Hello all - I was wondering if enlightened beings, such as Buddha, still feel physical pain. And if they do, how do they endure it especially severe pain such as an excrutiating toothache or cancer? Thanks in advance for your reply.
Yes Buddha feels physical pain, but not mental suffering.
He said:
"An untaught worldling, O monks, experiences pleasant feelings, he
experiences painful feelings and he experiences neutral feelings. A
well-taught noble disciple likewise experiences pleasant, painful and
neutral feelings. Now what is the distinction, the diversity, the
difference that exists herein between a well-taught noble disciple and
an untaught worldling?
"When an untaught worldling is touched by a
painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his
breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of
feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced
by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart.
So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts. It is
similar with an untaught worldling: when touched by a painful (bodily)
feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and
is distraught. So he experiences two kinds of feeling: a bodily and a
mental feeling.
"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he
resists (and resents) it. Then in him who so resists (and resents) that
painful feeling, an underlying tendency of resistance against that
painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that
painful feeling he then proceeds to enjoy sensual happiness. And why
does he do so? An untaught worldling, O monks, does not know of any
other escape from painful feelings except the enjoyment of sensual
happiness. Then in him who enjoys sensual happiness, an underlying
tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He
does not know, according to facts, the arising and ending of these
feelings, nor the gratification, the danger and the escape, connected
with these feelings. In him who lacks that knowledge, an underlying
tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his
mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a
neutral feeling, he feels it as one fettered by it. Such a one, O monks,
is called an untaught worldling who is fettered by birth, by old age,
by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is
fettered by suffering, this I declare.
"But in the case of a
well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful
feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his
breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he
experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man
were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the
first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart
only. It is similar with a well-taught noble disciple: when touched by a
painful feeling, he will no worry nor grieve and lament, he will not
beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. He experiences one
single feeling, a bodily one.
"Having been touched by that
painful feeling, he does not resist (and resent) it. Hence, in him no
underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to
underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he does
not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness. And why not? As a well-taught
noble disciple he knows of an escape from painful feelings other than by
enjoying sensual happiness. Then in him who does not proceed to enjoy
sensual happiness, no underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings
comes to underlie (his mind). He knows, according to facts, the arising
and ending of those feelings, and the gratification, the danger and the
escape connected with these feelings. In him who knows thus, no
underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to
underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful
feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one who is not fettered by
it. Such a one, O monks, is called a well-taught noble disciple who is
not fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation,
pain, grief and despair. He is not fettered to suffering, this I
declare.
thank you for your reply. i've read that some enlightened beings in the past went through their final years in great physical pain without a single moan and groan, as if they did not feel anything. how did they do that?
Originally posted by allkosong:thank you for your reply. i've read that some enlightened beings in the past went through their final years in great physical pain without a single moan and groan, as if they did not feel anything. how did they do that?
Hi, just my opinion. It is possible to go through the end without any pain or suffering if one has returned all or most of the karmic debts and also with great merits and blessings of a teacher. This may be so even for an unenlightened person. But such cases are rare.
i read on Rinchen Dorjee Rinpoche's website that there was one disciple of his who passed away recently without any suffering at all in spite of having cancer cells spread throughout his body. He experienced cancer without any pain for the last part of his life. This was due to his strong faith in his teacher and great merits. He has taken birth in Amitabha pureland in the highest grade.
For the case of enlightened people, there are many varieties. But i have also read or heard of quite many cases, there is no suffering. They pass away at will. Total freedom.
There are many interpretations about that.
It is sometimes taken that someone who attained Buddhahood cannot truly have any residual karma. That goes against the definition of Buddha. For them, manifestations of sicknesses are merely for the sake of benefitting others, whether to teach or in some other way.
Someone like 16th Karmapa, he manifested many sicknesses of different varieties with no connection one after another just before he died in America. His vital signs often went to a very critical stage before reversing miraculously. All the time, he was seemingly unaffected and cheerful. His doctors and care-takers were completely taken aback. These sicknesses were due to him taking on the karma of other beings. After he passed away, it is said that cures for some sicknesses (that he manifested?) were 'coincidentally' found. His doctor was so affected that he wrote an article on this and i think developed a strong interest in spirituality after that.
Someone did mention to me from personal experience that it was part of the process of practice and possible that karma is cleared up to the extent that it is impossible to become sick anymore. Unless they wished to benefit others. In which case, for the great bodhisattvas, there is no difference between pain and happiness. They are able to undertake the empty appearance of sickness with equanimity to relieve the sufferings of others.
Excruciating pain like cancer...wondering cancer patients would feel pain while in sleep.