run-in
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does new vans have run-in?
company getting new vans n i'm one of the lucky ones getting the van so dunno if can whack anot leh... -
rammed la. dun think anione can confirm the reason y have to run-in in new cars.
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i dun know why ppl like to say new car or new bike need to run-in.
if the manufacturer did not do a QC and QA and let the machine into the market, is it safe? (i am just talking about the engine since we are on the topic run-in)
think about it, after assembly, did not test the engine and sell it in the market, who can make sure that it will sure perform? i am sure they will run the engine for a numbers of hours maybe days to be sure it not leaking, can withstand the heat etc. the coy repution is on the line here.
to me, run-in only when you have overhaul you engine where the pistons are new and had never run at all.
if this sound odd... pls do your run-in for 10000km, speed not over 50km/h, do not ram over 2800rpm.
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All machinies inclusive of motorcars will need a period of run in for it to work to it's optimum. Quality control is no longer 100 percent, in most industries, therefore it is best to do what that is recommended on the instruction manual.
Cheers -
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
long post.. dunno thru anot. -
I guess you are still schooling? The very hard disk that you are using now would only have been tested for a few mintues. So how they garantee its usage for 1-3 years? Only a sample size is selected for life test and this samples are never release into the market. (I don't know about back doors lah). Anyway, running in is for engine to smooth out its parts. Special grooves are designed for that purpose.Originally posted by Joshua1975:i dun know why ppl like to say new car or new bike need to run-in.
if the manufacturer did not do a QC and QA and let the machine into the market, is it safe? (i am just talking about the engine since we are on the topic run-in)
think about it, after assembly, did not test the engine and sell it in the market, who can make sure that it will sure perform? i am sure they will run the engine for a numbers of hours maybe days to be sure it not leaking, can withstand the heat etc. the coy repution is on the line here.
to me, run-in only when you have overhaul you engine where the pistons are new and had never run at all.
if this sound odd... pls do your run-in for 10000km, speed not over 50km/h, do not ram over 2800rpm.
May I know on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that run-in isn't necessary? Anyway the recommended speed is 80km/h. -
reply like these still make some sane. to make it optimum, no 100% check etc.Originally posted by Praetorian111:All machinies inclusive of motorcars will need a period of run in for it to work to it's optimum. Quality control is no longer 100 percent, in most industries, therefore it is best to do what that is recommended on the instruction manual.
Cheers
and please, wbucket; use something more relevant. using a hard disk compare to an engine use on car? if you use airplane than i'll just shutup.Originally posted by wbucket:I guess you are still schooling? The very hard disk that you are using now would only have been tested for a few mintues. So how they garantee its usage for 1-3 years? Only a sample size is selected for life test and this samples are never release into the market. (I don't know about back doors lah). Anyway, running in is for engine to smooth out its parts. Special grooves are designed for that purpose.
May I know on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that run-in isn't necessary? Anyway the recommended speed is 80km/h.
you are using hard disk which you will be using it on the table top or best on your lap using a lap top to a machine that run on the road? the most the hard disk burn out. level of safety at where now?
hey who still schooling now?
btw, anyone know how your new car get to you after it was ship into Singapore? 2 ways b4 you get your hand on it.
1. most ppl would have seem it that it's a trailer load up to a number of cars say 7 to 9 and maybe 10 on it and send to the dealer b4 you get it from them.
2. temp drivers are employ to drive the the car from the port (PSA Jurong/Tuas) back to the dealer. how you think the driver will drive on these new car? they ram it. those who use AYE often will get to see them once a while. -
That hard disk analogy is to show that in Manufacturing line, all products are tested to be operating in its pre-determine specification and within safety limits. But most tests allowed on each finished good is only kept to the minimum to push the goods out to the market as soon as possible. (This part is to raise aware-ness in you so call QA & QC, they can only do so much.)Originally posted by Joshua1975: you are using hard disk which you will be using it on the table top or best on your lap using a lap top to a machine that run on the road? the most the hard disk burn out. level of safety at where now?
hey who still schooling now?
btw, anyone know how your new car get to you after it was ship into Singapore? 2 ways b4 you get your hand on it.
