$90k - $95k budget - What to buy?
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Hi all,
I'm currently working overseas and will return to Singapore in mid-December. When I return, I intend to spend about $90k to $95k to buy a car but I'm undecided over whether to get a new car (given the relatively low COE at the moment), or buy a 2nd hand car. My considerations are as follows: (1) I'll probably only be in Singapore for 2-3 years on rotation before I have to leave (hence will have to sell off the car after 3 years max), (2) I have a small family so I'll need at least a fairly large saloon car if not a SUV. I have baby-related paraphernalia like a stroller to fit in the car, together with a set of golf clubs, (3) I am averse to MPVs (even though they would probably be the most practical), (4) Depreciation is of course a concern, though I intend to pay cash for the car, and that might help as I won't have to worry about having to pay off the interest on a loan.
Currently, I'm thinking of either getting a new Nissan Cefiro 230, or perhaps a 2nd hand Toyota Harrier 2.4 (though I wish they would just leave Toyota badge on rather than pretend that it's a Lexus when it's not. But that's another story...). Are there other options anyone else might wish to suggest? Is the Toyota Fortuner any good (I can stretch my budget to $100k if absolutely necessary)?
Honestly, I have rather limited knowledge of how to go abouts buying a car in Singapore (as the cars I have owned were all bought when I was overseas) so I would appreciate any advice any one might have. Essentially, if you were in my position, what would you do? Thanks! -
Hi,
I'm afraid no one will be able to provide accurate information at this point, since December is still two months (or at least 4 COE biddings) away. What's $90k now may not be so by that time....depending on your luck.
The fact is that (and this shows my disappointment in the system) the car market here has become a big casino.....where you don't know your buying price till you actually buy it.....and you don't know your selling price till you actually sell it. In this nationwide casino, the house wins every round
Generally though.....cars here depreciate most in the first few years of their legal lifespan. They depreciate least in the last 2-3 years of the same 10-year lifespan.
There are many good catches now in the used car market (especially those which are 1-2 years old), mainly because the first owner has taken the bulk of the depreciation. Then again, buying used always carries some risk. Plus you may need to factor in the cost of psychiatric treatments after dealing with some of the used car dealers (not all, there are some honest and reliable ones as well).
Sorry to show you a deadend, but the best advice I can give is to come back, then consider again using the data available at that time.... -
One point that I forgot to add. I'll be back in Singapore next week for a short break and if I'm getting a new car, I'd probably place my order then (for the dealer to deliver in December if possible). I would not want to wait till I return in mid-December before shopping for the car as I prefer the car to be waiting for me rather than go through the Christmas holidays without the use of my own vehicle.
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Cefiro 230JM GOOD Choice , very comforty and spacious for family, nice relax drive. FC slightly high, but guess shouldn't be a big concern for you. Plus, now come with GPS, so can help you along with the new roads and estates.Originally posted by polityka:Hi all,
Currently, I'm thinking of either getting a new Nissan Cefiro 230, or perhaps a 2nd hand Toyota Harrier 2.4 (though I wish they would just leave Toyota badge on rather than pretend that it's a Lexus when it's not. But that's another story...). Are there other options anyone else might wish to suggest? Is the Toyota Fortuner any good (I can stretch my budget to $100k if absolutely necessary)?
A friend just sold her harrier. Quality not very good even though from Japan. Guess the PIs cut some corners, and I would be worried about warranty too.
Fortuner ...... unless you really need the seven seats .... bouncy ride, high FC, and actually need to CLIMB up the car. If you want to stretch, go for the Nissan Mrano instead. Good looking, sporty with car-like comfort. -
Ahhhh.....next week is only a week away, so we can start discussing again.
From what I understand.....
(1) You're more inclined towards SUVs or large sedans.
(2) Depreciation over 3 years is a concern.
(3) You're a golfer.
Its really hard for me to advice on which model to get - its a very subjective matter. And I suspect if 10 people answered this question, you would get suggestions for 10 different models....well, you would understand. However, the models you have pointed out (Fortuner, Harrier, Cefiro) are all from reputable marques and as far as I know, are comfortable and realiable.
However, if you intend to play golf across the border, Toyotas are not the wisest choice. Harriers (or the RX300s, be they fake or real), RAV4s and other Toyotas are known to be hot targets for thefts and hijacks - so much so that many Malaysian insurance companies will not even insure them (NTUC Singapore has even given out letters telling owners of these vehicles not to cross the border). Sure, you can arm them with immobilisers, etc etc....but then again they can always wait with knives till you come back to collect your car. Yes, you can wear armour and train yourself to scan the area each time you park, etc.....but I'm not sure if thats the kinda life you want.
