What's your view on homosexualtiy in Singapore
-
As for the New Testament, could you kindly refer us to any part of it that refers to gays being sin?
Sure...this is one clear example:
"..Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.." [Rom1;26-17]
There are other passages on this subject but the wording requires an understanding of the original Greek, as the wording is less obvious, being translated into words like 'perverts' as in 1 Tim 1:10. -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Contridictions..
Sure...this is one clear example:
"..Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. [b]Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.." [Rom1;26-17]
There are other passages on this subject but the wording requires an understanding of the original Greek, as the wording is less obvious, being translated into words like 'perverts' as in 1 Tim 1:10.[/b]
Christians claims God created mankind...Adam and Eve...
What rights does he have to condemn us that we have sins when he himself is the creater? Blame it on his own skill. Even the very first mankind have faults already. So who's fault? -
I will not be too alerted if the word "perverts" appear everytime without linking directly with gays. Cause if the reasons or laws or principles can be debunked. The practical considerations as in 1 Tim 1:10 will not be a consideration.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Sure...this is one clear example:
"..Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. [b]Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.." [Rom1;26-17]
[/b][/quote]
Oh. Didn't know about the above paragraph. Was trying to find out the context which this was written and the following paragraph holds the key:
"21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. "
I finally understands why Christian gays are so confused. According to the above, if you do not believe in God, you will turn into gays. If you believe in God, you will not become gays.
Let's just do a simple observation. How many of your Atheistic friends are Straights (aplenty I guess, but why arent they gay since they do not believe in God)? And how many of your Christian friends are gays (smaller number but still quite a handful but how would that possible? They believe in God, didnt they?).
Viola! The argument surrounding the above paragraph is disproved.
In fact, you can type Christian gays in google to look at some of these groups. They love Jesus and God as much as the other churches. And yet, why can't their sexual orientation changed by their beliefs in God and Jesus?
Or if you have the chance, go watch "Angels In America". A HBO produced mini-series. A Mormon gay gets married and fight his inner "demons" (demons only in his eyes) for 6 years without wanting to have sex with his wife. A long six years. The only thing he had gotten is complete sexual abstinence, a very confused mind, but not in the change of his sexual orientation.
I know using a drama might not be the best line of argument. But it does contain certain truth. Since we all know Christian gay friends struggling to find meaning in life.
[quote]Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
There are other passages on this subject but the wording requires an understanding of the original Greek, as the wording is less obvious, being translated into words like 'perverts' as in 1 Tim 1:10. -
Ah, gotta elaborate this point a bit cause it will most likely be misread. The term "perverts" can refer to anything, like what you have said. It is a categorical label. Without defining it, no one will exactly know what does it mean.Originally posted by earthlings73:I will not be too alerted if the word "perverts" appear everytime without linking directly with gays. Cause if the reasons or laws or principles can be debunked. The practical considerations as in 1 Tim 1:10 will not be a consideration.
In Buddhism, "sexual pervasions" are linked to "sexual misconducts" activities. It's based on principles. It encourages tolerance and the interpretation of Buddha scriptures based on context. Do read the following article for more info:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_budd.htm
When such a word in used in a categorical manner in a sentence, you have to ascertain the meaning of that word before judging whether it's applicable to the sentence.
Very much like the "too much voice will draw backlash" example earlier. It's only through much discussion that we've agreed the too much noise can be used to refer to gay parties and nothing else. -
Hi sister,Originally posted by laosu:Contridictions..
Christians claims God created mankind...Adam and Eve...
What rights does he have to condemn us that we have sins when he himself is the creater? Blame it on his own skill. Even the very first mankind have faults already. So who's fault?
before someone else bombed you. allow me to explain how might a typical conservative Christian respond to you.
"You and I are all created the same as the straights.. Just that, we are perverted people who "CHOSE" a hedosnistic lifestyle.. If we do not stop leading this lifestyle. God will destroy us! Like he destroy Sodom."
To me, the issue is always whether we are borned or we are made (by society).
As to God's destruction. How would we know? It might simply be a war between the Muslims and the Christians and destroy us all. -
Repeated post
-
Respect the human right, respect the gays. Let them lick each other night n day.
-
It's gonna be nice to watch.Originally posted by Ogbunwezeh:Respect the human right, respect the gays. Let them lick each other night n day.
