Night Owl Chatterboxes - Part LIII
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I was WTF no wonder it refused to eat
I didn't stuff the food in it's face
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so tired alrdy...
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Originally posted by elindra:
I was WTF no wonder it refused to eat
I didn't stuff the food in it's face
spoiled liao ma
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Originally posted by elindra:
Put it this way, I wonder how many of them are guilty of buying fresh food and freezing them LOL
I'm sure all will be guilty! Unless they are housewives, or their maids go marketing EVERYDAY, there's no way you can avoid freezing your seafood and meat! -
Originally posted by Rhonda: I'm sure all will be guilty! Unless they are housewives, or their maids go marketing EVERYDAY, there's no way you can avoid freezing your seafood and meat!
Ya so what r they bitching aboutThere are less germs and bacteria if it is frozen from the beginning
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ignorance.. isn't bliss...
well... they use their ignorance like something to torture themselves, then blame others about it
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Originally posted by elindra:
Ya so what r they bitching aboutThere are less germs and bacteria if it is frozen from the beginning
Precisely!! For me, 'fresh' means you cook the meat the minute it's slaughtered. Or, you cook the seafood the minute it's hauled up from the nets. Other than that, it has to go through some form of refrigeration whilst being transported and if you think about it, to reach the market frozen would definitely be a better method of keeping it fresher, than to just chill it.
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time to sleep..
goodnight everyone
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I think though, that it really isn't about making the switch ... but it's starting to smack of "Let them eat cake" ....
it's not about Singaporeans refusing to eat frozen stuff ... or making do with less .... but that it's a slap in the face when wages in singapore are not keeping up with inflation while our ministers are taking home million dollar salaries and bonuses .....
sure, we'll make do with less .... and less .... and less ..... where does it end ? .....
is the solution really more and more foreign low cost workers ? .... little wonder our wages are depressed ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I think though, that it really isn't about making the switch ... but it's starting to smack of "Let them eat cake" ....
it's not about Singaporeans refusing to eat frozen stuff ... or making do with less .... but that it's a slap in the face when wages in singapore are not keeping up with inflation while our ministers are taking home million dollar salaries and bonuses .....
sure, we'll make do with less .... and less .... and less ..... where does it end ? .....
is the solution really more and more foreign low cost workers ? .... little wonder our wages are depressed ? ...
The billion dollar question is, how else can we remain competitive in the international arena? Unlike most other developed nations, we don't have a substantial domestic economy, we definitely aren't self-sustaining, and we don't have any natural resources other than the populace.
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Like I said before to get more pay you have to be EXTREMELY productive like the Americans for wages to go up
And I don't see it as a chicken and egg problem where you need to give the carrot before the person will work
U know usually it is you work and the reward will come later but then it can be argued the employer will exploit the worker.
So no one wants to make the move
Btw I have seen many cases where the Singaporeans are higher paid than the FT in the company but the Singaporean laze around while the FT works
Now if you are employer who would you take?
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
The billion dollar question is, how else can we remain competitive in the international arena? Unlike most other developed nations, we don't have a substantial domestic economy, we definitely aren't self-sustaining, and we don't have any natural resources other than the populace.
Japan had zero resources too, how did they become the second biggest economy in the world ? ... their domestic economy was a result of their own spending after their boom .....
and I am sick of people saying that we have to be competitive .... Singaporeans are enterprising, we are not sheltered, naive, or dependent .... lots of people have survived and made our way outside of our nanny state ....
you know what's the real billion dollar answer ? ... it's because we have become too dependent on foreign investments and goverment enterprises ... in singapore, the majority of big businesses have goverment links, or a directly goverment owned ... Singtel, Sembawang, Jurong shipyard, NOL, Singapore airlines, DBS bank, ST, the list goes on and on .... what's left over are the big foreign players ....
creative got farked over by the goverment before .... that's why their research center is located in malaysia, in a direct slap to the goverment, for attempts at reverse engineering their products ... remember the two chaps who thought of licensing minivans to sell food at carparks in the CBD ? ... instead of being granted their licenses, the authorities took their idea, and started selling licenses to the general public, and the two chaps got not a single cent ....
this is the crux of the problem .... i resent being told we are spoilt, we're a nanny state, we can't survive on our own, all of which is untrue .... the only truth is that we are over-regulated and managed to the point that on one is able to exercise judgement and initiative even if they want to ... all the time we're being forced to play a field that's getting ever crowded with one hand tied ... CPF contributions, yearly NS obligations, High housing costs, all that against a backdrop of lowering wages caused by foreign competition ....
something's got to give ... we cannot keep being asked to accept less and less forever ... low wages is not the only way for us to compete .... infact, it is NOT the way for us to compete ... anyone would tell you, sooner or later, everyone would be facing the same wage structure, what then ? ....
