because theres no such thing as a 1 month holiday in Buddhist Naraka.
And yeah journey to the west definitely played some part in my misunderstanding. I grew up watching sun wukong beating the crap out of the entire heavenly court, only to be defeated by a high five from Gautama Buddha. I love that show, interesting that Taoists believe it as part of their heavenly history.
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It is only an alliance when both believe in each other's religion. Like protestants and catholics, they both believe that Jesus, Mary and other characters in the bible exists. Sunni and Shi'a muslims believe in the same god too, their difference is who the successor of Muhammad is. As for buddhists and taoists, it's only taoism that included buddha among the hundreds of gods they worship. Buddhists don't believe in the existence of taoist gods and don't share similar beliefs.
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Originally posted by sunny_jialing_day:
Yeap a lot of people in Singapore, Taiwan and HK who call themselves buddhists are actually taoists. They're confused too xD The tibetans and indian buddhists are buddhists. Chinese think they're buddhists because when you go to taoist temples, there are buddha statues too. I would think that taoism got influenced by buddhism in 68AD. As India is just beside China, Buddhism spread over when the silk road was opened. Anyway, I find it amusing that Chinese believe in taoism where the gods are chinese (er lang deity, chang e, sun wu kong etc). Indians believe in hinduism or buddhism where god is indian (vishnu, krishna...). Caucasians believe that Jesus is caucasian (you can tell from the names, joseph, mary, etc) and Arabians in Allah. It seems that god appears to certain race only and religion depended on your geographic location xD
Haha, so many confused devotees. Shouldn't the Taoists put some effort into keeping their doctrine pure? Maybe make a organization like the Vatican to standardize everything.
But regarding abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam, names such as "Joseph", are actually an english translation of Hebrew names, in this case "Yosef". In Islam, the same guy is called "Yusof" , an Arabic translation.
But yeah, American visualization of Jesus nearly always has him looking caucasian, when he should actually be much more tan. More damning is when they put ang moh Jesus with normal, darker skinned Israelis. Can't Jesus not be a white guy? -.-" -
Originally posted by Miranda:
It is only an alliance when both believe in each other's religion. Like protestants and catholics, they both believe that Jesus, Mary and other characters in the bible exists. Sunni and Shi'a muslims believe in the same god too, their difference is who the successor of Muhammad is. As for buddhists and taoists, it's only taoism that included buddha among the hundreds of gods they worship. Buddhists don't believe in the existence of taoist gods and don't share similar beliefs.
I use the word alliance very loosely, because as we know there are a large community of people who have merged the two religions. Some Taoists believe that Buddha is also part of their pantheon. The Chinese deities see Buddha as the wise guy living nearby, who can sometimes help with their problems.
The same Taoists also tend to call themselves Buddhists, as I have learnt today.
Something like how Islam claims to believe in the bible, having been based off Christianity, like a sequel. Yet they ignore some very important bits of it. But that's an argument best reserved for a Islam forum. -
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no1a.htm Feature Ullambana Dharma - not Festival of Hungry Ghosts By Venerable Shen-Kai According to a popular Chinese superstition, ghosts are released from hell in the 7th month of the Chinese calendar for a one-month break in the human world. In order to appease them, animals are slaughtered and offered to these 'hungry ghosts', together with other food. Big feasts and other festivities are held during this month and the most 'auspicious day' is the 15th day of the month. It is so widespread that this yearly affair is dubbed the Month or Festival of the Hungry Ghosts. What is this all about? ... Among the chief disciples of the Buddha was one named Maudgalyayana. He had immense supernatural powers: Deva-foot ubiquity which made it possible for him to appear at any place at will, the divine sight of Deva-eye to have unlimited vision of all things, large and small, near and distant; Deva-ear to hear all sounds regardless of the distance. Furthermore, he had the ability to read and understand whatever was in a person's mind. He also had the ability to see clearly the events that occurred in a person's many past lives aeons ago. Thus, Maudgalyayana is considered to be a Maha-Bodhisattva who is foremost in supernatural powers. One day, his Deva-eye saw that his deceased mother had transmigrated to the realm of the hungry ghost. Her stomach was enlarged and she had tiny limbs. Her throat was as small as the eye of a needle, and as a result, it was impossible for her to eat any food or even to swallow a drop of water. Maudgalyayana could not bear the sight of his mother in such an extreme state of suffering. He immediately filled his alms bowl with food and with the immense power that he possessed, he sent it to his mother. However, she could not have the food because each time it turned into charcoal before she could put it in her mouth. It hurt Maudgalyayana to see what was happening and because of his strong emotion for his mother, it hindered his ability to see the karma that she had committed in her past lives. He went to Buddha for advice. The Buddha closed his eyes and entered into pure