-
1 was doing my run yesterday evening, when a guy(bear tops) cycle pass me and stop at the toilet. I took a look at him, while i finish my run and walk away from the toilet and he shouted at me..." u homo har...keep staring for what...u homesexual is it".......
i was like
....what make him said that.....wtf....the guy must be homo 
...my male friend was waiting for me nearby(he finish his run earlier), tell me...ignore him..... 
wtf.....whoever u r...near kallang canoeing club toilet(meeting point 3) yesterday evening around 8pm+....go and find a big tree nearby and screw urself.
-
I was Christian. I don't choose to be this way cause for more than 20 yrs coming to a close 30yrs I've been struggling. I gave up. I gave up not because I lost faith in him but because I still want to believe in Him. For as long as I can remember, I tried means and ways to turn str8. Seek Him for an answer. Seek Him for help. For so many years, I was blind. It was only 4yrs back that I finally realised that He wanted me to leave so that I will reserve the only faith left I have of Him. He had given me and answer and the answer is within myself. Seek the truth and the truth is who is the real me.Originally posted by earthlings73:Hi sister,
before someone else bombed you. allow me to explain how might a typical conservative Christian respond to you.
"You and I are all created the same as the straights.. Just that, we are perverted people who "CHOSE" a hedosnistic lifestyle.. If we do not stop leading this lifestyle. God will destroy us! Like he destroy Sodom."
To me, the issue is always whether we are borned or we are made (by society).
As to God's destruction. How would we know? It might simply be a war between the Muslims and the Christians and destroy us all.
I am the real me.
I'm not afraid of people bombing me. I know my words and I believe in them. I believe in Him. What's the use of holding on to a bible and read it every day when the meanings are not even in your heart? Why condemn others when you yourself are being condemned (refering to those who critized and judged other's way of life)? Every human is a reflection of each other. What you hide is what you see in others and what others sees in you are what they hide. For those who judged others, they are being judged by others too.
I am who I am. I'm proud to be me now. I'm proud to know Him. I dare to look at those who dare to judge me Cause they have no rights to. For every finger being pointed at me, four other fingers are being pointed at themselves. -
duplicated post
-
Dear Sister,Originally posted by laosu:I was Christian. I don't choose to be this way cause for more than 20 yrs coming to a close 30yrs I've been struggling. I gave up. I gave up not because I lost faith in him but because I still want to believe in Him. For as long as I can remember, I tried means and ways to turn str8. Seek Him for an answer. Seek Him for help. For so many years, I was blind. It was only 4yrs back that I finally realised that He wanted me to leave so that I will reserve the only faith left I have of Him. He had given me and answer and the answer is within myself. Seek the truth and the truth is who is the real me.
I am the real me.
I'm not afraid of people bombing me. I know my words and I believe in them. I believe in Him. What's the use of holding on to a bible and read it every day when the meanings are not even in your heart? Why condemn others when you yourself are being condemned (refering to those who critized and judged other's way of life)? Every human is a reflection of each other. What you hide is what you see in others and what others sees in you are what they hide. For those who judged others, they are being judged by others too.
I am who I am. I'm proud to be me now. I'm proud to know Him. I dare to look at those who dare to judge me Cause they have no rights to. For every finger being pointed at me, four other fingers are being pointed at themselves.
I'm so proud of you. =) I don't think you need to pull completely away from the religion if you still believe in it. There is a christian gay group in Singapore.
http://www.oursafehaven.com
They might address some of your concerns. -
Wow, this must be the most poetic post to date.Originally posted by Ogbunwezeh:Respect the human right, respect the gays. Let them lick each other night n day.
Just some qualifiers:
1) We do not anyhow lick each other.
2) We do not do it night and day.
Just like straights, we do not need sex round the clock. =P -
Alternative interpretation:Originally posted by kops21:1 was doing my run yesterday evening, when a guy(bear tops) cycle pass me and stop at the toilet. I took a look at him, while i finish my run and walk away from the toilet and he shouted at me..." u homo har...keep staring for what...u homesexual is it".......
i was like ....what make him said that.....wtf....the guy must be homo ...my male friend was waiting for me nearby(he finish his run earlier), tell me...ignore him.....
wtf.....whoever u r...near kallang canoeing club toilet(meeting point 3) yesterday evening around 8pm+....go and find a big tree nearby and screw urself.
Some straights might be so "homophobic" these days that you are not supposed to look at them for too long.. =P Try to look at the ground more often.. =P -
Religion does not mean everything.... Religion afterall is thought out by man thousands of years ago... time changes everything... so to hate gays just because your religion says so, it is quite stupid.. but of course, everyone has their own thinking, I mean, you can don't agree with their lifestyles but the best is just to leave them alone and don't hurl insults and make them change... it is their lifes and they are not hurting anyone in the process..