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Japan have an abundant sea and more resources than we do here for farming
Anyway, we don't have to accept to accept less from the Government.
Since you want more, you have to work for it and justify to the employer why paying you more is worth it compared to hiring a FT.
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Originally posted by elindra:
Like I said before to get more pay you have to be EXTREMELY productive like the Americans for wages to go up
And I don't see it as a chicken and egg problem where you need to give the carrot before the person will work
U know usually it is you work and the reward will come later but then it can be argued the employer will exploit the worker.
So no one wants to make the move
Btw I have seen many cases where the Singaporeans are higher paid than the FT in the company but the Singaporean laze around while the FT works
Now if you are employer who would you take?
I totally agree with you.
Singaporeans are too spoilt and fussy in their job search. They flock to 'cushy' professions, whilst shunning the less glamourous ones. If we don't have FT's to fill up the posts shunned by Singaporeans, what then? Sit and put our feet up and watch our economy fail, simply because too many vital jobs are left vacant because no Singaporean wants those jobs, and yet, we do not allow foreigners who are willing to work, to get those jobs too?
FT's do not deprive Singaporeans of jobs. FT's FILL THE QUOTA left when Singaporeans refuse to take up the jobs!
Look at all the major developed countries in the world today. Which one does not import FT's? Look at London, NYC, Sydney, Melbourne, Paris, etc etc. All major economies welcome FT's to a certain extent. Without FT's, Melbourne will never be what it is today - a vibrant, booming economy. Rather, it would be a backwater city that's lacklustre and very much a cultural desert.
FT's know that they can stay in a country only if they work hard. They have more at stake so yes, in certain instances, they will tend to work harder and even be more cheerful doing the same jobs that the Singaporeans somehow dislike.
We shouldn't adopt a 'closed' attitude like our immediate neighbour with their protectionist Bumi Putra policies. Look how far their protectionist policies have brought them!
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Originally posted by elindra:
Like I said before to get more pay you have to be EXTREMELY productive like the Americans for wages to go up
And I don't see it as a chicken and egg problem where you need to give the carrot before the person will work
U know usually it is you work and the reward will come later but then it can be argued the employer will exploit the worker.
So no one wants to make the move
Btw I have seen many cases where the Singaporeans are higher paid than the FT in the company but the Singaporean laze around while the FT works
Now if you are employer who would you take?
I'm not sure about the lazy singaporeans bit .... cos I worked 14 hour days at my last job, and even more now that I'm running my own show ... and I think such a comparison is unfair too ..
imagine this scenario ... a true one I encountered during my industrial project ... a factory hires older singaporeans, plus strapping young johoreans ... both on the same wages and OT pay .. but the singaporean unkers are often unable to put in the overtime each day ...because the man has family obligations, he has wife and kids here, waiting for dinner together, kids waiting to be taken care of, chores to help with the wifey, who also have her own job to make ends meet ...... and some of these chaps have to disappear for 2 weeks each year for a "paid holiday" called NS, on top of whatever annual leave you give them .... so effectively, they disappear for more than a month each year ! ... while the young johoreans have no strings attached .... no obligations, and can put in 12 hour shifts when the crunch comes ....
of course the (singaporean) boss would ask himself, why hire these local chaps, when I can hire the johoreans ? ... of course, now, there are even cheaper workers available from china ....
where are we going now ? ...
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Originally posted by Fatum:
Japan had zero resources too, how did they become the second biggest economy in the world ? ... their domestic economy was a result of their own spending after their boom .....
and I am sick of people saying that we have to be competitive .... Singaporeans are enterprising, we are not sheltered, naive, or dependent .... lots of people have survived and made our way outside of our nanny state ....
you know what's the real billion dollar answer ? ... it's because we have become too dependent on foreign investments and goverment enterprises ... in singapore, the majority of big businesses have goverment links, or a directly goverment owned ... Singtel, Sembawang, Jurong shipyard, NOL, Singapore airlines, DBS bank, ST, the list goes on and on .... what's left over are the big foreign players ....
creative got farked over by the goverment before .... that's why their research center is located in malaysia, in a direct slap to the goverment, for attempts at reverse engineering their products ... remember the two chaps who thought of licensing minivans to sell food at carparks in the CBD ? ... instead of being granted their licenses, the authorities took their idea, and started selling licenses to the general public, and the two chaps got not a single cent ....
