Basic buddhist concepts analysed in a Christian website
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
1. Yes, defending Christianity does take some effort. Usually that is so because most critics of Christianity know little about what they criticise.
2. What do you mean by loop holes in the Bible.
3. Sure, anyone with the money can come up with their own version of the Bible, but what's this point supposed to prove about the Bible?
4. God created man in His image, simply means that humans reflect God in SOME ways, not in every aspect. It is not that God is like man, but man is like God.
5. Certainly God can make man do His bidding. But then you won't be man, but robot. What kind of meaningful reciprocal relationship is there? And indeed none of redemption history was for fun. God is not a capricious God.
6. If you have read the Bible you would know that those who are in Christ i.e. the church is God's dwelling place. God lives in us since we are the spiritual temple, to those who believe in Him and trust in Him. That's the God revealed, not some distant aloof being, but One who dwells in His people. Transcendent yet immanent.
1. your mother and father mate, give birth to you.
2. you grow up blending in to the world and the environemnt you live in.
3. you get hungry you need to eat and slee. when there are fulfiled you look for other things to make you more entertained.
4. you work to make money, an exchange for for and necessity, services.
5. spare time you pick up a hobby, a start family, canrry on the bloodline.
6. spare time you socialize, pick up a realigion
7. in religion most of the time there is an example an entity to follow.
... so god is just one of the entity empty sould created. nothintg more nothing less.
cannot handle my languge? face me like a real man not hiding behind your god like a p..wussy
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loop hole? not going to say much as there r enough said on the net. diiferent ver of bible? isnt it obvious...where is the credibility when there r so many ver? putting bible a side since it is nothing more than a bedtime story book u r not addressing the fundamental of the Q...wat is the purpose of god creating human, letting them go astray, then give then chance to be gd boy again...n how did you know tat God created man in His image...if god created all the entities then y he only dwell in those who believed in him y not all. so again if god is omnipotent y he didnt he stop the serpent from tricking adam n eve???
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Then accordingly to you beliefs, Man as a creation is flawed, either by default or design. Also, the presence or belief in god is not essential nor providing a moral compass, I do not believe I am alone.Originally posted by BroInChrist:
1. In the Bible it is not self, or the clinging to it, that cause suffering. It is sin i.e. rebellion against God, that causes suffering. Had Adam and Eve obeyed God rather than the serpent there would have been no suffering and death. Other than God who is independent and necessary, all of creation is contingent, dependent on many things, ultimately dependent upon God's upholding of the creation. That does not negate self, but only points to the fact that apart from God, nothing can exists, not even life.
2. Our self shares similarities with the shadows only in the sense that both are contingent, dependent arising as you say. But just because we are contingent beings it does not mean that such are illusory or even likened to being illusory. Illusory means illusion, not real. Things that are contingent or temporary are not necessarily illusory. You can say that man is made up of 5 aggregates, I can say that man is made up of many "parts". But the question is, who created man or designed man to function as he does? Again, creation presupposes an intelligent Mind.
3. You are right to say that software and hardware are created by humans. This points to intelligent design. Same with humans. We are specially designed to function the way we do, and this points to a being of supreme intelligence, God. Life exists not because the conditions are right, but because God created life. Having the right conditions for life is necessary but not sufficient. A dead body have all the necessary ingredients for life, but it is dead. God breathed into Adam and he became "nephesh Chayah", a living soul.
4. The point about monsters under the bed is that there is such a thing as objective truth. If there are none under the bed, then the belief that there is must be false.
5. I understand that Buddhism is about no self, I just find that this idea is incoherent and inconsistent in so many ways and run counter to daily experience. It is like saying that there is no such thing as language or logic, one would have to presuppose them to even deny them!
6. The past is not infinite simply because time has a beginning. While a beginning must have a cause, what has begun may or may not have an end. We do not have now if there was no past. To understand now we need information about the past, otherwise we only work with incomplete knowledge and may apply wrong solution.
7. Suffering comes when Adam wilfully ignored God's command and disobeyed God by eating from the forbidden tree. The Bible does not teach that man is ignorant, but that man is in rebellion against his Creator.
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2. No, self or self image of man(yourself) is sum of the different sense consciousness. The origin of one life is a continuation of another life/lives. I do not see the presence of intelligent design. But then, I do not see through lenses of infatuated eyes.
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3. Computer is simply assembly of parts, created to be man extension, thats intelligent design! The human soul is "nepesh chayah" is'nt it? So all a dead body needs is nepesh chayah to revive it you mean! Life is constantly being witnessed to be produced from another life form but have not seen any creation by god lately. Life has always been perpetuated from another lifeform since time immemorial.