-
what the F .. been away doing some economic good and return with so much link to religion...
educate us (the straights)... a little bit more..
(a) you guys do each other thro the ass ?
(b) as you grow older, the muscle around the ass gets too weak ?
(c) too weak an ass muscle even contain the bowel ?
(d) wear adult "pampers" when old ?
(e) have u screw a real woman before ? what is the diff ? -
Yeah, i have quite a number of gay friend... Their sex life juz like normal ppl. Juz tat they go thru the different entrance. I respect gay right, we should not discriminate them. But after all there r still some fickled minded ppl tat can't accept them.Originally posted by earthlings73:Wow, this must be the most poetic post to date.
Just some qualifiers:
1) We do not anyhow lick each other.
2) We do not do it night and day.
Just like straights, we do not need sex round the clock. =P -
Fortunately, your absence is not missed.Originally posted by enjoys456:what the F .. been away doing some economic good and return with so much link to religion...
educate us (the straights)... a little bit more..
(a) you guys do each other thro the ass ?
(b) as you grow older, the muscle around the ass gets too weak ?
(c) too weak an ass muscle even contain the bowel ?
(d) wear adult "pampers" when old ?
(e) have u screw a real woman before ? what is the diff ?
All your points can be summarised into 2 questions:
1) Is it okay to do anal sex?
2) Can gay men have sex with a straight women?
For anal sex, I do not want to deal more into the details of your questions since it's basically non of your business what I do in my bedroom. However, if you are interested in anal sex, and fearful of whether it will bring harm to your spouse, please refer to the following website written by straights and for straights:
http://www.askmen.com/love/love_tip/sextip20.html
For your second question. Nope, I'm not a confused gay. I'm rather clear of what I need. I used to have a girlfriend prior to coming out. But I couldn't even bring myself to hold her hand. She broke up with me after 6 months, citing reason that she didn't feel my love. I'm glad for her, actually. Else, I would have misled a nice girl into a relationship which will cause more harm than good to her.
And asking a gay whether they have screwed a straight woman or not is similar to asking you whether you have screwed a man or not.
Finally, from your post, it reflects your state of mind. The ability to process only one single piece of information at a time. However, if you can broaden your mind, able to see diversity in things. You will find yourself more accepting. This world is in such turmoil now because of such narrow-mindedness. -
thx for the clarification..Originally posted by Ogbunwezeh:Yeah, i have quite a number of gay friend... Their sex life juz like normal ppl. Juz tat they go thru the different entrance. I respect gay right, we should not discriminate them. But after all there r still some fickled minded ppl tat can't accept them.
-
I am happy with the way I am now. Like I say..no use for me to hold a bible in my hand if I don't believe it. Vs vesus..if I believe in it..there's no need for me to hold the bible in my hand cause it's already inside my heart.Originally posted by earthlings73:Dear Sister,
I'm so proud of you. =) I don't think you need to pull completely away from the religion if you still believe in it. There is a christian gay group in Singapore.
http://www.oursafehaven.com
They might address some of your concerns.
As a proud les, I just wanted to be recognised and accepted as a human being and not homosexual. I don't need gay parade blah blah blah to show them my identity. My identity, like everyone elses, are human.
I love no less than other people. I pay tax no less than the others. I have great friends gay/str8 who love me and stood by me when times are down. I love my woman no lesser than any man who love their wife or maybe I can love my woman more than any of the man love their wife. I'm proud of myself.
To all those so-claim str8 out there who despise us people. Point your fingers at me only when you learn to love your partners and respect human more than me. My love might not be of equal to God but my love is definitely greater than most cause I learn to respect. -
i applaude you.Originally posted by laosu:I was Christian. I don't choose to be this way cause for more than 20 yrs coming to a close 30yrs I've been struggling. I gave up. I gave up not because I lost faith in him but because I still want to believe in Him. For as long as I can remember, I tried means and ways to turn str8. Seek Him for an answer. Seek Him for help. For so many years, I was blind. It was only 4yrs back that I finally realised that He wanted me to leave so that I will reserve the only faith left I have of Him. He had given me and answer and the answer is within myself. Seek the truth and the truth is who is the real me.
I am the real me.
I'm not afraid of people bombing me. I know my words and I believe in them. I believe in Him. What's the use of holding on to a bible and read it every day when the meanings are not even in your heart? Why condemn others when you yourself are being condemned (refering to those who critized and judged other's way of life)? Every human is a reflection of each other. What you hide is what you see in others and what others sees in you are what they hide. For those who judged others, they are being judged by others too.
