What is God? What is Buddha?
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqBMAPAi_0Y
You guys have got to watch this incredible and passionate teaching by a Buddhist teacher on how to become a better Buddhist, a better Christian and so forth. This teacher is honest, passionate and very practical and yet it is incredibly profound and deep. Please listen to it in full and share what you think about it.
-
Originally posted by Steveyboy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqBMAPAi_0Y
You guys have got to watch this incredible and passionate teaching by a Buddhist teacher on how to become a better Buddhist, a better Christian and so forth. This teacher is honest, passionate and very practical and yet it is incredibly profound and deep. Please listen to it in full and share what you think about it.
I watched it. The good take home point was that many people have used religion as a "give me" thing rather than a "change me" thing. In Christendom this would characterise the Prosperity Gospel preached by some of the big churches.
I do take issue with the point he made about the main difference between Buddhism and monotheistic religions. He said that monotheistic religions is about accept God and everything is well whereas Buddhism is about taking responsibility for one's actions, implying that in monotheistic religions individual responsibility is shirked.
I will not comment much on Judaism and Islam, but speak from a Christian point of view. Christianity is about acknowledging that one is a sinner before God just like Buddhism is about recognising that one has a huge karmic debt that requires untold lifetimes to pay. The difference is that Christianity teaches that our sins cannot be atoned by any merit or good works on our part. No amount of good works can cover the sins that we do. God demands absolute holiness and moral perfection because God is perfect and holy. Christianity is about recognising our helplessness and receiving the free gift of eternal life offered by Christ who was sinless and thus qualified to die for us and to take away our sins. If we are to take responsibility for our sins it will mean a one way ticket to hell. The analogy would be that we are all fallen into a deep well and broken our legs and hands and cannot climb out of it. The only way is for someone to come down by a rope to take us up. The Bible does not teach that good works are not needed. The Bible only teach that good works cannot merit salvation, but that good works follow from salvation. A true living faith is one that is expressed in good works. Faith without works is dead.
The Bible also does not teach that accepting God marks the end of all problems. Had the monk read the Bible he would know that Christ's followers just had a new set of problems! They were persecuted and killed for their belief in Christ. Believers still fall sick and die. Nothing has changed physically except their spiritual standing before God.
-
Well, I think we both have misconceptions about each other's faith. In Buddhism, 'good works' do not atone for any sins but generate the altruistic mind that only thinks of me, myself and I. It is the selfish mind that creates suffering. On the other hand, I think there's widespread belief that in Christianity, when one accept God, everything is alright. I hear that all the time when I was still a Christian.
In fact, there's always this argument of which church is the true church of God. Perhaps, I was wrong but you cannot fault Tsem Rinpoche for thinking that really. It is really public perception based on a track record of conversion. When Christians convert others, they always say that they have to accept God. Am I right? Anyway, that's really not the point of the talk, it is actually about practicing the real essence of whatever religion you are in.
-
During my pri and sec days, my school teachers and pastors also said that accepting God means we will have everlasting life... i wonder what happens to the bad people after doing evil....
p.s i wasn't a Christian in my pri and sec days ok
-
Originally posted by Steveyboy:
Well, I think we both have misconceptions about each other's faith. In Buddhism, 'good works' do not atone for any sins but generate the altruistic mind that only thinks of me, myself and I. It is the selfish mind that creates suffering. On the other hand, I think there's widespread belief that in Christianity, when one accept God, everything is alright. I hear that all the time when I was still a Christian.
In fact, there's always this argument of which church is the true church of God. Perhaps, I was wrong but you cannot fault Tsem Rinpoche for thinking that really. It is really public perception based on a track record of conversion. When Christians convert others, they always say that they have to accept God. Am I right? Anyway, that's really not the point of the talk, it is actually about practicing the real essence of whatever religion you are in.
I have been a Christian for a long while and NEVER once have I heard that being a Christian and accepting God means everything would be alright. Such an idea is totally at odds with the Bible's teachings. The absurdity of this idea is quickly dispelled by looking around and noting that good and bad comes to the Christian and non-Christian alike. -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
I have been a Christian for a long while and NEVER once have I heard that being a Christian and accepting God means everything would be alright. Such an idea is totally at odds with the Bible's teachings. The absurdity of this idea is quickly dispelled by looking around and noting that good and bad comes to the Christian and non-Christian alike.@BroInChrist :-
If we don't have to accept God and everything will be alright. Why do Christians pray to God? How does God help his believers? If God created us, why can't God help us to solve our problems?
-
Originally posted by Steveyboy:
@BroInChrist :-
If we don't have to accept God and everything will be alright. Why do Christians pray to God? How does God help his believers? If God created us, why can't God help us to solve our problems?
You may have misunderstood. I am rebutting the false notion that acceptance of God means everything will be alright. The only thing that is made right is one's relationship with God. The only time when everything will be alright is when Jesus comes back to restore all things. Again, God is no genie in the box to solve our problems. Our problem is sin, which God has already solved on the cross.
-
Happy Chinese New Year!