As far as car choice is concerned, I'd better leave it there because its really a very subjective thing.....
Lets move on to the depreciation part. As written earlier, depreciation is heaviest in the first few years of car ownership (for new cars). As an example, my car was $106k brand new two years ago.....its valued at $65k in the used-car market now (which means if I sell it to a used-car dealer, I would have to sell it even cheaper than $65k).
Of course, this deep decline is helped by falling COEs (it was $30+k two years ago). Whether the situation will be the same if you buy new now is hard to say (due to the casino effect).
If you know cars, are willing to take the risk, perhaps you can examine used cars. I'm not sure if you've seen these sites, but they may provide some useful information regarding finances and depreciation:
http://www.sgcarmart.com/
http://www.singaporecarsonline.com/
http://www.sgcarmart.com/articles/used_buying_guide.php
Be careful, because the transfer fee for used cars can be over $1k....plus this, plus that, etc. These sites are equally important for understanding and calculating depreciation:
http://www.sgcarmart.com/articles/parf_rebate.php
http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/onemotoring/en/motoring/information/left/buy___sell_a_used/Ownership_Transfer.html
Please remember to read all the fine print, whenever you see any. Small words can carry big meanings (eg. this sentence).
Regarding your question on what I'd do if I were in your shoes.....I'd get a used car (probably something 1-2 years old, not sure which model yet). I'm quite used to cars, so I think I can reasonably choose a good one - however, there is no such thing as 100% full-proof and it is still a risk.
Er.....Another thing you could do is:
(1) Buy a brand new Subaru Forester 2.5 XT. 2.5 = 2500 cc. X = crossover (toned down SUV), T = turbo. It should be only about $90k now.
(2) Since you have kid/s, don't drive too hard - safety first.
(3) After 3 years when you leave Singapore again, sell it to me at.....say.....er.....$50,000?
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how i wished i haf that budget like urs.
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Well, being a Singaporean, I would much rather buy a new car... So pardon my blurness when I ask how one would go about calculating the scrap value of a car? I guess the worst case scenario for me if I buy that new Cefiro would be that 2 or 3 years down the road, I might have to scrap it given that the 2nd market is so bad. That being the case, how much would I be able to scrap the car for (say 3 year old car) if I bought it at the current price (about $94500?)? Or would a 2nd hand dealer offer a little above scrap value for the car?
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also dunno if this guy is real or not. Maybe is boi86 reincarnation, taking on a more refined personality. I find it hard to see always got people say "I got this budget, what cars can I buy". Damn, unless the budget is small, then you can find it useful to ask fellows here to see if you have missed any models that might bring regret to you later on. But with a big budget like this, need to ask meh?
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LOL. Think you're seeing shadows. My problem is that (as mentioned in my earlier post) I am unfamiliar with the car market in Singapore (as the cars I have owned were all bought when I've been working overseas). Knowing how complicated (to the uninitiated) car ownership can be in Singapore, I thought I'd seek the advice of people who are perhaps wiser on such matters.
I've been reading the various links provided by Gentlerock and it appears that it would make much more sense for me to get a 2nd hand car. Just wondering if the 2nd hand dealers in Singapore would generally allow their cars to be sent to the AA for a pre-purchase inspection? If not, would I be better off buying direct from an owner (who may allow me to do that)?
BTW, what constitutes a "big budget" is relative. In any case, whether you're spending $50k, $100k or $200k on a car, surely you want to do your homework before you commit to the purchase right? Doesn't mean that just because you have more money to spend, you would do it more frivolously without careful thought and consideration. That would just be silly. -
Hi again!
Buying from the owner doesn't mean you'll get a better price/deal...unless, of course, you personally know and trust the owner. Owners will also check for what their cars are selling for in the market before deciding on a price. There is also the trouble of all the admin work (which is actually not that tough). Owners always sell "as is". Car dealers sometimes sell "with limited warranty". If you've noticed, not many owners sell directly anyway.
Whether the used car dealers will allow for 3rd party inspection varies from case to case, depending on the character of the salespeople and condition of the car, no doubt.
If they do allow 3rd party inspections, they would probably ask for a pre-agreement that if everything is OK, you have to buy the car. They basically check for emissions, illegal modifications, any signs of previous accidents, etc.
