Do not believe what I've said without investigating wisely and deeply. Use ur intelligence,find out for urself. This is the Buddha's attitude of Ehi Passiko...come and see for urself!
E.g : I can tell u that an apple is really sweet and delicious for 3 hours but u won't know what it actually taste like until u urself try it. To blindly belief me that the apple is delicious is foolish.
Basic buddhist concepts analysed in a Christian website
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I beg to differ. Let me ask you then. Did the flag move? Did the wind move? Are you going to say no to both?
Buddha may be the teacher of "gods", but I think he needs to learn about the true God.
Loka Sutta: (Surveying) the World
this true god should already approached to Buddha if it really exist
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does BIC also debate his god to other gods like Hinduism or Islam too...?
why still want to argue god on buddhists...? Why....?
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The basic of Christianity is God.
The basic of Buddhism is Mind.
The differences is that God is far imaginary beyond from us. As the bible started with In the beginning God created heaven and earth. While in Buddhism, Mind is much closer to our very own heart. Most of us to not understand the true nature of our mind. The main teaching is to purified our mind from defilement and suffering. By nature, our mind is pure. Mind can be defile from attachment to material, craving, clinging, greed, hatred and delusion. Therefore, to free our mind or to purified our mind from all this defilement then one can be awaken from stress or suffering and reach enlightenment.
Mind is the foundation of all good and evil which arise within and befall on us without.
Mind precedes thing, dominate them and create them.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
does BIC also debate his god to other gods like Hinduism or Islam too...?
why still want to argue god on buddhists...? Why....?
I think he's used to the common practice in debate where one tries to win like a court case. BUT this is a forum. An avenue for discussion. A place to hear and be heard.
How can one keep arguing on something abstract? How to test/prove? Referring to his book as a main source doesn't hold any water for us at all.
Personally i think it's this very attitude that cause so much worldly problems. "I'm right, you're wrong". So much attachment to one's view.
I recommend a 10 day free vipassana retreat as taught by goenka www.dhamma.org
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Originally posted by zeus29:
I think he's used to the common practice in debate where one tries to win like a court case. BUT this is a forum. An avenue for discussion. A place to hear and be heard.
How can one keep arguing on something abstract? How to test/prove? Referring to his book as a main source doesn't hold any water for us at all.
Personally i think it's this very attitude that cause so much worldly problems. "I'm right, you're wrong". So much attachment to one's view.
I recommend a 10 day free vipassana retreat as taught by goenka www.dhamma.org
which is why i wrote that chinese saying... easy logic but hard to realise it.anyway a discussion involves hearing and being heard. Involves having a big heart to acknowledge many various viewpoints. It however doesn't involve the assertion of one/one's view. Which is why many a times, ppl dunno how to have to discussion. They merely thought they were discussing :)
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Hah, no is also not the answer. hint: people tend to only see the retrospect, but Neglect the Introspect. true god/mind IS about the Introspect. people tend to blame the outside world, but neglect the inner world.for example, when ur thing fell into a hole, and u cannot reached it, people tend to blame the hole is too deep, but never say why my hand is too short. some time the answer is inside us. finger pointing at the moon, don't just see the finger.
btw , in Buddhism, if a buddhist is like u, so clinging or obsessed with the dharma and start to discriminate or become bias in an extreme way, something like extremists, we can also call them a "hinayana", small vehicle, buddhism. they are too attached to the apparent buddhism but not the inner meaning of buddhism. they are like following next to Buddha, but in fact are far from Buddha. they do not see the real Buddha.
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Then what is the answer re the flag and the wind? Not this not that is not an answer either, that would be playing mind games! The issue here is that you have to demonstrate that the answer given is tantamount to looking at finger but not the moon.
Jesus said that He is the Truth. God's Word is Truth. The Truth will set you free. The notion of truth is also prevalent in Buddhism. You cannot afford to play fast and loose with truth. Because truth can be a matter of life and death. Truth by definition involves judgement and discrimination. We should judge what is true and discriminate truth from error. Would the Buddha himself disagree with this? You spoke about the inner meaning of Buddhism. What is it? Is it to be held closely or loosely?