Hmmm ok. Our discussions always seemed to go around in circles. If you said that our problem is sin, how did God solve our problems on the cross? Solving it would mean that there's no more sin right? This is the part that is vague in Christianity to me. Perhaps, you can help clarify for me.
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Again, God is no genie in the box to solve our problems. Our problem is sin, which God has already solved on the cross.
Why not solve our problems? Didn't you say salvation ONLY through him? Logically, since "our sins" have been solved, we should be sinless but why are there so much suffering and injustice happening right now? Are we a puppet show?
-
Originally posted by zeus29:
Why not solve our problems? Didn't you say salvation ONLY through him? Logically, since "our sins" have been solved, we should be sinless but why are there so much suffering and injustice happening right now? Are we a puppet show?
You need to understand the big picture of salvation presented in the Bible. Furthermore, there is no such teaching in the Bible where once saved we are sinless. You have to deal with what the Bible actually teaches, and not knock down a strawman version of your own making.
-
So what's yiur version of salvation?
Jesus dying on the cross couldn't pay for our sins?
-
Originally posted by zeus29:
So what's yiur version of salvation?
Jesus dying on the cross couldn't pay for our sins?
On the contrary, His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished." -
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
On the contrary, His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished."Huh? what's finished?
-
Originally posted by zeus29:
Huh? what's finished?
The work He came to accomplished. The payment for our sins. Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
The work He came to accomplished. The payment for our sins. Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.
that's kind of a good analogy! in Pureland Buddhism, we are like stuck in a mud pool and Amitabha hold out his hand to us. one can either get out by themselves or if we really want to get out faster u can hold his hand and by His great compassionate vow, He will pull us out to safety first.
/\
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:
The work He came to accomplished. The payment for our sins. Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.
so we're sin-free now?
-
Originally posted by zeus29:
so we're sin-free now?
u didn't understand his analogy?
"But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets"
for us Buddhism(not linking so much with PL school), we can work hard and pay for our own ticket! we are not worthless beings.
this form of unfairness, imperialism ideal is unlike the fair, equal, democracy Buddhism.
However, "There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means." ..do have it's ground in Pureland Buddhism. :)
/\
-
Since "His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished." And "payment for our sins" , do we still have sin or not? If no more, why not transform back to paradise millenias ago?
-
Originally posted by BroInChrist:Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.
Since the movie has been paid for all, why the need for ticket? do you mean to say that space is limited and people can't go to the free-for-all movie without the ticke even if they travel all the way to go watch a free-for-all movie? i'm trust you can read between the lines and know what i mean.
-
Well this is very interesting this thread and I would refrain from making conclusions that will upset any parties. That's why I will revert back to the original teaching which is the fact that all religions, whether it is Buddhism, Christianity and so forth is suppose to transform us. To make us better individuals and kinder too.
Personally, I prefer Buddhism, not because I am a pracititioner alone but because it has a very well-developed understanding of the mind and the development of compassion and wisdom. It is very thorough because the Buddha himself gained full enlightenment and through his state gained full understanding and mastery over his mind. That is why I I take refuge in the 3 Jewels beginning with the Buddha.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
for us Buddhism(not linking so much with PL school), we can work hard and pay for our own ticket! we are not worthless beings.
this form of unfairness, imperialism ideal is unlike the fair, equal, democracy Buddhism.
Nicely put.
-
Originally posted by sinweiy:
that's kind of a good analogy! in Pureland Buddhism, we are like stuck in a mud pool and Amitabha hold out his hand to us. one can either get out by themselves or if we really want to get out faster u can hold his hand and by His great compassionate vow, He will pull us out to safety first.
/\
Did this Pure Land teaching originate from the Buddha himself? -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
u didn't understand his analogy?
"But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets"
for us Buddhism(not linking so much with PL school), we can work hard and pay for our own ticket! we are not worthless beings.
this form of unfairness, imperialism ideal is unlike the fair, equal, democracy Buddhism.
However, "There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means." ..do have it's ground in Pureland Buddhism. :)
/\
Why would you think that to offer man salvation by grace is tantamount to implying that man is a worthless being? When it has already been stated that the ticket cannot be earned why do you insist on working for it? Is it one's pride and ego at work to humbly admit that a gift cannot be earned, otherwise it is not called a gift? -
Originally posted by zeus29:
Since "His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished." And "payment for our sins" , do we still have sin or not? If no more, why not transform back to paradise millenias ago?
We are free from the power of sin but not from the presence of sin. But we will be free from the presence of sin when Judgement Day comes and God put all things right. -
Originally posted by zeus29:
Since the movie has been paid for all, why the need for ticket? do you mean to say that space is limited and people can't go to the free-for-all movie without the ticke even if they travel all the way to go watch a free-for-all movie? i'm trust you can read between the lines and know what i mean.
You are stretching the analogy. Ok, even if there is no ticket to hand out, you still need to go to the cinema in good faith to watch it. That is faith at work. Heaven is not limited but the time to make a decision for God is.