[Sunday Times] Unhelpful students on bus
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starblue hosting speakers corner here? nice
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den just open the golden mouth and askOriginally posted by ghimpheng:o well think if your gf is carrying a child and no one want to give up a seat for her even though they do not have heavy carriage/item to carry and they are young men and women or teenagers how do you feel then ?
quote from teacher: "why mouth got gold cannot open and ask?" -
It's part of remaking "starblue's Heaven".Originally posted by boy in blues:starblue hosting speakers corner here? nice 
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tis a cool ideaOriginally posted by CoolMyth:It's part of remaking "starblue's Heaven". -
On the bus, the woman did not get her seat right? She kept quiet, did she not? So she did not demand any courtesy orally. She "expected" courtesy in her mind - but who could tell? Is it even relevant that she "expected" or "demanded" courtesy? I doubt so.Originally posted by BillyBong:There is a difference between offering courtesy (which is true courtesy) against DEMANDING courtesy (false ethic).
But on the other hand, no kind-hearted soul offered her a seat. No one offering courtesy to her.
The gist of her letter is: why are people not giving help, when help is clearly appreciated? Surely you don't need people to tell you when help is appreciated, right? C'mon, you need to be TOLD to give up a seat for a woman who has a child in her hands?
I mean, so what if you have been snubbed before, without a word of thanks from the person who took the seat? You want something in return for the good deed? Is this becoming more like a moral transaction?
The writer of the letter has a good point to make. The students are not being magnanimous to her. And c'mon, don't tell me that the people may not be students - GOOD chance that they are, and let's not avoid the reality ya?
If on the other hand, if the woman orally demanded a seat, I would actually feel embarassed! Wouldn't you?
You need to be TOLD to give up a seat????
Where is the sense of a good heart, the sense of magnamity, the sense of courtesy? -
This just shows self-centeredness, doesnt it? It's like - I got this seat, I do not want to give it up. It is none of my business whether you have a child in your hand or not.Originally posted by lwflee:lwfee's response to Mdm Lee:
Mdm, Nobody OWES you a seat. If someone offers you their seat, then he deserves to be lauded. If he doesn't then fair enough. He certainly, i feel, doesn't deserves to be censured.
Shouldn't this self-centeredness be censured?
The woman did not orally express her expectation. If she did, wouldn't it have been embarassing to both her and the people arould her?Originally posted by lwflee:Your notions of what constitutes 'good values' might be very different to that of others. Case in point, i think you are a presumtuous, whining person, often given to bouts of self-pity.
I agree with you on one point: There is surely something wrong with the system. This is esp so when someone *expects* a complete stranger to act positively in their interests, even when that person has not asked the stranger to so act, and when that person actually seeks to censure the stranger for not so acting.
Look, isn't there an IMPLICIT OBLIGATION for people to help others who are less able to help themselves? If someone was being robbed in broad daylight in view of everyone, would you go forward to help IMMEDIATELY, or would you just stand around and see if other people goes to the person's aid?
Question is why isn't this IMPLICIT OBLIGATION exercised, in the case of this woman? Where is the magnanimity? Is it gone? If it is gone, it is sad isn't it?
So I do not think that the woman was wrong in "expecting" some help. Why shouldn't she expect magnanimity from a complete stranger? Sure there are some limits to this magnanimity (like not giving money to all beggars you meet on the street), but surely giving up a seat is not too much?
Did the woman get the seat in the end? She did not. Expectations came to nothing in this case. -
ok good point. i never thought of it that way. i guess if i were the lady with the kids, i also wun ask for the seat. i will be grumbling about those ungrateful maggots of society also.. but i prob wun announce it to the world..Originally posted by Kenashi:if it was u in the situation, would u ask someone to give up their seat to u???
think about it b4 u answer.
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I do not think it is a very easy thing for a woman to carry a child (however light or heavy the child is) with her hands. Which parent with a child wouldn't want a seat? Especially on a bus that moves and jerks all the time? Is it actually safe for the child to be in her arms while she stands?Originally posted by casshern:agreed, and she actually feels she has the title of entitlement simply because she's carrying a 18 month old child. no doubt it's not easy, so if she cannot take it, just open her mouth to ask. is her child so heavy that she can't use any energy to ask?
she don't ask, people don't give up their seats, then why should she write in to a public national forum to criticize our national university students? the students probably feel that she looks strong and tough enough and carry her child.
If she felt she was entitled to a seat, she would have just asked for it - but she didn't right? so she did not feel that she had automatic right to a seat - so she didn't ask.