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3. Computer is simply assembly of parts, created to be man extension, thats intelligent design! The human soul is "nepesh chayah" is'nt it? So all a dead body needs is nepesh chayah to revive it you mean! Life is constantly being witnessed to be produced from another life form but have not seen any creation by god lately. Life has always been perpetuated from another lifeform since time immemorial.
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4. Proof of existence is the same. Otherwise it is just a belief.
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6. I understand you predicament and my sympathies are with you! That's why the skandas is a referred as "lump" or "heap". However, you are not alone. Self do not exist outside of mind. Mind is a construct of senses and volitional consciousness inherent to human lifeform.
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7. Time in our human sense begins when consciousness or concept of time begins, past, present, future. The only real time is present, the rest is a projection of mind, easily embellished.
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Broinchrist is back.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
1. Christianity does not teach about a permanent self. Or a nonexistent self for that matter. The Bible teaches that there is a God who created everything, including humans in His image. Every human being is a distinct and unique person. So there is a you, me, him, her, to speak of in real terms. All creation is contingent, having no existence apart from God who always existed. The Bible does not mention about permanence. It does mention about things eternal, things immortal. The universe is not permanent or eternal. But God can sustain it forever if He so chooses to.
2. The Bible speaks of the present heavens and earth passing away with a big bang. Ironically this big bang is something coming, not something that has happened 14 billion years ago. The present universe is observed to be expanding still, and the Bible speaks about God stretching out the heavens. Hmmm....
3. Man sinned against God and the whole creation was cursed. Sin affects everything. Death entered the world, the whole of creation groans as taught in the epistle of Romans. If you kill someone, it's not just you and the dead person, it's more than that.
4. I do not quite get your point about only the intelligent designer can question the human intelligence. Can you clarify that part? Why would the existence of God makes you feel regrettable about anything?
5. The Bible says God created man in His image but does not tell us explicitly why. But if I may offer my opinions, it would be so that we can have fellowhip with Him. Animals are not created in God's image, thus they do not worship God or have any personal relationship with God. Whether Ang Moh or Black or White, we are all human beings, descended from Adam and Eve. Our so-called racial differences are only skin deep. Do you know that we are all of one blood? We are of the same human race. We are of the same mankind. We are of the same colour, just different shades of the same pigment melanin. The more you have the darker you are. Race has NO biological meaning, it is entirely a social construct, and one that cause no small amount of misery and division.
6. God created Adam and Eve perfect, innocent, without sin. But God also endowed Adam with free will. It was the wrong choice and action that led to Adam's fall from perfection. Nothing is wrong with God at all.
7. What happens to a good person? Does he go to hell? Well, what do you mean by a good person to begin with? Good in terms of what? Compared to what? Whose standard of goodness are you using to call someone good? Yours, Hitler, Mother Teresa, or God Himself? You need an absolute yardstick of morality. Being morally good is not good enough, you need to be morally PERFECT, just like God is.
8. You said your questions have nothing to do with God but only interpretation. I don't see how that is so. In any case, God is the subject and undergirds the Christian answer. Even if you think my interpretation is incorrect, you have to show that your interpretation is correct.
10. Why I choose Christianity? Well, I became a Christian at a young age. But through the years as I study and learn about my faith (and others) I see that the Christian worldview is the only true worldview. This may not be politically correct to say, but I believe it.
11. I am in this forum to exchange views, and in the process to correct wrong views about Christianity that Buddhists may have. And I hope that I have conducted myself well so far and have been cordial and polite. In the process I am also corrected on my wrong views concerning Buddhism. I will be frank to say upfront that I believe many teachings of Buddhism are false, and I believe you will also say that many teachings of Christianity are false too. But such need not cause offense at all. It is only logical that two contradictory teachings on a given subject cannot be both true at the same time and in the same sense.
12. You need to make the right distinction between contingent and necessary beings. The entire creation is contingent, it does not have existence apart from God calling it into existence. It is not permanent or eternal unless God decides it to be so. All observed phenomena that we observe is contingent upon God's sustaining power. God sets the laws of nature in place. If He withholds His hand then everything will fall apart.
13. In the Bible there is lots of suffering, so what makes you say that you will become a Christian if God will end your suffering? Even Christ suffered. Just to end suffering is a very myopic view of life. Life is more than just trying to end suffering. In this world there will be tribulation because this is a fallen world. But God promises to restore all things.
14. To ask me not to use God to answer your questions is like to ask the soldier to lay down his weapons in fighting the enemy. If I do not use God or the Bible, then what do I use? My opinions? They count for nothing. But God's Word is infallible and trustworthy. It is not a convenient answer, that would be an insult and mocking my efforts and time in answering the questions here, but I believe they are true answers that explains what needs explaining.