1. most ppl would have seem it that it's a trailer load up to a number of cars say 7 to 9 and maybe 10 on it and send to the dealer b4 you get it from them.
2. temp drivers are employ to drive the the car from the port (PSA Jurong/Tuas) back to the dealer. how you think the driver will drive on these new car? they ram it. those who use AYE often will get to see them once a while.
So you read up on "Break-in Secrets" given above. If not, I will hyperlink for you. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Read up on this acticle and you will know the real reason for running in the engine. Run-in is more toward making your car season so that it would produce a smoother ride in the future.
Once again, may I know on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that run-in isn't necessary?
I asked that schooling part because during schooling time, that is when all those myth of quality control are told to us and we just believe them. After working in the production, your understanding about quality changes. After you work in a restaurant as a cook, the food will never taste the same. -
okie...
i know run-in is to smoothen out the slightly rough edges of the engine and to remove the grease that the manufacturer coated on when they manufacture the vehicle. well, so for van, how long shld be the run in be? -
Sorry to use your thread for a little tougue-fighting.Originally posted by kentheman:okie...
i know run-in is to smoothen out the slightly rough edges of the engine and to remove the grease that the manufacturer coated on when they manufacture the vehicle. well, so for van, how long shld be the run in be?
Anyway, the manual that come with the van should have some recommendation. Did your company keep all the manuals away? -
the van hasn't arrive yet..coming this week. they are sent for painting 1st. tink have to ask my supervisor if i can have the manual anot lo...if not, stick to the traditional method: dun go over 3000rpm n 80km/h for the 1st 5000kmOriginally posted by wbucket:Sorry to use your thread for a little tougue-fighting.
Anyway, the manual that come with the van should have some recommendation. Did your company keep all the manuals away? -
as in french kiss? EWWWW.Originally posted by wbucket:Sorry to use your thread for a little tougue-fighting.
dunno bout the rest, but 4 me, i lurve my car too much to have the heart to "ram" it on our first date. car to me like my girlfriend. muz get to know her temper, her likes and dislikes, make her feel comfortable, before u try more daring stuff......
of course, after dat muz be responsible and maintain her lah 
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Some said you have to rev hard in order for the run-in to be completed. For me I did the normal run-in for the 1st 1000km. Limit 80km/h, and 3000rpm. Then I would push a little higher to 4000rpm. 5000rpm once a while. Read the link given above, he states the down-side of an easy break-in. But it is also possible that he is talking about performance car.Originally posted by tailslide:as in french kiss? EWWWW.
dunno bout the rest, but 4 me, i lurve my car too much to have the heart to "ram" it on our first date. car to me like my girlfriend. muz get to know her temper, her likes and dislikes, make her feel comfortable, before u try more daring stuff...... of course, after dat muz be responsible and maintain her lah -
on one side say safety limits, on the other say push the goods out to the market as soon as possible. this work for your hard disk but not for car or bike. do you know how serious it can be if half way on the road and the piston jam. from the run-in speed you give at 80km/h. car or worst a motor bike, piston jam. good luck to the rider. you are talking about safety without knowing what is saftey all about?Originally posted by wbucket:That hard disk analogy is to show that in Manufacturing line, all products are tested to be operating in its pre-determine specification and within safety limits. But most tests allowed on each finished good is only kept to the minimum to push the goods out to the market as soon as possible. (This part is to raise aware-ness in you so call QA & QC, they can only do so much.)
So you read up on "Break-in Secrets" given above. If not, I will hyperlink for you. http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Read up on this acticle and you will know the real reason for running in the engine. Run-in is more toward making your car season so that it would produce a smoother ride in the future.
Once again, may I know on what basis did you arrive at the conclusion that run-in isn't necessary?