In any case, in any bus there are green seats (for SBS transit) or specified seats with signs saying " please give you seat to someone who needs it more".
What kind of screwed mentality is that? Why should a kind and gracious gesture be frowned upon by people? What or who is the person who gives up the seat trying to impress? So what if you are rejected? If there are indeed such people who would react like what is described, I can only feel a sense of sadness for such people.Originally posted by casshern:and in singapore, when u stand to give a seat, people ard you will actually give you the "Don't Try To Impress" kind of look. and when the person you had offered rejects you , the "Haha!" kind of look is reflected on fellow passengers -
i guess it's a vicious cycle. it is precisely cos there is a lack of such gracious acts in singapore, that when a genuinely nice person gives up his seat, people are shocked, or even stare in unbelief that society still has this kinda people. they may distort it into "this person just wants to appear good" so that they can subconsciously "tell" themselves its alright if they themselves dont give up seats.
and so these genuinely nice peole don't give up seats anymore. and then all the more people are shocked when they see another gracious act. and so the circle goes....
wad one should ask is, how can we break this circle? -
Just be nice and thick-skinned about it.Damn the losers who stare at you.Originally posted by starblue:i guess it's a vicious cycle. it is precisely cos there is a lack of such gracious acts in singapore, that when a genuinely nice person gives up his seat, people are shocked, or even stare in unbelief that society still has this kinda people. they may distort it into "this person just wants to appear good" so that they can subconsciously "tell" themselves its alright if they themselves dont give up seats.
and so these genuinely nice peole don't give up seats anymore. and then all the more people are shocked when they see another gracious act. and so the circle goes....
wad one should ask is, how can we break this circle? -
that's right, even if you gave up your seat, she accepts it. but your fellow passengers would simply give you the who u wanna impress kind of look!Originally posted by starblue:i guess it's a vicious cycle. it is precisely cos there is a lack of such gracious acts in singapore, that when a genuinely nice person gives up his seat, people are shocked, or even stare in unbelief that society still has this kinda people. they may distort it into "this person just wants to appear good" so that they can subconsciously "tell" themselves its alright if they themselves dont give up seats.
and so these genuinely nice peole don't give up seats anymore. and then all the more people are shocked when they see another gracious act. and so the circle goes....
wad one should ask is, how can we break this circle?
if i got rejected i can feel the red hot stares going thru the back of my brain making a hole! and when you alight they would stare real hard at you and start mumbling/whispering among themselves.
once bitten twice shy. actually more den once. so much so that i rather not go thru that kind of embarssment anymore. thanks for calling me a gracious singaporean, but let's change the society view first -
oh yes oh yes. she keep quiet on the bus. and first thing she got home she wrote a letter to the public forum flaming uni studentOriginally posted by loudmonkey:On the bus, the woman did not get her seat right? She kept quiet, did she not? So she did not demand any courtesy orally. She "expected" courtesy in her mind - but who could tell? Is it even relevant that she "expected" or "demanded" courtesy? I doubt so.
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i had never been snubbing before, always rejected/accepted with a friendly smile and thank you. but there's more to that with your fellow passengers.Originally posted by loudmonkey:I mean, so what if you have been snubbed before, without a word of thanks from the person who took the seat? You want something in return for the good deed? Is this becoming more like a moral transaction?
lets wake up to reality and stop living in the fairy tale utopia world.
singaporeans had yet to accept such public display of graciousness. -
it's not frowned upon. its a negative stares/feelings you get from others.Originally posted by loudmonkey:What kind of screwed mentality is that? Why should a kind and gracious gesture be frowned upon by people? What or who is the person who gives up the seat trying to impress? So what if you are rejected? If there are indeed such people who would react like what is described, I can only feel a sense of sadness for such people.
the next time you give up your seat, do open up and feel the environment around you insteading of drowning in your joy [/u] -
let's take a real recent example, i once saw a lady in pain sitting by a carpark with her bf. so i went up to them ask them if they need help and if i need to send her to the hospital immediately (i was driving that night) i offered my help went out of my way and i got this what-you-trying-to-do-look from the bf and the lady did not even raise her head to look me in my eye.Originally posted by loudmonkey:Look, isn't there an IMPLICIT OBLIGATION for people to help others who are less able to help themselves? If someone was being robbed in broad daylight in view of everyone, would you go forward to help IMMEDIATELY, or would you just stand around and see if other people goes to the person's aid?
i went to help immediately while others just walk past pretending they are invisible. and first class treatment i got.
i would always help others if i could, but apparently in singaporean the reactions towards your helpfulness is not always positive.