I am who I am. I'm proud to be me now. I'm proud to know Him. I dare to look at those who dare to judge me Cause they have no rights to. For every finger being pointed at me, four other fingers are being pointed at themselves.
-
Originally posted by enjoys456:
mainstream doesn't mean it must be right. Living like sheep blindly follwing the leader, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, does not appeal to me. The truely foolish aren't the ones who deny what is mainstream, but rather those who choose to just follow blindly without giving thought to the truth, those who do not wish to explore outside of their familar boundries of life to discover the real truth for themselves.
Sister Heng@,
ignorance is not something that we cannot completely eliminate... we have to live with it..
but knowing and yet denying what is acceptable as mainstream.. is foolish
[b]any parents would want to die knowing their boy has become a good man
any wife will want a man to start a family with
any child would want to draw a father and mother in their Pri 1 art class when they are asked to draw "Your favourite family"
it's tough to swallow for some, and even harder face the reality at times, but that where we are
and that the stand that many will take to protect the family values
this is my stand for family values !![/b]
As for what "any parent" wants to die knowning, or what "any wife" wants or what "any child" draws, these are the results of centuries of social conditioning under blindness and ignorance. All great philosophers of their time were view as crazy by their peers of their time. But now we know the wisdom in their explorations of the mental and we laud them for it.
Whatever many's stand may be, it is a fool's errand to struggle to hold on to something which is fundamentally flawed. It would seem to me that current family values in singapore are based not on unconditional love, but on expectations of the individual, disguised as "love" -
wah lan... guess you gays here are well educated and defending like hell for a social space...
mainstream is wrong ?
man... what planet are you from.... what stream are you from....
till today u still think the society will accept heros of history, passion of past time... ?
state of mind ??.... u must be out of yr mind not to recognise the mind of the state... the ppl who lives in our state...
u guys have long way... and are struggling too keep your ass or lips tight over the basic issue of asian family values...
if gays have been an acceptable by society since long long ago, long long by now the straights would have been the minority...
yah... yah... u can say the state of mind... blah... blah... but look around you... ... if u really think the society is open... then go to your employer and HR dept and let them know that you are a gay.. and proud of it as well... see what happens...
once u have doubt about this... then u already know the answer...
gays are gays, friends are friends, fundamental values are still fundamental values...
values = mainstream defines these current values -
mainstream is definately right? Then 400 years ago, u must be one of the many fools who mainstreamly believed the Earth to be the center of the Universe. Or perhaps 2 millenias ago u were one of the fools who thought the earth was flat? Hey in their days, these were mainstream ideas, but did that mean they were right? Nooooooooo. It meant they were too narrow minded to be open to what may be the truth. Your fallacy in applying the logic that if it is mainstream, it must be right here is simply wrong.Originally posted by enjoys456:wah lan... guess you gays here are well educated and defending like hell for a social space...
mainstream is wrong ?
man... what planet are you from.... what stream are you from....
till today u still think the society will accept heros of history, passion of past time... ?
state of mind ??.... u must be out of yr mind not to recognise the mind of the state... the ppl who lives in our state...
u guys have long way... and are struggling too keep your ass or lips tight over the basic issue of asian family values...
if gays have been an acceptable by society since long long ago, long long by now the straights would have been the minority...
yah... yah... u can say the state of mind... blah... blah... but look around you... ... if u really think the society is open... then go to your employer and HR dept and let them know that you are a gay.. and proud of it as well... see what happens...
once u have doubt about this... then u already know the answer...
gays are gays, friends are friends, fundamental values are still fundamental values...
values = mainstream defines these current values
As well, your lack of knowledge is also stunning. Homosexuality was widespread in ancient Greek and Roman societies. So yes Gays were not only, in your own words, "acceptable by society since long long ago", they were also considered as normal as being straight was. My suggestion to u is that if u want to argue your feeble arguments with historical references, maybe u better know what u are talking about 1st.
This brings us to the fact is that there is no wrong or right with regards to sexuality. In ancient Greek and Roma civilizations, there was no distinction between being "straight" or "homosexual". there will always be both straight and homosexual people, and the only reason that homosexuals are in the minority now is largely due to social conditioning. Many people who have had homosexual thoughts simply suppress them because they fear society will reject them. A fear which bigots like you happily spread, just because u are too narrow minded to see that something that is mainstream is not necessary right.
-
Do not condemn others. No one is perfect.Originally posted by boi86:homosexuals should be condemn..
cos God made adam n eve
not adam n steve.