I asked that schooling part because during schooling time, that is when all those myth of quality control are told to us and we just believe them. After working in the production, your understanding about quality changes. After you work in a restaurant as a cook, the food will never taste the same.
who can define what and how is smoother ride?
oni the driver who drive the car can. run-in do not have a set rules of how fast and how many ram you need. it is to let the engine get used to your driving habit.
the most important thing is your 1st servicing ~ oil change. one more to add, in Singapore, we are not going to drive the car till we die and pass it on to our son.
if anyone feel the need of run-in in order for a smoother ride can carry on. i did not stop anyone here. do the run-in, dun go above 50km/h, dun ram above 2800rpm. and make sure you run-in 10000km.
I have never done any run-in for my new bike/s and new car/s at all. The oni one time i had done run-in is after i overhaul my bike and it was run-in in the workshop. -
PM from wbucket.
wbucket
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15 March 2005 · 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wbucket
Hi I am taking this argument off the thread cause I don't feel that it is benefitial to the thread-starter.
I am an engineer. My friends are engineers too. We worked in many field, although none have been in automotive industry, (Singapore don't have, for guads at least.) I do have a friend who worked in aero-space. All industry is similar. If you have friends involved with production of automotive, please share his experiences. Assumption is a dangerous tool.
As for the set of rule, I don't know about other model, but I have a friend who drive a Vios. You should know Vios club is about the biggest club in Singapore. There are members who researched and came-up with a set of guideline to run-in Vios. Maybe you can check it out. very detail one.
Don't know about bikes, cause never research on them.
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it my practice to post all PM to me for dun know what reason.
don't feel that it is benefitial to the thread-starter if a point is made it sure does is benefitial to the thread-starter.
i dun have friends involved with production of automotive at all and i myself had mention i never do any run in for my new car/s or even new bike/s.
one more point, please read the link you gave me, it on bike and it call break-in and not run in. -
Below was taken from the link given which i did not go and read till just now and above from the last few reply i did, i mention the most important thing is your 1st servicing ~ oil change...Originally posted by Joshua1975:on one side say safety limits, on the other say push the goods out to the market as soon as possible. this work for your hard disk but not for car or bike. do you know how serious it can be if half way on the road and the piston jam. from the run-in speed you give at 80km/h. car or worst a motor bike, piston jam. good luck to the rider. you are talking about safety without knowing what is saftey all about?
who can define what and how is smoother ride?
oni the driver who drive the car can. run-in do not have a set rules of how fast and how many ram you need. it is to let the engine get used to your driving habit.
the most important thing is your 1st servicing ~ oil change. one more to add, in Singapore, we are not going to drive the car till we die and pass it on to our son.
if anyone feel the need of run-in in order for a smoother ride can carry on. i did not stop anyone here. do the run-in, dun go above 50km/h, dun ram above 2800rpm. and make sure you run-in 10000km.
I have never done any run-in for my new bike/s and new car/s at all. The oni one time i had done run-in is after i overhaul my bike and it was run-in in the workshop.
what i did in fact, the 1st oil change after 1000km, I still be using the mineral base oil rather than the Fully SYNTHETIC oil. Go for another 3000km than change to your semi or fully SYTHETIC oil. for me i used semi as full sythetic is a waste of $$$, we dun face low tempreture as in 10 and blow.
Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles. Most of the wearing in process happens immediately, creating a lot of metal in the oil. Plus, the amount of leftover machining chips and other crud left behind in the manufacturing process is simply amazing !! You want to flush that stuff out before it gets recycled and embedded in the transmission gears, and oil pump etc...
Why do the manufacturers recommend waiting until 600 miles to
flush out all the loose metal ???
This is a good question ...
3 more words on break- in:
NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!
Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least
2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving.
After that use your favorite brand of oil. -
just to make clear, your van running in petrol or diesel engine?Originally posted by kentheman:does new vans have run-in?
company getting new vans n i'm one of the lucky ones getting the van so dunno if can whack anot leh... -
another PM from wbucket.