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
Loka Sutta: (Surveying) the World
this true god should already approached to Buddha if it really exist
If the true God exists, then it should be the other way round. Think about it.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
does BIC also debate his god to other gods like Hinduism or Islam too...?
why still want to argue god on buddhists...? Why....?
Because this is erm...Buddhist forum?
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Originally posted by Bmax25:
The basic of Christianity is God.
The basic of Buddhism is Mind.
The differences is that God is far imaginary beyond from us. As the bible started with In the beginning God created heaven and earth. While in Buddhism, Mind is much closer to our very own heart. Most of us to not understand the true nature of our mind. The main teaching is to purified our mind from defilement and suffering. By nature, our mind is pure. Mind can be defile from attachment to material, craving, clinging, greed, hatred and delusion. Therefore, to free our mind or to purified our mind from all this defilement then one can be awaken from stress or suffering and reach enlightenment.
Mind is the foundation of all good and evil which arise within and befall on us without.
Mind precedes thing, dominate them and create them.
Purify whose mind? Our mind. Again the notion of self is inevitable. And you have not explained what is this true nature of the mind. Humans possess minds. We are conscious beings with minds. And this points to a greater divine Mind that created us, God. Indeed Mind precedes matter. When the Bible says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Hebrew merism to denote the entire universe) it speaks of mind preceding matter.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
If the true God exists, then it should be the other way round. Think about it.
but it didn't appear
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Because this is erm...Buddhist forum?
erm... since u say this is a buddhist forum, why you preach to buddhists here...?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Then what is the answer re the flag and the wind? Not this not that is not an answer either, that would be playing mind games! The issue here is that you have to demonstrate that the answer given is tantamount to looking at finger but not the moon.
Jesus said that He is the Truth. God's Word is Truth. The Truth will set you free. The notion of truth is also prevalent in Buddhism. You cannot afford to play fast and loose with truth. Because truth can be a matter of life and death. Truth by definition involves judgement and discrimination. We should judge what is true and discriminate truth from error. Would the Buddha himself disagree with this? You spoke about the inner meaning of Buddhism. What is it? Is it to be held closely or loosely?
there IS a clear answer to it. u have to find it out urself.
Buddhism have a different approach to truth. there's no much of blindly believe.
Initially, prajñÄ� is attained at a conceptual level by means of listening to sermons (dharma talks), reading, studying, and sometimes reciting Buddhist texts and engaging in discourse. Once the conceptual understanding is attained, it is applied to daily life so that each Buddhist can verify the truth of the Buddha's teaching at a practical level. Notably, one could in theory attain Nirvana at any point of practice, whether deep in meditation, listening to a sermon, conducting the business of one's daily life, or any other activity.
Extremists can also use the name of Truth to do sucide bombing btw. where is wisdom in truth? truth that lack wisdom is as good as no truth. in Buddhism wisdom/middle way is very important.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
but it didn't appear
Not true. The Bible teaches that the existence of God is seen in that which was made. And about 2000 years ago God became human in the person of Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
erm... since u say this is a buddhist forum, why you preach to buddhists here...?
Am I? I am not delivering a sermon here.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
there IS a clear answer to it. u have to find it out urself.
Buddhism have a different approach to truth. there's no much of blindly believe.
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Do not believe what I've said without investigating wisely and deeply. Use ur intelligence,find out for urself. This is the Buddha's attitude of Ehi Passiko...come and see for urself!
E.g : I can tell u that an apple is really sweet and delicious for 3 hours but u won't know what it actually taste like until u urself try it. To blindly belief me that the apple is delicious is foolish.
Initially, prajñÄ� is attained at a conceptual level by means of listening to sermons (dharma talks), reading, studying, and sometimes reciting Buddhist texts and engaging in discourse. Once the conceptual understanding is attained, it is applied to daily life so that each Buddhist can verify the truth of the Buddha's teaching at a practical level. Notably, one could in theory attain Nirvana at any point of practice, whether deep in meditation, listening to a sermon, conducting the business of one's daily life, or any other activity.