If I'm not mistaken, AA inspections are almost S$200 and takes a few hours (maybe worth it). However, there are some crucial parts of cars which cannot be inspected to great detail (eg. gearbox and engine block).
Take heed of my previous post where I mentioned to read the fine print carefully. There was a reported case where the buyer has been told to give a monetary deposit in order to bring the car out for inspection. Documents were signed, deposit was given, car was brought for inspection. After the inspection, he decided not to buy the car, but the used car dealer refused to return his deposit.
Upon careful inspection of the signed documents, the buyer discovered that he did agree to that (he didn't read the fine print). Buyer lost the case.
One very important thing you have to remember is that in the Singapore car industry, whether its brand new or used, whether is a private company or government......once you've paid any deposit, you probably won't get your money back in cash anymore. This is true even if the deal is called off, not by any fault of yours!
I remember that there was once when I was looking at used cars. I wanted to test drive it, but the sales guy told me to agree on a price first which I considered fair value....and if the test drive was fine, I will agree to buy it. My reply was direct - that I will not value a car which I've not test-driven, that a test-drive is no guarantee that I will buy. But if I didn't test-drive it, I know for sure I will never buy it. I was sincere about it and not just looking for a joyride - and I understood some of the used-car salesman's difficulties too, but I simply will not submit to high-pressured sales tactics (I'm in sales myself, by the way). Fortunately, it was a cordial (superficially) discussion.
To protect myself, I further insisted that all conditions should be written down on the invoice/receipt - in-house warranty, max. duration to completion of handing/taking over, etc etc.
In the end, I test-drove the vehicle, liked it and bought it. Happy ending.
Here are some articles which may interest you:
1. http://motoring.asiaone.com.sg/articles/O_20050310_002.html
2. http://motoring.asiaone.com.sg/articles/O_20050812_001.html
(Reading these, one may have the impression that car buyers are not a that well-protected bunch). -
Buy a Nissan 350Z roadster
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yeah!!my dream car dude...Originally posted by WiNtEr'SkiLL:Buy a Nissan 350Z roadster -
Unless you are suggesting that I strap my baby onto the hood (like a hood ornament), I don't think a 2-seater like the Nissan 350Z is the way to go. I did consider (briefly) the Mazda RX-8 but of course I'm sure you'll agree that all things considered, it's hardly a practical family car for my purposes...
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Oh! I noticed that someone had suggested the Nissan Murano. Well, I did go have a look at it (when I went to test drive the Cefiro) and to be honest, I wasn't terribly impressed. For me, it was not worth spending that extra $20k (more than the Cefiro). The equipment level was not much better (I'm sure I don't have to pay that much more for a similar Bose system for the Cefiro). I had high hopes for the car but in the end, I was pretty disappointed. As someone else had previously mentioned, the plastic front grille looks like something out of a Tamiya model kit. But all this is just my personal opinion.
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Hey seriously, why not Toyota WISH?
Cheap and good leh... for family...suitable also... -
duuude.. 150k lehzOriginally posted by ashtina82:yeah!!my dream car dude... -
last look was abt 74kOriginally posted by gasband:Hey seriously, why not Toyota WISH?
Cheap and good leh... for family...suitable also... -
Cefiro 230JM is a good choice. Looks more elegant than any Camry too!
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read thread starter's first paragraph... the words after " (3) "Originally posted by gasband:Hey seriously, why not Toyota WISH?
Cheap and good leh... for family...suitable also... -
honda odyssey, it pleased my mom, dad, my siblings, and me.
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95k should get u a stock WRX......
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I knew someone was going to say this.Originally posted by ceecookie:95k should get u a stock WRX...... -
hahaha...i know...dats y i call it my dream car...Originally posted by zgim80:duuude.. 150k lehz
i can only dream.... -
if ur a guy that can pay cash for a 90k car, yr decision is simple...go buy a new car now...any good brand car. with coes so cheap u r darn lucky...at 14k now how low can the coe go! anyway u can aford the depreciation so dont worry be happy
cheers! -
Hey I read lahOriginally posted by nOrmalbOi:read thread starter's first paragraph... the words after " (3) " But i was thinking and assumed the reason why he is averse to MPV maybe because it is too long and big? Therefore I tot Toyota Wish as compared to like Odyssey is not as long, at least to my eyes lah and its FC is good and cheap also for such a car....
Dun suspect my eyesight ok