this is the crux of the problem .... i resent being told we are spoilt, we're a nanny state, we can't survive on our own, all of which is untrue .... the only truth is that we are over-regulated and managed to the point that on one is able to exercise judgement and initiative even if they want to ... all the time we're being forced to play a field that's getting ever crowded with one hand tied ... CPF contributions, yearly NS obligations, High housing costs, all that against a backdrop of lowering wages caused by foreign competition ....
something's got to give ... we cannot keep being asked to accept less and less forever ... low wages is not the only way for us to compete .... infact, it is NOT the way for us to compete ... anyone would tell you, sooner or later, everyone would be facing the same wage structure, what then ? ....
Well, be prepared to be very sick for a very long time, because the reality is, Singapore does have to maintain its competitive advantages. Hell, even the govt acknowledges that! Singapore may be doing very well now, but if any of our neighbours ever gain a cost-efficiency advantage over us, watch the good days fall like a ton of bricks.
Maybe, YOU are "enterprising, ... not sheltered, naive, or dependent", but that doesn't mean that everyone else is. Easy, just step over to SC and point proven.
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I went shopping today.
Just blew S$1k these last 2 days on buying stuffs. Even got 10 over dvds and CDs from a shop in Funan Centre that looks like its closing down.
And looking for things to send to my sister in USA.
It was so much fun. Now I am missing those Prima Taste Packages and a couple of light bracelets then I should post them tomorrow.
Was looking for laptops, but the Asus EEE are sold out! Then I saw at Best Denki got this Sony laptop going for $1699. Damn itchy to buy but my cash not enough! Darn it.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
I'm not sure about the lazy singaporeans bit .... cos I worked 14 hour days at my last job, and even more now that I'm running my own show ... and I think such a comparison is unfair too ..
imagine this scenario ... a true one I encountered during my industrial project ... a factory hires older singaporeans, plus strapping young johoreans ... both on the same wages and OT pay .. but the singaporean unkers are often unable to put in the overtime each day ...because the man has family obligations, he has wife and kids here, waiting for dinner together, kids waiting to be taken care of, chores to help with the wifey, who also have her own job to make ends meet ...... and some of these chaps have to disappear for 2 weeks each year for a "paid holiday" called NS, on top of whatever annual leave you give them .... so effectively, they disappear for more than a month each year ! ... while the young johoreans have no strings attached .... no obligations, and can put in 12 hour shifts when the crunch comes ....
of course the (singaporean) boss would ask himself, why hire these local chaps, when I can hire the johoreans ? ... of course, now, there are even cheaper workers available from china ....
where are we going now ? ...
I also know of plenty of Johoreans who are married with wife and kids and they sacrifice the time spent with their family to earn more money here so that they can have a easier life back there. To top off they commute between Malaysia and Singapore everyday.
Coz I have seen enough bochup Singaporeans at their jobs while the FT is entu about it.
You put in so many hours a day Fatum because you are your own boss. If you don't work, you have no $$. For some ppl they go to work and shake their leg because even if they don't produce anything, they are still paid. That is the difference. I'm not saying all Singaporeans are lazy but they are more substantial than you think.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
I totally agree with you.
Singaporeans are too spoilt and fussy in their job search. They flock to 'cushy' professions, whilst shunning the less glamourous ones. If we don't have FT's to fill up the posts shunned by Singaporeans, what then? Sit and put our feet up and watch our economy fail, simply because too many vital jobs are left vacant because no Singaporean wants those jobs, and yet, we do not allow foreigners who are willing to work, to get those jobs too?
FT's do not deprive Singaporeans of jobs. FT's FILL THE QUOTA left when Singaporeans refuse to take up the jobs!
Look at all the major developed countries in the world today. Which one does not import FT's? Look at London, NYC, Sydney, Melbourne, Paris, etc etc. All major economies welcome FT's to a certain extent. Without FT's, Melbourne will never be what it is today - a vibrant, booming economy. Rather, it would be a backwater city that's lacklustre and very much a cultural desert.
FT's know that they can stay in a country only if they work hard. They have more at stake so yes, in certain instances, they will tend to work harder and even be more cheerful doing the same jobs that the Singaporeans somehow dislike.