contemplation. With great compassion and gentleness, he said: "Maudgalyayana, your mother did not believe in the retributions arising from the law of cause and effect. She committed many evil deeds. She dishonoured the Buddha and insulted the Sangha [1], had no respect for the Three Treasures (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha), was greedy, filled with hatred, ignorant and arrogant. She was a wicked person who committed many evils, and she teased others giving them no peace. Therefore, she is suffering such a bitter consequence. Even though you are her son and your filial piety touches the heavens, these are still not able to save a person who had committed such serious evil karma." On hearing this, Maudgalyayana wept in pain. Notes 1.Sangha The corporate assembly of at least 3 monks; in general the term has come to mean a monk, or monks. 2.Bodhi From budh; knowledge, understanding; perfect wisdom; the illuminated or enlightened mind. The Buddha continued to console him, "It is impossible to rely solely on your own effort to save your mother from the realm of the hungry ghost. The only way is to use the combined merits of the Sangha. The 15th day of the 7th month of each year is designated "Buddha's Joy Day". This is the last day of the Sangha's summer retreat, and because of the purity with which the Sangha observed the precepts and practised cultivation, many attain the Bodhi [2]. The merits that they accumulate are immense beyond imagination, and the Buddha is most delighted. If you make an offering to these Sangha during this time, you can liberate your deceased parents and relatives from the suffering of the three evil realms (realms of animal, hungry ghost and hell) through their immense merits. If the parents are still living, then they shall be blessed with good health, happiness and a life of abundance. This is the truly marvellous method of giving salvation to the deceased." Maudgalyayana was delighted to hear this, and carried out the Buddha's advice accordingly. Thus, on the 15th of the 7th month after the offering to the Sangha, Maudgalyayana's mother was liberated from the suffering of the realm of the hungry ghost. To give offering to the Sangha in this way is called the 'Ullambana' method. After Maudgalyayana received the benefits from this Dharma, he was very grateful to the Buddha and praised the merits of the Three Treasures. He advised people to promote the 'Ullambana Dharma'. This day, the 15th of the 7th month, can also be considered an occasion to express our gratitude and filial piety to our parents and ancestors. Unfortunately, the passage of time saw a gradual erosion in its understanding and purpose, so much so that this special occasion is not performed in accordance to the Dharma. Today, this auspicious celebration has become a day of widespread slaughter of animals to be used as offering to the hungry ghosts. The original act of performing offerings to the Sangha has become a day for feasting and making offerings to the hungry ghosts, often referred to as 'to invite the good brothers to a feast'. These practices are not only against the compassion of the Buddha, but also a let down to Maudgalyayana who had advised the world to be filial and to perform good deeds. When we refrain from killing and protect all lives, we actually accumulate the merit of longevity and good health. It is meaningless to kill other living beings and offer them to the ghost, because they cannot benefit from these at all. Instead, those who kill shall have to repay for their action by suffering endlessly in hell. Unless we put an end to all forms of killing, the world forever shall not have peace. If the tradition of offering to the ghosts and the deceased on this day cannot be changed, the least we could do is to replace the slaughter and offer of meat with vegetarian food, flowers or fruits. It does not matter if we are not able to make offerings to the Sangha on this day, but at least we could invite them to chant the sutra for the purpose of liberating the deceased. In this way, it benefits both the living and the deceased. Â
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Common Buddhist Misunderstandings -Yin Shun
actually, Buddhism don't practice this, i mean in the olden days of Buddha, paper were not even invented!
if i recall from Master Shen Kai's Q&A: the origination of paper burning was by a man producing raw paper to be sold. his brother also produce paper and make a lot of money. but the man lose money. then oneday his wife got so depress(?) that she die. the man was very upset and since the raw paper is not selling, he burned them. and a strange thing happen, the wife who was in the coffin woke up!
people though the hell king after 'recieving' the burn paper return his wife. as time goes by, they got this believe.ps: and i wouldn't push all the blame/superstitions to the original "Taoism/Taoists".
as i don't think Lao Zi ever taught burning paper money either. these practices are all from modern intervention.
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Ya, I'm not blaming them. But sad lah see all these people following but not realizing they're doing it wrong.
It like, imagine. U think u are eating some wonderful premium abalone. U tell everyone u are eating abalone for rich ppl. But actually it's a fake abalone n u didn't know... :( -
It would be far better to help the deceased with creation of merits such as recitation of sutras, mantras, Jangchog-ceremonies (to cross-over the deceased), phowa practices, offerings to Sangha, lamp offerings etc. As the deceaseds' consciousnesses are mostly in great confusion and suffering at this point of time especially if they had not done any form of spiritual training when they were alive.