and who to blame? -
And why shouldn't she write to the press? She thinks there is a problem with young people - and she's just bringing it up in the papers. What's wrong with that?Originally posted by casshern:oh yes oh yes. she keep quiet on the bus. and first thing she got home she wrote a letter to the public forum flaming uni student -
Your last sentence I can somewhat agree, but don't you think that the good gesture is more important, as compared to what others think?Originally posted by casshern:i had never been snubbing before, always rejected/accepted with a friendly smile and thank you. but there's more to that with your fellow passengers.
lets wake up to reality and stop living in the fairy tale utopia world.
singaporeans had yet to accept such public display of graciousness. -
I have to ask - why do you care what other people think of you? Why be so self-conscious of yourself? It's not as if the people know you, or will spread tales about you or wat.Originally posted by casshern:it's not frowned upon. its a negative stares/feelings you get from others.
the next time you give up your seat, do open up and feel the environment around you insteading of drowning in your joy [/u]
I don't think getting negative stares from getting rejected or getting accepted should deter anyone from offering a kind gesture. -
If you are rejected, and the person you approached think you are kay poh, then just leave them alone lah. At least you offered some help, that's good enough.Originally posted by casshern:let's take a real recent example, i once saw a lady in pain sitting by a carpark with her bf. so i went up to them ask them if they need help and if i need to send her to the hospital immediately (i was driving that night) i offered my help went out of my way and i got this what-you-trying-to-do-look from the bf and the lady did not even raise her head to look me in my eye.
i went to help immediately while others just walk past pretending they are invisible. and first class treatment i got.
i would always help others if i could, but apparently in singaporean the reactions towards your helpfulness is not always positive.
and who to blame?
From your last sentence, I somewhat agree, but I feel a person offering help to another should not be dependent on whether the person will receive a positive reaction or not after everything. Why should this be the basis on whether people should help others? -
Singaporeans are just so cynical of each other - myself included.Originally posted by starblue:i guess it's a vicious cycle. it is precisely cos there is a lack of such gracious acts in singapore, that when a genuinely nice person gives up his seat, people are shocked, or even stare in unbelief that society still has this kinda people. they may distort it into "this person just wants to appear good" so that they can subconsciously "tell" themselves its alright if they themselves dont give up seats.
and so these genuinely nice peole don't give up seats anymore. and then all the more people are shocked when they see another gracious act. and so the circle goes....
wad one should ask is, how can we break this circle?
As long as people are always wanting to progress, work hard and be successful, this cynicism will not go away anytime soon.
It is just a kind of psyche that evolved since Singapore became independent.
No wonder people want to migrate. Haiz..... -
ya lorOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Just be nice and thick-skinned about it.Damn the losers who stare at you.
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I expected at least one of them to offer us a seat, as I was carrying my child in one arm and holding on to the bus pole with the other, but none of them bothered to do so.
They did not have any heavy things on them, so they could have offered a seat.
But they just stared at me and my son.
It's sad to see that none of these young people - who are supposed to be part of Singapore's elite - showed any desire to help others in need.
I believe many have missed out the important meaning of her stand....
1] "They just stared at me and my son."
2] " Showed any desire to help others in need."
>> They know this lady jolly well needs the seat. Whether they're uni. student or not, it doesn't really matter, ah bengs & ah lians whom i've seen, also gave up their seats for elderly or pregnant ladies and those who're in need. Which idiot dunno dunno that this lady carrying a child needs a seat? Is it going to be that when this lady will to fall down n injured herself or her kid, then will ppl offer their seats to her, showing concerns?? That's going to be bullsh!t. MRTs & Buses which i believe do have those tags showing "Giving up seats to those who're in need". Now, what's the meaning of "in need?"
From my point of views, i believe and i do truly believe that those two guys are chee hongs..trying to "sian" or talk to the girl (fren).. -
Here if see got handicapped and old women come in, people will automatically get up and let them sit de...
One more thing is, handicapped people are treated so much more better here... -
lotsa experience to share and think about.
quite sad how singaporeans still act in an indifferent manner despite behind a world class country etc etc
rmb the Singapore country club incident? disturbing. and now, the students referred to are really Uni students.
top echaleon people behaving selffishly. what happens when they have to take part in decision making for the country?
would they do it for the greater good? or would they do it for themselves?
nevertheless, from here we can see there at least there's a few bright spots in the darkness -
no choice, rat race. stressful life. no freedom. no breathing air space. pay for almost every single thing. and unappreciative selfish peopleOriginally posted by loudmonkey:No wonder people want to migrate. Haiz.....
haiz....