After reading your replies, I have to accept what you said. I don't want to comment anything about God. I felt outsiders will think I'm not showing respect.
All the questions I asked points at how people interpret their God. Practically speaking, you think what God is and you say God is everything. I have no choice but to end further discussions.
Pardon me being straightforward, what you said is sound contradictory. For example, in 1, you said self is not permanent... i thought all along self is permanent in Christianity... then suddenly now it changed there is no permanent self because the Bible say so.
In the earlier post you said the universe has a beginning, but when i pose the question of permanence in my previous post, you said God sustains it. Then my question of whether permanence is valid or not becomes side-tracked. Conveniently.
I mentioned that it is the wisdom of our ancestors that provide what we have today. Otherwise i think we don't even know how to grow rice. But you attributed the wisdom or intelligence to the God you mentioned. The counter-question you asked makes me wonder what you mean, arguing back again why i felt regrettable.
If I were to tell my friends about this, they will think you damn ungrateful lot
The question you asked: how good is good? I really don't how to reply. Is good quantitative...? Measurable or comparable..? Or even perfect?
You have been cordial, but the replies shows that you don't understand and tries to put God in the front picture, leaving us no alternatives.
I got a sense of ill-will from you when i read the last paragraph. Describing yourself as a soldier to lay down the weapon and fight the enemies.Anyway.... that's not the main point. I have already mentioned debating fundamental difference in religions is pointless (in fact, very early in this thread). No matter how much you bring in Christian concepts is wasting your time and effort here. You can't bring in Christian values to question emptiness, karma etc etc.... It doesn't fit!
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Originally posted by SJS6638:
Broinchrist is back.
and the fun begins...
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At this rate our forum will soon be the top few in sgForums
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There is no end to religious discussion.
Espeically that of christianity .....................................
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8. Man, according to you is created in the likeness of God, and by God and through no other. Rebelliousness is therefore an aspect of God through no fault of man. Ever heard of forewarned is forearmed? It acknowledges lessons learned in hindsight. The practice of a Buddhist is vigilant, that we are mindful of now. Being mindful is taking the first step from ignorance. With each experience grounded in the present leads to unknotting the lump we call "Self". As "Self" is ever present in our consciousness, what better and available subject for our investigations.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
and the fun begins...
I have confidence in the formers in Buddhism Wisdom Bliss ............
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
At this rate our forum will soon be the top few in sgForums
wahahahha
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Believing in God is integral to a Christian's identity, especially pious ones. Devotees of other religon is no different. Only when one find kinks in perfection in one's devotion, disillusionment sets. There will be many more like him wandering in samsara. In the meantime, good practice for bodhisattva path, developing wisdom and compassion!Originally posted by 2009novice:
After reading your replies, I have to accept what you said. I don't want to comment anything about God. I felt outsiders will think I'm not showing respect.
All the questions I asked points at how people interpret their God. Practically speaking, you think what God is and you say God is everything. I have no choice but to end further discussions.
Pardon me being straightforward, what you said is sound contradictory. For example, in 1, you said self is not permanent... i thought all along self is permanent in Christianity... then suddenly now it changed there is no permanent self because the Bible say so.
In the earlier post you said the universe has a beginning, but when i pose the question of permanence in my previous post, you said God sustains it. Then my question of whether permanence is valid or not becomes side-tracked. Conveniently.
I mentioned that it is the wisdom of our ancestors that provide what we have today. Otherwise i think we don't even know how to grow rice. But you attributed the wisdom or intelligence to the God you mentioned. The counter-question you asked makes me wonder what you mean, arguing back again why i felt regrettable.
If I were to tell my friends about this, they will think you damn ungrateful lotThe question you asked: how good is good? I really don't how to reply. Is good quantitative...? Measurable or comparable..? Or even perfect?
You have been cordial, but the replies shows that you don't understand and tries to put God in the front picture, leaving us no alternatives.
I got a sense of ill-will from you when i read the last paragraph. Describing yourself as a soldier to lay down the weapon and fight the enemies.Anyway.... that's not the main point. I have already mentioned debating fundamental difference in religions is pointless (in fact, very early in this thread). No matter how much you bring in Christian concepts is wasting your time and effort here. You can't bring in Christian values to question emptiness, karma etc etc.... It doesn't fit!
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some ppl worship their god.
i worship my jio.
becasue jio though to people look 'funny', it contains potassium higher radioactive but tase delicious with natural sugars!
eat more green ones even better becasue the sugars more mild and can be digested at the small intestine instead of large intestine.
bornX should eat more such jio instead of everyda read those large comic books.