Extremists can also use the name of Truth to do sucide bombing btw. where is wisdom in truth? truth that lack wisdom is as good as no truth. in Buddhism wisdom/middle way is very important.
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Re the flag and the wind, I believe the answer has got to do with the mind, but this is not the proper answer to give at all. It is again more like playing mind games. It's like witnessing a car knocking down a jay-walker. Which is moving? My answer is both. Yours? The mind? So it did not happen at all?
How many approaches are there to truth anyway? You said not to blindly believe, but I am afraid you did not really walk the talk. There are truths that can be experienced and there are truths that can only be known cognitively. Yes, there is a sense in which the truth can be both cognitively grasped and also experienced. But trusting someone need not be seen as blindly believe, so long as one has a good reason for trusting.
Bringing in the issue of suicide bombers is a red herring.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Re the flag and the wind, I believe the answer has got to do with the mind, but this is not the proper answer to give at all. It is again more like playing mind games. It's like witnessing a car knocking down a jay-walker. Which is moving? My answer is both. Yours? The mind? So it did not happen at all?
How many approaches are there to truth anyway? You said not to blindly believe, but I am afraid you did not really walk the talk. There are truths that can be experienced and there are truths that can only be known cognitively. Yes, there is a sense in which the truth can be both cognitively grasped and also experienced. But trusting someone need not be seen as blindly believe, so long as one has a good reason for trusting.
Bringing in the issue of suicide bombers is a red herring.
re it had more profound meaning than a car knocking down a jay-walker which is still retrospect. like said, it's about introspect rather than retrospect. it's a form of wisdom in teaching.our approach also as mentioned is just about "seeing/testing for yourself is believing".
that's when i said, faith can be misused when one is too obsessed with one's religion, including Buddhism.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
re it had more profound meaning than a car knocking down a jay-walker which is still retrospect. like said, it's about introspect rather than retrospect. it's a form of wisdom in teaching.our approach also as mentioned is just about "seeing/testing for yourself is believing".
that's when i said, faith can be misused when one is too obsessed with one's religion, including Buddhism.
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What is the wisdom in teaching supposed to teach when you deny that it is the flag or wind that moves?
I have no problem with seeing or testing for yourself with regards to truth claims. The Bible tells us to do that.
I think the issue is not about obsession, misuse is not obsession. The problem is when people either understood the teaching wrongly, or the teaching is wrong to begin with.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Not true. The Bible teaches that the existence of God is seen in that which was made. And about 2000 years ago God became human in the person of Jesus Christ.
Noted.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Am I? I am not delivering a sermon here.
thanks.
then what is correct term for offering unsolicited views...?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
What is the wisdom in teaching supposed to teach when you deny that it is the flag or wind that moves?
I have no problem with seeing or testing for yourself with regards to truth claims. The Bible tells us to do that.
I think the issue is not about obsession, misuse is not obsession. The problem is when people either understood the teaching wrongly, or the teaching is wrong to begin with.
by obsession i mean too clinging to one's idea of truth.
wisdom, is when u cannot change the outside world to suit u, change your inner perspective. that say in chinese expression, 山�转路转，路�转人转，人�转心转 if the mountain cannot turn, the road can go around it. if the road cannot turn, move yourselves, if u cannot move around it, change ur view into letting it go. my translation might not be good but roughly. such wisdom is good to apply in daily life.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Re the flag and the wind, I believe the answer has got to do with the mind, but this is not the proper answer to give at all. It is again more like playing mind games. It's like witnessing a car knocking down a jay-walker. Which is moving? My answer is both. Yours? The mind? So it did not happen at all?
have to make this funny, lol
enlightenment is to turn around and see your own shortcoming.
Better to see one fault in oneself,
Than a thousand faults in others.
- Dhammapada
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