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wbucket
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15 March 2005 · 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wbucket
quote:Originally posted by Joshua1975:
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one more point, please read the link you gave me, it on bike and it call break-in and not run in.
Isn't it just 2 words pointing to the same things? And that web is provided by another poster, and it also states that it is for car engine too.
Unless I have mistaken these 2 words to be the same, I still think there is a need to run-in/break-in your engine. I have an issue of "Torque" magzine that advises on the run-in practice, if you want I can scan it and email to you.
I still think this is not benefitial to the thread-starter. Didn't you notice it seem like only the 2 of us is arguing now?
If you are sore because I said that you are schooling, then I apologise. I didn't mean it as an insult. But seriously, those QA QC stuff is really not that reliable. Have you heard of a passenger plane flying, when the mechanic lose 1 of his tools. I think you should have heard stories about a whole factory shut down because 1 screwdriver is not accounted for. So flying when that mechanic couldn't find his tool is a very serious thing whereby safety is very important. Any, it was found after the plane landed, in a place where a serious banking of the plane could move that tool to a position that could cause some serious damage.
Have you been in a production line before? You know how tiring it is to repeat a certain step in the production for 6 hours with a 5mins break in between? QA and QC only ensure that inspection is carried out, and checks are done periodically. Of course thing like jamming piston isn't going to happen, engine with slight deflects that compromises engine efficiency could still leak out into the market.
2 different point here. 1 is the un-reliable QA and QC. The other is the need to Run-in/Break-in. Both points are not related, cause run-in/break-in isn't to counter the deflects from production. -
dear reader,
you may do your run in or break in in whatever way you like as the car or bike will be for daily normal road use in Singapore and not on race track. what power or smooth ride is what you do to you car as i dun get to drive yours neither do you drive my.
from all the reply i gave was from my own experience and i did not say carry out the run in method given by the manufature was wrong either.
if you had a point to share or to add please do so openly. Please dun PM to make a point. it not sharing at all and oni make you look funny.
my point is simple, if it not safe, you will not see the car on the road at all. as for run in or break in, i had mention above and again here
what power or smooth ride is what you do to your car as i dun get to drive yours neither do you get drive my. -
my point is simple, if it not safe, you will not see the car on the road at all. as for run in or break in, i had mention above and again here
i agree with you when you say that cars that aren't safe wouldn't have been allowed on the roads in the first place.
however, the primary purpose of running in/breaking in your engine is to help prolong your engine life and improve its fuel economy; it is not an issue of safety.
as for your contention that cars are not kept for enough years to warrant such caution, i would disagree. While an engine that has not been properly broken in may not suffer catastrophic failure within say, 5 years of its purchase, it will, in general, not run as smoothly or as economically as an engine that has been properly managed as per the manufacturer's recommendations.
also, run-in/break-in periods pertain to more than your vehicle's engine. Other important components that need to be broken in are your brakes, tires as well as your clutch. more often than not, the optimum wear patterns need to be formed before these components can operate properly. case in point, brake pads need to be bedded in before they can provide you with optimum stopping power and tires need to be seasoned before they provide optimum grip.
that is not to say that the car is not road-worthy before it has been broken in, it is; but it certainly won't perform as advertised by the manufacturer until broken in.
i am glad that till this day, you are none the worse for not having run-in your vehicle, but my personal advice to the thread starter is to err on the side of caution and run-in the vehicle. -
thank you zulu4 on the points in blue, more so for the brakes and tires, anyone saw F1 race b4 will notice that all the dirver will sway the car left and right during warm up round, reason one is to heat up the tires and two is to wear off any/all coating that is on the NEW tires.Originally posted by zulu4:i agree with you when you say that cars that aren't safe wouldn't have been allowed on the roads in the first place.
however, the primary purpose of running in/breaking in your engine is to help prolong your engine life and improve its fuel economy; it is not an issue of safety.