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Originally posted by Weychin:
8. Man, according to you is created in the likeness of God, and by God and through no other. Rebelliousness is therefore an aspect of God through no fault of man.
Ever heard of forewarned is forearmed? It acknowledges lessons learned in hindsight. The practice of a Buddhist is vigilant, that we are mindful of now. Being mindful is taking the first step from ignorance. With each experience grounded in the present leads to unknotting the lump we call “Self”. As “Self” is ever present in our consciousness, what better and available subject for our investigations.It does not follow logically that because man is created in God's image, that therefore rebellion is an aspect of God.
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Originally posted by Weychin:
Believing in God is integral to a Christian's identity, especially pious ones. Devotees of other religon is no different. Only when one find kinks in perfection in one's devotion, disillusionment sets. There will be many more like him wandering in samsara. In the meantime, good practice for bodhisattva path, developing wisdom and compassion!
As mentioned, the Bible says that even demons believe there is a God. So it is not just that belief in God is integral to a Christian's identity. Noted philosopher Sir Anthony Flew was an atheist for a large part of his life and debated many Christians and taught atheism, but came to a conclusion that there is a God when he was 82. He was NOT a Christian but believed in God, though such a belief did not save him.
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Originally posted by jlowbog:
loop hole? not going to say much as there r enough said on the net.
diiferent ver of bible? isnt it obvious…where is the credibility when there r so many ver?
putting bible a side since it is nothing more than a bedtime story book
u r not addressing the fundamental of the Q…wat is the purpose of god creating human, letting them go astray, then give then chance to be gd boy again…n how did you know tat God created man in His image…if god created all the entities then y he only dwell in those who believed in him y not all. so again if god is omnipotent y he didnt he stop the serpent from tricking adam n eve???1. I think the allegation against the Bible's credibility due to so-called different versions of the Bible is toothless when you also take into consideration the similar situation with regards to Buddhist texts. http://buddhism.about.com/od/sacredbuddhisttexts/a/buddhist-scriptures.htm Moreover, the charge is easier alleged than substantiated. What do you/critics really mean when they say the Bible has different versions? Do you understand what a Bible version is?
2. To denigrate the Bible as nothing more than a bedtime story book, you would need support the allegation that it is nothing more than a bedtime story book.
3. The Bible addresses many of the fundamental questions, perhaps the problem is your refusal to acknowledge or accept the answers? God created humans, and everything for that matter, according to His eternal purpose. You asked how I know God created man in His image. This can only be known if God chooses to tell us, which He did through the Bible. No human reasoning can come to this conclusion. The most humans can do is to say that you resemble a monkey, you were evolved in an ape's image. That doesn't do much for self-esteem, does it?
4. Why would you be offended that God would only dwell in those who believe in Him? It only makes sense that I enter the house if you open the door to me. Jesus said that He stood at the door and knock and will come in to those who open the door to Him.
5. Just because you can stop something from happening, and didn't, does negate your existence. Yet many critics somehow make this irrational argument that God's apparent "failure" to do this or that means He does not exist! God allows man to make decisions based on his free will. It is not as though Adam was a 3 year old baby who cannot discern anything. Yes, toddlers must be protected and parents should step right in before any mishap can happen. But now you are dealing with matured and functioning adults who can make the right choice.
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So is rebelliousness is by default or by design?Originally posted by BroInChrist:
It does not follow logically that because man is created in God's image, that therefore rebellion is an aspect of God.
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As long as one misidentify "Self" as permanent soul, it will not be unusual to identify a higher existence as "God". As each person's relationship and perception of God is different, as there are different levels of awareness. Each case is different. For example, even though I am not my dog's creator, to it I am God! I am not familiar with Sir Antony Flew so unable to relate to his opinions and views, and neither should he be the final arbiter in the existence of God.Originally posted by BroInChrist:
As mentioned, the Bible says that even demons believe there is a God. So it is not just that belief in God is integral to a Christian's identity. Noted philosopher Sir Anthony Flew was an atheist for a large part of his life and debated many Christians and taught atheism, but came to a conclusion that there is a God when he was 82. He was NOT a Christian but believed in God, though such a belief did not save him.
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Another example, sinweiy made allusion to your God as Mahabrahma, I see differently. You see, I take into account of the destructive violent propensites of your God, eg. the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God's jealousy,( exodus 20;5), and God's vanity, the seraphims, whose job is to sing praises of him! I tend to view to see your God as of tavatimsa / asuric realms, given the struggles with other Gods and Demons.