We shouldn't adopt a 'closed' attitude like our immediate neighbour with their protectionist Bumi Putra policies. Look how far their protectionist policies have brought them!
now I am not advocating bumi policies for singaporeans, but if you fail to make the distinction between Singaporeans and Foreign Talents, then we'll cease to exist as a nation ...
our situation is different ... we have conscription, other countries don't ... we impose duties on our citizens beyond what's asked of other people ... we impose handicaps on them .... while at the same time, give many FTs a leg up and headstart in our society here ....
filling in vital jobs is one thing, but what I see is that many older, less educated Singaporeans are being edged out of jobs by lower cost, younger foreign talents ....
why hire a 55 year old Singaporean aunty as a toilet cleaner who has to get home at 5 everyday to tend to the house and cook dinner, while you can hire a 25 years old china kid who can put in two hours more everyday, and accept a lower wage ? .... get my drift ? ... I'm not sure if it's even a fair comparison to start with ...
and employers are screaming, not enough people ! not enough people ? ...
our public services are being taxed, look at our trains and busses .... we're being over-crowded ... every single public event is a sea of sweltering humanity .... not enough people ? ... or too much already ? ...
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
I went shopping today.
Just blew S$1k these last 2 days on buying stuffs. Even got 10 over dvds and CDs from a shop in Funan Centre that looks like its closing down.
And looking for things to send to my sister in USA.
It was so much fun. Now I am missing those Prima Taste Packages and a couple of light bracelets then I should post them tomorrow.
Was looking for laptops, but the Asus EEE are sold out! Then I saw at Best Denki got this Sony laptop going for $1699. Damn itchy to buy but my cash not enough! Darn it.
Whoa... that's a lot of money!
I just spent about A$215 today... all on Nursing textbooks.
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Originally posted by Rhonda:
Well, be prepared to be very sick for a very long time, because the reality is, Singapore does have to maintain its competitive advantages. Hell, even the govt acknowledges that! Singapore may be doing very well now, but if any of our neighbours ever gain a cost-efficiency advantage over us, watch the good days fall like a ton of bricks.
Maybe, YOU are "enterprising, ... not sheltered, naive, or dependent", but that doesn't mean that everyone else is. Easy, just step over to SC and point proven.
but you see, that's the whole point ! ... they do HAVE a huge cost advantage over us right now ... but we are still doing better than they are in many key areas ... our wage structures are already much higher than our immediate neighbours .. but we were still be able to out-compete them ... we were able to do it before ... what has changed ? ... did the Singaporean worker become "lazy" overnight ?: ...
and it is an economic truism that sooner or later, everyone would be facing the same wage structure, where do we go then ? ... now it's china, perhaps it'll be india next, Africa perhaps ... where else then ? ... where's the next lowest cost center ? ...
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sony's stuff sucks .... don't buy them ... you're paying a premium ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
now I am not advocating bumi policies for singaporeans, but if you fail to make the distinction between Singaporeans and Foreign Talents, then we'll cease to exist as a nation ...
our situation is different ... we have conscription, other countries don't ... we impose duties on our citizens beyond what's asked of other people ... we impose handicaps on them .... while at the same time, give many FTs a leg up and headstart in our society here ....
filling in vital jobs is one thing, but what I see is that many older, less educated Singaporeans are being edged out of jobs by lower cost, younger foreign talents ....
why hire a 55 year old Singaporean aunty as a toilet cleaner who has to get home at 5 everyday to tend to the house and cook dinner, while you can hire a 25 years old china kid who can put in two hours more everyday, and accept a lower wage ? .... get my drift ? ... I'm not sure if it's even a fair comparison to start with ...
and employers are screaming, not enough people ! not enough people ? ...
our public services are being taxed, look at our trains and busses .... we're being over-crowded ... every single public event is a sea of sweltering humanity .... not enough people ? ... or too much already ? ...
It is not FT's that should be targetted, but rather, labour policies. The Unions are weak in Singapore, they do not offer any protection whatsoever to workers. Even without the FT's presence, if a corporation is ruthless enough, they will still fire the older, more expensive workers, and replace them with freshly-graduated, keen as puppy dogs Singaporean youths. The absence of FT's alone will not guarantee that the unfair practice will not permeate. The solution to that problem, is to enforce labour laws that make such practices illegal and enforce a penalty on such practices, which, as we can already guess, will be futile thinking, it being Singapore.
As for public transport and over-crowding, seriously, WHICH major developed city doesn't face the same problems? Rising costs of housing, lousy public transport, hard-to-find parking lots, expensive parking, overcrowding... ALL are typical problems encountered by all major cities in the world. We aren't doing any worse. We win some, we lose some.
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At least we don't have train packers like they do in Japan >.<"
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I want to go live like a hermit in somewhere cheap for the rest of my life. 3-5 years of them.