as for your contention that cars are not kept for enough years to warrant such caution, i would disagree. While an engine that has not been properly broken in may not suffer catastrophic failure within say, 5 years of its purchase, it will, in general, not run as smoothly or as economically as an engine that has been properly managed as per the manufacturer's recommendations.
also, run-in/break-in periods pertain to more than your vehicle's engine. Other important components that need to be broken in are your brakes, tires as well as your clutch. more often than not, the optimum wear patterns need to be formed before these components can operate properly. case in point, brake pads need to be bedded in before they can provide you with optimum stopping power and tires need to be seasoned before they provide optimum grip.
that is not to say that the car is not road-worthy before it has been broken in, it is; but it certainly won't perform as advertised by the manufacturer until broken in.
i am glad that till this day, you are none the worse for not having run-in your vehicle, but my personal advice to the thread starter is to err on the side of caution and run-in the vehicle.
let's recap, i did say...
i totally agreed to your point on run-in/break-in periods pertain to more than your vehicle's engine... but as to it is not an issue of safety?Originally posted by Joshua1975:... ...
if the manufacturer did not do a QC and QA and let the machine into the market, is it safe? (i am just talking about the engine since we are on the topic run-in)
... ...
to me, run-in only when you have overhaul you engine where the pistons are new and had never run at all.
last on the engine that has not been properly broken in may not suffer catastrophic failure within say, 5 years of its purchase, it will, in general, not run as smoothly or as economically as an engine that has been properly managed as per the manufacturer's recommendations.Originally posted by Joshua1975:... ... do you know how serious it can be if half way on the road and the piston jam. from the run-in speed you give at 80km/h. car or worst a motor bike, piston jam. good luck to the rider... ...
the most important thing is your 1st servicing ~ oil change. one more to add, in Singapore, we are not going to drive the car till we die and pass it on to our son.
for this point to be valid, there are other factors to be factor in such as type of oil used, the frequency of servicing etc, etc...
Just like the reasons you give on run-in/break in when you mention other important components that need to be broken in as well...
again i am not saying run in is wrong or anything else to it but because cars in Singapore will not be on the road for a long time and even it does, you will have done at least 1 overhaul and that will be the only time where you really need to do a run in as it is a NEW engine.
one again, it your car and you drive it, you decide. for the topic starter, he is driving a coy van, he sure will have to do a run in as the speed limit for van now is still 60km/h. it good to know how from what other practice.
last, from the link given it say break in and from what i am doing to my past new car/s and bike/s, looks like i am doing a break in than to a run in that most ppl do in here.
have a nice night/day. -
while im not taking sides in this argument, i would like to state from a racing point of view that it can be very misleading to take proceedures carried out on racing cars and compare or use them in the context of road going vehicles. The main reason being that the emphasis on road-going cars and on racing cars is different. Racing car's ultimately focus on performance while road-going cars focus on longevity. As famed Lotus man Colin Chapman once said, the perfect racing car(back in an era where there was no 2-race engine rule) is the one which falls apart after crossing the finishing line.
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... because cars in Singapore will not be on the road for a long time and even it does, you will have done at least 1 overhaul
eh, not to belabour the point, but have you considered the fact that a vehicle that has been run-in may not require an overhaul within its lifespan? -
Originally posted by zulu4:eh, not to belabour the point, but have you considered the fact that a vehicle that has been run-in may not require an overhaul within its lifespan? none had happened to mine.
the oni one that happen on one of my bike is due to cooling pump and it has nothing to do with run in or not. it is say to be the manufacture design fault and partly the weather here. made some tiny changes, over haul, run in in workshop and walar... -
Well ... just to add my two cents worth ...
It is up to individual ..
To play safe and if you are not keeping the car for more than 4 /5 years .. perhap you can dont care ...
But if you just want to have more efficient and longer llifespan .. perhaps it is always good to do run-in.
Same goes for bikes ... I do run-in for bike too ...